Pigeon feeding Tha Phae gate

[piewarmer]

Tourists are enjoying feeding the pigeons at Tha Phae gate, These birds can be a health hazard but there's money to be made.

The vendors keep turning the signs the wrong way around and move them far away from the gate... problem solved.

If you wonder where the dead pigeons are, the rats sort that out, often in daylight which frightens some people.

 

 

 

[orang37]

I've found the fresh ones deliciously chewy.

 

~o:37;

[EL159]

Cant understand the fascination for Chinese tourists feeding these filthy disease ridden health hazard birds. Are there no live birds in China for them to be so excited by this activity?

[Sparkles]

1 hour ago, EL159 said:

Cant understand the fascination for Chinese tourists feeding these filthy disease ridden health hazard birds. Are there no live birds in China for them to be so excited by this activity?

Probably same reason why you see no dolphins in Thailand .......all been eaten

[BobBKK]

Feral pigeons are 'flying rats' they carry diseases, there poo degrades buildings with it's acidic content. Why anyone thinks it's 'fun' to feed them is beyond me. The only good pigeon is a DEAD pigeon. 

[Dante99]

17 hours ago, EL159 said:

Cant understand the fascination for Chinese tourists feeding these filthy disease ridden health hazard birds. Are there no live birds in China for them to be so excited by this activity?

If those birds were in China they would have been in someone's stomach long ago.

 

 

[Antonymous]

4 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Feral pigeons are 'flying rats' they carry diseases, there poo degrades buildings with it's acidic content. Why anyone thinks it's 'fun' to feed them is beyond me. The only good pigeon is a DEAD pigeon. 

Here are what the experts say (from Do birds spread disease?):

• On the subject of pigeons and disease, Dr. Nina Marano (an epidemiologist) states that “Pigeons are no more filthy than any other wild bird or animal,” while Dr. Arturo Casadevall (an expert in pigeon faeces) states, “Pigeons are no different than other animals. When it comes to spreading disease, they don’t stand out.” Blechman, Andrew D. (2006). Pigeons: The fascinating saga of the world’s most revered and reviled bird. Grove Press, New York.

• Mike Everett, spokesman for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds said, in The Big Issue Magazine, February 2001: “The whole ‘rats with wings’ thing is just emotive nonsense. There is no evidence to show that they (pigeons) spread disease.”

• The UK’s Chief Veterinary Officer, when addressing the House of Lords in 2000 on the issue of intimate human contact with the then 7,000-8,000 pigeons feeding in Trafalgar Square, was asked if this represented a risk to human health. The Chief Veterinary Officer told The House that in his opinion it did not.

• Charlotte Donnelly, an American bird control expert told the Cincinnati Environment Advisory Council in her report to them: “The truth is that the vast majority of people are at little or no health risk from pigeons and probably have a greater chance of being struck by lightening than contracting a serious disease from pigeons.”

• Guy Merchant, Director of The Pigeon Control Advisory Service (PiCAS International) says, when talking about the transmission of disease by pigeons: “If we believed everything we read in the media about the health risks associated with pigeons, and the farcical propaganda distributed by the pest control industry, we would never leave our homes. The fact of the matter is that there is probably a greater risk to human health from eating intensively farmed supermarket chicken and eggs, or having contact with domestic pets such as cats, dogs and caged birds, than there is from contact with pigeons.”

• David A Palmer (B.V.Sc., M.R.C.V.S) said in an article entitled ‘Pigeon Lung Disease Fatality and Health Risk from Ferals’: “Obviously, since all these Allergic Extrinsic Alveolitis disease syndromes rely on the involved person having a very specific allergy before any disease, involving respiratory distress and very unusually death, can possibly be seen, it really makes absolute nonsense for a popular daily newspaper to suggest that pigeons present a health hazard and presumably need eliminating for the well-being of the nation’s health.”

• David Taylor BVMS FRCVS FZS: “In 50 years professional work as a veterinary surgeon I cannot recall one case of a zoonosis in a human that was related to pigeons. On the other hand I know of, and have seen, examples of human disease related to contact with dogs, cats, cattle, monkeys, sheep, camels, budgies, parrots, cockatoos, aquarium fish and even dolphins, on many occasions.”

• The Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, the New York City Department of Health, and the Arizona Department of Health all agree that diseases associated with pigeons present little risk to people. “We have never documented a pigeon to human transmission in the state of Arizona,” said Mira J Leslie, Arizona’s state public health veterinarian.

• In response to questions about the effects of pigeons on human health, in 1986 the Association of Pigeon Veterinarians issued a statement that concludes, “…to our knowledge, the raising, keeping, and the exercising of pigeons and doves represents no more of a health hazard than the keeping of other communal or domestic pets.”

As you can see, pigeons pose little threat to us. However, if you aren’t convinced, please visit the following websites: http://www.picasuk.com/index.html and http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/zoonoses/

[pest]

Two just fills me ...if not a jam sarnie later will

[piewarmer]

So get rid of the signs and enjoy.

[connda]

23 hours ago, EL159 said:

Cant understand the fascination for Chinese tourists feeding these filthy disease ridden health hazard birds. Are there no live birds in China for them to be so excited by this activity?

I remember feeding the pigeons at Trafalgar Square in London as a kid in the 1950s, well before we knew that pigeons were 'filthy disease ridden health hazard birds'.  No doubt the locals where pining away: "Cant understand the fascination for Yank expats feeding these filthy disease ridden health hazard birds. Are there no live birds in America for them to be so excited by this activity?"  However, can't say I knew any of my Yank mates who dropped dead from feeding pigeons. 
The parents were much more worried about the rats, although the family Lucas Terrier made short work of any rodent cheeky enough to venture into the boundaries of our property.  But in retrospect, the Lucas Terrier liked pigeons and pretty much any other small animal that moved too.  Maybe they need to stake out a pack of Lucas Terriers to patrol Thapea Gate. 

Edited April 29, 2018 by connda

[AsiaHand]

23 hours ago, orang37 said:

I've found the fresh ones deliciously chewy.

 

~o:37;

Ah Yes, Squab it is.

[Gillyflower]

I love pigeons to eat, usually stuffed with foie gras.  I'm talking obviously of either wild  or captivity bred ones. The upper class Brits of the 18th century knew how to prepare them.  There are some delicious recipes.  Squabs are eaten at 30 days, older than that there are different ways.

 

But as for those bl...y birds at Tha Phai Gate......they are a nuisance. The tourists get quite annoyed if you try making your way through and disturbing everything and everyone.  Especially the selfies.

[Whitson]

The pigeons themseves are not generally diseased. It is the guano that poses a health problem when allowed to build in significant quantities.

When dry the pathogen spores become airborne and pose a significant health hazard.

Histoplasmosis

Candidiasis

Crypytococcosis

Psitticosis

To mention but a few, try googling bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com or Panther Pest Control or Rentokil. Indeed a simple seach for 'diseases cause by pigeon poo' seems to evidence that it is the guano that is the problem.

One breeding pair of pidgeons can gecome 18 bird in a year in good conditions.

They make a terrible mess and quite frankly I would not want my children to be exposed to the possible dangers.

Pidgeons in the wild..ok! Pidgeons in cities and towns roosting in buildings..no.

I wish the animals no harm but they simply dont co-exist well with humans in built up areas.

[Acemaker]

5 hours ago, Antonymous said:

Here are what the experts say (from Do birds spread disease?):

• On the subject of pigeons and disease, Dr. Nina Marano (an epidemiologist) states that “Pigeons are no more filthy than any other wild bird or animal,” while Dr. Arturo Casadevall (an expert in pigeon faeces) states, “Pigeons are no different than other animals. When it comes to spreading disease, they don’t stand out.” Blechman, Andrew D. (2006). Pigeons: The fascinating saga of the world’s most revered and reviled bird. Grove Press, New York.

• Mike Everett, spokesman for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds said, in The Big Issue Magazine, February 2001: “The whole ‘rats with wings’ thing is just emotive nonsense. There is no evidence to show that they (pigeons) spread disease.”

• The UK’s Chief Veterinary Officer, when addressing the House of Lords in 2000 on the issue of intimate human contact with the then 7,000-8,000 pigeons feeding in Trafalgar Square, was asked if this represented a risk to human health. The Chief Veterinary Officer told The House that in his opinion it did not.

• Charlotte Donnelly, an American bird control expert told the Cincinnati Environment Advisory Council in her report to them: “The truth is that the vast majority of people are at little or no health risk from pigeons and probably have a greater chance of being struck by lightening than contracting a serious disease from pigeons.”

• Guy Merchant, Director of The Pigeon Control Advisory Service (PiCAS International) says, when talking about the transmission of disease by pigeons: “If we believed everything we read in the media about the health risks associated with pigeons, and the farcical propaganda distributed by the pest control industry, we would never leave our homes. The fact of the matter is that there is probably a greater risk to human health from eating intensively farmed supermarket chicken and eggs, or having contact with domestic pets such as cats, dogs and caged birds, than there is from contact with pigeons.”

• David A Palmer (B.V.Sc., M.R.C.V.S) said in an article entitled ‘Pigeon Lung Disease Fatality and Health Risk from Ferals’: “Obviously, since all these Allergic Extrinsic Alveolitis disease syndromes rely on the involved person having a very specific allergy before any disease, involving respiratory distress and very unusually death, can possibly be seen, it really makes absolute nonsense for a popular daily newspaper to suggest that pigeons present a health hazard and presumably need eliminating for the well-being of the nation’s health.”

• David Taylor BVMS FRCVS FZS: “In 50 years professional work as a veterinary surgeon I cannot recall one case of a zoonosis in a human that was related to pigeons. On the other hand I know of, and have seen, examples of human disease related to contact with dogs, cats, cattle, monkeys, sheep, camels, budgies, parrots, cockatoos, aquarium fish and even dolphins, on many occasions.”

• The Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, the New York City Department of Health, and the Arizona Department of Health all agree that diseases associated with pigeons present little risk to people. “We have never documented a pigeon to human transmission in the state of Arizona,” said Mira J Leslie, Arizona’s state public health veterinarian.

• In response to questions about the effects of pigeons on human health, in 1986 the Association of Pigeon Veterinarians issued a statement that concludes, “…to our knowledge, the raising, keeping, and the exercising of pigeons and doves represents no more of a health hazard than the keeping of other communal or domestic pets.”

As you can see, pigeons pose little threat to us. However, if you aren’t convinced, please visit the following websites: http://www.picasuk.com/index.html and http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/zoonoses/

Who gives a Flying Rat about the Stats, there Vermin end of.

[jak2002003]

26 minutes ago, Acemaker said:

Who gives a Flying Rat about the Stats, there Vermin end of.

Yes.. why listen to qualified scientists and FACTS?

 

Just make something up in your own head and believe it no matter what evidence to the contrary is shown to you.

 

You are more likely to catch a disease from another human being than a pigeon.

 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by jak2002003

[CNXBKKMAN]

On 28/04/2018 at 4:03 PM, Sparkles said:

Probably same reason why you see no dolphins in Thailand .......all been eaten

I haven't been for a while but i have seen pink dolphins around the Don Sak ferry to Koh Samui on more than one occasion.

[ianwheldale]

Feeding pigeons was stopped in Trafalgar Square many years ago for the health reasons described in this thread. Not rocket science!

[Lacessit]

What on earth is the problem? Don't go to Thapae Gate if it worries you. Duh.

[tryasimight]

4 hours ago, Whitson said:

The pigeons themseves are not generally diseased. It is the guano that poses a health problem when allowed to build in significant quantities.

When dry the pathogen spores become airborne and pose a significant health hazard.

Histoplasmosis

Candidiasis

Crypytococcosis

Psitticosis

To mention but a few, try googling bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com or Panther Pest Control or Rentokil. Indeed a simple seach for 'diseases cause by pigeon poo' seems to evidence that it is the guano that is the problem.

One breeding pair of pidgeons can gecome 18 bird in a year in good conditions.

They make a terrible mess and quite frankly I would not want my children to be exposed to the possible dangers.

Pidgeons in the wild..ok! Pidgeons in cities and towns roosting in buildings..no.

I wish the animals no harm but they simply dont co-exist well with humans in built up areas.

Apparently they co-exist perfectly well.

[piewarmer]

There used to be a bloke who hung around the old wall there. he had crackers that made a loud bang.. It was fun watching the pigeons scatter and the confused tourists.

I haven't seen Mr crackers around for a few months.

[jacko45k]

On 28/04/2018 at 2:52 PM, EL159 said:

Cant understand the fascination for Chinese tourists feeding these filthy disease ridden health hazard birds. Are there no live birds in China for them to be so excited by this activity?

Nope, Mao had them all killed off as they took food from the mouths of the people. He made a mistake there as bugs do it more.

[fantom]

14 hours ago, Acemaker said:

Who gives a Flying Rat about the Stats, there Vermin end of.

Do you mean they're vermin?

[fantom]

5 hours ago, hyku1147 said:

Unscrupulous louts would import the Spanish Desnudo Nubil pigeon whose hypnotic songs  seduce young women in to dancing naked.

Thankyou for introducing the only sensible post on this thread.

Unscrupulous louts have the wherewithal to bring real happiness to the people and should be encouraged.

[Ulysses G.]

On 4/28/2018 at 9:55 PM, Antonymous said:

Here are what the experts say (from Do birds spread disease?):

• On the subject of pigeons and disease, Dr. Nina Marano (an epidemiologist) states that “Pigeons are no more filthy than any other wild bird or animal,” while Dr. Arturo Casadevall (an expert in pigeon faeces) states, “Pigeons are no different than other animals. When it comes to spreading disease, they don’t stand out.” Blechman, Andrew D. (2006). Pigeons: The fascinating saga of the world’s most revered and reviled bird. Grove Press, New York.

• Mike Everett, spokesman for the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds said, in The Big Issue Magazine, February 2001: “The whole ‘rats with wings’ thing is just emotive nonsense. There is no evidence to show that they (pigeons) spread disease.”

• The UK’s Chief Veterinary Officer, when addressing the House of Lords in 2000 on the issue of intimate human contact with the then 7,000-8,000 pigeons feeding in Trafalgar Square, was asked if this represented a risk to human health. The Chief Veterinary Officer told The House that in his opinion it did not.

• Charlotte Donnelly, an American bird control expert told the Cincinnati Environment Advisory Council in her report to them: “The truth is that the vast majority of people are at little or no health risk from pigeons and probably have a greater chance of being struck by lightening than contracting a serious disease from pigeons.”

• Guy Merchant, Director of The Pigeon Control Advisory Service (PiCAS International) says, when talking about the transmission of disease by pigeons: “If we believed everything we read in the media about the health risks associated with pigeons, and the farcical propaganda distributed by the pest control industry, we would never leave our homes. The fact of the matter is that there is probably a greater risk to human health from eating intensively farmed supermarket chicken and eggs, or having contact with domestic pets such as cats, dogs and caged birds, than there is from contact with pigeons.”

• David A Palmer (B.V.Sc., M.R.C.V.S) said in an article entitled ‘Pigeon Lung Disease Fatality and Health Risk from Ferals’: “Obviously, since all these Allergic Extrinsic Alveolitis disease syndromes rely on the involved person having a very specific allergy before any disease, involving respiratory distress and very unusually death, can possibly be seen, it really makes absolute nonsense for a popular daily newspaper to suggest that pigeons present a health hazard and presumably need eliminating for the well-being of the nation’s health.”

• David Taylor BVMS FRCVS FZS: “In 50 years professional work as a veterinary surgeon I cannot recall one case of a zoonosis in a human that was related to pigeons. On the other hand I know of, and have seen, examples of human disease related to contact with dogs, cats, cattle, monkeys, sheep, camels, budgies, parrots, cockatoos, aquarium fish and even dolphins, on many occasions.”

• The Center for Disease Control in Atlanta, the New York City Department of Health, and the Arizona Department of Health all agree that diseases associated with pigeons present little risk to people. “We have never documented a pigeon to human transmission in the state of Arizona,” said Mira J Leslie, Arizona’s state public health veterinarian.

• In response to questions about the effects of pigeons on human health, in 1986 the Association of Pigeon Veterinarians issued a statement that concludes, “…to our knowledge, the raising, keeping, and the exercising of pigeons and doves represents no more of a health hazard than the keeping of other communal or domestic pets.”

As you can see, pigeons pose little threat to us. However, if you aren’t convinced, please visit the following websites: http://www.picasuk.com/index.html and http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org/zoonoses/

Thanks for the FACTS.

[whatsupdoc]

10 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Thanks for the FACTS.

Just google 'pigeon' and 'disease' and you will find many more FACTS (but very contradictory to earlier mentioned FACTS).

If some 'experts' make claims that are very contradictory to what is commonly understood I would be very cautious about immediately believing them....

[jak2002003]

On ‎29‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:48 PM, ianwheldale said:

Feeding pigeons was stopped in Trafalgar Square many years ago for the health reasons described in this thread. Not rocket science!

Not really the reason.

 

It was because pigeon numbers had got out of control and local business owners were complaining about the birds droppings on their buildings.  

 

Think how many thousands of them there were.. yet no case of a singe human getting sick form them... despite kids crawling about on the floor and people letting the birds land all over them.

 

Also the pest control companies saw a great opportunity to make endless money by culling the pigeons (which they know is no long term solution), and spreading lies about the 'dirty disease ridden flying rats' so ensure public and political support.

 

Please take a moment to read this article.  

 

www.savethepigeons.org/disease.html

 

 

[BobBKK]

On 5/1/2018 at 10:48 PM, Ulysses G. said:

Thanks for the FACTS.

Feral pigeons live in almost every large city in the world. The feeding of pigeons by humans, deliberately or accidentally, allows the build‐up of large populations that can cause a variety of problems, primarily the fouling of buildings and monuments by their droppings. Excreta of wild birds are a well‐known source of pathogenic microorganisms that can cause infection in man. The most important ectoparasites of feral pigeons are the red blood mite, Dermanyssus gallinae, and the pigeon tick, Argas reflexus, both of which can migrate into human living space when they lose their natural hosts. The bites of the red blood mite are irritating but harmless, whereas the pigeon tick can cause severe health problems to predisposed persons. After repeated bites from A. reflexus, people can develop IgE‐mediated (type I) allergy, which in extreme situations may lead to life‐threatening symptoms of anaphylactic shock. So far, one fatality due to A. reflexusderiving from feral pigeons has been reported. In the case of parasitic infestations of humans, the source must be removed by excluding pigeons from further breeding and by disinfection of the environment of pigeon‐breeding sites.

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1744-7348.2005.00029.x

 

I can find many academic articles on feral pigeons and they are a menace for a variety of reasons and health does not, I grant you, have to be top of the list. They are dirty and their acidic droppings destroy building. We are not talking domesticated pigeons here and feral pigeons are a menace as are feral dogs and cats.

[EL159]

Weird sight yesterday at Thapae Gate.....A Chinese couple in full wedding outfits ( him in suit and dicky bow, her in full flowing long white wedding dress) were having their "pre wedding" photos done, leaning against the old brick wall in the square. In the foreground was the photographer and a Thai chap who was deliberately throwing down bird food right in front of the bride & groom, so that all the pigeons gathered there to be included as part of the wedding photos! Romantic wedding photos including hundreds of "rats with wings" !!! How charming and cute.....not!

[jak2002003]

7 hours ago, BobBKK said:

Feral pigeons live in almost every large city in the world. The feeding of pigeons by humans, deliberately or accidentally, allows the build‐up of large populations that can cause a variety of problems, primarily the fouling of buildings and monuments by their droppings. Excreta of wild birds are a well‐known source of pathogenic microorganisms that can cause infection in man. The most important ectoparasites of feral pigeons are the red blood mite, Dermanyssus gallinae, and the pigeon tick, Argas reflexus, both of which can migrate into human living space when they lose their natural hosts. The bites of the red blood mite are irritating but harmless, whereas the pigeon tick can cause severe health problems to predisposed persons. After repeated bites from A. reflexus, people can develop IgE‐mediated (type I) allergy, which in extreme situations may lead to life‐threatening symptoms of anaphylactic shock. So far, one fatality due to A. reflexusderiving from feral pigeons has been reported. In the case of parasitic infestations of humans, the source must be removed by excluding pigeons from further breeding and by disinfection of the environment of pigeon‐breeding sites.

 

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1744-7348.2005.00029.x

 

I can find many academic articles on feral pigeons and they are a menace for a variety of reasons and health does not, I grant you, have to be top of the list. They are dirty and their acidic droppings destroy building. We are not talking domesticated pigeons here and feral pigeons are a menace as are feral dogs and cats.

So out of million and millions of humans on the planet, you can only find 1 case of one single human being getting a disease (allergic) from a pigeon?

 

I don't know a single person who has been bitten by a pigeon tick or mite.  The red blood mite can live on any bird and is more common on chickens.. so you would have to kill all birds to avoid it anyway. and all the chickens in the village too while you are at it. Your study says 'after REPEATED bites... to a PREDISPOSED person the ticks can cause an allergy... this is billions of one chance... less than people that have allergies to peanuts, eggs, and bee stings!  

 

Another common myth is that pigeons droppings corrode buildings, but these droppings are NEITHER ACIDIC NOR ALKALINE and cannot corrode building materials. But pigeons are a convenient visible target for anyone who would rather pin the blame on them, rather than the sulphur dioxide of car exhausts and acid rain.

 

Feral pigeons are not as bad as a menace as feral dogs and cats.  They don't bite people or maul children.  They don't case cars, motorbikes.  They are not noisy barking throughout the night.  They don't kill other animals and destroy the natural wildlife like feral cats either. Domestic dogs and cats are more a disease threat the humans.  Why are you not advocating destroying peoples pets too... as they are more dangerous?  

 

You, like many people, have fallen for misinformation the pest control companies put out to scare people into giving them business (to control pigeons).  

 

 

 

 

[whatsupdoc]

22 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

So out of million and millions of humans on the planet, you can only find 1 case of one single human being getting a disease (allergic) from a pigeon?

 

I don't know a single person who has been bitten by a pigeon tick or mite.  The red blood mite can live on any bird and is more common on chickens.. so you would have to kill all birds to avoid it anyway. and all the chickens in the village too while you are at it. Your study says 'after REPEATED bites... to a PREDISPOSED person the ticks can cause an allergy... this is billions of one chance... less than people that have allergies to peanuts, eggs, and bee stings!  

 

Another common myth is that pigeons droppings corrode buildings, but these droppings are NEITHER ACIDIC NOR ALKALINE and cannot corrode building materials. But pigeons are a convenient visible target for anyone who would rather pin the blame on them, rather than the sulphur dioxide of car exhausts and acid rain.

 

Feral pigeons are not as bad as a menace as feral dogs and cats.  They don't bite people or maul children.  They don't case cars, motorbikes.  They are not noisy barking throughout the night.  They don't kill other animals and destroy the natural wildlife like feral cats either. Domestic dogs and cats are more a disease threat the humans.  Why are you not advocating destroying peoples pets too... as they are more dangerous?  

 

You, like many people, have fallen for misinformation the pest control companies put out to scare people into giving them business (to control pigeons).  

 

 

 

 

To claim that feral pigeons are not noisy is stretching it a bit isn't it??

I hate the sound of pigeons (and probably more so than the barking of dogs).