Vitara 1999 can I swap manual to automatic?

[cheeryble]

Hi guys thanks for all the interest.

 

Progress has been made.

Wednesday dropped that car off a while with the original garage.....but not long enough for the clutch to come out.

 

Whatever he did......and I suspect it was just adjusting the clutch again as he told missus it'll take no time.......the car has been running with an OK clutch for 2-3 days now.

I tried to ask him exactly what he did but he wasn't communicative and missus was rushing me away.

 

I would love to know what the prob was (hopefully I can use the past participle!) .......I mean what the hell makes the clearance point of the clutch change both before and after the new clutch......and then (hopefully) gets fixed on the SECOND adjustment?

 

Twilight Zone music in background........

 

Cross fingers we'll try another few days.

 

And thanks again 

Edited April 28, 2018 by cheeryble

[Lancashirelad]

Where is the biting point now? Should be about 1/4 to a 1/3rd of the way up.

[cheeryble]

Sorry LL I overlooked your last question.

the answer is the biting point I'd guess is (normally) within your range maybe up 1/4.

 

BUT

whilst the good news I went a few days with no problem (and the new clutch is soft enough for me to use comfortably), the fact is the problem is still happening in the same conditions as before.......eg moving up slowly at lights etc......and the clutch biting point gets lower and lower over x minutes until it will not clear. I've been kinda stuck a couple of times and hate trying to ram it into gear which I generally can a while until it simply will not disengage at all.

 

Now I can take it to a good place like say Ton at ProAuto but it seems to me just taking the clutch out again is a bit like stabbing in the dark. Definitely best to work this out theoretically first or maybe someone's had this experience.

What else can I do?

 

I guess checking how long it takes to come back to normal when I stop the engine and park could be done better........right now I just kinda feel if it's left for a half hour it'll be OK. I should check after 10 minutes, 5 minutes etc.

 

Could also post elsewhere additionally but as you guys have been in on this detective story you deserve to follow.

 

Could also ask at Suzuki main dealer.

 

I will do all of these.

Edited May 10, 2018 by cheeryble

[Lancashirelad]

I'm at a loss. I've no further suggestions at this time, sorry. (other than sell it & buy an auto).

Do come back and let us know if you finally get it sorted.

[cheeryble]

8 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

I'm at a loss. I've no further suggestions at this time, sorry. (other than sell it & buy an auto).

Do come back and let us know if you finally get it sorted.

Already started my "what would a clever man do?" course of action but instead of presenting it piecemeal I'll keep u in suspense.

[Lancashirelad]

This just happened to come up on a youtube channel I follow:  https://youtu.be/JXlG-BI0-wY

[transam]

For clutch use I liked the adjustment to bite near the top, 3/4...So when shifting through the gears it didn't take a lot of time or effort...

[Lancashirelad]

1 hour ago, transam said:

For clutch use I liked the adjustment to bite near the top, 3/4...So when shifting through the gears it didn't take a lot of time or effort...

Maybe you do, but both are incorrect. A clutch should always be fully depressed. In normal driving, there is no rush to move the shifter.

[transam]

2 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

Maybe you do, but both are incorrect. A clutch should always be fully depressed. In normal driving, there is no rush to move the shifter.

The clutch pedal is just a lever chummy, nothing complicated about it at all, as long as when your foot ain't on the pedal the clutch is locked up that's it. Why have to put your foot to the floor to take up nothing with the last bit to free it, crazy....Your idea creates gear crunches..

[Lancashirelad]

17 minutes ago, transam said:

The clutch pedal is just a lever chummy, nothing complicated about it at all, as long as when your foot ain't on the pedal the clutch is locked up that's it. Why have to put your foot to the floor to take up nothing with the last bit to free it, crazy....Your idea creates gear crunches..

In 24 years as a Driving Instructor can't say I ever noticed pupils crunching gears when they had fully depressed the pedal, but when they hadn't, yes. Did my first clutch replacement age 12 in 1970. Owned a small garage business for nearly 20 years. Have had a Gold level advanced driving certificate for about 15 years (retested every 3). What do I know?

 

Snatched, rushed gear changes are what wears synchromesh out.

[transam]

14 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

In 24 years as a Driving Instructor can't say I ever noticed pupils crunching gears when they had fully depressed the pedal, but when they hadn't, yes. Did my first clutch replacement age 12 in 1970. Owned a small garage business for nearly 20 years. Have had a Gold level advanced driving certificate for about 15 years (retested every 3). What do I know?

 

Snatched, rushed gear changes are what wears synchromesh out.

I also have motoring history too, but that has nothing to do with how l adjusted a clutch "lever" for ease of constant operation.......?

[cheeryble]

I have been "seeing how it goes" for a while.

 

Since the last able adjustment I had a couple of close calls meaning clutch close to not disengaging and disengagement point moving lower temporarily as before, but have not had a bad problem.

I went onto suzuki forums and it was suggested there was a great amount of force in the cable which can cut away at the firewall where the clutch cable fitting goes through. I checked this and it doesn't seem to be the case.

The other suggestion was to check the top end of the pedal to see if it had started coming apart.

It's very difficult to get a good view of this, especially stiff from Parkinsons, but it felt alright.

I meant to have another go but havent got round to it and am getting on pretty well driving for now.

I need to still do it though.

Interesting youtube LL....it would indeed seem too much pressure on the thrust bearing.

However the old bearing I got back with the (unnecessary) clutch change ran smoothly.

[transam]

If a clutch disc is out of shape it can cause ploblems...Though this is rare, ploblems can happen from stuff we do not consider..

[cheeryble]

25 minutes ago, transam said:

If a clutch disc is out of shape it can cause ploblems...Though this is rare, ploblems can happen from stuff we do not consider..

But clutch has been replaced.......problem before, problem after.

[mogandave]

This seems like a linkage problem of some kind to me.

[Lancashirelad]

I've just read the whole thread again. I notice that although the cable has been adjusted numerous times, it has not been replaced. I was discussing the issue with some mechanic friends. The thought is to replace the cable next as it's an inexpensive job.

 

Also, on re-reading the thread I noticed something. The clutch drive plate that was removed, which was apparently under 2 years old, is stamped "made in Japan." That to me indicates it could very well be the original clutch. It is possible, but unlikely that the 1st replacement was done using genuine Suzuki parts from a main dealer. 

[transam]

On 5/26/2018 at 1:54 PM, cheeryble said:

But clutch has been replaced.......problem before, problem after.

Sorry don't want to read all the posts again but did they just change the disc or disc and pressure plate..?

They probably would have given you the stuff they replaced...

[Lancashirelad]

7 hours ago, transam said:

Sorry don't want to read all the posts again but did they just change the disc or disc and pressure plate..?

They probably would have given you the stuff they replaced...

They did. They (allegedly) replaced the full clutch, however one can't help but wonder, given that the fault has not changed, did they just adjust the cable, then bill him for a full clutch and give him some clutch parts from the scrap pile? Only way to know is by examining the bell housing to engine block bolts to see if they have been out. 

[mogandave]

Maybe things have changed a lot since I did my own wrenching, but if the problem is the clutch not disengaging completely, the clutch is not warn out. If the clutch was warn out, it would still engage, but it would slip.

 

 

 

[ningnong]

Frayed cables can do funny things inside a housing. Maybe heating up causes enough of a change in the cable and housing to bind. Definitely want to change it to eliminate it as the possible cause.

 

My translation of parts and repairs list.
1. Pressure plate
2. Disc
3. Release bearing
4. Pilot bearing
5. Resurface flywheel
6. Bushing - gear rod ? (No idea which bushing this is. Maybe in the transmission/clutch housing or clutch pedal assembly)
7. Gear oil 2 L.
8. Engine oil 5 L. (good deal for 80 baht total, should be 400?)

[lust]

Just buy a car that has it already..

[cheeryble]

21 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

I've just read the whole thread again. I notice that although the cable has been adjusted numerous times, it has not been replaced. I was discussing the issue with some mechanic friends. The thought is to replace the cable next as it's an inexpensive job.

 

Also, on re-reading the thread I noticed something. The clutch drive plate that was removed, which was apparently under 2 years old, is stamped "made in Japan." That to me indicates it could very well be the original clutch. It is possible, but unlikely that the 1st replacement was done using genuine Suzuki parts from a main dealer. 

Valiant effort LL.

I will indeed change the cable I know the last place didn't do it.....he said it was fine (when he gave it back (I would always change it with a clutch change). ....this may just be because the visible bit of cable near the clutch lever looks shiny, and to be fair the clutch movement now feels smooth.

 

BTW there may repeat may have been a bit of improvement but the missus got well stuck the other day. Unmovable. We went back after 45 min and drove away fine.

 

As for your detective work well spotted it is odd. 

I'm pretty sure I had a clutch change at proauto under a couple of years ago, but in days past I always went to the Suzuki dealer on the Doi Saket road. But its the friction plate which has Made in Japan on it. Go figure......as the friction plate they gave me back is not worn out it does actually look maybe under a couple of years old.

 

Total km driven since new 320,000.

Edited May 29, 2018 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

4 hours ago, ningnong said:

Frayed cables can do funny things inside a housing. Maybe heating up causes enough of a change in the cable and housing to bind. Definitely want to change it to eliminate it as the possible cause.

 

My translation of parts and repairs list.
1. Pressure plate
2. Disc
3. Release bearing
4. Pilot bearing
5. Resurface flywheel
6. Bushing - gear rod ? (No idea which bushing this is. Maybe in the transmission/clutch housing or clutch pedal assembly)
7. Gear oil 2 L.
8. Engine oil 5 L. (good deal for 80 baht total, should be 400?)

 

I think I chucked the bill now after photographing it but yes the last item definitely says nam mun kreung.....engine oil and is way t00 cheap. But where it looks like 5 litres the number and word "leet" are pushed to the right. But it doesn't look like a half litre just to top up. Hmmm.

BTW when I get my oil changed now I always use long life Valvoline......about 25% extra but you get 10k km instead of 5k km, and save a visit to the shop.

[Lancashirelad]

I see there is a thread on ProAuto here, looks like a decent set up. ProAuto

Edited May 29, 2018 by Lancashirelad

[ningnong]

A farfetched but possible explanation of why it only starts having a problem after driving for a while is there are frayed strands of the cable in the cable housing and each time you push in the clutch the strands get shoved back slowly into the cable housing until it starts binding the cable itself. After stopping for a while the frayed strands have a chance to uncoil.

[Lacessit]

320,000 km is a lot for what is basically a 4-pot tin box. Nearly 20 years old to boot. People do have love affairs with their cars and find it difficult to part with them. However, IMHO the OP would be amazed if he took a 2018 model of most brands for a test drive w.r.to ease of driving.

I drive a 1989 Merc coupe, and I love it too. It only has 105,000 km on the odometer. No way would I still own it at 320,000 km - it would bankrupt me.

[cheeryble]

10 hours ago, Lancashirelad said:

I see there is a thread on ProAuto here, looks like a decent set up. ProAuto

I've been very pleased with them, conscientious and good explanations and can use LINE to contact which I like

[cheeryble]

4 hours ago, ningnong said:

A farfetched but possible explanation of why it only starts having a problem after driving for a while is there are frayed strands of the cable in the cable housing and each time you push in the clutch the strands get shoved back slowly into the cable housing until it starts binding the cable itself. After stopping for a while the frayed strands have a chance to uncoil.

 

Spare minutes seem few and far between right now but I will get that cable changed ASA I can. First job to check off.

[transam]

4 minutes ago, cheeryble said:

 

Spare minutes seem few and far between right now but I will get that cable changed ASA I can. First job to check off.

If the cable is frayed you can usually feel it through the pedal/foot...

[cheeryble]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

320,000 km is a lot for what is basically a 4-pot tin box. Nearly 20 years old to boot. People do have love affairs with their cars and find it difficult to part with them. However, IMHO the OP would be amazed if he took a 2018 model of most brands for a test drive w.r.to ease of driving.

I drive a 1989 Merc coupe, and I love it too. It only has 105,000 km on the odometer. No way would I still own it at 320,000 km - it would bankrupt me.

 

The car is such a good fit for my v long body, the rather rough roads I seem to sometimes go on, and to hang my bike on it's bracket I made for the rear door wheel it's difficult to find an alternative.

The older I get the more I'll appreciate a high seat entry.

Plus I got to build a house shortly and pay for it.

Not a hint of smoke from the tailpipe it would be like putting down a beloved dog which with 16 valves still overtakes most others.

What I DO NEED is a reupholstered driver's seat.

But take your point and would like better gas mileage.

BTW Kh AWirat at Suzuki keeps an old Vitara same as mine..

Edited May 30, 2018 by cheeryble