‘Prayut creating network of allies’ to remain as PM

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I couldn't agree more.

 

The protest against Thaksin's amnesty was a reasonable exercise in Democracy.

 

Suthep's rent-a-mob and the coup were a planned power grab by the military, nothing less and nothing more.

 

Blaming the coup on Thaksin, the PTP or anyone other than the coup plotters themselves is simply being one of Lenin's "Useful Idiots" or "Useful Fools" (depending on which translation you prefer).

 

It saddens me that there are so many "Useful Fools" and/or "Useful Idiots" here...

 

 

Your as bias as can be.. reasonable exercise in democracy.. getting a corrupt master criminal free and pardoning 30.000 corruption cases... sure reasonable if your a corrupt thug. 

[Eric Loh]

4 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

The 64,000$ question is; will the Thai people accept as 'Legitimate' the formation of a government based on the Junta constitution and the Junta-Appointed Senate? This is the political area that the parties need to be harping on day after day after day after day.

 Should PTP win the election (pretty obvious outcome) but could not form the majority and the Dem play the rogue again and create an impasse in the lower house; he become PM with the combine houses vote; we have the 2010 chaos re-play. Almost identical background of PMs not having the popular vote. 

 

He will not have his defensive walls of Article 44 which under the constitution will be removed after an elected government is installed and all his draconian intimidating methods to reign in activists, pressure groups, demonstrators and media that he enjoyed under a coup government. Demonstrators will be back to the streets which the constitution permits and he may resort to force and matters will spin out of control. Not a pleasant situation. Reasons enough to hope PTP win the majority and the Dem act democratically.

 

 

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 Should PTP win the election (pretty obvious outcome) but could not form the majority and the Dem play the rogue again and create an impasse in the lower house; he become PM with the combine houses vote; we have the 2010 chaos re-play. Almost identical background of PMs not having the popular vote. 

 

He will not have his defensive walls of Article 44 which under the constitution will be removed after an elected government is installed and all his draconian intimidating methods to reign in activists, pressure groups, demonstrators and media that he enjoyed under a coup government. Demonstrators will be back to the streets which the constitution permits and he may resort to force and matters will spin out of control. Not a pleasant situation. Reasons enough to hope PTP win the majority and the Dem act democratically.

 

 

The PTP won't win.. they will become the biggest.. (obvious).. now if other parties don't support them (that is democracy) then they just won't be able to form a government. Its up to the PTP to gather enough support if they can't its democracy in play.

 

Its up to the parties who together have a majority to decide the future of this country.. not the biggest party (can be of course) but is not needed. 

[starky]

1 hour ago, smutcakes said:

No, you are intentionally missing the point. There was a coup on the back of 100's of thousands of predominant Bangkok based and southerners protesting over Government corruption. A coup you strongly supported reasoning that they needed reform. (you were one of a few naive enough to actually believe they wanted reform) Now the NCPO who were supposed to reform are doing the exact same things political parties have always done (Including previous coup governments) and yet the PDRC and the 100's of thousands of Bangkok and southerners are suddenly quiet.

 

Can you answer a  couple of simple questions. Do you now accept that the protests where carefully organized and choreographed by the army and other powerful Bangkok based factions simply as a means of grabbing power and continuing corruption rather than any reform? And also the 100's of thousands of protesters also did not really care about corruption? do you conceded that your hatred of Thaksin completely clouded your vision and you were simply unable to see that there never was any intention to stop corruption or reform anything? (Something people have been telling you for 4 years-)

 

I am well aware how political works and how parties need to keep these canvassers and regional mafia groups onside. It is clear and always has been the case. But Prayut has spent the last 4 years degrading politicians for this type of things and shouting about reform and Prawit have crack downs on influential mafia, yet 12 months before an election they appoint 2 of the possible worse ones into their Government.

@robblok response will be something along the lines of ptp, Thaksin, Thaksin ptp, shins Thaksin I must get in the final word in Thaksin. 20 more posts per thread, I have always been correst, Thaksin. He says he hates both sides equally but I don't even think he is even aware of the obvious bias he has in his posts. Funnier still is he acts like posters on here who don't like the Junta vote for the PTP or somehow support Thaksin. You are wasting your breath.

[chainarong]

All the guy is doing is using his position to lobby and see what support he has,  leaders world wide do that , the contenders In Oz will be lobbying before Xmas, at least with EX General , Unelected Prime Minister, Junta leader Prayut it will be entertaining.............................  

[Samui Bodoh]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 Should PTP win the election (pretty obvious outcome) but could not form the majority and the Dem play the rogue again and create an impasse in the lower house; he become PM with the combine houses vote; we have the 2010 chaos re-play. Almost identical background of PMs not having the popular vote. 

 

He will not have his defensive walls of Article 44 which under the constitution will be removed after an elected government is installed and all his draconian intimidating methods to reign in activists, pressure groups, demonstrators and media that he enjoyed under a coup government. Demonstrators will be back to the streets which the constitution permits and he may resort to force and matters will spin out of control. Not a pleasant situation. Reasons enough to hope PTP win the majority and the Dem act democratically.

 

 

Respectfully, I must disagree somewhat.

 

My mantra for Thai politics is 'Yellows and Greens cheat. They cheat often. They  cheat repeatedly They always cheat. They are cheating cheaters who cheat'.

 

I am not sure how they will cheat, but I would bet my last dollar that they will cheat.

 

And the "Useful Fools" and/or the "Useful Idiots" will be out again, as they always are...

 

I am not sure what the future holds for Thai politics (other than the "Useful Fools/Useful Idiots"), but it won't be easy and the outcome is uncertain.

 

Interesting times...

 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, starky said:

@robblok response will be something along the lines of ptp, Thaksin, Thaksin ptp, shins Thaksin I must get in the final word in Thaksin. 20 more posts per thread, I have always been correst, Thaksin. He says he hates both sides equally but I don't even think he is even aware of the obvious bias he has in his posts. Funnier still is he acts like posters on here who don't like the Junta vote for the PTP or somehow support Thaksin. You are wasting your breath.

Nice ad hominem its you who can't accept other opinions. I accept that others see it differently.. i just don't agree. According to you I have to change my views.. I don't force people to change their views.. just debate with them. Its something you obviously can't stand.

 

Everyone is bias.. i dislike the Shins, junta too. A vote for the PTP is a vote for Thaksin.. if you don't like the junta there are other ways to vote then vote PTP. 

 

Anyway come with arguments you won't sway my mind and I won't sway your mind.. its simple does not mean you have to attack me personally.

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Its up to the parties who together have a majority to decide the future of this country.. not the biggest party (can be of course) but is not needed. 

Wrong again Rob. Appointed senators don't belong to any party and they will decide the future of this country should the PTP can't form the government. Appointed senators are the hired hoodlums of the junta and a mockery of the democratic system. 

[robblok]

19 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Wrong again Rob. Appointed senators don't belong to any party and they will decide the future of this country should the PTP can't form the government. Appointed senators are the hired hoodlums of the junta and a mockery of the democratic system. 

Its simple.. get a majority and rule (as in form a coalition). If you got a big enough majority you can rule.

 

If you can't get a majority even if your the biggest party you can't rule. 

 

So its up to the parties to form a coalition and make sure the appointed senators don't have a say.

 

Its a shame that they have them, and that someone like Prayut could become PM without a majority. I agree 100% that that is a bad thing. 

 

However form a coalition (compromise) and they can prevent this. 

 

Not related to your post but for those that think i support the junta

 

I support Thananthorn so anyone saying i support the junta is crazy.. this guy is certainly anti junta. There are more choices then Shin / Junta / Or democrats  

Edited April 19, 2018 by robblok

[holy cow cm]

It was possible that these groups together could gain 126 seats in the House of Representatives. When combined with the 250 junta-appointed senators, it would be sufficient to put Prayut in the government’s top job, he said.

 

250 junta seats is so out of line. He is a corrupt egocentric A ****. Do as I say but not as I do because I have the military machines and soldiers under my thumb. Oust Prem, Oust the entire council, Oust Big P, Oust small P and return this operetta to the general public as it needs to be.  

 

He is not cute, not fair and morally corrupt, except he rewrites everything in his favor and puts a clamp on everyone. What a pcs of ................ Yeah, he can go down in history like dictator rulers like Hussein

[klauskunkel]

Creating allies? That implies they'd have a degree of "say so" in policy making. Nah, he is creating minions, lick-spittle and drones like a good Autocrat.

[Media1]

Dreams and dribble. The most hated of all time. No chance. There's always watch shops and golf 

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, holy cow cm said:

It was possible that these groups together could gain 126 seats in the House of Representatives. When combined with the 250 junta-appointed senators, it would be sufficient to put Prayut in the government’s top job, he said.

 

250 junta seats is so out of line. He is a corrupt egocentric A ****. Do as I say but not as I do because I have the military machines and soldiers under my thumb. Oust Prem, Oust the entire council, Oust Big P, Oust small P and return this operetta to the general public as it needs to be.  

 

He is not cute, not fair and morally corrupt, except he rewrites everything in his favor and puts a clamp on everyone. What a pcs of ................ Yeah, he can go down in history like dictator rulers like Hussein

Yea its bad if Prayut would come in like that..

 

But they have to have 25% of the votes to pull it off that is quite sizable. If he can garner that much support then he is more popular than thought. (still a sham if he has to become a PM like that)

 

500 seats... 126 = more then 25%

[jonclark]

This is sad. These 'allies' are the same kingmaker, powerbrokers, and dinosaurs that are responsible for the political quagmire Thailand has found itself in for the past 6 years. 

 

These dinosaurs do not want reform and progress, they exist simply to maintain their families influence and regional domintion. 

 

Be in no doubt, their backing and support is only given if their terms are met. 

 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, jonclark said:

This is sad. These 'allies' are the same kingmaker, powerbrokers, and dinosaurs that are responsible for the political quagmire Thailand has found itself in for the past 6 years. 

 

These dinosaurs do not want reform and progress, they exist simply to maintain their families influence and regional domintion. 

 

Be in no doubt, their backing and support is only given if their terms are met. 

 

Yes of course it would be naive to think these guys don't get rewards for joining the junta or previously the PTP. 

 

What i find interesting is to see if these guys can keep their support if they swing the junta side. Because if that is possible that means that those power brokers have loads of power and people follow them so in a way people are not politically motivated but aligned with whoever those powerbrokers canvassers say they have to vote for.  

[Eric Loh]

The only possible way that we see the backs of those corrupt ursupers and send a resounding message to the meddling elites is for the lower house to get together and elect the PM.

 

PTP will win most seats in the North and North East of between 220 - 239. I am hoping that the Forward Future Party will win big in Bangkok and Outer Bangkok and vote with PTP to elect the PM. They don’t need to be the coalition party and still can remain as opposition but vote to keep Prayut out. We just can’t trust the Dem anymore.  

 

Then they set motion to re-write the constitution and the 20 years plan. Good luck to that. 

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Shins and hope in the same sentence... funny.  Shin wins were build on promises.

Are you happier with the current status quo or the when the Shins were running the country ?

 

It might have been funny before, but not now.  You have a virtue less, empty headed, nationalistic coward running the country.  You can say the same things about the Shins ?   Thaksin and his sister were never afraid of debate but the entitled brat running the country is, and he wants to continue without being challenged.  Not sure what the Shins did to you, but I actually met people who were targeted by his SLAPP lawsuits.    It was horribly wrong, but current Thailand is worse.  And SLAPPs are here to stay.

[jonclark]

26 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes of course it would be naive to think these guys don't get rewards for joining the junta or previously the PTP. 

 

What i find interesting is to see if these guys can keep their support if they swing the junta side. Because if that is possible that means that those power brokers have loads of power and people follow them so in a way people are not politically motivated but aligned with whoever those powerbrokers canvassers say they have to vote for.  

That is pretty much how Thai politics plays out. 

People in provinces generally do not care for central government. It is the local scene that counts. And due to that people will vote for those local influences favour. 

These local influences can expedite solutions to problems which provincial people may face. So following their advice means their ears will be open in the future should a problem require a solution. For example preferential access to the village fund, or a heads up when a contract comes up for bidding. 

Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. 

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, jonclark said:

That is pretty much how Thai politics plays out. 

People in provinces generally do not care for central government. It is the local scene that counts. And due to that people will vote for those local influences favour. 

These local influences can expedite solutions to problems which provincial people may face. So following their advice means their ears will be open in the future should a problem require a solution. For example preferential access to the village fund, or a heads up when a contract comes up for bidding. 

Scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. 

If that is how politics play out how can people then say there is much PTP /Democrat support when in reality the voters just do as the local powerbrokers say (switching sides whenever it is asked of them) ? Then its like people don't care who is in power as long as the local powerbrokers benefit. That in turn would show the reason why there is not much resistance against the junta.. they keep the powerbrokers happy so nobody protests besides a few die hard supporters of political parties. 

 

But if it works like that (not saying that it does not) why popular policies.. I mean if the powerbrokers hold the power and tell their people how to vote.. extra persuasion is not needed ? I am confused... maybe its a little of both.

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

Are you happier with the current status quo or the when the Shins were running the country ?

 

It might have been funny before, but not now.  You have a virtue less, empty headed, nationalistic coward running the country.  You can say the same things about the Shins ?   Thaksin and his sister were never afraid of debate but the entitled brat running the country is, and he wants to continue without being challenged.  Not sure what the Shins did to you, but I actually met people who were targeted by his SLAPP lawsuits.    It was horribly wrong, but current Thailand is worse.  And SLAPPs are here to stay.

Thaksin never affaid of debate.. when the dems came with the rotten rice they were threatened with jail ... you call that debate.. you should really review what you are saying. The Shins were as bad as the junta is now, they just had less options to threaten their opponents, though their armed terrorist militia did their best during the protests.  

 

Happier now or then.. I would say I am happier now because at least there are no street protest... otherwise there is not much difference between the two both are corrupt.. both cling to power. Though I would not mind to see less of Prayut.. he is far worse as YL in how he handles the media. I am quite bored with Prayut and his bunch, but it was the same for YL and her bunch.. neither group would ever accept criticism or change their policies after criticism. (neither will the Dems i think) Whoever is in power here becomes arrogant and reigns without thinking of other views. 

 

But really, I can't say that either government has had much influence on my lifestyle or how I feel. They both have made it harder for us to live here neither of them ever did anything for us expats. I can only say my life has been much better now then back then. But can't attribute that to the junta.. just to progress and development. 

[sawadee1947]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

GENERAL Prayut Chan-o-cha is building a network of political allies to generate support for his bid to become the prime minister after the next election, analysts say.

Sure, that is the real reason to delay election. Up to now he is not ready but unfortunately he'll be next year when elections will be held maybe......However if Thai people are as stubborn as they are he has to delay elections again and again and again and......

[yellowboat]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Happier now or then.. I would say I am happier now because at least there are no street protest...

He did awful things, but he spoke to the media without being a coward.  What makes you think these street protests were not allowed by those in power now ?  Most expats and Thais I met were happier before the current coup.  The Shins were pro business and the country had hope back then.  The junta is pro golden circle and Thailand is now rudderless.  We all would prefer those who know how to steer, as apposed to those who have child like fits or have expensive jewelry fetishes. 

[Somchai Logic]

6 hours ago, Oziex1 said:

Allies? A network of influential thugs, he feels right at home with this lot.

Allies??? I only saw a bunch of shaking Sicophants 

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

He did awful things, but he spoke to the media without being a coward.  What makes you think these street protests were not allowed by those in power now ?  Most expats and Thais I met were happier before the current coup.  The Shins were pro business and the country had hope back then.  The junta is pro golden circle and Thailand is now rudderless.  We all would prefer those who know how to steer, as apposed to those who have child like fits or have expensive jewelry fetishes. 

I wonder why expats would be happier then.. because it does not really influence us.. not at all. Tell me how the immigration rules changed ? (both governments made it more tough to live here) How else did it influence expats ?  Most expats I spoke with dislike the junta and shins.. and say there is no difference... except those that like party and prostitution.. i mean there was a crackdown on that so those into those vices have a harder time now.

[jonclark]

49 minutes ago, robblok said:

If that is how politics play out how can people then say there is much PTP /Democrat support when in reality the voters just do as the local powerbrokers say (switching sides whenever it is asked of them) ? Then its like people don't care who is in power as long as the local powerbrokers benefit. That in turn would show the reason why there is not much resistance against the junta.. they keep the powerbrokers happy so nobody protests besides a few die hard supporters of political parties. 

 

But if it works like that (not saying that it does not) why popular policies.. I mean if the powerbrokers hold the power and tell their people how to vote.. extra persuasion is not needed ? I am confused... maybe its a little of both.

When you look back over the past 15-20 years there has been very little to choose between the policies of the major parties. Of course there was all the political mud slinging and name calling to spice things up a bit. But with the exception of Taksins first campaign, there was very little to choose between the parties in terms of policy. The net result for provincial folk was pretty similar in terms of outcomes. 

 

Of course they all diligently read the manifestos and attended the rallies and listened to the debates on thai political forums so they could make an informed decision... Or not as is more likely. 

 

But the biggest influence on how to vote would have been local. The local Phui Yai would throw there weight behind their preferred candidate, maybe put on a show at a temple and been seen in each others company. 

 

So it benefits the locals to align themselves to the candidate that has the most local influence. 

 

Newin Chinchob held massive influence as kingmaker within PTP for the Surin / buriram area and he was frequently courted by the PTP leadership. His influence and picking of candidates that could deal with local problems was in part to do with the massive victories PTP experienced in Issan. 

 

In a society as poor as rural Thailand has, that is built on a strongly defined local social hierarchy these players hold the keys to the kingdom for those in Bangkok. 

 

Maybe now the voters are more savvy.. I am open to that but not yet convinced. And judging by prayuts actions employing these people as advisors neither is he. 

[MrJohnson]

The General will be PM for a long time yet, either at the ballot box or the end of a gun.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Hi,

 

No I don't agree, the protest started because of the Thaksin amnesty. That was what brought the people out. I walked among those people I had friends who protested. They were against corruption and the Thaksin amnesty. It was only until later that Suthep became involved. Had Thaksin not been such a fool to push his amnesty the spark would never have ignited. 

 

I know you want to rewrite history but I wont let you. Suthep only came into play later after the genuine protest erupted against the amnesty. You could see how the ranks swelled at night when the office workers joined after working. (i was there.. were you.. did you mingle with them ?) I had a close friend that went there every night with her friends. She is an office worker. 

 

I only accept I was wrong to think the junta would stay short.. this was unlike any other coup before they always left around a year later. I still feel its good because otherwise the 33 billion fake G2G deals would not have been uncovered and the criminal YL would still be here. 

 

Do you accept that YL Thaksin amnesty set it all alight.. Without it the massive corruption (33 billion more then the cost of the subs) would have gone unnoticed.. and the lying YL would have come off without punishment. Yes I investigated.. no no corruption (33 billion pff).

"I only accept I was wrong to think the junta would stay short.. this was unlike any other coup before they always left around a year later."

 

Really?

 

From 1958 to 1991 all Prime Ministers were military men who came to power by coups, were replacement Prime Ministers appointed by the military, or were "government" appointed Prime Ministers with the consent of the military.

 

The military appointed a Prime Minister to its liking after the 2006 coup, but when the 2008 elections resulted in a Prime Minister it didn't like, it engineered two years of Abhisit rule and kept him in power with a bloody crackdown on protesters calling for elections.

 

Funny how some people defend a military that stages coups to accommodate protesters opposing elections, and fires bullets into protesters calling for elections.  The amnesty bill you cite as the prompt for the 2013-2014 protests was quickly dropped.  After that the protest were all about toppling an elected government and preventing new elections.

 

Fun fact; the only elected Prime Minister in Thailand's history who was allowed to finish his term in elected office was Thaksin Shinawatra. 

 

The current military government wrote a constitution and had it "approved" in a sham referendum that it hopes will leave it in control behind a veneer of powerless elected government. However if it feels it is losing control it will stage another coup, with the help of the privileged elite and Bangkok middle class that fear losing political and economic power in a democratic government.

 

 

 

[bannork]

The poster who said Thaksin was not afraid to debate- sorry but that's so wrong. He refused to debate Abhisit on TV as did Yingluk. It's not Thai culture said Plodprasop defending the decision to not debate.

[yellowboat]

49 minutes ago, robblok said:

I wonder why expats would be happier then.. because it does not really influence us.. not at all. Tell me how the immigration rules changed ? (both governments made it more tough to live here) How else did it influence expats ?  Most expats I spoke with dislike the junta and shins.. and say there is no difference... except those that like party and prostitution.. i mean there was a crackdown on that so those into those vices have a harder time now.

After 2014, things got much harder.  Business visa became very hard to come by.  I believe educational visas tightened up dramatically too.  Immigration tightened far beyond most countries in Asian including China.  China offers some countries a two month, 10 year multi entry visa, and they have better prices on alcohol and better nightlife.  Retirement visas and company sponsored visa were probably went unaffected. 

 

We all know the ED visas were a joke back in the day, but they became a highly restricted after 2014 compared to other Asian countries. 

 

We don't talk to the same expats, though, to be fair, both parties could have done better jobs by doing nothing. 

[robblok]

41 minutes ago, yellowboat said:

After 2014, things got much harder.  Business visa became very hard to come by.  I believe educational visas tightened up dramatically too.  Immigration tightened far beyond most countries in Asian including China.  China offers some countries a two month, 10 year multi entry visa, and they have better prices on alcohol and better nightlife.  Retirement visas and company sponsored visa were probably went unaffected. 

 

We all know the ED visas were a joke back in the day, but they became a highly restricted after 2014 compared to other Asian countries. 

 

We don't talk to the same expats, though, to be fair, both parties could have done better jobs by doing nothing. 

Before 2014 it already got harder for the ED visa.. and it was Thaksin who reinstated the 90 day reporting. So seriously neither government did us any favors. But besides the visa's Thai governments don't have much impact on my life. I love the debate here but in reality not much changes for us and when things change it often not gets any better.