UK Labour leader Corbyn apologises for anti-Semitism in his party‍​

[thaibeachlovers]

11 hours ago, Basil B said:

A very difficult subject...

 

Say something that is not liked by the Jewish community one is labeled "anti-Semitic" 

 

Certainly the holocaust was a grave injustice, as was the massacre at York in England 1190.

 

But am I wrong to point out that our UK Parliament and House of Lords has a disproportionately high number of Jewish MP's and Lords?

 

We have 19 Jewish MP's out of 650 MP's that's 3% yet according to the 2011 census there were 269,568 declared Jews in the UK (0.4%).

 

IMHO this has influenced the UK in unfairly favouring Israel in conflicts with their Arab neighbours.

 

And according to the 2011 Census there were 261,584 declared Buddhists in the UK and as far as I know there is only one Buddhist MP...

 

I doubt the Buddhists have the same political clout and financial backing as the other demographic that you reference.

Takes "who you know" to get on in politics.

[Jingthing]

38 minutes ago, sukhumvitneon said:

Give this man a beer and a fortnight's paid leave

For posting a total falsehood? Seems too easy. 

[SheungWan]

Jeremy "I only glanced at it but I thought it was a parrot carrying an electric fan."

(credit to Euan McColm)

 

[SheungWan]

11 hours ago, jonesthepost said:

I saw the mural  and to me me it look like a load of fat cats sitting with a game board in front of them I did not see where in implied they were Jewish. But there again I  would not take any notice of it any way whoever the creed of people they were,just put a down to a poor painting

Possibly someone here who uses the same optician as Jeremy Corbyn.

[rott]

21 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

LOL. Yes. There are  regions and cities in North America where  they fall well below the poverty line. This is particularly acute with the 65+ segment.

 I grew up with children from the professional classes or who's parents owned businesses. As a result, the Jews, blacks, asians, Indians, and other ethnic groups were all like me, and me like them, so we just assumed everyone was like us. I never saw impoverished Jews until I was in my teens, just as I never met a dangerous black person until I was in uni and my lab partner from Ghana told me to be careful with the American black guy because he smoked in the non smoking zone.

I went to a Church of England school so we didn't have too many religious jews, although I recall at easter church services, pointing out to one kid that the chap stapled to the vicar's stick bore an amazing resemblance to his uncle the hippy who owned a clothing store and the jewish prefect shushed me.

Thanks for that gk, very interesting. So in the USA you will still come across  Jewish working class areas - or  neighborhoods as they are called there.?

 

Coming back to the OP the left wing have always supported the Palestinians, same as they always supported Sinn Fein/IRA. I once saw a combined Irish Republican/Palestinian march cum demo near Seven Sisters road. In Manchester I understand that the Manchester Martyrs (murderers?) Irish parade usually had a Palestinian contingent, as well as other assorted leftie groups. Totally out of touch now so do not know what happens these days.

Edited March 29, 2018 by rott

[dexterm]

9 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Possibly someone here who uses the same optician as Jeremy Corbyn.

 Perhaps you should get your own eyesight tested too. The mural's artist Ockerman has stated that the figures represented an "elite banker cartel" consisting of the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, and the Morgans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mear_One

 

So is the mural an attack on the Protestant Christian Rockefellers and Morgans? 

 

Begs the question why is Corbyn's defense of artistic freedom in 2012 being dredged up just now and rehyped as part of a prolonged smear campaign as anti Semitism. Could it be that certain vested interests don't want him to become PM?

Edited March 29, 2018 by dexterm

[CharlesSwann]

Clearly the line that has to be walked in order not to be labelled an anti-semite seems to be quite fine. At least I think clear evidence is needed in order to brand someone anti-semite - not just suspicion or inference - given the gravity of the topic and the effect it can have on public standing. The accusations against Corbyn are so subtle as to be ridiculous. Are the Jews that insecure? Are we even allowed to ask?

 

There was a feature yesterday on the BBC Website about 'are the French really rude?' After much anecdotal evidence, the consensus was that they are, and I agree. But I don't see the French getting outraged at the suggestion. Actually, the Russians and Chinese are even ruder. Come to that, the English are fussy and officious, and the Scots really ought to know that their accent doesn't travel well. Perhaps they should all have a word with themselves.

 

Anyway, it struck me that it is inconceivable that these or similar criticisms could be levelled at the Jews - that they now have a sense of inviolability. And I am not anti-semite merely in pondering why. I'm just a straight-taking guy and think everyone should stop the touchy and aggressive responses to anything remotely critical. As any psychiatrist would say, if you can't talk about it, you'll never make progress.

Edited March 29, 2018 by CharlesSwann

[SheungWan]

So now we have the interesting spectacle of a three-way 'split' between those who say there is nothing there, Jeremy Corbyn who admits there is something but drags his heels and then the actual anti-Semites who increasingly crawl out from under their stones to rehash the old stuff. But they all cover for each other and some slither back and forth. The Labour Party has a problem? Oh no! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/15/labour-suspends-activist-vicki-kirby-over-antisemitism-claims

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, CharlesSwann said:

Clearly the line that has to be walked in order not to be labelled an anti-semite seems to be quite fine. At least I think clear evidence is needed in order to brand someone anti-semite - not just suspicion or inference - given the gravity of the topic and the effect it can have on public standing. The accusations against Corbyn are so subtle as to be ridiculous. Are the Jews that insecure? Are we even allowed to ask?

 

There was a feature yesterday on the BBC Website about 'are the French really rude?' After much anecdotal evidence, the consensus was that they are, and I agree. But I don't see the French getting outraged at the suggestion. Actually, the Russians and Chinese are even ruder. Come to that, the English are fussy and officious, and the Scots really ought to know that their accent doesn't travel well. Perhaps they should all have a word with themselves.

 

Anyway, it struck me that it is inconceivable that these or similar criticisms could be levelled at the Jews - that they now have a sense of inviolability. And I am not anti-semite merely in pondering why. I'm just a straight-taking guy and think everyone should stop the touchy and aggressive responses to anything remotely critical. As any psychiatrist would say, if you can't talk about it, you'll never make progress.

 

Were any of these groups your mention in your post ever seriously prosecuted over the stereotypes you toss about?

 

Quote

I'm just a straight-taking guy

 

Nah, you're a troll like you were on your previous account. Goes also for the "not anti-semite" bit.

 

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

 Perhaps you should get your own eyesight tested too. The mural's artist Ockerman has stated that the figures represented an "elite banker cartel" consisting of the Rothschilds, the Rockefellers, and the Morgans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mear_One

 

So is the mural an attack on the Protestant Christian Rockefellers and Morgans? 

 

Begs the question why is Corbyn's defense of artistic freedom in 2012 being dredged up just now and rehyped as part of a prolonged smear campaign as anti Semitism. Could it be that certain vested interests don't want him to become PM?

 

Begs the question if all them instances in which Corbyn showed and shows his true colors are to be ignored as trifles. Apparently the answer is yes if you're a devotee of his.

 

As for dredging up things - 2012 is hardly ancient history, and it hardly the only instance in which related comments were made and related views aired. Coming from someone who is all too happy quoting leaders' and politicians' past words as "evidence" - a bit on the disingenuous side.

[SheungWan]

Change the subject or kick it into the long grass is one way to go. Anyway, today's There Is No Problem In the Labour Party, Oh No!: See today's Daily Mail. "Labour Party In Meltdown Over Anti-Semitism" "Party discipline chief quits after she opposed suspending activist who posted vile Facebook link denying Holocaust" ref: Daniel Martin, Policy Editor.

[Scott]

An improperly sourced post has been removed.  

[dexterm]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Begs the question if all them instances in which Corbyn showed and shows his true colors are to be ignored  as trifles. Apparently the answer is yes if you're a devotee of his.

 

As for dredging up things - 2012 is hardly ancient history, and it hardly the only instance in which related comments were made and related views aired. Coming from someone who is all too happy quoting leaders' and politicians' past words as "evidence" - a bit on the disingenuous side.

What instances that show his true colors?

 

You have the same not too hidden besmirchment agenda as Luciana Berger who started this whole mural controversy to undermine Corbyn. She is the parliamentary chairperson of the Jewish Labour Movement,  which lobbies for Israel and has strong links with the Israeli embassy.

 

[dexterm]

 sorry  repeat post

Edited March 29, 2018 by dexterm

[dexterm]

23 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Change the subject or kick it into the long grass is one way to go. Anyway, today's There Is No Problem In the Labour Party, Oh No!: See today's Daily Mail. "Labour Party In Meltdown Over Anti-Semitism" "Party discipline chief quits after she opposed suspending activist who posted vile Facebook link denying Holocaust" ref: Daniel Martin, Policy Editor.

>>See today's Daily Mail....555

 

Says it all! I don't think you do your cause much good by quoting from that right wing gutter press...the UK's Fox Noise.

Edited March 29, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

9 minutes ago, dexterm said:

What instances that show his true colors?

 

You have the same not too hidden besmirchment agenda as Luciana Berger who started this whole mural controversy to undermine Corbyn. She is the parliamentary chairperson of the Jewish Labour Movement,  which lobbies for Israel and has strong links with the Israeli embassy.

 

 

There were quite a few topics on TVF covering some of these. More when it comes to UK media. Since you participated on most, it would be rather silly feigning ignorance.

 

I've no idea who Luciana Berger is, but my views regarding Corbyn are no secret - I think he's bad news, and stuff as mentioned in the OP just a part of the reason why. That you try whine about "not too hidden besmirchment" (you really love this word, don't you?) while openly "besmirching" another poster pretty much sums the force of your "argument".

[dexterm]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

There were quite a few topics on TVF covering some of these. More when it comes to UK media. Since you participated on most, it would be rather silly feigning ignorance.

 

I've no idea who Luciana Berger is, but my views regarding Corbyn are no secret - I think he's bad news, and stuff as mentioned in the OP just a part of the reason why. That you try whine about "not too hidden besmirchment" (you really love this word, don't you?) while openly "besmirching" another poster pretty much sums the force of your "argument".

So the usual can't put up but wont shut up. Prepared to smear Corbyn with vague innuendos, just like the faux campaigners in the OP.

 

I did not besmirch the poster, just his sources.

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, dexterm said:

There was a counter demonstration in Parliament Square organised by the Jewish Voice for Labour, who are appalled by the Jewish Board of Deputies' actions.

"Leah Levine, the co-chair of Jewish Voice for Labour, did not deny there was some anti-Semitism in Labour just as, she said, there was in society as a whole - but she argued it was being blown out of proportion by opponents of Mr Corbyn - and that anti-Semitism was a far bigger problem on the right."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43536830

 

But strangely not a word of criticism from the Jewish Board of Deputies about recent anti Semitism in the Conservative Party ahead of forthcoming elections. Methinks vested interests are playing politics here under the guise of faux moral outrage.

 

Blown out of proportion would be presenting the lines quoted as somehow representative of a rather lengthy article, mostly making the opposite point - and going directly against some of your usual vehement views (funnily enough, even Corbyn seems to denounce them). Other than Levine's claim, there's nothing in the article supporting her assertion, nor would it take away from criticism leveled against Corbyn and the Labour Party.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, dexterm said:

So the usual can't put up but wont shut up. Prepared to smear Corbyn with vague innuendos, just like the faux campaigners in the OP.

 

I did not besmirch the poster, just his sources.

 

No, the usual way in which you pretend each new instance is a first - and that things were never discussed previously. Considering even the OP provides several references to such, your comment is dishonest. And do stop your nonsense, it can't be "besmirching" only when it suits you.

[geriatrickid]

12 minutes ago, dexterm said:

What instances that show his true colors?

 

You have the same not too hidden besmirchment agenda as Luciana Berger who started this whole mural controversy to undermine Corbyn. She is the parliamentary chairperson of the Jewish Labour Movement,  which lobbies for Israel and has strong links with the Israeli embassy.

 

Ahh so now it is the "Jewess"  Luciana Berger  who is to blame. A zionist conspiracy n'est ce pas?  Care to walk it back as this is the third time in a month the timeline is referenced;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/27/labour-ignored-formal-complaint-over-antisemitic-mural-emails-suggest

 

Ms. Berger   is late to the party as others  raised the issue and were ignored.

 

Here's the part where the hypocrisy of Labour was first revealed: When the mural was  placed at the  location near Brick lane, no one asked the locals if they were ok with it. The white American just imposed his hatred on a community. Maybe he assumed that  because the neighborhood had  historically had a jewish population that this would get him some attention. The area is now  a predominately  SE Asian muslim area, and many of the locals resented being used as a locale to promote animosity. The mural issue drew the attention of locals almost immediately who demanded it be removed. Here's a reminder;

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/mear-one-mural-hanbury-street-brick-lane-391269

The purveyors of hate  often make the false assumption that certain ethnic groups will embrace their views. It comes as a  shock to them when they  find out such people resent being used and taken for granted.  It was like the placing of a garbage dump, with the assumption that the marginal population of the site would not be able to stop  it.

[Expatthailover]

Seems to be ok ( in many quarters, not me in any way ) to express anti thai, anti muslim, anti african sentiments.

Surely it should be se rigeur to denounce the negative stereotyping and denigration of any creed 

[dexterm]

40 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Blown out of proportion would be presenting the lines quoted as somehow representative of a rather lengthy article, mostly making the opposite point - and going directly against some of your usual vehement views (funnily enough, even Corbyn seems to denounce them). Other than Levine's claim, there's nothing in the article supporting her assertion, nor would it take away from criticism leveled against Corbyn and the Labour Party.

Just because the BBC doesn't fully quote Levine doesn't mean her references dont exist.

I could quote you the instances of anti Semitism in the Conservative party that she is refering to, that never get a word of criticism from the Jewish Board of Deputies, because they are playing politics aimed solely at Corbyn with a not so hidden agenda, but then I would be accused of drifting off topic.

Suggest you google Goeorge Soros Nick Timothy Theresa May anti Semitism

Edited March 29, 2018 by dexterm

[dexterm]

25 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Ahh so now it is the "Jewess"  Luciana Berger  who is to blame. A zionist conspiracy n'est ce pas?  Care to walk it back as this is the third time in a month the timeline is referenced;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/mar/27/labour-ignored-formal-complaint-over-antisemitic-mural-emails-suggest

 

Ms. Berger   is late to the party as others  raised the issue and were ignored.

 

Here's the part where the hypocrisy of Labour was first revealed: When the mural was  placed at the  location near Brick lane, no one asked the locals if they were ok with it. The white American just imposed his hatred on a community. Maybe he assumed that  because the neighborhood had  historically had a jewish population that this would get him some attention. The area is now  a predominately  SE Asian muslim area, and many of the locals resented being used as a locale to promote animosity. The mural issue drew the attention of locals almost immediately who demanded it be removed. Here's a reminder;

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/mear-one-mural-hanbury-street-brick-lane-391269

The purveyors of hate  often make the false assumption that certain ethnic groups will embrace their views. It comes as a  shock to them when they  find out such people resent being used and taken for granted.  It was like the placing of a garbage dump, with the assumption that the marginal population of the site would not be able to stop  it.

"Jewess" are your anti Semitic quotation marks not mine. Don't try to use the same bogus slandering tactics against me as the OP demonstrators.

 

So a mural painted by an American six years ago leads to mass demonstrations aimed at besmirching Corbyn today coincidentally just before elections that Labor may win, and instigated by Luciana Berger stabbing her own party's chances in the back. She has known sympathies with Israel against a man who has known sympathies with Palestinians. 

 

Something fishy going on here, and it aint about anti Semitism.

[sukhumvitneon]

Anti semitism now means anything that offends/exposes a jew anywhere, for anything, ever, so it's not surprising the term gets thrown around like lawn darts.

[SheungWan]

55 minutes ago, sukhumvitneon said:

Anti semitism now means anything that offends/exposes a jew anywhere, for anything, ever, so it's not surprising the term gets thrown around like lawn darts.

The Kick It Into The Long Grass Bus is right on time!

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, sukhumvitneon said:

Anti semitism now means anything that offends/exposes a jew anywhere, for anything, ever, so it's not surprising the term gets thrown around like lawn darts.

That is total garbage.  

Edited March 29, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

The Kick It Into The Long Grass Bus is right on time!

For many, it's a sickness. 

[kannot]

1 hour ago, sukhumvitneon said:

Anti semitism now means anything that offends/exposes a jew anywhere, for anything, ever, so it's not surprising the term gets thrown around like lawn darts.

Islamaphobe is way better though or far right extremist

[Morch]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

Just because the BBC doesn't fully quote Levine doesn't mean her references dont exist.

I could quote you the instances of anti Semitism in the Conservative party that she is refering to, that never get a word of criticism from the Jewish Board of Deputies, because they are playing politics aimed solely at Corbyn with a not so hidden agenda, but then I would be accused of drifting off topic.

Suggest you google Goeorge Soros Nick Timothy Theresa May anti Semitism

 

The BBC is not obliged to follow your ideas (or Levine's, for that matter) while reporting on issues. The point made was that you chose to quote a minor bit of the article linked, while blatantly ignoring that most of it goes exactly against your views.

 

I'm sure that you could quote whatever - whether or not the motivations you assert are real is another matter, though. Regardless, instances of antisemitism in the Conservative Party will not not wash off instances of antisemitism in the Labour Party. You're not drifting off topic, you're simply deflecting. All the more ridiculous considering Corbyn's own admissions as to antisemitism in his own party, and words regarding expressions of modern day antisemitism - which, if taken sincerely, are at a direct opposite to yours.

 

 

[dexterm]

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Blown out of proportion would be presenting the lines quoted as somehow representative of a rather lengthy article, mostly making the opposite point - and going directly against some of your usual vehement views (funnily enough, even Corbyn seems to denounce them). Other than Levine's claim, there's nothing in the article supporting her assertion, nor would it take away from criticism leveled against Corbyn and the Labour Party.

 

48 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The BBC is not obliged to follow your ideas (or Levine's, for that matter) while reporting on issues. The point made was that you chose to quote a minor bit of the article linked, while blatantly ignoring that most of it goes exactly against your views.

 

I'm sure that you could quote whatever - whether or not the motivations you assert are real is another matter, though. Regardless, instances of antisemitism in the Conservative Party will not not wash off instances of antisemitism in the Labour Party. You're not drifting off topic, you're simply deflecting. All the more ridiculous considering Corbyn's own admissions as to antisemitism in his own party, and words regarding expressions of modern day antisemitism - which, if taken sincerely, are at a direct opposite to yours.

 

 

Nor am I obliged to agree with every point made in a BBC or any other report. I was backing up a fact with a link that Jewish supporters of Corbyn regard the OP demonstrators as being on some sort of one sided witch hunt attacking the Labor leader. Whereas sources are something you rarely offer. You just present the forum with your usually fence sitting opinion and declare it as fact. 

 

>>Corbyn's own admissions as to antisemitism in his own party

...Of course there is, as Levine acknowledged...it exists in all political parties and societies. But at least Corbyn is doing something about it, unlike the opposition parties.

 

What I and the Jewish Voice for Labour object to is the bizarre consistently one sided attack focused on Corbyn  himself, and the deliberate conflation of anti Zionism with genuine anti Semitism. There is the hand of a foreign power at work here interfering again in UK politics because they don't like the prospect of him becoming PM.

 

I suggest you view "The Lobby" available on Youtube to see how a certain foreign power operates to manipulate UK politics.

Edited March 29, 2018 by dexterm