Best way to cycle visa runs?

[asdfrules]

 

You want to stay in Thailand for 2 or 3 years on SETVs.  But you can't just go to the same place to get your visas every time.  You have to mix it up and go to different places instead.  What is the best way to attain continual visas without problems?  Here are some more specific questions.

 

1. How much switching of visa run locations is needed?  Cycle between 2 places?  Or maybe 3 or 4?
2. Which is better, to enter by air vs land?
3. Should you extend the visa every time, sometimes, or never?
4. Would 1 or 2 visa exempt entries per year help, hinder, or make no difference?
5. Would staying somewhere else, like Vietnam, for 3 months per year make much of a difference?

 

Example 1.  How about this?

 

Vientiane 60 days + Extend 30 days

HCMC 60 days + Extend 30 days
Repeat

 

Example 2.  Or this one?

 

Vientiane 60 days + Extend 30 days
Savannahket 60 days + Extend 30 days

HCMC 60 days + Extend 30 days
Repeat

 

I'm Canadian and interested in just SETVs from inexpensive countries in the region.  But perhaps a wider discussion would also help others.

 

Thanks everyone in advance.  I know this topic has been discussed a lot.  I did a lot of digging.  I'm just still unsure of the best way to approach this. 

[Nick ZepTepi]

Include Hong Kong as they require the least amount of additional paperwork.

HCMC require everything they state on their website.

Where you go will depend on where you want to live in Thailand.

For example Chiang Mai have direct flights to Hong Kong & HCMC.

Yes enter with a visa is a bit easier than without.

I suggest you save land border entry until the end of a year just in case!



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[Swimman]

Attempting to stay in the country for 2-3 years using serial visa exempt entries or SETV's is perhaps not the best of ideas.  If you try it be prepared to be questioned by immigration about why you are spending so much time in Thailand.

[peterb17]

1 hour ago, Swimman said:

Attempting to stay in the country for 2-3 years using serial visa exempt entries or SETV's is perhaps not the best of ideas.  If you try it be prepared to be questioned by immigration about why you are spending so much time in Thailand.

 

Because he wishes to visit lots of temples and fully immerse himself in the local culture. 

[poanoi]

i think if you are from EU, you can live on for example saint martin in caribbean

without a single visa run, since its split between netherlands & france

[jackdd]

In average you need 3 tourist visas and 2 visa exempts from land crossings per year.

I think all embassies will issue you a tourist visa at least 3 times, so just pick 3 that are most convenient for you and cycle through them.

9 tourist visas, and 2 visa exempts per year at land borders, and each extended gives you 1170 days of stay. Three years have 1095 or 1096 days so you have a few days buffer.

At this point your passport is probably full anyway, so just get a new one and the visa count at the embassies starts at 0, and you can do it again.

You can start with a METV from your home country, then you start with nearly 9 months of visas.

So this covers at least the requirement to get the Visas for your stay.

 

It might of course happen that an IO tries to refuse entry:

Have 20k THB in cash (or other equivalent currency) with you

Be somehow able to prove that you have income or money in another country

Be aware of immigration law section 22 (and if you want to be really well prepared carry the TM11 form with you https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1486548054958.pdf )

[BritTim]

Actually (at least currently) you could visit the same consulate every time, as long as that consulate is Savannakhet. However, it is one of the most boring places to get a visa. As stated, Hong Kong is great for getting the visa except that a decent hotel is quite costly. A limited number of visas is available from Vientiane, Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi and Yangon. If you are not strapped for money, I suggest short holidays in each.

[juice777]

Get 1 or 2 in Vietnam or Cambodia why you still have none in your passport because you wont be able to go later and might miss a lively place on your Visa runs.

 

Then 2 in Vientiane

 

Then just keep going to Savannakhet, if you have the right docs you can get loads there.

 

 

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[NoshowJones]

This is where Thailand badly lets itself down, this OP is a perfect example of messing people around, making them jump through unnecessary hoops.

 

Is there really any need to mess people around like this toing and froing to different borders just to stay a bit longer in Thailand.

 

Sure there are some undesirables coming in to Thailand but IMO the vast majority of tourists are here in Thailand for various reasons like visiting temples visiting people they know, traveling around etc, and most of all spending money, give these people a break Thailand and catch and hammer the undesirables, instead of the police sitting around in inactive posts and not enforcing the law.

[maxcorrigan]

3 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

This is where Thailand badly lets itself down, this OP is a perfect example of messing people around, making them jump through unnecessary hoops.

 

Is there really any need to mess people around like this toing and froing to different borders just to stay a bit longer in Thailand.

 

Sure there are some undesirables coming in to Thailand but IMO the vast majority of tourists are here in Thailand for various reasons like visiting temples visiting people they know, traveling around etc, and most of all spending money, give these people a break Thailand and catch and hammer the undesirables, instead of the police sitting around in inactive posts and not enforcing the law.

I think the need is to keep flangs in their place, and not get too complacent about living LOS! 

[JackThompson]

Other questions covered the others pretty well.  The following pertains to entering with a valid Tourist Visa / not exempt.

 

9 hours ago, asdfrules said:

Which is better, to enter by air vs land?

By air, at first, will be no problem.  After the first 2 or 3 entries, I would stick to land, to avoid the possibility of being denied entry on "suspicion" of working - even if you aren't, and have the 20K in cash, and have bank-records proving other income which they may refuse to even look at, while calling you a liar, and taking you to a detention-cell (based on other's reports).  We don't have bad-stories yet from Chang Mai airport, so that would be your best option, if you must fly in.

 

At land-borders, general policy if denied entry is an unofficial-denial, so you just cancel your exit-stamp from the country you were leaving, and travel to another Thai entry-point.  This avoids any risk of detention and being forced to fly somewhere you don't want to go.

 

Currently Poipet/Aranyaprathet is the only land-border that should always be avoided (even for those on ME-NonO visas).  The 20K will likely only be asked for when coming in from Malaysia, but that's the only hurdle, there.

[Hupaponics]

How about geting a proper visa that suit your stay?

2 to 3 year of stay in a country is not tourism. Try to stay as a tourist more than 6 months in any western country.

 

Can I as a European stay in US 2-3 years on a turist visa? Or Asian guy in Europe? How long time can I stay in Australia as a tourist?

 

Cheers

[juice777]

How about geting a proper visa that suit your stay?
2 to 3 year of stay in a country is not tourism. Try to stay as a tourist more than 6 months in any western country.
 
Can I as a European stay in US 2-3 years on a turist visa? Or Asian guy in Europe? How long time can I stay in Australia as a tourist?
 
Cheers

Zzzzzzzzzz

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[jackdd]

21 minutes ago, Hupaponics said:

Can I as a European stay in US 2-3 years on a turist visa? Or Asian guy in Europe? How long time can I stay in Australia as a tourist?

Not 100% sure how this works in reality, but afaik the visa waiver program for the USA which allows 90 days per entry doesn't have a limit and for Australia it's possible to apply for a one year tourist visa and even extend this, also seems to have no limit. Seems easier than Thailand to me.

Being a tourist in Europe is indeed more difficult, but the advantage here is that if somebody marries a European person they are allowed to work in any job they want and after just being married 2 years (and in the country for 3 years) they can apply for citizenship.

Edited April 11, 2018 by jackdd

[onera1961]

8 hours ago, jackdd said:

Not 100% sure how this works in reality, but afaik the visa waiver program for the USA which allows 90 days per entry doesn't have a limit and for Australia it's possible to apply for a one year tourist visa and even extend this, also seems to have no limit. Seems easier than Thailand to me.

The unofficial posture is that few people can afford to live without working for more than six months. Immigration will deny entry if suspicion arises. Thousands are denied entry every year.

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, Hupaponics said:

Can I as a European stay in US 2-3 years on a turist visa? Or Asian guy in Europe? How long time can I stay in Australia as a tourist?

Those nations have higher wage-levels, so have to worry about the use of tourist-entries for illegal-working and/or those coming in to take "free money" from social-welfare systems set up and paid for by and for citizens.

Thailand, OTOH, has no social-welfare available to any foreigner, and lower pay-levels than Western nations - so no "magnet" effect.  Those of us who come and stay are financial benefits - not liabilities - each of us bringing in enough foreign-capital to support multiple Thai salaries.

 

Unfortunately, the Thai immigration rules are not written for the benefit of Thai citizens, so they make it easy for people from lower-wage nations to come in and drive down Thai wages (unlimited land-border entries and special work-visas), while making it difficult for people from higher-wage nations to stay longer and spend more money - which raises Thai wages and creates business opportunities. 

 

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

The unofficial posture is that few people can afford to live without working for more than six months. Immigration will deny entry if suspicion arises. Thousands are denied entry every year.

Yes, because they do not understand that "earning money" is no longer well-correlated to going to some building and "clocking in" to "work".   In the case of those denied from higher-wage nations, most of those "denials of entry" cause a loss of Thais incomes.  They seem to think it is "worth it" to play "tit for tat" with us for our nation's immigration systems, which are often arbitrary and cruel - but exist due to a real problem with "will work super cheap" people entering to destroy our citizen's wages / livelihoods / lives. 

 

Granted, the place to deal with the problem is the employer.  If faced with a decade in prison for treason, they would not hire foreign-workers, and the magnet-effect would be removed.  At that point, we would know that those entering our nations were coming in to spend their own money.  Similarly in Thailand - strict enforcement on employers is the key.

Edited April 12, 2018 by JackThompson

[onera1961]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

In the case of those denied from higher-wage nations, most of those "denials of entry" cause a loss of Thais incomes. 

Unfortunately, thousands from those higher wage nations are also sweating as "English" teacher and some of them are illegally.

[JackThompson]

24 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Unfortunately, thousands from those higher wage nations are also sweating as "English" teacher and some of them are illegally.

Yes - due to the lack of enforcement on employers, many see no reason to comply with the law and obtain proper visas for their English teachers.  Many qualified English teachers have reported that unless one is willing to work illegally, no one will hire them (when I have argued that they should refuse). 

 

This is a sad situation, as Thailand desperately needs more English instruction, in order to catch up with the others in ASEAN, and for its students to be more competitive in the workplace.  Cambodian kids are much more proficient in English, with much easier qualifications, visas and work-permits for their native-speaking English teachers.

 

I doubt most of those being denied are English teachers or Scuba instructors, though. 

Edited April 12, 2018 by JackThompson

[asdfrules]

Thanks a lot for the helpful answers guys.  Some conflicting info here actually.  But I'm getting threre.  I'll follow up questions with quotes below.  And a general question here.  As much feedback an opinions appreciated, even if repetitious.

 

HCMC / Vientiane / Savannakhet / Yangoon / Penang
How many prior visas in your passport from any consulate might they allow?
How many prior visas in your passport from their own consulate might they allow?

 

 

17 hours ago, JackThompson said:

By air, at first, will be no problem.  After the first 2 or 3 entries, I would stick to land, to avoid the possibility of being denied entry on "suspicion" of working - even if you aren't, and ...

Wow okay.  Really only 2 or 3 entries?  I thought that it would be more like 8 or 9 entries until you start getting problems entering the country.  But yeah, the other point, that it's better to be denied entry at a land border, rather than airport.  Hadn't thought of that. 

 

What does anyone else think about this?  You only get 2 or 3 entries before your risk getting denied entry?

 

 

20 hours ago, BritTim said:

A limited number of visas is available from Vientiane, Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi and Yangon. If you are not strapped for money, I suggest short holidays in each.

 

A limited number of visas from those locations.  Does that mean you can get 1 or 2 from each place?  But what if you already have 5 or 8 from other places, then try to get your first visa from, say HCMC?  Or what if it's your second time there?

 

 

21 hours ago, jackdd said:

I think all embassies will issue you a tourist visa at least 3 times, so just pick 3 that are most convenient for you and cycle through them.

Great.  Does anyone else agree that consulates will do at least 3 times?  Even if you have TVs from 5 or 8 other consulates in your passport.  (I'm assuming we mean the "good" consulates, like Vientiane, Savannakhet, HCMC,  Hanoi, Yangoon.

 

 

On 4/11/2018 at 11:53 AM, Nick ZepTepi said:

I suggest you save land border entry until the end of a year just in case!

Why save the land crossing until the end of the year?

 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, asdfrules said:

22 hours ago, BritTim said:

A limited number of visas is available from Vientiane, Ho Chi Minh City, Hanoi and Yangon. If you are not strapped for money, I suggest short holidays in each.

A limited number of visas from those locations.  Does that mean you can get 1 or 2 from each place?  But what if you already have 5 or 8 from other places, then try to get your first visa from, say HCMC?  Or what if it's your second time there?

The reason I suggested those consulates is because they do not red stamp based on tourist visas you have received elsewhere. Penang and Phnom Penh do. You should be fine with two from each, probably three.

[Najinsky]

21 hours ago, JackThompson said:

At land-borders, general policy if denied entry is an unofficial-denial, so you just cancel your exit-stamp from the country you were leaving, and travel to another Thai entry-point.  This avoids any risk of detention and being forced to fly somewhere you don't want to go.

I’ve not had to do it yet, but I suspect at some point I might, so it would be good to know about “Cancel exit stamp” to be able to get back into the country you were leaving.

 

whats the process, and does it vary by country? Cambodia (O’ Smach) and Laos (Vang Tao, Savannakhet & Vientiane) are my commonly used crossings.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Najinsky

[phuketrichard]

On 4/11/2018 at 5:02 PM, possum1931 said:

This is where Thailand badly lets itself down, this OP is a perfect example of messing people around, making them jump through unnecessary hoops.

 

Is there really any need to mess people around like this toing and froing to different borders just to stay a bit longer in Thailand.

 

Sure there are some undesirables coming in to Thailand but IMO the vast majority of tourists are here in Thailand for various reasons like visiting temples visiting people they know, traveling around etc, and most of all spending money, give these people a break Thailand and catch and hammer the undesirables, instead of the police sitting around in inactive posts and not enforcing the law.

Yea correct,BUT TOURISTS dont stay more than a few months.Than 99% have to go home to work.

Staying 2-3 years on a tourist visa?? is nothing unusual about that?   What do you think immigration thinks?
"ahhhh, you MUST be working illegally , otherwise how can u stay in our country?"

 

Go home, get a METV, good for almost 9 months, do one visa to as nearby country + 1 extension>
than go back home/Repeat
still after around 18 months or so,immigration is going to start asking question. Regardless where u get ur visa, each and every entry is in their computers...

 

http://www.thai-elite.com/elite-visa.html

 

5 YEAR MULTIPLE ENTRY VISA – “PE VISA”

You can now get a 5-year multiple entry visa for Thailand!
Perfect if you are under 50 years old, or not married to a Thai citizen or not working.

• Visa type: PE
• Visa validity: 5 years
• Length of stay: 1 year per entry
• Extendable: Every entry gives you a full year stay, or you can extend every year at your local Immigration office.

[email protected]

 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by phuketrichard

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

staying 2-3 years on a tourist visa?? is nothing unusual about that?   What do u think immigration thinks?
"ahhhh, you MUST be working illegally , otherwise how can u stay in our country

If unfamiliar with how millions earn a living in the modern world, I can see how that conclusion would be arrived at.  But then, they would look at the passport - see "Germany" for example, and say to themselves, "But he could earn 10x more in his home-country as a brick-layer than here with most degreed-jobs.  Hmmmm, they must have an independent income, or he would not be here.  Worst-case, they are teaching English, and we desperately need more of that," and stamp them in.

 

The PE pricing is crazy, relative to other options in the area.  Someone can be very able to support living in Thailand without taking a poor-paying Thai job, but not be willing/able to blow 500K Baht or more on a temporary-visa.  If "illegal working long-stay Westerners" was a serious concern, they could merely ask for income-proof or savings for annual extensions, as they currently do for people over 50, and the problem would have been solved.  But instead of removing that age-barrier, to reflect the fact that incomes are no longer tied to "going to a building" to work, they turned to greed, and invented and legalized the fattest brown-envelope ever conceived.

[jackdd]

56 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

 

http://www.thai-elite.com/elite-visa.html

The link that you posted might be a scam, that's the original site: https://www.thailandelite.com

[Acemaker]

19 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Thousands are denied entry every year

Good ! 

[onera1961]

Some people feel they are entitled to live in Thailand and immigration should never question them about their motif and allow them to live in Thailand forever because they come from high wage countries and they are contributing to Thai economy. I wonder why they don't go and live in other high wage countries like Japan, Australia, etc.

Edited April 12, 2018 by onera1961

[onera1961]

20 hours ago, JackThompson said:

If faced with a decade in prison for treason, they would not hire foreign-workers,

Even in the US and UK, employers hiring illegal workers don't face decades of prison

[poanoi]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

Some people feel they are entitled to live in Thailand and immigration should never question them about their motif and allow them to live in Thailand forever because they come from high wage countries and they are contributing to Thai economy. I wonder why they don't go and live in other high wage countries like Japan, Australia, etc.

a mystery indeed, but i'd suggest high wage countries = high cost of living countries, and commonly also freezing cold.

almost begs the question why is population in freezing cold more competitive ?

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:52 PM, poanoi said:

i think if you are from EU, you can live on for example saint martin in caribbean

without a single visa run, since its split between netherlands & france

What has that to do with Thailand?

[poanoi]

18 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

What has that to do with Thailand?

its a good way to do away with visa runs IMO,

you still get to live in tropical climate, just minus visa runs, minus visa hassle, freedom to plan long term economy, relaxed way of life not being at mercy of immigration officers with a bad hair day

Edited April 13, 2018 by poanoi