UK's May says 'highly likely' Russia behind nerve attack on spy

[samran]

On 3/13/2018 at 8:37 AM, rudi49jr said:

Freddy Royle, where are you to say that the Russians has nothing to do with this?

You know taking his borders back is a busy job. You can't expect him to defend the Russians all the time.

[sambum]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

But this discussion is not about the journalistic integrity of RT, but whether the Russians are blind to the excesses of Putin.

 

Are you aware that Theresa May's husband's investment firm, which facilitates British oligarchs tranferring billions out of the UK and away from the tax man, has not paid a penny in corporation tax in 8 years? If you think that we are squeaky clean in the UK, then you are sadly mistaken.

When life is good for the general populace, then "excesses" will be accepted, as can be seen from RuamRudy's post above.

 

However, when, for instance in the UK, politician's exorbitant claims for expenses are overshadowed by penny pinching cut backs to Disability Benefits, or lack of funding for the NHS, or frozen pensions  or ........ etc etc etc, then the general populace will say "Hang on - you've got your share of the goodies - what about ours?"

Edited March 14, 2018 by sambum

[Thongkorn]

22 hours ago, buick said:

i can't believe this is an issue.  just forget about it and move on.  bigger problems to deal with.  there is no way that russian held assets in the UK will be seized as a result of this.  putin is laughing at this really hard.  and he should.

So it’s ok to laugh about foreign powers killing people on home soil with Military grade poisons. the British govenment don’t make statements like :Mrs May made with out good reason.

[juice777]

When my company first sent me to the Russian far east in around 2000, I was honestly stunned by what I saw. It was like the UK 20 or 30 years previously, but without the care and maintenance. In a city of 100,000 people, seemingly all the buildings were crumbling and the roads in bits, there were many houses still without running water or indoor toilets; every car was either an Uaz or a Lada, the people had a weather-worn, weary look upon their faces. Pensioners, who had worked their entire lives under the Soviet system in the expectation of a comfortable retirement would beg on street corners for a few coins. And that was things on the up. The 1990s were, by all accounts, hellish, brutal times. I knew one guy who left school in 1990 at the age of 13 to go and work down the mines because there was literally no money coming into his home.
 
BY the time I left in 2009, the contrast between my arrival and departure was vast. People were prosperous, modern buildings were appearing everywhere, there were only Japanese or Western cars on the streets and there was genuine optimistic about the future.
 
Like him or not, Putin turned around the chaos and brought stability and prosperity to the masses. For them, his excesses are ignored as long as their lot continues to improve.

"Like him or not, Putin turned around the chaos and brought stability and prosperity to the masses. For them, his excesses are ignored as long as their lot continues to improve."

Sounds like someone else in the 1930s

But imagine what there life's would be like if the oligarchs haven't nicked 30% of everything.

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[juice777]

But this discussion is not about the journalistic integrity of RT, but whether the Russians are blind to the excesses of Putin.
 
Are you aware that Theresa May's husband's investment firm, which facilitates British oligarchs tranferring billions out of the UK and away from the tax man, has not paid a penny in corporation tax in 8 years? If you think that we are squeaky clean in the UK, then you are sadly mistaken.

Wow when did I say we are squeaky clean what a strange thing to say.

I am not aware of May's Husband firm but we all know the conservative government government has many friends who are making lots of money in the City of London. Hence why a lot of people including me think probably not much will happen hardy the thoughts of someone who thinks there government is squeaky clean.

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[sambum]

4 minutes ago, juice777 said:

"Like him or not, Putin turned around the chaos and brought stability and prosperity to the masses. For them, his excesses are ignored as long as their lot continues to improve."

Sounds like someone else in the 1930s

But imagine what there life's would be like if the oligarchs haven't nicked 30% of everything.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
 

The point has been proved as far as I can see,  that for the Russians, life is better under Putin, so why complain when it could mean a return to the grim old days pre - Putin?

 

And I am sure that they don't really care too much about the oligarchs additional 30% when their lives have obviously improved dramatically from previous times - probably by more than 30% on the :"Satisfaction Factor"

 

  

[juice777]

When life is good for the general populace, then "excesses" will be accepted, as can be seen from RuamRudy's post above.

 

However, when, for instance in the UK, politician's exorbitant claims for expenses are overshadowed by penny pinching cut backs to Disability Benefits, or lack of funding for the NHS, or frozen pensions  or ........ etc etc etc, then the general populace will say "Hang on - you've got your share of the goodies - what about ours?"

And life is not good for all Russians some have nothing . Under soviet rule the richest Russian had no more then 5 or 6 times the poorest Russian wealth now ita 1000s of times that. But they are afraid to speak out.

 

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[sambum]

33 minutes ago, juice777 said:

And life is not good for all Russians some have nothing . Under soviet rule the richest Russian had no more then 5 or 6 times the poorest Russian wealth now ita 1000s of times that. But they are afraid to speak out.

 

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And the same applies to many countries all over the world - they have some very wealthy people, and some very poor ones. I remember being aghast a few years ago when I found out the wealth of some of Africa's leaders - while some of their their countrymen were literally starving to death, and had to depend on handouts from the rest of the world (Band Aid etc). And rumours that most of the money raised never got "down" to the poor people.

 

Thailand also has many poor people, and one only has to look at the rise to power of Thaksin to see that just building a few hospitals and schools out of your "accumulated"  wealth of billions can get you the undying love of "the people".Even now in exile he is, like it or not, still  regarded as a saviour to the poor Northern people of Thailand.

 

Similarly with Putsin,  for the most part  (I agree, not all) his countrymen have benefitted from his years in power, and people do not want to go back to the "bad old days".  I think that their logic is "if we can have a better life, then the people/person who gave us this better life is entitled to a better life too."

 

How much better it should be is open to debate, but to put it in context, as a UK citizen, I don't want to go back to the days of freezing my bum off in an outside toilet, and only having one coal fire to heat the whole house!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by sambum

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, juice777 said:

 

 

 

Wow when did I say we are squeaky clean what a strange thing to say.

I am not aware of May's Husband firm but we all know the conservative government government has many friends who are making lots of money in the City of London. Hence why a lot of people including me think probably not much will happen hardy the thoughts of someone who thinks there government is squeaky clean.

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So I go back to my very first point, which was that Russians, too, are not fools. They are very aware of how things work in their own country, and are not duped by some Wizard of Oz lurking in the Kremlin. For now, he gives them what they want and they are satisfied.

[buick]

1 hour ago, Thongkorn said:

So it’s ok to laugh about foreign powers killing people on home soil with Military grade poisons. the British govenment don’t make statements like :Mrs May made with out good reason.

i find it totally reasonable for a country to authorize the murder of one it's agents that has switched sides.  the amazing thing here is putin realized this agent was still an asset to him, no reason to kill him in a russian prison.  instead, putin traded him for russian agents.  then attempted to kill him (maybe he has died by now not sure).

 

mrs. may has absoutely no power over putin or russia.  so her demand that putin respond to the issue within a certain timeframe is laughable.    maybe she can convince the EU to stop buying oil and gas from russia !!! 

Edited March 14, 2018 by buick

[juice777]

So I go back to my very first point, which was that Russians, too, are not fools. They are very aware of how things work in their own country, and are not duped by some Wizard of Oz lurking in the Kremlin. For now, he gives them what they want and they are satisfied.

So if they don't need to be duped by the Wizard of oz why is he hiding behind the curtain?

 

Why bother if he don't have to manipulate them why kill the members of the other polictal party's and reporters if he has the full support of his people on merit alone.

 

They have been brain washed and I am starting to believe you might have been a little bit to.

 

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[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, juice777 said:

So if they don't need to be duped by the Wizard of oz why is he hiding behind the curtain?

 

Why bother if he don't have to manipulate them why kill the members of the other polictal party's and reporters if he has the full support of his people on merit alone.

 

They have been brain washed and I am starting to believe you might have been a little bit to.

 

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See sambum's explanations about why people accept illegal behaviour from their leaders when they perceive themselves to benefit from the status quo. If you do not accept his rationale, I guess there is no point continuing to thrash out the same points so we will just have to agree to disagree.

[juice777]

See sambum's explanations about why people accept illegal behaviour from their leaders when they perceive themselves to benefit from the status quo. If you do not accept his rationale, I guess there is no point continuing to thrash out the same points so we will just have to agree to disagree.

OK no worries

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[Grouse]

THIS THREAD HAS GONE ENTIRELY OFF TOPIC

[juice777]

She is basically just kicking out 23 Russians and A lot of talk. Wow what a pathetic response a little talk about freezing Russian money if there is evedince its used for something that puts us at risk, but that's about it and not sending anyone important to the World cup we look weak.

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[midas]

3 hours ago, juice777 said:

And life is not good for all Russians some have nothing . Under soviet rule the richest Russian had no more then 5 or 6 times the poorest Russian wealth now ita 1000s of times that. But they are afraid to speak out.

 

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And do you think this situation is unique to the Russian economy?

[CharlesSwann]

May is running too fast with this and should be careful not to act out of pique. It's really a non-issue (I speak as a Brit), but the media is whipping everyone into a frenzy as usual.

 

International espionage is not a noble and thrilling endeavour - it's shabby, and sordid and betrays only neurotic weakness. It's also divisive, as we can see. Everyone does it, but does spying ever achieve anything other than distrust? Now there's a real danger that Britain's overreaction could further destablise the world, and quite unnecessarily.

[Grouse]

I thought May's speech was surprisingly good; almost Thatcherite if not Churchillian

in it's strength. I think the balance is about right

 

Corbyn, by contrast was mealy mouthed and quite pathetic. Again he misreads his acolytes as being Trots instead of anti Con. This may ruin his chance at the crown he covets.

[CharlesSwann]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I thought May's speech was surprisingly good; almost Thatcherite if not Churchillian

in it's strength. I think the balance is about right

 

Corbyn, by contrast was mealy mouthed and quite pathetic. Again he misreads his acolytes as being Trots instead of anti Con. This may ruin his chance at the crown he covets.

I thought she sounded unfluent and tremulous. And why is a Churchillian speech appropriate on this issue? I'm afraid everyone's been suckered into thinking it's a big issue on accout of the media not letting it off the front page on account of the good-looking girl involved.

[Grouse]

15 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

I thought she sounded unfluent and tremulous. And why is a Churchillian speech appropriate on this issue? I'm afraid everyone's been suckered into thinking it's a big issue on accout of the media not letting it off the front page on account of the good-looking girl involved.

IMHO use of a military grade nerve agent in an offence on British territory IS a major issue and worthy of an appropriate response.

[tumama]

On 3/13/2018 at 12:44 PM, overherebc said:

Russian made agent, Ex spy who was Russian attacked.

Why would any other country be behind it.

Just a 'you can run but you can't hide message.'

 

To blame Russia for it. To further extend the sanctions against Russia, obviously. 

[tumama]

On 3/13/2018 at 12:43 PM, baboon said:

Maybe Russia is behind it, maybe it isn't. However the UK's hysterical reaction is what interests me - talk about making a drama out of a crisis. Somebody (or somebodies) isn't half capitalising on all this and it isn't Putin... 

 

Interesting as well they refuse to follow international agreed protocols regarding this. And the PM refused to answers Corbyn's questions about this. 

[tumama]

On 3/13/2018 at 12:39 PM, Orac said:

 

Did you notice the original post about TMs statement to parliament?

 

How is that evidence? In the normal world we carry out an investigation first. Then we assign blame. 

 

The government pretty much asked Russia to prove its innocence instead without providing them with any evidence or even a sample of the alleged nerve agent. 

[tukkytuktuk]

Quote

U.S. and Uzbeks Agree on Chemical Arms Plant Cleanup
By JUDITH MILLER MAY 25, 1999

Earlier this year, the Pentagon informed Congress that it intends to spend up to $6 million under its Cooperative Threat Reduction program to demilitarize the so-called Chemical Research Institute, in Nukus, Uzbekistan. Soviet defectors and American officials say the Nukus plant was the major research and testing site for a new class of secret, highly lethal chemical weapons called ''Novichok,'' which in Russian means ''new guy.''

The agreement to help Uzbekistan clean up the plant is part of wide-ranging cooperation between Tashkent and Washington since the former Soviet republic of Uzbekistan became independent in 1991. 

Read more
U.S. and Uzbeks Agree on Chemical Arms Plant Cleanup - The New York Times

Edited March 15, 2018 by metisdead
Edited as per fair use policy: 14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

[juice777]

See sambum's explanations about why people accept illegal behaviour from their leaders when they perceive themselves to benefit from the status quo. If you do not accept his rationale, I guess there is no point continuing to thrash out the same points so we will just have to agree to disagree.

This was on the TV today you should watch it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09w85tc

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[lannarebirth]

On 3/12/2018 at 10:16 PM, Orac said:

 

The aim is to destablise UK govt which is possibly why it is so obvious.  Wouldn't surprise me if TM finds herself in the unenviable position of pulling England out of the World Cup which, in an already divided country, would create further discord.

Why would anyone care if you missed a soccer tournament? It's just a game after all, and a pretty damn boring one at that.

[malagateddy]

I think all Govt's should take a massive step back..I also think that the UK Govt should invite Russian scientists to come and work with the UK authorities to get to the bottom of this matter.
Remember war criminal Blair and his "weapons of mass destruction" etc etc
I hope that there is money trail somewhere..'cos it can easily be traced back to source.
Remember we are only getting perhaps a " doctored" version of events by such news outlets as the BRUSSELS BROADCASTING CORPORATION.


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[CharlesSwann]

22 hours ago, Grouse said:

IMHO use of a military grade nerve agent in an offence on British territory IS a major issue and worthy of an appropriate response.

The substance used doesn't interest me. The knife in my kitchen drawer could kill someone just as effectively - in fact, probably more effectively, as these two weren't killed. If someone really wants to kill someone, does it matter how? In any case, getting bumped off is an occupational hazard for spies.

 

And holy [deleted] - the BBC have got that chick's picture in their world news headline again today.

Someone above mentioned the word hysterical - that's quite accurate. Everyone needs to be far more aware of how the mainstream media are emotionally manipulating them on a daily basis.

Edited March 15, 2018 by CharlesSwann

[juice777]

Got 2 have a laugh sometimes this is today at the Russian food market at pattaya park

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[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, CharlesSwann said:

The substance used doesn't interest me. The knife in my kitchen drawer could kill someone just as effectively - in fact, probably more effectively, as these two weren't killed. If someone really wants to kill someone, does it matter how? In any case, getting bumped off is an occupational hazard for spies.

 

And holy [deleted] - the BBC have got that chick's picture in their world news headline again today.

Someone above mentioned the word hysterical - that's quite accurate. Everyone needs to be far more aware of how the mainstream media are emotionally manipulating them on a daily basis.

The knife in your kitchen drawer must be good to exceed 8x the lethality of VX! Where did you get it?