London murder rate overtakes New York's

[webfact]

London murder rate overtakes New York's

 

A spike in violent crime in London saw more murders committed in the city in February and March than there were in New York, figures show.

 

So far in 2018, 46 people in London have been fatally stabbed, shot or injured compared to 50 in the US city.

 

But, while New York's rate month-on-month has decreased since January, London's is on the rise.

 

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-43610936

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2018-04-02

[mbamber]

And another youngster stabbed and in a critical condition yesterday nearly one a day now.

[bert bloggs]

I was reading this and looking at the pictures of the people involved ,i could not help noticing that very few are what you would call "native British people " wonder if it has something to do with uncontroled immegration to my old country? sorry if i am not PC and do not wish to appear racist ,or any of the other things one gets accused of these days for daring to speak.

[Lungstib]

With London one of the worlds best examples of the gulf between rich and poor this is the inevitable result. Cant get guns, use a knife, acid, anything to give an edge. 

[darksidedog]

And my family keep asking me why I dont want to come home! Very sad to see London up there with New York. Even sadder, is that I dont see things getting better any time soon.

[HLover]

27 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

wonder if it has something to do with uncontroled immegration to my old country? sorry if i am not PC

No need to say you're sorry mate. And there's also no use in wondering if it's part of the problem, due to the pictures and the rise in statistics its obviously the problem. 

The biggest shame is the powers-that-be could care less obviously, treasonous <deleted> and turncoat split tails.

[Expatthailover]

1 hour ago, bert bloggs said:

I was reading this and looking at the pictures of the people involved ,i could not help noticing that very few are what you would call "native British people " wonder if it has something to do with uncontroled immegration to my old country? sorry if i am not PC and do not wish to appear racist ,or any of the other things one gets accused of these days for daring to speak.

Were the Krays and the Richardsons in the 60's 'immegrants'?

To clearly imply that there is a correlation between being native born and white and serious crime followed by 'not wish to sound racist' is at best preposterous and at worst xenophobic.

Amazing that you left the confines of 'your old country'. All those lovely law abiding white folk....swoon.

To be surrounded by non whites and in the main non English speakers must be a terrible ordeal for you. 

Edited April 2, 2018 by Ron19
Grammar police comment removed

[HLover]

1 hour ago, Expatthailover said:

Were the Krays and the Richardsons in the 60's 'immegrants'?

To clearly imply that there is a correlation between being native born and white and serious crime followed by 'not wish to sound racist' is at best preposterous and at worst xenophobic.

Amazing that you left the confines of 'your old country'. All those lovely law abiding white folk....swoon.

To be surrounded by non whites and in the main non English speakers must be a terrible ordeal for you. 

The rise in extremist immigration obviously has had an effect with regards to the increase in crime.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Ron19
Grammar police comment removed

[mbamber]

6 minutes ago, Expatthailover said:

'Immegrants'

Native Brits is all better educated innit!

In many places in the UK we are seeing 4th or 5th generation 'immegrants' but for your sort they still don't count.

Were the Krays and the Richardsons in the 60's 'immegrants'?

To clearly imply that there is a correlation between being native born and white and serious crime followed by 'not wish to sound racist' is at best preposterous and at worst xenophobic.

Amazing that you left the confines of 'your old country'. All those lovely law abiding white folk....swoon.

To be surrounded by non whites and in the main non English speakers must be a terrible ordeal for you. 

I never left and most is Mass immigration and there believe when they are young they are invincible and it is carrying over to the so called whites so not a racist comment.

 

[impulse]

I'd have to drill down in the stats before I'd get concerned for my own safety. 

 

What are the odds that a middle class, conservative behaving white guy with a decent job and a house in the 'burbs, who doesn't drink, doesn't chase women and is usually in bed by 10:00 PM being a victim?  In the USA, pretty close to nil- according to FBI statistics about race and location when it comes to becoming a murder victim.  I suspect it's similar in London.  Don't get involved in illegal activities, or associate with dodgy people, or wander around drunk in the wee hours, or hit on other guys' wives, and you're probably pretty safe.

 

Not that the increase in murder rate is acceptable, regardless of what demographic is suffering for it.  But, like genocide in Sub Saharan Africa, as deplorable as it may be- it doesn't put me at risk, and there isn't a thing I can do about it.

 

I'd add a comment about those crazy Brits needing better gun control, but...well...gun control may not be the panacea that some people seem to think it will.

 

Edit:  BTW, I think the FBI stats about race being a big factor in the murder rate should go one step further and correlate it to economic status, which I believe is the underlying driver, as opposed to race itself.  But I stand to be corrected.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by impulse

[simple1]

18 minutes ago, impulse said:

I'd have to drill down in the stats before I'd get concerned for my own safety. 

 

What are the odds that a middle class, conservative behaving white guy with a decent job and a house in the 'burbs, who doesn't drink, doesn't chase women and is usually in bed by 10:00 PM being a victim?  In the USA, pretty close to nil- according to FBI statistics about race and location when it comes to becoming a murder victim.  I suspect it's similar in London.  Don't get involved in illegal activities, or associate with dodgy people, or wander around drunk in the wee hours, or hit on other guys' wives, and you're probably pretty safe.

 

Not that the increase in murder rate is acceptable, regardless of what demographic is suffering for it.  But, like genocide in Sub Saharan Africa, as deplorable as it may be- it doesn't put me at risk, and there isn't a thing I can do about it.

 

I'd add a comment about those crazy Brits needing better gun control, but...well...gun control may not be the panacea that some people seem to think it will.

 

Non hysterical media point out the rise in stabbing deaths in London is mostly related to gang violence, most victims being younger males.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/london-stabbings-knife-crime-deaths-murders-three-days-teenagers-statistics-a8281756.html

 

No mention of 'extremists', as alleged by the usual members, for the reporting period.

 

HMG stats for crime by ethnic group below, a very big majority of victims are non white...

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/663376/race-cjs-2016-infographic.pdf

 

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by simple1

[Ron19]

An off topic post and an answer to it have been removed.

Two posts containing grammar police comments have been edited.

 

3. If possible please proofread your post first, poor grammar and spelling can make the post difficult to understand. However be aware that not every member is a native English speaker and excessive posts regarding others spelling and grammar not only hijacks the topic but is poor netiquette.

 

 

[Sir Dude]

Not a surprise this really. It's been going downhill for a long time now and it's only going to get worse, especially in the cities. With immigration out-of-control and so many getting in who shouldn't, the disintegration of society's values coupled with the indifference of the "me" culture and a weak/absent law & enforcement service, it is slowly becoming a modern day dystopia in many places. I recently visited the UK and the only places that seem not to be screwed are the areas outside the cities that are too expensive for the garbage to move out to. 

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Sir Dude said:

Not a surprise this really. It's been going downhill for a long time now and it's only going to get worse, especially in the cities. With immigration out-of-control and so many getting in who shouldn't, the disintegration of society's values coupled with the indifference of the "me" culture and a weak/absent law & enforcement service, it is slowly becoming a modern day dystopia in many places. I recently visited the UK and the only places that seem not to be screwed are the areas outside the cities that are too expensive for the garbage to move out to. 

 

Perhaps the real cause isn't immigration, but the increasing concentration of wealth that deprives the masses of a path to the middle class?  That "garbage" you refer to used to have a path out- real or mirage.  Today, a lot more of them realize they don't.

 

Of course, immigration of low cost labor is part of that scenario, but blaming it on the huddled masses is exactly what the real perpetrators want.   Blame it on the 1% who want to perpetuate that flow of low wage labor.  Cha Ching!

 

[samran]

Immigrants complaining about immigrants right here on TV? Who would have thunk it? I guess it’s still 1 April in some parts of the world....

[observer90210]

Some real weird comments here.....one can see highly dignified brown skinned people in London spending 600 £ on their groceries at Fortnum & Mason and on the other hand observe (from a safe distance) 2 cockneys bashing their drunken brains off in some gutter near a seedy pub....

 

.......making scapegoats of brown skinned people seems quite stupid as the high rise of murders is obviously due to the social discrepancies, crime involvement (no matter what the skin colour)  and has nothing to do with the origins or the colour of the perpetrators....racism and stupidity seem to be twins...

Edited April 2, 2018 by observer90210

[Sir Dude]

18 minutes ago, samran said:

Immigrants complaining about immigrants right here on TV? Who would have thunk it? I guess it’s still 1 April in some parts of the world....

There are two types of immigration, the right type and the wrong type. Both the UK and Thailand (amongst many other places) both suffer from the later type.

[nausea]

5 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

the high rise of murders is obviously due to the social discrepancies

The fact that under the old stop and search regime knife crime was falling was just a statistical glitch then.

 

Interestingly one of the links included this little snippet:

 

"There will be a “significant increase” in targeted stop and searches by police in London as part of efforts to combat rising violent crime, Sadiq Khan has said."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/sadiq-khan-stop-search-london-crime-plan-violence-police-metropolitan-stabbings-acid-murder-moped-a8152371.html

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Lungstib said:

With London one of the worlds best examples of the gulf between rich and poor this is the inevitable result. Cant get guns, use a knife, acid, anything to give an edge. 

 

Unless there were dramatic changes, London didn't make the cut, whereas New York did:

 

Top 20 major cities with the highest income inequality in 2016

https://blog.euromonitor.com/2017/10/income-inequality-ranking-worlds-major-cities.html

 

[lovelomsak]

49 minutes ago, impulse said:

Perhaps the real cause isn't immigration, but the increasing concentration of wealth that deprives the masses of a path to the middle class?  That "garbage" you refer to used to have a path out- real or mirage.  Today, a lot more of them realize they don't.

 This leaves me with a question about immigration.

  Why have immigrants come in to a country when there is a problem already  with wealth distribution ?  If the mass's are poor and do have proper work or wages how can they hope to support immigrants? So we are back to immigration is a big part of the problem huh.

[Morch]

2 hours ago, Expatthailover said:

Were the Krays and the Richardsons in the 60's 'immegrants'?

To clearly imply that there is a correlation between being native born and white and serious crime followed by 'not wish to sound racist' is at best preposterous and at worst xenophobic.

Amazing that you left the confines of 'your old country'. All those lovely law abiding white folk....swoon.

To be surrounded by non whites and in the main non English speakers must be a terrible ordeal for you. 

 

This ain't the 60's, though.

And, regardless of the auto-labeling: provided the correlation does exist, would it still be "racist" to comment about it? To be clear, I'm not making a strong claim here - didn't delve into the figures, and anyway sorting out some of the details isn't straightforward. Question more to do with discussion.

Edited April 2, 2018 by Morch

[impulse]

35 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

 This leaves me with a question about immigration.

  Why have immigrants come in to a country when there is a problem already  with wealth distribution ?  If the mass's are poor and do have proper work or wages how can they hope to support immigrants? So we are back to immigration is a big part of the problem huh.

 

To the extent that corporations have been able to drive wages down by keeping the doors open to more new immigrants than they can create jobs for, yes.  Immigration policy is part of the problem.  And it's going to get worse as automation, technology and offshoring shrinks the number of decent paying jobs available to a growing pool of job seekers.  But even without immigration, there's a job problem with workers being redundant due to offshoring, technology like robots and AI, and indigenous population growth in that shrinking jobs market.  Added to an education system that's popping out graduates for jobs that no longer exist, or no longer pay well.

 

But when someone refers to an entire area of people as "garbage", I don't think they're discussing economic theory.

 

[samran]

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

 This leaves me with a question about immigration.

  Why have immigrants come in to a country when there is a problem already  with wealth distribution ?  If the mass's are poor and do have proper work or wages how can they hope to support immigrants? So we are back to immigration is a big part of the problem huh.

It isn’t rocket science. They come because it is an improvement on where they come from. Most of these will be perfectly normal workers just looking to get on with it. 

 

Immigration hasn’t caused the economic disparity, however you may wish it.

 

Decades of economic policy have allowed two things to happen - a more competitive economy which is in itself a good thing. 

 

However the second thing is that shareholders have become paramount. And those productivity gains from extra competition have not been transferred to the middle classes and below through higher wages and benefits. Which is why you see a shrinking middle class and more wealth acruing to the top 1 or 2%.

 

but I shall stop there lest peoples brains explode.

 

back to: ‘immigrants bad - they are the reason I can’t get a job’... and ‘I’m not racist but...’

 

a lot more digestible for the typical audience of threads like this.

Edited April 2, 2018 by samran

[Finlaco]

4 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

I was reading this and looking at the pictures of the people involved ,i could not help noticing that very few are what you would call "native British people " wonder if it has something to do with uncontroled immegration to my old country? sorry if i am not PC and do not wish to appear racist ,or any of the other things one gets accused of these days for daring to speak.

 

 

It depends on how you form an opinion.  If ur stating point is 'native British' and immigration has been happening since 1940's, one wonders at what stage do you start to change your opinion?  After 70 years, 90 years?  

[soalbundy]

5 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

I was reading this and looking at the pictures of the people involved ,i could not help noticing that very few are what you would call "native British people " wonder if it has something to do with uncontroled immegration to my old country? sorry if i am not PC and do not wish to appear racist ,or any of the other things one gets accused of these days for daring to speak.

Who cares about PC , it's a disease and it's immigration, if you are racist stand to it, most people are even if they deny it. I personally am not racist but I don't like Indians (men), Pakistan (men) Arabs (men) and Africans, I am the least bigoted man in the world 

[bert bloggs]

3 hours ago, Finlaco said:

 

 

It depends on how you form an opinion.  If ur stating point is 'native British' and immigration has been happening since 1940's, one wonders at what stage do you start to change your opinion?  After 70 years, 90 years?  

Ok i agree ,i shall rephrase. looking at the pictures "the native British people in these pictures do not look like the people who originally inhabited the UK,when i was younger"  but it seems that the "immegrants" who came all those years ago did not teach their children well . Is that more to your liking?

also i am not trying to be racist as my wife is Thai ,my son is 50/50 and my very best friend for 40 years is half Jamaican . and his dad was one of the nicest men i ever met,and he was an immegrant .

Edited April 2, 2018 by bert bloggs

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, bert bloggs said:

Ok i agree ,i shall rephrase. looking at the pictures "the native British people in these pictures do not look like the people who originally inhabited the UK,when i was younger"  but it seems that the "immegrants" who came all those years ago did not teach their children well . Is that more to your liking?

Immigrant children don't orientate themselves on their parents but on the society around them, they go to school, they watch British television and they don't speak with their parents accent or broken English. If they are born and grow up in the UK they are as British as Hovis. When I was a small lad it was the Teddy boys with flick knives, then we had the mods and rockers who didn't play with magic dough, thugs and anti-social behaviour has always been a part of British life, it's the lead in the petrol or something.

[Chomper Higgot]

Theresa May removes 20,000 police officers and crime goes up. 

 

Who have thunk it?

 

Well this guy for a start:

 

 

[GinBoy2]

It's somewhat interesting to read the Brits agonizing over this, given a lot of the sanctimonious posts everytime there is a shooting in the US.

Guns, knives, and in a rather curious UK phenomenon, acid all have been around for ever.

What makes society more or less violent is an interesting question.

Murder in the US, aside from the headline grabbing mass shootings is at it's lowest levels in decades, whereas it seems the UK rate is on the rise.

The various 'experts' on TVF have postulated everything from immigration to inequality, and probably fluoride in the water given time!

The US has one of the largest immigrant populations in the western world, yet the data (no matter what Trump says, data isn't his strong point) says immigrants have a lower crime rate than native born Americans. So why the reverse would be true in the UK, I can't imagine.

Income inequality. Well here we are in Thailand with a gun owning culture and massive income inequality, yet I don't see the same headline grabbing news.

I have no answers. But what I do know is that there probably isn't a single simple answer, more likely a very complex mix of interwoven societal reasons, with unfortunately no 'bumper sticker' solution

[HLover]

5 hours ago, simple1 said:

No mention of 'extremists', as alleged by the usual members, for the reporting period.

No mention of any race causing the violence (stellar reporting to casually leave out that unessential information) however, the lead photo, victim and name leads some clues.