Israeli forces kill 16 Palestinians in Gaza border protests - Gaza medics

[dexterm]

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

So storming the border, what do you think they thought was gonna happen? Excessive force is one thing and that's not good, but same question. Storming the border. Armed soldiers. Get real. 

"Although most protesters stayed in the encampments, some groups of youths ignored organisers' calls to stay away from the fence and headed closer to Israeli positions.

The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) said troops fired "towards the main instigators" during rioting in which petrol bombs and stones were thrown."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43611859

 

When this happens, it's the shoot to kill policy I object to. It is the IDF standing order that has come from the higher ranks giving snipers carte blanche to select a target and kill him in cold blood sometimes in the back as a warning to others...that's murder. That's a war crime.

 

There's a whole arsenal of crowd control weaponry, much of it developed by Israel for export around the world.

Rubber bullets
capsicum spray
tear gas
stun grenades
The non-lethal claymore
Pain Ray
Plasma shield.
Shotgun tasers
40mm sponge grenades.
Rubber ball hand grenade
High-Capacity Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) Dispenser
..and more...

 

Try google and google images: non lethal crowd control weapons, such as
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-8-most-painful-non-lethal-weapons-2015-10?IR=T

 

Wouldn't Israel be smarter to use some of these. Would attract much less negative PR and calls for UN investigations into use of disproportionate force.

 

It's as though Israel wants to provoke Hamas into firing futile rockets again, so that Israel can send in the planes, tanks, and artillery once more to "mow the lawn" as they call it.

 

[Morch]

9 hours ago, dexterm said:

As usual a mountain of obfuscatory hogwash.

 

I simply replied to an ill-informed poster that the border protesters were approaching was not an officially recognized border, and that in essence that was what the whole dispute was about...Israel refusing the right of people who were born in what is now Israel to return there.

 

In all your verbose baloney you have not denied the correctness of my simple statement that de facto disputable borders are not the same as officially recognised borders. Yes or no.

 

Instead you go on and on and on ad nauseam....accusing me of making a wholesale straw man claim about Israel's borders in general with other neighboring countries, when I am clearly talking specifically (and btw on topic unlike you) about the OP Gaza border where the OP demonstrations are. 

Then you throw in a bit of deflectionary whataboutery regarding other completely different countries' borders. 

Then go on and on and on about issues about Hamas and Egypt completed unrelated to my statement that the particular border the protesters were approaching is not something inviolably set in international statutes as the original poster would have us believe and how dare the protesters ignore it.

 

I see your MO now. You are just a filibuster who types endlessly rehashing and saying nothing new in the hope that the other poster will give up exhausted by your inane turgidness

 

Coming from someone inflicting repetitive rants and tirades on these topic, faux complaints about "filibusters", "endlessly rehashing" or " "turgidness" is both disingenuous and amusing. Thanks for the chuckle. Considering you're happy enough making a mountain out of molehill with this side argument - about as consistent a complaint as can be expected.

 

What you're on about is very simple - you wish to reserve the right to comment on other posters posts, yet often whine when yours are commented on or corrected. You go on, in length, about whatever side issue, then complain when others do so.

 

As explained several times, the point made was about the relevance and applicability of your "statement". That you insist on framing my response in another way is just another dishonest "debate" tactic. Not obliged to comment on your posts according to you misleading demands. I'm less obsessed with whether the border is "officially" recognized (whatever that means, even), you are.

 

With regard to the OP - You still haven't explained what is so significant about the border being "officially" recognized. And as for all them things you label "deflection" - they are known as reality. Pointing out that disputed borders are not a rarity, is relevant. Pointing out that two sides need to agree on a border - is relevant. Pointing out that Hamas does not even "officially" recognize Israel - relevant. Pointing out that, despite this, Hamas is party to the understandings and does, de-facto, recognize the border - also relevant. Pointing out that Egypt both mediated these arrangements while applying the same (and worse) on its side of the border - relevant. You insisting on framing it as a faux yes/no question - is not relevant.

[Morch]

11 hours ago, dexterm said:

I suspect Morch you are in a world of your own with these ramblings. Even I don't understand what you are on about, let alone forum readers.

I think you should address points more succinctly with clear references and quotes.

 

 

Oh, I doubt you do not understand. That's just a clumsy way of avoiding the need to address relevant criticism.

 

You are quick to jump in, correcting and criticizing any bit, in posters words which doesn't fit your extreme views. When the same is applied to your posts, you throw faux tantrums and complain incessantly.

 

You have no issues putting forth one-sided, fact-light (or "alternative fact" rich) accounts of events, history and positions. When these "accounts" are called out or objected to, you whine. Others words are supposedly "mythology", yours an undisputed truth. 

 

You  claim to have addressed issues, when it fact you haven't even commented on or acknowledged. You constantly bring up new issues as a way to avoid anything uncomfortable for you to discuss. Then, when  these are countered, you simply ignore what you posted. Comments made were directly referenced and quoted - no need to overdo the lying.

 

 

 

[Morch]

11 hours ago, dexterm said:

As predicted Israel with the help of the dog whose tail it wags has rejected any independent and transparent inquiry into its murderous handiwork on the Gaza border. Par for the course for the only so called democracy in the Middle East with nothing to hide.

 

"The United States has blocked a draft statement by the United Nations Security Council that called for an investigation into the killing of 17 unarmed Palestinian protesters near the Gaza Strip's eastern border. 
The statement, which was proposed by Kuwait, demanded an "independent and transparent investigation" under international law into the bloody events on Friday's Land Day protests.
The statement also expressed "grave concern at the situation at the border" and stressed "the right to peaceful protest"."
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/04/blocks-unsc-statement-israel-force-land-day-180401054016894.html

 

'"Avigdor Lieberman, the Israeli defence minister, rejected criticism of Israel’s actions, saying soldiers along the Gaza frontier “deserve a medal” and did what was necessary to protect the border.

“As for a commission of inquiry - there won’t be one,” he told Israeli Army Radio."'

 

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN1H80YK

 

There is no compelling justification for holding such an international inquiry. There are far worse instances of violence that are not even officially commented upon by the UN and the UNSC, let along result in calls for international inquiries or such inquiries materializing.

 

The Al Jazeera  claim about all those killed being unarmed is factually incorrect, not that is stops you from quoting it.

 

[Morch]

10 hours ago, midas said:

waffle on  comes to mind 

 

Do remind me of your great contribution to this discussion?

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Nail hit squarely on head. And you have highlighted yet more pro-Israeli, anti-Palestinian dog whistling.

 

Sounds like you've just learned a new phrase (dog whistling), but still haven't fully grasped what it means and how to apply it. That, or simply trolling.

 

As with the previous comment - considering your "in depth" contribution to this topic, not particularly impressed.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, dexterm said:

"Although most protesters stayed in the encampments, some groups of youths ignored organisers' calls to stay away from the fence and headed closer to Israeli positions.

The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) said troops fired "towards the main instigators" during rioting in which petrol bombs and stones were thrown."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43611859

 

When this happens, it's the shoot to kill policy I object to. It is the IDF standing order that has come from the higher ranks giving snipers carte blanche to select a target and kill him in cold blood sometimes in the back as a warning to others...that's murder. That's a war crime.

 

There's a whole arsenal of crowd control weaponry, much of it developed by Israel for export around the world.

Rubber bullets
capsicum spray
tear gas
stun grenades
The non-lethal claymore
Pain Ray
Plasma shield.
Shotgun tasers
40mm sponge grenades.
Rubber ball hand grenade
High-Capacity Oleoresin Capsicum (OC) Dispenser
..and more...

 

Try google and google images: non lethal crowd control weapons, such as
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-8-most-painful-non-lethal-weapons-2015-10?IR=T

 

Wouldn't Israel be smarter to use some of these. Would attract much less negative PR and calls for UN investigations into use of disproportionate force.

 

It's as though Israel wants to provoke Hamas into firing futile rockets again, so that Israel can send in the planes, tanks, and artillery once more to "mow the lawn" as they call it.

 

 

Anyone looking at images and footage related to events can form a clearer take on what "some groups of youths" meant in reality. Quite the understatement there, intentional or otherwise.

 

As for "objecting" you "object" to pretty much anything Israel does, nothing new about that. If it was just tear  gas, you'd whine about that as well. The casualties serve as extra fuel for your vehemence and bile, that's the difference. Before going on about "mind-reading" or some-such, realize that this is not the first instance this is discussed.

 

Would you prefer a milder response, quite possibly resulting in a mass rushing of the fence - which would have ended up in far more casualties? Because, no mistake - that is a realistic scenario.

 

And do you have any complaints whatsoever directed at Hamas leaders stocking up the flames in speech and statements as the protest began? Nah, that's perfectly acceptable. Palestinian leaders are never responsible for anything, in your book, nor do they ever make cynical use of their public. Right-O. The usual one-sided drivel.

 

Your second link does not even mention Israel in any way. On the other hand, there's this:

 

Israeli Watchdog Warned That Army Was Unprepared for Big Gaza Protest

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-watchdog-warned-army-was-unprepared-for-big-gaza-protest-1.5964097

 

Kinda telling the only provocation you see here is by Israel.

 

[dexterm]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

There is no compelling justification for holding such an international inquiry. There are far worse instances of violence that are not even officially commented upon by the UN and the UNSC, let along result in calls for international inquiries or such inquiries materializing.

 

The Al Jazeera  claim about all those killed being unarmed is factually incorrect, not that is stops you from quoting it.

 

You allege this is all Hamas's provocation, that the youths were armed although all I've seen is some burning tyres and slingshots that would not reach anywhere near the fence. You even claim shots were fired at the IDF.

 

Wouldn't the independent transparent inquiry that Israel has outright rejected shed some light on these alleged facts from both sides? 

 

The only so called democracy in the Middle East surely has nothing to hide?

Edited April 2, 2018 by dexterm

[Jingthing]

This article is very damning to the IDF and the Israeli government. I don't see how anyone can defend shooting people in the back fleeing the scene, if intentional of course.

 

That said, it still doesn't follow that storming towards the border with whatever weapons some of them had or didn't have (burning tires doesn't strike me as peaceful) is a wise tactic, or that bad behavior from the IDF somehow follows that Israel should just commit national suicide and stop defending her borders.

 

Should there be an investigation and bad behaving IDF soldiers punished? Probably. Will there be? No. 

 

More violence to come. 

 

 

Quote

For Israel, there’s little political cost to killing Palestinians

http://www.paywallnews.com/news/Analysis-|-For-Israel--there’s-little-political-cost-to-killing-Palestinians.H1xdba41iM.html

Edited April 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[dexterm]

 

Published by Israel's oldest newspaper Haaretz.

 

A 19 year old shot in the back of the head hundreds of meters from and running away from the fence in Friday's demonstration. Cold blooded murder.

This is the evil regime that Zionist apologists on this forum repeatedly defend. Shame on the Israeli cowards.

 

 

[Jingthing]

As referenced in the article I posted before, the Palestinians have scored a propaganda victory with these recent events. Another reason as I said before aside from humanitarian concerns it's in Israel's best interest to avoid such overkill situations. It appears that they didn't and there will be a price. Not politically within Israel, but international PR, already not a strength.

 

Pretty darned stupid. 

 

At the very least now that this has happened, you would think they would do an emergency correction and focus much more on non-lethal defense in these kind of situations as these kind of situations ain't over.

 

I guess there probably isn't much hope of that either. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[Morch]

3 hours ago, dexterm said:

You allege this is all Hamas's provocation, that the youths were armed although all I've seen is some burning tyres and slingshots that would not reach anywhere near the fence. You even claim shots were fired at the IDF.

 

Wouldn't the independent transparent inquiry that Israel has outright rejected shed some light on these alleged facts from both sides? 

 

The only so called democracy in the Middle East surely has nothing to hide?

 

What is it with you and twisting words? I never claimed it was all Hamas's provocation. I have clearly stated in a few posts that the organizers are not members of the Hamas. I have pointed out that there was a difference between how they envisaged the protest, and what Hamas made of it. Some of the articles linked (even by yourself) clearly said that protestors were asked (by organizers) to stay away from the fence. Compare this with Hamas leaders' fiery speeches calling for the opposite at the morning of the protest. You wish to deny Hamas hijacked this protest, go ahead.

 

That there were armed protestors is a fact. Pictures were published and I believe appear in some of the links on this topic. What "you've seen" means less than nothing, considering your previous denial (despite Hamas owning up to it) of protestors killed being Hamas military wing operatives. Some of them were killed while firing at IDF soldiers - Hamas acknowledged that as well, there are pictures and clips. You choose to deny. Whatever.

 

Still haven't provided any basis for such international investigation. These aren't the norm, and aren't all that often called for (and rarely materialize) even on worse instances. Why should this one be treated otherwise? Seeing the UN track of anti-Israeli sentiment and decisions, why would Israel expect such an investigation to be even-handed?

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Morch

[Morch]

25 minutes ago, dexterm said:

 

Published by Israel's oldest newspaper Haaretz.

 

A 19 year old shot in the back of the head hundreds of meters from and running away from the fence in Friday's demonstration. Cold blooded murder.

This is the evil regime that Zionist apologists on this forum repeatedly defend. Shame on the Israeli cowards.

 

 

 

Milk it for all it's worth.

And while at it lump together all criticism and differing view, and package them in way suitable for a bash.

Of course, you're not even nearly as vehement whenever a Palestinian does something of the sort, but eh...

 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Milk it for all it's worth.

And while at it lump together all criticism and differing view, and package them in way suitable for a bash.

Of course, you're not even nearly as vehement whenever a Palestinian does something of the sort, but eh...

 

So true, but Israel overreacting this way is an own goal for the people that already don't want Israel to exist. 

[Morch]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

As referenced in the article I posted before, the Palestinians have scored a propaganda victory with these recent events. Another reason as I said before aside from humanitarian concerns it's in Israel's best interest to avoid such overkill situations. It appears that they didn't and there will be a price. Not politically within Israel, but international PR, already not a strength.

 

Pretty darned stupid. 

 

The article you linked says a lot of things. Among them a more nuanced assessment of how this may effect Israel's image and international relations. Hard not to notice that compared to previous instances, there responses are relatively mild. Especially within the Arab and Muslim world.

 

Not that this will do Israel any favors, and it may be "pretty darned stupid", but perhaps not as damaging as it could have been. On the other hand, there's still a long time to go until 15 may, so making pronouncements on how this will pan out is a bit of a mugs game.

 

I think one of the main concerns by the IDF was a scenario in which a huge mob does rush the fence. What then? Shoot them all? Even is possible, would be worse than now. What if they breach the fence? etc. Doesn't seem that there are good answers for these concerns.

 

Israel would have been criticized anyway - so perhaps it was a choice: live with the criticism, and prevent a worse scenario.

[Jingthing]

Good points. Hard choices. But still a big international PR loss, however you slice it. 

I do think if a mob actually breached past the border, most of the world would think an extreme reaction was justified, but that might mean possibly large Israeli casualties, obviously not something Israeli politicos would want to deal with internally. 

 

This is a war scenario of sorts. PR is a big part of it. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Jingthing

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So true, but Israel overreacting this way is an own goal for the people that already don't want Israel to exist. 

 

The "people that already don't want Israel to exist" would not change their views, regardless of action taken or not taken. The "own goal" scored is more with those undecided, or those who's support is perhaps conditional or wavering. It is a wonder, though, how Israel can't get a proper handle on the PR front. For a country often hailed for innovation, creativity and whatnot on other fields, seems quite dismal when it comes to figuring out this part.

[Jingthing]

Just now, Morch said:

 

The "people that already don't want Israel to exist" would not change their views, regardless of action taken or not taken. The "own goal" scored is more with those undecided, or those who's support is perhaps conditional or wavering. It is a wonder, though, how Israel can't get a proper handle on the PR front. For a country often hailed for innovation, creativity and whatnot on other fields, seems quite dismal when it comes to figuring out this part.

Well said, but I'd like to add the hard core Israel demonizers are always trying to convert people. This kind of stuff helps them do that. 

[Rimmer]

An Off topic argumentative baiting post removed

[metisdead]

An off topic trolling post has now been removed. 

 

Forum Netiquette:

 

7. Please do not post off-topic responses in an attempt to hijack the thread. Such posts will be deleted. 

[dexterm]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Milk it for all it's worth.

And while at it lump together all criticism and differing view, and package them in way suitable for a bash.

Of course, you're not even nearly as vehement whenever a Palestinian does something of the sort, but eh...

 

Your indifferent attitude ("Milk it for all its worth")to seeing a young man shot in the back of the head cold bloodedly when no threat to the IDF speaks volumes about you and the evil regime you continually defend.

 

A picture speaks a thousand words. As these images of atrocities and the brutal Israeli illegal occupation proliferate in this era of instant social and international media, the global community will begin to realize the enormous injustice being perpetrated against the majority indigenous population of Palestine.

Israel gets such bad PR because it creates it and deserves it.

[dexterm]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

There is no compelling justification for holding such an international inquiry. There are far worse instances of violence that are not even officially commented upon by the UN and the UNSC, let along result in calls for international inquiries or such inquiries materializing.

 

The Al Jazeera  claim about all those killed being unarmed is factually incorrect, not that is stops you from quoting it.

 

>>There is no compelling justification for holding such an international inquiry.
...says who? There's the fence sitting obfuscatory language again..."no compelling reason" which is Morchspeak for yes there is a reason (the UN thought so at least), but you and Israel prefer it didn't happen.

Then you continue to muddy the waters with a touch of deflectionary whataboutery. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

This is your job:  to try to sweep things under the carpet.

 

But investigation or not, I am sure the global community and many a foreign government take note of Israel's behavior yesterday and today. And if their consciences aren't pricked by Israel's atrocities their younger voters' will be.

 

The tide is turning and the truth will out.

Edited April 2, 2018 by dexterm

[dexterm]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The "people that already don't want Israel to exist" would not change their views, regardless of action taken or not taken. The "own goal" scored is more with those undecided, or those who's support is perhaps conditional or wavering. It is a wonder, though, how Israel can't get a proper handle on the PR front. For a country often hailed for innovation, creativity and whatnot on other fields, seems quite dismal when it comes to figuring out this part.

When you repress a majority indigenous Palestinian population in a brutal illegal occupation for 50 years with all the cruel apparatus of apartheid, then to add insult to injury murder them when they protest as they did yesterday, there's not much of a feel good story left that Israel can spin into positive PR.

Edited April 2, 2018 by dexterm

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Your indifferent attitude ("Milk it for all its worth")to seeing a young man shot in the back of the head cold bloodedly when no threat to the IDF speaks volumes about you and the evil regime you continually defend.

 

A picture speaks a thousand words. As these images of atrocities and the brutal Israeli illegal occupation proliferate in this era of instant social and international media, the global community will begin to realize the enormous injustice being perpetrated against the majority indigenous population of Palestine.

Israel gets such bad PR because it creates it and deserves it.

 

Indifferent as in not gushing faux emotive nonsense like you do? I never go there. Not everyone's into drama. Try not to push it too far, sonny - I've had friends who died, some way younger than they ought to. I'm no stranger to pain, just not into exploiting it scoring points on political debates in internet forums. Obviously, you feel that's the ticket. Up to you.

 

A picture does speak a thousands words. Although it doesn't always tell the whole story, or even the right story. Some posters are quite creative with their misuse of such. That Israel is obviously behind the curve on this is true - and somewhat baffling.

 

As for your repeated predictions regarding international public opinion, you've been airing these since you joined the forum. I don't think that in practice there was any dramatic change on this front. 

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>There is no compelling justification for holding such an international inquiry.
...says who? There's the fence sitting obfuscatory language again..."no compelling reason" which is Morchspeak for yes there is a reason (the UN thought so at least), but you and Israel prefer it didn't happen.

Then you continue to muddy the waters with a touch of deflectionary whataboutery. Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

This is your job:  to try to sweep things under the carpet.

 

But investigation or not, I am sure the global community and many a foreign government take note of Israel's behavior yesterday and today. And if their consciences aren't pricked by Israel's atrocities their younger voters' will be.

 

The tide is turning and the truth will out.

 

Are such motions a routine practice with regard to incidents such as this? Were many of them approved? Why should Israel be put to a different standard? Much worse than that doesn't even result in simple resolution, let alone an inquiry. So once more, with sugar on top - why does this merit an international investigation, in light of other, worse instances not being subjected to one?

 

I do not muddy the waters, nor deflect. It is no secret that the UN is essentially a political body and a political arena. It is no secret that it is usually stacked against Israel - you'll say righteously so, I'll say a whole lot of politics involved.

 

As for two wrongs not making a right, your whole body of posting revolves around the opposite. Try being at least marginally consistent, if you can.

 

And as pointed out previously, your declarations of tides etc. do not exactly correspond to actual responses. Years past such events would have drown a much stronger reaction.

[Morch]

29 minutes ago, dexterm said:

When you repress a majority indigenous Palestinian population in a brutal illegal occupation for 50 years with all the cruel apparatus of apartheid, then to add insult to injury murder them when they protest as they did yesterday, there's not much of a feel good story left that Israel can spin into positive PR.

 

Well, that's your version of the "story". It is unbalanced, narrow, and inflammatory. It is not indisputable truth, nor gospel. And if bringing up spins, it is a negative one. The point made was about Israel being surprisingly lame addressing the story-telling angle. Would have expected them to be better at it.

[dexterm]

19 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Indifferent as in not gushing faux emotive nonsense like you do? I never go there. Not everyone's into drama. Try not to push it too far, sonny - I've had friends who died, some way younger than they ought to. I'm no stranger to pain, just not into exploiting it scoring points on political debates in internet forums. Obviously, you feel that's the ticket. Up to you.

 

A picture does speak a thousands words. Although it doesn't always tell the whole story, or even the right story. Some posters are quite creative with their misuse of such. That Israel is obviously behind the curve on this is true - and somewhat baffling.

 

As for your repeated predictions regarding international public opinion, you've been airing these since you joined the forum. I don't think that in practice there was any dramatic change on this front. 

Times are changing. From an Israeli PM who once said There is no such thing as Palestinians, to their flag,  that once incurred a prison sentence in Israel, now flying outside the UN.

 

I could list hundreds of individuals and groups who are aware of the injustice done to Palestinians, many founded by Israeli, European and American Jews who are appalled by the war crimes of the Israeli government committed in their name. And awareness of the truth is growing exponentially especially as a result of repeatedly stupid decisions by Israel such as yesterday's OTT handling of the demonstration.

[Morch]

19 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Times are changing. From an Israeli PM who once said There is no such thing as Palestinians, to their flag,  that once incurred a prison sentence in Israel, now flying outside the UN.

 

I could list hundreds of individuals and groups who are aware of the injustice done to Palestinians, many founded by Israeli, European and American Jews who are appalled by the war crimes of the Israeli government committed in their name. And awareness of the truth is growing exponentially especially as a result of repeatedly stupid decisions by Israel such as yesterday's OTT handling of the demonstration.

 

Yes, and that took....how many years? Whereas, if the Palestinians would have chosen peace to begin with, they'd be in a way better place nowadays (minus a whole lot of suffering). Surely you had a point there, somewhere.

 

There are many organizations supportive of the Palestinians. Of course, not all of them fully subscribe to your version of the "story", or the bile filled, vehement bellicose style of delivery you employ. And, more importantly, not all of them identify with your extreme ideas as to appropriate solutions and their mode of application. That's just you doing the routine co-opting bit.

 

I have no doubt that Israel will take a PR hit, and I'm sure events will be exploited to the max (that's somewhat of their raison d'etre for certain parties). That it would result in a major shift, though - you've made the very same prediction on numerous past occasions.

 

There seems to be some illusion in your post that the conflict will be resolved without the Palestinian side having to give up or compromise on any claims, not exhibit a change of attitude, and not be held accountable for anything. Not being into drama, I'd say it will require quite a bit of these, and even then - it will not be the sort of rosy, happily ever after kinda peace. Better than the current situation, but not quite what you're selling.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Morch

[dexterm]

41 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Are such motions a routine practice with regard to incidents such as this? Were many of them approved? Why should Israel be put to a different standard? Much worse than that doesn't even result in simple resolution, let alone an inquiry. So once more, with sugar on top - why does this merit an international investigation, in light of other, worse instances not being subjected to one?

 

I do not muddy the waters, nor deflect. It is no secret that the UN is essentially a political body and a political arena. It is no secret that it is usually stacked against Israel - you'll say righteously so, I'll say a whole lot of politics involved.

 

As for two wrongs not making a right, your whole body of posting revolves around the opposite. Try being at least marginally consistent, if you can.

 

And as pointed out previously, your declarations of tides etc. do not exactly correspond to actual responses. Years past such events would have drown a much stronger reaction.

Enough of your whataboutery. Why should Israel be exempt from criticism? Please provide a list of all the world problems you believe must be solved before we are allowed to discuss Palestinian suffering.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to injustice everywhere." (Martin Luther King, Jr)

 

The only reason that Israel has got away with murder for so long is the powerful Zionist lobby groups in the USA and Europe.
 But it won't always be that way. Younger voters, aided by the IT revolution, are beginning to see through the sins of their parents' generation.

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Enough of your whataboutery. Why should Israel be exempt from criticism? Please provide a list of all the world problems you believe must be solved before we are allowed to discuss Palestinian suffering.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to injustice everywhere." (Martin Luther King, Jr)

 

The only reason that Israel has got away with murder for so long is the powerful Zionist lobby groups in the USA and Europe.
 But it won't always be that way. Younger voters, aided by the IT revolution, are beginning to see through the sins of their parents' generation.

 

 

Whataboutery how? Why should a double standard be accepted without question? And no one said Israel should be exempt from criticism. I do not need nor intend to provide you with any such inane list, and no one prevents you from discussing Palestinian suffering. Care to make up more dreamed up nonsense?

 

Like it or not, there are worse regimes than Israel, there are many violent instances far worse than the OP - which do not get the amount of "attention" Israel does. Some of them are right next door. So once more, pretty please with sugar on top - why should Israel be singled out for different treatment?