Israeli forces kill 16 Palestinians in Gaza border protests - Gaza medics

[dexterm]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You post hyperbole, it gets called out. Nothing derogatory about it, no nerves hit by your nonsense.

 

Going on about "perfect narrative" is quite disingenuous, coming from someone routinely refusing to address and acknowledge anything which might present the Palestinians in a less than positive light.

 

And as for your narrative - there was no uniform claim that the Israel's actions were alright. As for the nonsense about IDF troops being there "days before the march began" - there are always troops  deployed there, as is generally known. That additional units, specifically snipers, were deployed beforehand is a good thing - unless one was hoping for even more bloodshed (as would have happened if regular units were on the scene). That you claim "murder" is just another loaded term pushed to the discussion. IDF soldiers are not obligated to get hurt in order to satisfy your warped sense of "balance" - as said, some are more interested in bloodshed then anything.

 

And, of course, making up quotes of something which wasn't said nor included in my posts is just the usual dishonest way you conduct yourself on these topics (""Now look what you made those poor victim IDF do.").

 

Spare me your pathetic moralizing. I'm not the one exploiting each and every bloody incident to further an extreme adopted political stance.

Murder is when from behind a steel fence in an entrenched position a heavily protected sniper in no danger himself cold bloodedly decides which protestor he is going to select to kill in order to be a warning to others

[Tchooptip]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

15 people were killed in the LA riots and over 2,000 injured.   

Dear Sir, please do not be politically incorrect Pfffff

[ezzra]

Some members in this forum' topic has their minds fixed for along,

long time that no matter what will happen in the Gaza and the west bank,

Israel is always, but always to blame, so what is the point to argue with

close minded, one track thinking people, unfortunately, it's not only about

the Palestinians and Israel, it has to do with the rise of libertarian, left PC

new age people that can only see what they want to see and the hell

with the truth....

[Thorgal]

Alright, a bit of reprieve from some of the routine propaganda nonsense....

 

The Israeli response is undoubtedly heavy-handed. There maybe could have been better non-lethal ways of dealing with the Palestinian protestors - I don't know that this is the case, or that the conditions make such means effective. What I am sure of, is that if protestors were allowed a violent charge on the fence, the resulting casualties would be way higher.

 

IMO, the Palestinians are just doing the same routine again - which is disheartening considering the potential for change. Instead of going for a truly non-violent protest, seat in, march on the fence - it all reverted back to usual form. While it still gets media attention, it's not halfway as effective as the alternative. Israel would have a much harder time defending its actions had the Palestinian been a bit smarter about it. As it stands, this protest represents a sort of compromise between factions, some of which are hardliners and need the "action". Then again, there's the Palestinian culture, mentality and social norms, which do not seat well with passive resistance.

 

Other than the political propaganda nonsense and rehashing partisan dramatic general comments about the conflict - what would be an effective, and less lethal response to such mass protests which carry the potential to go south at any moment?

Don’t see how the Palestinian farmer who was killed fits your ‘Palestinian culture, mentality and social norms’-narrative to such an extent that it’s all too normal to legitimate such crimes...


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[ezzra]

1 minute ago, Thorgal said:

 

Don’t see how the Palestinian farmer who was killed fits your ‘Palestinian culture, mentality and social norms’-narrative to such an extent that it’s all too normal to legitimate such crimes...


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Really, a Palestinian farmer picking parsley among 30,000 unruly mob?

did you really fall for that? well, it in fact it wasn't a farmer, it was a one

year old baby in a stroller holding flowers in her tiny hands and she

was shot by the merciless Israeli soldier, now that a better narrative isn't it?...

[stevenl]

17 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Some members in this forum' topic has their minds fixed for along,

long time that no matter what will happen in the Gaza and the west bank,

Israel is always, but always to blame, so what is the point to argue with

close minded, one track thinking people, unfortunately, it's not only about

the Palestinians and Israel, it has to do with the rise of libertarian, left PC

new age people that can only see what they want to see and the hell

with the truth....

I would say 'some members have their minds fixed, Israel is never to blame. What is the point ...

 

So what do you think is the root cause of the problems here?

[Elfin]

5 hours ago, ezzra said:

These group of people have been butting their collective heads against a concrete walls for generations now 

The only time I have seen heads butting against a concrete wall was at the Western wall :)

 

How can the heavily armed IDF justify the use of live bullets against unarmed civilians? The Palestinians are well in their rights to demand to return to their land and homes.

BDS.

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Elfin

[dexterm]

13 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Some members in this forum' topic has their minds fixed for along,

long time that no matter what will happen in the Gaza and the west bank,

Israel is always, but always to blame, so what is the point to argue with

close minded, one track thinking people, unfortunately, it's not only about

the Palestinians and Israel, it has to do with the rise of libertarian, left PC

new age people that can only see what they want to see and the hell

with the truth....

Zionists are the invaders, ethnic cleansers and occupiers...not the other way around. The Palestinian demonstrators are the ones who have been ethnically cleansed.

 

But the great Israeli hoax is always to play the victim..."I stole your land. I herded you into Gaza. You now have the audacity to want to come back to your homes. Sorry I'm going to have to shoot you. Now look what you made me do!"

[dexterm]

6 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Really, a Palestinian farmer picking parsley among 30,000 unruly mob?

did you really fall for that? well, it in fact it wasn't a farmer, it was a one

year old baby in a stroller holding flowers in her tiny hands and she

was shot by the merciless Israeli soldier, now that a better narrative isn't it?...

Get up to speed...the murder of the farmer was 2 days ago before yesterday's demonstrations started.

[Morch]

47 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Learn to read more carefully and research the history of the conflict.

 

70% of the population in Gaza have parents or grandparents or they themselves were born in what is now Israel and were ethnically cleansed to Gaza in 1948. The Israeli soldiers firing at them have parents or grandparents who were not born in Israel. The Palestinians simply want to go home.

 

It's a clear cut case of mainly European colonialism and a minority apartheid regime trying to maintain its Jewish supremacy over a majority Palestinian population..

 

 

"The Israeli soldiers firing at them have parents or grandparents who were not born in Israel."

 

More of your alternative facts. Other than you not having any concrete information about said soldiers, but just spewing misleading generalizations - most Israelis of that age would have parents, and grandparents, who were born in Israel.

 

But thanks for exposing your true colors one more - you're not about peace or anything remotely resembling it, but about revenge, revisionism, and fantasy. Your ongoing de-legitimization crusade of Israel is dully noted - for the  next time you'll deny that's what you're about.

 

And no, there is no obligation for Israel to commit national suicide, other than in your dreams. Settling such issues is not necessarily done through turning back the hands of time, nor does refugee status apply for the nth' generation in any other case.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Morch

[JOC]

14 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Some members in this forum' topic has their minds fixed for along,

long time that no matter what will happen in the Gaza and the west bank,

Israel is always, but always to blame, so what is the point to argue with

close minded, one track thinking people, unfortunately, it's not only about

the Palestinians and Israel, it has to do with the rise of libertarian, left PC

new age people that can only see what they want to see and the hell

with the truth....

And the "truth" is to be presented by a member of the tribe?

I used to live and work in Israel a long time ago...only 3 years.....and was very pro Israel

Today not so...not because I am a 'libertarian, left PC new age person'.....But because you have to be totally blind not to see, what is going on in the country, I used to love.

Israel has turned into an apartheid state....acting with impunity in all their doings...because a strong tribal lobby in the US....

Of course Hamas are not boy-scouts...but desperate times call for desperate measures....The people in Gaza are living in a virtual prison...with half of their towns and infrastructure bombed back to the stone age by the Israelis ......And on the West Bank new settlements are being build as I type...in breach of all international law...But again Israel gets away with everything with impunity...

[malagateddy]

Zionists are the invaders, ethnic cleansers and occupiers...not the other way around. The Palestinian demonstrators are the ones who have been ethnically cleansed.
 
But the great Israeli hoax is always to play the victim..."I stole your land. I herded you into Gaza. You now have the audacity to want to come back to your homes. Sorry I'm going to have to shoot you. Now look what you made me do!"

Dexterm..can you remember the holocaust?
Dexterm..my late Beloved Father's Regiment had the very dubious honour of " liberating " Belson concentration camp.
When I was age to understand He told me of the horrible scenes he saw.
As I have stated before..the palestinian people have had countless amounts of money given to them.
Ever wondered where the money went..I suggest the thugs of Hamas

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[dexterm]

50 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Tell me why the peaceful palestinians do not rise up against a terrorist entity like hamas

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Hamas is one of the few organisations legitimately (by international law) resisting the illegal occupier and invader - the terrorist state of Israel, which has much better credentials for the epithet...1000s of innocent children and civilians murdered, imprisoned and tortured over the last 70 years.

You can see Israeli terrorist handiwork in the OP...16 killed in cold blood and 1000s injured. Not a scratch on the aggressors.

[Morch]

44 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Murder is when from behind a steel fence in an entrenched position a heavily protected sniper in no danger himself cold bloodedly decides which protestor he is going to select to kill in order to be a warning to others

 

No, that's more of your hyperbole and use of loaded terms. As anyone looking at those pics can tell, the "steel fence" you go on about is nothing special. Your keep going on about it to create a faux image. As for the Israeli soldiers not being in any danger - utter rubbish. A sniper or a missile from the other side could take them out, their positions are in no way "heavily fortified" - it's just and earthen ramp.

 

Keep denying that not all protestors are unarmed, keep denying that there were no incidents of trying to carry out attacks under cover of the protests.

 

Do countries normally allow mass protest to escalate to the point of the mob rushing fences and troops? Or is that what you'd like to see?

[JimmyTheMook]

Sad that a forum about Thailand has become a proving ground for rabid anti-Semites.

 

 

[dexterm]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

No, that's more of your hyperbole and use of loaded terms. As anyone looking at those pics can tell, the "steel fence" you go on about is nothing special. Your keep going on about it to create a faux image. As for the Israeli soldiers not being in any danger - utter rubbish. A sniper or a missile from the other side could take them out, their positions are in no way "heavily fortified" - it's just and earthen ramp.

 

Keep denying that not all protestors are unarmed, keep denying that there were no incidents of trying to carry out attacks under cover of the protests.

 

Do countries normally allow mass protest to escalate to the point of the mob rushing fences and troops? Or is that what you'd like to see?

Do civilized countries ethnically cleanse part of the resident population (war crime!) because they are not the right religion, and herd them into a ghetto then shoot them in cold blood (war crime!) when they try to return home?

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

Don’t see how the Palestinian farmer who was killed fits your ‘Palestinian culture, mentality and social norms’-narrative to such an extent that it’s all too normal to legitimate such crimes...


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

I was obviously referring to the protests, and you're obviously feigning lack of comprehension in order to make a faux point. When it comes to protests, Palestinian seem unable to keep a lead on it, along the lines of what's generally accepted to be a non-violent, peaceful protest as most of us understand the term.

 

And as said, adopting a Palestinian version of events (re farmer) is  a choice. Not necessarily indisputable fact. 

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

Sad that a forum about Thailand has become a proving ground for rabid anti-Semites.

 

 

Anti certain Israeli politics is not the same as anti-semites.

 

I do find it sad that this card is played without merit, and without any comment on the actual topic.

[JOC]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

nor does refugee status apply for the nth' generation in any other case.

Oh the irony....

That is exactly the argument being used by the Jews for their "right" to the holy land....

A piece of concrete wall becomes 'The Temple'......And gives the people living in the diaspora (the nnnnnnnth generation) the right to return to "their" land.

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I would say 'some members have their minds fixed, Israel is never to blame. What is the point ...

 

So what do you think is the root cause of the problems here?

 

I think it goes further than that - posters who are so deeply entrenched in one-sides' narrative cannot even acknowledge any negative aspect of "their" side, and react to pretty much any opposing view (even if partial only) in a uniform manner.

 

The root of all problems is that people think that there's a single root to all the problems. It's a multifaceted conflict, and trying to paint it in black and white isn't helpful.

 

 

[dexterm]

4 minutes ago, JimmyTheMook said:

Sad that a forum about Thailand has become a proving ground for rabid anti-Semites.

 

 

The forum is "World News" for people some of whom live in Thailand..that's me.

 

Please point out anything that is anti Semitic in this thread. Put up or shut up. 

[Morch]

22 minutes ago, Elfin said:

The only time I have seen heads butting against a concrete wall was at the Western wall :)

 

How can the heavily armed IDF justify the use of live bullets against unarmed civilians? The Palestinians are well in their rights to demand to return to their land and homes.

BDS.

 

 

Sounds like you've ever been to a mosque at prayer time. Yeah, floor, I know...

 

Not all of the Palestinian participating in the protest were unarmed, not all are civilians. Making them wholesale assertions is one way of painting things this way or that. Not much said by posters regarding how better to handle such protests (other than the political waffle - which is irrelevant to the concrete question raised).

 

The Palestinian do not have an undisputed right to return. That's another slogan. Israel is not  obligated to commit national suicide in order to satisfy posters' politics.

 

And you've got an errant D stuck in the middle of the off topic BS.

 

 

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Zionists are the invaders, ethnic cleansers and occupiers...not the other way around. The Palestinian demonstrators are the ones who have been ethnically cleansed.

 

But the great Israeli hoax is always to play the victim..."I stole your land. I herded you into Gaza. You now have the audacity to want to come back to your homes. Sorry I'm going to have to shoot you. Now look what you made me do!"

 

That is your version of putting things, rather than the undisputed truth, or even fact. Your made up quotes are pathetic as your inability/unwillingness to address the conflict in an extreme partisan manner

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Get up to speed...the murder of the farmer was 2 days ago before yesterday's demonstrations started.

 

You are apparently mixing incidents. What is referred to took place the night before the protest commenced.

[JOC]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

You are apparently mixing incidents. What is referred to took place the night before the protest commenced.

And that makes it kosher...?...

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Do civilized countries ethnically cleanse part of the resident population (war crime!) because they are not the right religion, and herd them into a ghetto then shoot them in cold blood (war crime!) when they try to return home?

 

 

Yeah, well...that's what I mean about you not being able (or rather, unwilling) to discuss anything other than on the propaganda level.

 

There's a situation at hand - mass protests, not of the peaceful variety, with a potential to quickly escalate. I'm pointing out that, with regard to response, most countries would not allow protests to storm the fence/border. Your response - bringing up the history of the conflict.

 

That's all very well if you want to score virtual points, but doesn't really address the question raised.

 

There is a context to why the Gaza Strip is blockaded - which you ignore. There is no obligation on Israel's part to commit national suicide to satisfy your politics. There is even no obligation to let the Palestinian cross the fence at will - other than in your propaganda posts.

 

[ezzra]

32 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I would say 'some members have their minds fixed, Israel is never to blame. What is the point ...

 

So what do you think is the root cause of the problems here?

There's no easy answer to that, from an Israeli security perspective, they can't allowed anymore Arab/Muslim country so close to their main cities whereby

Iran, IS, Hezbollah or Taliban will gain a foothold just few KM from

Tel Aviv and every other city in Israel, it's a very difficult situation to manage,

and no one is budging here, the Arabs want nothing less than to see israel

and all the Jews gone and so many other millions of people around the world

who hate Israel and Jews with a passion, the only solution here is to keep

the status quo where each keeps to their borders, but the palestinians

will not have a bar of it, they still cling to the dreams of returning to their

old homes at ANY COSTS OF LIVES and prolonged misery and poverty......

[dexterm]

10 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Sounds like you've ever been to a mosque at prayer time. Yeah, floor, I know...

 

Not all of the Palestinian participating in the protest were unarmed, not all are civilians. Making them wholesale assertions is one way of painting things this way or that. Not much said by posters regarding how better to handle such protests (other than the political waffle - which is irrelevant to the concrete question raised).

 

The Palestinian do not have an undisputed right to return. That's another slogan. Israel is not  obligated to commit national suicide in order to satisfy posters' politics.

 

And you've got an errant D stuck in the middle of the off topic BS.

 

 

>>The Palestinian do not have an undisputed right to return. That's another slogan. Israel is not  obligated to commit national suicide in order to satisfy posters' politics.
..Wrong! Palestinians do have that right. Which is exactly what they are demonstrating in the OP.

It's not a slogan; its international law.

 

"The right of return is a principle in international law which guarantees peoples right of voluntary return to or re-enter their country of origin or of citizenship. A right of return based on nationality, citizenship or ancestry may be enshrined in a country's constitution or law, and some countries deny a right of return in particular cases or in general.

The right is formulated in several modern treaties and conventions, most notably in the 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the 1966 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the 1948 Fourth Geneva Convention. The Geneva Conventions, it has been argued, have passed into customary international law and that the right of return is binding on non-signatories to the conventions."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return

 

>>Israel is not obligated to commit national suicide
...that's Morchspeak for Israel reserves the right to maintain its minority apartheid religionist supremacy over the majority non Jewish Palestinian population.

[sukhumvitneon]

"Immigrants and refugees for thee but not for me"

 

The Jewish/Israeli mantra.

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, JOC said:

Oh the irony....

That is exactly the argument being used by the Jews for their "right" to the holy land....

A piece of concrete wall becomes 'The Temple'......And gives the people living in the diaspora (the nnnnnnnth generation) the right to return to "their" land.

 

The recognition of Jews as refugees was limited to post-war time. There was no international recognition of refugee-by-inheritance status as is applied to the Palestinians.