Large mistake made advice and help required

[Deserted]

Hello. A family member arrived at the weekend and encountered an incident which he is concerned about even though he has profited from it. He went to change money downtown at an exchange bureau and had to give  his phone number and passport details which he did. He said he had 4 currencies to change and there was some confusion. In the end he was given too much but because one amount was wrong and then adjusted he didn't check the other amount which had the same mistake but in a larger currency. So he was given a lot more than he should have been because the person making the transaction confused the amounts over the different currencies

 

He got a sim at the airport and said many calls were made to it and someone told him it will be reported and he will be stopped when he leaves the country. Is this true? He just went to change money but they made a mistake with the currencies and gave him something like 20 000 baht too much with one of them. He is only here on holiday and will fly out from Phuket so he can't go back to the place he went to.

 

Could someone tell me if he will have problems leaving the country? He is with his family. I don't see how he can have a problem. Someone in the shop made a mistake not him. He didn't even know until he looked at the receipt a few days later. Some guy at a bar has assured him that will go to the immigration dept and he will be stopped from leaving because the amount is quite high. About 20 000 baht.

 

Any advice offered will be greatly appreciated. Should he take legal advice? What should he do? Is there anything that can happen? It was a mistake by a company employee. Aren't they to blame And not him?

Edited April 4, 2018 by Deserted

[wordchild]

So your relative knows now that he received the incorrect amount. So he understands ( I assume) that the right thing to do would be to go back to the shop , and return the excess amount. It’s simple isn’t it. That is what he should do. if he can’t do it then he can easily get you or someone else to do on his behalf.  Why the problem?

Edited April 4, 2018 by wordchild

[BEVUP]

You could say it's like a mistake that you here about a bank doing

It's like knowing that you have received funds out of the ordinary & then go on a shopping spree thinking it was their mistake (even though it was ), 

& you were fully aware it wasn't your money

Been a few stories like that where the bank will chase

[ChouDoufu]

offer to pay it back.

tell them he's in phuket.  do they have a branch there?

also possible to tranfer from any bank.

have them send a letter ems with the situation explained

(in english and thai) with reimbursement instructions.

return the money via bank transfer.

get a receipt.

 

[Deserted]

32 minutes ago, wordchild said:

So your relative knows now that he received the incorrect amount. So he understands ( I assume) that the right thing to do would be to go back to the shop , and return the excess amount. It’s simple isn’t it. That is what he should do. if he can’t do it then he can easily get you or someone else to do on his behalf.  Why the problem?

Yes he knows. I also said to him to return it but he got a bit carried away with himself. He also said one amount was 1000 short. He said to the cashier what it was for and they added the amount straight away without checking in. He said he thought he was being cheated because the first amount wrong was 1000 less then they over corrected by mistake. He also said the rate being shown was higher than the one he was given so he left. He proved that the rate he was given was lower than what they were offering which is why he doesn't want to contact them. He said he would have lost 5400 baht. He was being honest and said because of that he doesn't want to speak to them. Like I said some guy has convinced him there will be repercussions. 

 

If I am being honest I don't want to ask all this but my cousins are here and pushing me to because if it is picked up by immigration they can't leave.

 

Is he just worried about nothing? I know he should give it back but it does seem as though they tried to make a few thousand baht out of him but it backfired. What will happen if he doesn't give it back?

[Deserted]

Sorry for asking all this. The main question is what will happen if he doesn't give it back. 

[Deserted]

32 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

offer to pay it back.

tell them he's in phuket.  do they have a branch there?

also possible to tranfer from any bank.

have them send a letter ems with the situation explained

(in english and thai) with reimbursement instructions.

return the money via bank transfer.

get a receipt.

 

I am as are his kids. He showed me the receipt and there are mistakes. The rate was 0.54 lower than the advertised rate. He said because they weren't honest about that he will not give it back.

 

It's his life but some guy has convinced him that immigration will stop him because the shop has a copy of his passport. My uncle can do whatever he likes. It's his life but my cousins will be affected. That's why I ask. 

 

ALL help appreciated. I don't know how to solve this one

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Deserted said:

Any advice offered will be greatly appreciated. Should he take legal advice? What should he do? Is there anything that can happen? It was a mistake by a company employee. Aren't they to blame And not him?

What should he do?  How about this...take back the money, it is not his.  Easy. 

 

If he doesn't, knowing that the exchange had been trying to contact him and ignoring what was said in those calls (Why? Oh yes, he knows he is in the wrong) let's hope that he does get detained at the airport.  He's a thief, keeping what he knows he is not entitled to.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Deserted said:

He is only here on holiday and will fly out from Phuket so he can't go back to the place he went to.

Well he knows he phone number of the exchange whose money he has, so all he has to do is call them, explain that he can't get there and ask for bank details so that he can pay it into the exchange's account.

[Just Weird]

53 minutes ago, Deserted said:

He was being honest and said because of that he doesn't want to speak to them.

Really?  Don't think so, he's just trying to get away with B20,000 of someone else's money.  He's more dishonest than he claimed the exchange was even though they made good their probably honest mistake.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

38 minutes ago, Deserted said:

Sorry for asking all this. The main question is what will happen if he doesn't give it back. 

If it's been reported (and sure as eggs are eggs it will have been because the exchange clerk will have had to explain where the missing B20,000 is) your dishonest uncle will be arrested at the airport pending an investigation.  He'd better make sure that he's got the exchange's B20k at the very minimum!

Edited April 4, 2018 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

34 minutes ago, Deserted said:

 He showed me the receipt and there are mistakes. The rate was 0.54 lower than the advertised rate. He said because they weren't honest about that he will not give it back.

He will find that the rate that anyone is given is the rate on the receipt, that is not necessarily exactly the same as the rate on the board.   Exchange rates vary constantly and the rates shown on the boards are updated periodically but sometimes are not bang up to date, that is why he is given a receipt with the real rate on it that he is asked to acknowledge by signing before the cash is handed to him. 

 

No matter how much you or he try to excuse or justify his action by claiming that the exchange was dishonest that does not give him carte blanche to be deliberately dishonest. 

[Morch]

I don't know that he will be stopped, but not too hard to see it happening. Not a huge sum, but not the sort a small to medium business would simply write off. Not if they've got his details.

 

If he's stubborn about it, and won't budge, yet you worry about your cousins - get the needed details and sort it out yourself, presuming it doesn't it doesn't leave an impossible to fill hole in your wallet.

[topt]

2 hours ago, Deserted said:

He got a sim at the airport and said many calls were made to it

I don't understand if he received calls why did he not answer them? Presumably the calls happened before this -

 

2 hours ago, Deserted said:

He didn't even know until he looked at the receipt a few days later.

Does not quite ring true? Who doesn't count their money when receiving it or at the latest when back at their residence........

As others have suggested and from the way you have reported it he does not sound an innocent party.......

[topt]

4 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

that is why he is given a receipt with the real rate on it that he is asked to acknowledge by signing before the cash is handed to him. 

Do they make you sign now?

I have not changed cash for a while but the ones I used in Pattaya certainly never used to. 

[Deserted]

He should return it. It's not his. He said no one else had his number and there were many calls. 

 

He said he got confused over the UAE Durham amount and couldn't work out why he got more in the other pile.

 

I think he's taking advantage of a mistake made. He seems to think they were trying to swindle him. How right he is I really don't know.

 

He said he only went in to change money and they messed up so it's their problem but yes he should return the money.

 

However, he's rather stubborn and will not budge. I don't want to lie to him and tell him the authorities will get involved if that is a lie. But this is something I know nothing about. Probably best I take legal advice or something. I was trying to help my cousins out because if he is detained.

 

Sorry about all this. Don't know anything about it all. 

 

 

 

[Deserted]

2 hours ago, wordchild said:

So your relative knows now that he received the incorrect amount. So he understands ( I assume) that the right thing to do would be to go back to the shop , and return the excess amount. It’s simple isn’t it. That is what he should do. if he can’t do it then he can easily get you or someone else to do on his behalf.  Why the problem?

He just won't. He is sticking to his guns and stressing my cousins out. The guy he spoke to in the bar was probably drunk for all I know. 

[Deserted]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

Really?  Don't think so, he's just trying to get away with B20,000 of someone else's money.  He's more dishonest than he claimed the exchange was even though they made good their probably honest mistake.

Well he does genuinely believe they did try to cheat him on one or two of the currencies but it seems like he is trying to get away with the mistake made.

[geriatrickid]

Explain to your "uncle" that the clerk is held responsible for the shortfall and will be forced to pay it back. The clerk is probably paid a minimum of 300 baht a day and has to support his family on that.  If your "uncle" still feels he deserves the money, then I hope your  "uncle" is stopped and charged with theft, because that is what it was. Let him enjoy his time in detention. And I hope they make his life a living hell.

 

Just another high class visitor to Phuket.

[observer90210]

On TVF we jump on the opportunity to rant (myself included) when Thai's are dishonest or cheat.....but it also works the other way round !

 

Keeping excess money given by the cashier is dishonest and the poor chap could loose his job.

 

Ok the extra cash, wrongly in his hands will give him maybe more booze and pussy...but it will be at somebody else's expense.......if he get's into trouble for keeping the excess cash, he would have plainly looked for it !

[Deserted]

Well ok. I am not happy with how he is handling it. I did want to tell him the truth but maybe it's best left alone. 

 

He didn't steal anything but he also did not give back what was given to him by mistake. I don't know how that constitutes breaking the law. That is why I posted. I would be grateful if that could be answered rather than what he should or should not be doing.

[Airalee]

This is rich...coming from a guy who wanted his bicycle accident “post dated 2 weeks” so that BUPA would cover it.  Hello...insurance fraud.  It’s no wonder you don’t see the ethical dilemma here. ?  

[jak2002003]

Are you sure it's your 'uncle' and not actually you?  Because, you seem to be very worried about it and trying to justify him keeping the money and keep asking if he will be arrested or detained at the airport.....

 

Seems you want someone to say... 'no problem... he will get away with it', then you can relax and 'he' can enjoy the money without the fear of getting caught.

 

How exactly are you cousins going to be implicated in this anyway?  

 

Everyone has answered you....  he is in the wrong to take the money... and he needs to return it.  He will likely be detained at the airport if not.  

[InMyShadow]

Sorry for asking all this. The main question is what will happen if he doesn't give it back. 

Sounds like your family are dogs. Give it back!

[Janner1]

This rightly can and probably will be construed as THEFT and because he is a farang the Bangkok Hilton beckons.

 

If he can prove that they tried to swindle him then he has an argument but that will still not detract from the awaiting charge.

Monetary transactions are carried out largely with passport proof of who you are, name address etc and sometimes more especially now, backed up by telephone number when you buy a sim which has to be registered with the coms company and the government.

So without doubt your friend will be jumped on at any airport he tries to leave from, this record will also impact on him if he returns in the future.

 

So as everybody has said give it back before he gets to the airport.

 

If he can prove that they tried to swindle him he could go to the police and report the matter BUT he will have to place the extra money he was paid in error in an secure registered receipted situation ( not sure quite what given the corrupt echelons that abound in Thailand ) until the matter has been properly investigated and adjudged.

 

Does your friend really want all that hassle??

If he does he is a fool.

If he thinks he will get away with keeping it he is also a fool.

 

Quite frankly and no disrespect to you but if you do not walk away from this in double quick time you are also a fool.

[Just Weird]

7 hours ago, Deserted said:

Well ok. I am not happy with how he is handling it. I did want to tell him the truth but maybe it's best left alone. 

 

He didn't steal anything but he also did not give back what was given to him by mistake. I don't know how that constitutes breaking the law. That is why I posted. I would be grateful if that could be answered rather than what he should or should not be doing.

"He didn't steal anything but he also did not give back what was given to him by mistake".

More accurately, he did not give back what was not his to keep.  That was explained by the exchange who called him many times according to your OP to tell him of the mistake!  He is stealing.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Just Weird

[ChouDoufu]

7 hours ago, Deserted said:

....He didn't steal anything but he also did not give back what was given to him by mistake. I don't know how that constitutes breaking the law. .....

ignoring the moral/ethical questions - you just want to know is it a crime?

don't know the law in thailand, but in countries with functioning legal systems,

yes, it is.  you can equate your situation with a malfunctioning ATM.

 

https://www.stacklaw.com.au/news/criminal-law/my-atm-overpays-can-i-keep-it/

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12645719

 

i would assume thailand law would be similar in principle.  the only real difference is that as a foreign tourist, your cousin doesn't enjoy the same protection as citizens.

[dotpoom]

17 hours ago, wordchild said:

So your relative knows now that he received the incorrect amount. So he understands ( I assume) that the right thing to do would be to go back to the shop , and return the excess amount. It’s simple isn’t it. That is what he should do. if he can’t do it then he can easily get you or someone else to do on his behalf.  Why the problem?

Right on, ...both the OP and the friend seem to be only concerned about "getting away with it".... God be with the days when the first thought would have been..." How to return the excess money".

    I'm sure they must be aware that the person who made the mistake will have to make up the loss. But of course their mentality would just say "proper order".

   If they can't see what's wrong with that thinking...then no point trying to explain.

[klauskunkel]

the relative should contact that exchange office, but does not need to go there and give it back. Instead it is that office's problem to meet with your relative and retrieve the excess amount. He does not have to spend his time and money to rectify somebody else's error.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

12 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Are you sure it's your 'uncle' and not actually you?  Because, you seem to be very worried about it and trying to justify him keeping the money and keep asking if he will be arrested or detained at the airport.....

 

Seems you want someone to say... 'no problem... he will get away with it', then you can relax and 'he' can enjoy the money without the fear of getting caught.

 

How exactly are you cousins going to be implicated in this anyway?  

 

Everyone has answered you....  he is in the wrong to take the money... and he needs to return it.  He will likely be detained at the airport if not.  

 

It's so him, lol