Is "Farang" Derogatory?

[Kieran00001]

  On 5/3/2018 at 12:52 PM, Jingthing said:

I don't perceive it that way. Enjoy your bubble.

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I don't think I would enjoy your bubble, it sounds awful.

[Kieran00001]

  On 5/3/2018 at 12:51 PM, grollies said:

oh.........kay, so probably, before said Taffy came-a-stealing, numerous people were called Taffy, right? Just happened that one of them had a predilection for thievery, yes?

 

But that doesn't define the derivation of the name Taffy does it?

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Yes, it seems that the English were calling Welsh men Taffy a long time before the song.  Not sure that the song is evidence of the welsh being thieves though as the English and the Welsh were not all getting along all that well, personally I wouldn't trust the English.

 

And the very end of my post does address the derivation of the word, it was claimed in 1708 that Taffy was a corruption of David, but no doubt it was actually a corruption of Dafydd (I spelled it completely wrong in the last post), the names evolved separately from Dawid.

[Jingthing]

  On 5/3/2018 at 1:06 PM, Kieran00001 said:

 
I don't think I would enjoy your bubble, it sounds awful.

Realness.

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[Kieran00001]

  On 5/3/2018 at 1:56 PM, Jingthing said:

Realness.

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Sure, every time you hear farang you think you are being racially abused, very real for you, but if I were that paranoid I would be getting medication, each to their own.

[Jingthing]

  On 5/3/2018 at 2:03 PM, Kieran00001 said:

 
Sure, every time you hear farang you think you are being racially abused, very real for you, but if I were that paranoid I would be getting medication, each to their own.

Nope. That's not how I experienced it but thanks a bunch for your concern.

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[TheLobster]

  On 5/2/2018 at 6:01 PM, Jingthing said:

Often but not always.

My feeling is that Thailand has no intention to ever be truly "multicultural" like the West.

What percentage of Thai citizens are caucasians?

In other words, how small a fraction of one percent is it?

Whatever the teeny tiny number it is, there is no interest in seeing that ever grow. 

So if you like getting called farang or not, grin and bear it.

Not your country. 

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Always, it doesn't bother me at all.

Some Thai people call me a 'farang' and think I don't understand what they mean. 

Whatever 'the teeny tiny number it is, there is no interest in seeing that ever grow' 

555 every Thai wants to be a white Farang. 

Every Thai we meet thinks my white half Thai child is amazing with their beautiful white skin.

 

I've seen you around, this is what you do. Go annoy someone else.

[Jingthing]

As I've already said, it doesn't bother me either.

But I still prefer to be aware of what's going on. 

[CMHomeboy78]

  On 5/2/2018 at 3:18 AM, Berkshire said:

Your premise and examples are completely wrong.  Firstly, farang does not mean foreigner, it means Caucasian person.  As for the USA, we are obsessed about race.  There is constant reference to one's race or ethnicity, whether African-American, or Hispanic, or Asian, or Muslim...it's constant.  So you are wrong on all counts.   

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  On 5/2/2018 at 3:43 AM, Berkshire said:

Agree...except "Asian," like "farang," in itself aren't derogatory, regardless of the context.  If one wanted to insult an Asian in America, they'd use terms like "Chink" or "Jap" or "slant-eye"...etc.  Just saying "dumb Asian" or "dumb farang" doesn't make the words Asian or farang derogatory, but they are insults.  It'd be the same as saying "dumb American."  Yes, an insult, but the word American isn't derogatory.     

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Your posts answer the question and sum up the topic very well.

Nobody who has lived among Thais for any length of time could think that the term "farang", when used alone, is a racial insult or derogatory in any way.

It has been part of the Thai lexicon since the early 16th century when the Ayudhya court of King Rama T'ibodi II was first visited by Portuguese envoys sent by Afonso d'Albuquerque from the recently captured port of Malacca.

At that time, Persians were established in Siam as shah bandars of the ports and were present at court. Their term for Europeans, farangi, was taken by the Thais as farang and has been used ever since to describe Europeans and people of European descent.

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a credible Thai historical source that uses the word in a derogatory sense. 

When challenged on this point, people who think the term is an insult are unable to produce anything at all relating to Siam or modern Thailand that supports their contention.

In recent years there has been a small expat clique in Chiang Mai that has been actively promoting the mistaken notion that "farang" is a racial insult. These high profile troublemakers have considerable influence among newcomers and the end result is to cause them to take offence where none is intended.

The word is useful and specific. To be called a foreigner - kohn dtahng pra-thet - would lump us together with the hordes of Africa, Asia, and everywhere else in the world outside Thailand.

Don't make a big deal about being called a farang... it's who we are.

[Rhys]

... it is all in the way "farang" is used, spoken, and gesticulated.  Now where is some of Tha Poontang..

[grollies]

  On 5/4/2018 at 6:09 AM, CMHomeboy78 said:

 

Your posts answer the question and sum up the topic very well.

Nobody who has lived among Thais for any length of time could think that the term "farang", when used alone, is a racial insult or derogatory in any way.

It has been part of the Thai lexicon since the early 16th century when the Ayudhya court of King Rama T'ibodi II was first visited by Portuguese envoys sent by Afonso d'Albuquerque from the recently captured port of Malacca.

At that time, Persians were established in Siam as shah bandars of the ports and were present at court. Their term for Europeans, farangi, was taken by the Thais as farang and has been used ever since to describe Europeans and people of European descent.

To the best of my knowledge there has never been a credible Thai historical source that uses the word in a derogatory sense. 

When challenged on this point, people who think the term is an insult are unable to produce anything at all relating to Siam or modern Thailand that supports their contention.

In recent years there has been a small expat clique in Chiang Mai that has been actively promoting the mistaken notion that "farang" is a racial insult. These high profile troublemakers have considerable influence among newcomers and the end result is to cause them to take offence where none is intended.

The word is useful and specific. To be called a foreigner - kohn dtahng pra-thet - would lump us together with the hordes of Africa, Asia, and everywhere else in the world outside Thailand.

Don't make a big deal about being called a farang... it's who we are.

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[TheLobster]

  On 5/4/2018 at 6:09 AM, CMHomeboy78 said:

Nobody who has lived among Thais for any length of time could think that the term "farang", when used alone, is a racial insult or derogatory in any way.

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I disagree. I've lived here for a while, Thai people I socialise with never use that word when I'm talking to them, members of the Thai family who don't like me being part of the 'family' always refer to me as 'farang'.

[CMHomeboy78]

  On 5/5/2018 at 4:17 PM, TheLobster said:

I disagree. I've lived here for a while, Thai people I socialise with never use that word when I'm talking to them, members of the Thai family who don't like me being part of the 'family' always refer to me as 'farang'.

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Yes, some Thais avoid the word out of what they perceive to be the hyper-sensitivities of farangs. It all depends on whom you are with. I've seen two generations of Thais come of age and the word is used often and casually  by most of them with no intent to offend. 

Obviously, there are Thais who dislike Europeans and people of European descent - thus to them, the very name farang rings foul. A distinction has to be made between people like that, usually found in tourist areas, and the rest of the population who are more inclined to be friendly toward us.

The term was never used as an insult in the past. Why consider it to be one now? 

Incidentally, if the word does become demonized and verboten, what polite equivalent would replace it?

What would be equally concise and specific?

[Dick Crank]

"your different", "you don't belong", "your not one of us", "your not important enough to use your real name"

 

would you you call someone a foreigner who was visiting or living in your home country? Problem solved.

 

 

[bert bloggs]

The word Farang is only used when people are talking about foreigners in general ,my Thai family never use the word when talking to or about me they use my name  , just the same as if we were having a conversation about someone from another country and not a family member , none of my British family ever call my wife  the Thai they just use her name ..

[Goldbear]

I don't consider the word to be derogatory. 

[TheLobster]

  On 5/5/2018 at 4:17 PM, TheLobster said:

I disagree. I've lived here for a while, Thai people I socialise with never use that word when I'm talking to them, members of the Thai family who don't like me being part of the 'family' always refer to me as 'farang'.

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  On 5/6/2018 at 6:15 AM, CMHomeboy78 said:

Yes, some Thais avoid the word out of what they perceive to be the hyper-sensitivities of farangs. It all depends on whom you are with. I've seen two generations of Thais come of age and the word is used often and casually  by most of them with no intent to offend. 

Obviously, there are Thais who dislike Europeans and people of European descent - thus to them, the very name farang rings foul. A distinction has to be made between people like that, usually found in tourist areas, and the rest of the population who are more inclined to be friendly toward us.

The term was never used as an insult in the past. Why consider it to be one now? 

Incidentally, if the word does become demonized and verboten, what polite equivalent would replace it?

What would be equally concise and specific?

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I'm referring to family members from rural areas.

 

  On 5/6/2018 at 7:02 AM, Dick Crank said:

"your different", "you don't belong", "your not one of us", "your not important enough to use your real name"

would you you call someone a foreigner who was visiting or living in your home country? Problem solved.

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I'd call them a tourist or a resident.

 

  On 5/7/2018 at 2:00 AM, bert bloggs said:

The word Farang is only used when people are talking about foreigners in general ,my Thai family never use the word when talking to or about me they use my name  , just the same as if we were having a conversation about someone from another country and not a family member , none of my British family ever call my wife  the Thai they just use her name ..

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Exactly, the word should only be used for foreigners collectively in a normal sense. However, it is not and is used commonly as a derogatory term, my wife would never be called the 'farang' equivalent in the UK by someone unless they were trying to be offensive.

 

  On 5/7/2018 at 2:57 PM, Goldbear said:

I don't consider the word to be derogatory. 

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It is derogatory in each and every way but may not be intended to be. Ignorance is bliss.

[JLCrab]

Bliss or not, I don't think you're being ignorant just stuck-up.

[nycjoe]

All depends on the tone?! ;-) :-(. It could be just people of European origin but it all depends on the perception of the person and the context. This is a very nationalistic country.


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[The manic]

<deleted>, Nigger, spik,coon, paki,China, you , slant etc were not considered derogatory until people became educated.  Farang is derogatory but does not offend me. There is in Thai a correct term for for foreigners from another country and it ain't Farang. But it ain't worth getting upset about.. Racial prejudice is an unfortunate aspect of Thailand but it is balanced by other aspects of tolerance.  

[AlQaholic]

  On 5/3/2018 at 5:31 AM, Kieran00001 said:

 

No, it isn't, its a derivative of Frank, nothing to do with skin colour but the people of Europe who the Persians first interacted with, so what is your problem?

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You can google it and Wiki it all day long, it still has a coincidental resemblance to the fruit with white flesh, which makes it so funny to use by Thais, because it's derogatory without being obviously derogatory, because you can always claim that the word come from Persia....

[Kieran00001]

  On 5/8/2018 at 1:13 AM, AlQaholic said:

You can google it and Wiki it all day long, it still has a coincidental resemblance to the fruit with white flesh, which makes it so funny to use by Thais, because it's derogatory without being obviously derogatory, because you can always claim that the word come from Persia....

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What do you think is a coincidental resemblance, the name?  Guava's were brought to Asia by the Portuguese along with potatoes, they named them both after the farangs who brought them.  Or do you think you look like a guava?

[scoutman360]

A lot of controversy here. My experience working here with middle class (15 yrs in Bangkok). Farang is an insult word with middle class. The middle class will not use it. Farang is used frequently with the lower class. They don't think of it as an insult. But they are racist and that is how they refer to outsiders.

[Jingthing]

  On 5/8/2018 at 3:40 PM, Kieran00001 said:

 

What do you think is a coincidental resemblance, the name?  Guava's were brought to Asia by the Portuguese along with potatoes, they named them both after the farangs who brought them.  Or do you think you look like a guava?

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Why the irrational obsession with historical origins?

That's irrelevant.

As everyone knows the way words are used changes over time.

The question is about how the word is used in current times.

Duh. 

[Kieran00001]

  On 5/8/2018 at 7:47 PM, Jingthing said:

Why the irrational obsession with historical origins?

That's irrelevant.

As everyone knows the way words are used changes over time.

The question is about how the word is used in current times.

Duh. 

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There is nothing irrational about asking what they thought was a coincidental resemblance, nor is there anything irrational about pointing out that the names are not coincidentally the same but actually one named after the other.

[Kieran00001]

  On 5/8/2018 at 7:08 PM, scoutman360 said:

A lot of controversy here. My experience working here with middle class (15 yrs in Bangkok). Farang is an insult word with middle class. The middle class will not use it. Farang is used frequently with the lower class. They don't think of it as an insult. But they are racist and that is how they refer to outsiders.

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Have a read of "Narrative of a residence at the capital of the Kingdom of Siam, with a description of the manners, customs, and laws of the modern Siamese", there are people quoted in that book using the term, and I think you will find they were not working class!   The term is not an insult, there is nothing insulting about it, but it is informal and so you will not hear it used in some contexts, it would be unprofessional to use such slang, particularly in the presence of one.

[johng]

  On 5/9/2018 at 12:26 AM, Kieran00001 said:

 
Have a read of "Narrative of a residence at the capital of the Kingdom of Siam, with a description of the manners, customs, and laws of the modern Siamese",

It hasn't been Siam for quite sometime now
Back then a gay person was happy and darkie was a toothpaste [emoji3]

[Kieran00001]

  On 5/9/2018 at 8:17 AM, johng said:

 

 

It hasn't been Siam for quite sometime now
Back then a gay person was happy and darkie was a toothpaste

 

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It was only called Siam by foreigners, the word means dark, as in dark skinned, they never called themselves it. 

[johng]

  On 5/9/2018 at 8:57 AM, Kieran00001 said:

 
It was only called Siam by foreigners, the word means dark, as in dark skinned, they never called themselves it. 

Ok so what did they call themselves ?

[Kieran00001]

  On 5/9/2018 at 9:00 AM, johng said:

  On 5/9/2018 at 8:57 AM, Kieran00001 said:

 
It was only called Siam by foreigners, the word means dark, as in dark skinned, they never called themselves it. 

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Ok so what did they call themselves ?

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Krung Tai.

[johng]

  On 5/9/2018 at 9:06 AM, Kieran00001 said:

 
Krung Tai.

I think you're wrong but am willing to be corrected..later beer time now..