Experts say Thailand not ready for same-sex marriage, but partnership recognition likely

[rooster59]

Experts say Thailand not ready for same-sex marriage, but partnership recognition likely

By PRATCH RUJIVANAROM 
THE NATION

 

 

THE proposed same-sex marriage law is likely to be turned down due to conservative lawmakers dominating the legislative system, while younger people, who are generally more liberal towards LGBTIQ (lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, intersexed and queer) rights groups, criticised the Life Partnership Bill as discriminating against some other sexually diverse people.

 

The Life Partnership Bill has become a fierce battleground between conservatives and progressives. A study by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) found that old and conservative members of Thailand’s National Legislative Assembly (NLA) and Council of State are unlikely to approve this bill on the grounds that same-sex marriage would offend traditional moral and religious values.

 

The study also found that the young and more liberal generations are more supportive of homosexuals having the right to marry recognised, but LGBTIQ groups themselves criticised the bill for not encouraging equality. If the bill were to be passed, same-sex couples would still not have all the same rights as heterosexual couples.

 

This vast ideological difference between the two groups was also observed at the first meeting of the subcommittee to review the Life Partnership Bill at the Justice Ministry yesterday, where an intense debate raged on the issue of same-sex marriage legalisation in Thailand.

UN Development Programme officer for LGBTIQ rights Supanee Pongruangphan said that from the study of the Life Partnership Bill, it could be concluded that it was very hard to settle the issue to suit current Thai society.

 

Supanee pointed out that though conservative values in Thai society were not the only problem for passing this law, the opinion of the conservative members in the country’s law-making machinery was making it hard to get approval for same-sex marriage legalisation.

 

“Most of the NLA and Council of State members still disagree with same-sex marriage, as they are from the old generation who mostly have conservative ideas and they may believe that this law is not for the benefit of the majority in society,” she said.

 

“Even though many older generations are against the idea of gay marriage, it has been found that the younger generations are more open and liberal to this idea. So I suggest that the creation of a family law for the LGBTIQ group of people should be done on the foundation that the law should benefit the majority of the society, including the LGBTIQ group.”

 

Chumaporn Taengkliang, the LGBTIQ rights campaigner from Togetherness for Equality and Action Group, however, stressed that the current Life Partnership Bill was not sufficient to ensure gender equality, as same-sex couples would still not get the same rights as heterosexual couples if this law were passed.

 

Chumaporn said that there should be an amendment to the marriage law in Civil Code by changing the words indicating sexes to gender-neutral words. That would allow all persons to marry and be subject to the same marriage law regardless of their sex.

 

Meanwhile, Vitit Muntarbhorn, a lecturer in the Faculty of Law at Chulalongkorn University reflected on the international and domestic trends toward legalising same-sex marriage. It is more likely that Thailand will start with registering the life partnerships of same-sex couples, rather than amend the Civil Code to fully legalise same sex marriage, he said. That is because allowing life-partnership registration would have less impact on religious issues, he said, as it will not touch on the issues of having a child.

 

He suggested, the law on life partnership be carefully drafted to avoid future legal issues. The Life Partnership Bill is currently in the process of being reviewed by the relevant agencies and stakeholders, while the Rights and Liberties Protection Department has said it is working to complete the passing of the law by the end of this year.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30344628

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-05-05

 

[AGareth2]

9 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

same-sex marriage would offend traditional moral and religious values.

you mean people who hold these beliefs have rights?

thought only the alphabet people have rights

Edited May 5, 2018 by AGareth2

[Samui Bodoh]

I have always found that one of Thailand's great strengths and attractions is a 'live and let live' attitude towards personal matters; what other country has a national beauty pageant for ladyboys and/or has a good chuckle at the 'beauties' who show up for the draft?

 

This tolerance is a good thing; it would be a shame if it was ruined by God-botherers/morality-crusaders as in so many other countries.

 

Letting gay people get married harms no one. And if something harms no one, what is the justification for not doing it?

 

Lead the way Thailand.

 

[AGareth2]

2 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Letting gay people get married harms no one. And if something harms no one, what is the justification for not doing it?

maybe the foreigner would be entitled to Thai nationality

as female foreigners are

[Anak Nakal]

Thailand have many LadyBoy.

Why not let merry? It not hurt.

Let them have divorce! 

[tifino]

1 minute ago, Anak Nakal said:

Thailand have many LadyBoy.

Why not let merry? It not hurt.

Let them have divorce! 

 

one can expect the rate of 'wife' exporting to double?

especially as recipient countries allowing samsex marriage are getting more'n'more 

 

[pornprong]

2 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

you mean people who hold these beliefs have rights?

What rights would these be?

The right to deny "alphabet people" their rights.

Seems like a rather nasty thing to be supporting.

 

2 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

thought only the alphabet people have rights

Well, you thought wrong.

The "alphabet people" don't even have the same rights as others.

That's all they are asking for.

 

How unsurprising that someone opposed to gay marriage would get facts so completely muddled.

Better keep your head lodged firmly in the sand my friend, the modern world is no place for you.

[notmyself]

A study by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) found that old and conservative members of Thailand’s National Legislative Assembly (NLA) and Council of State are unlikely to approve this bill on the grounds that same-sex marriage would offend traditional moral and religious values.

 

So it's a question of people being offended rather than what is correct or incorrect. I do so love living in a third world country.

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I have always found that one of Thailand's great strengths and attractions is a 'live and let live' attitude towards personal matters; what other country has a national beauty pageant for ladyboys and/or has a good chuckle at the 'beauties' who show up for the draft?

 

This tolerance is a good thing; it would be a shame if it was ruined by God-botherers/morality-crusaders as in so many other countries.

 

Letting gay people get married harms no one. And if something harms no one, what is the justification for not doing it?

 

Lead the way Thailand.

 

Lead the way? Too late.

Thailand is far behind on this issue.

I agree with the premise that Thailand is not ready.

This is a much more conservative country than it may superficially seem. 

Thailand is not ready for a LOT of things ... 

[jaltsc]

“…Thailand not ready for same-sex marriage…”

Considering how many men run out on the mothers of their children, and are lax in supporting their families, I would argue that Thailand is not even ready for traditional marriage. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by jaltsc

[alation]

I am happy with the words man and women in the exchanging of marriage v if people want it changed then let it say man and man women and women don't let the minority change something to suit them selves at the expense of the majority  so I choose to stay the same and make new ones for same sex couples. 

[sawadee1947]

8 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Experts

Who are those self appointed misguided so called EXPERTS?

[Jingthing]

23 minutes ago, alation said:

I am happy with the words man and women in the exchanging of marriage v if people want it changed then let it say man and man women and women don't let the minority change something to suit them selves at the expense of the majority  so I choose to stay the same and make new ones for same sex couples. 

What expense? It wouldn't change anything about opposite sex marriages at all. 

[Eligius]

Isn't this just a classic example of how Thailand's faux-elite are light years away from facing reality? Thailand has to be one of the most gay-populous countries on earth - and yet these 'elite' dinosaurs are 'not ready for gay marriage yet'.

 

And the sick joke about it all is that quite probably many in the junta and 'elite' ranks are closet gays.

 

By the way (quite tangentially, of course): did you know that Prawit has never married?! 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Eligius

[fvw53]

Consulting adults can do behind doors whatever they want ...but do not let them adopt children..

I cannot imagine to go to an open door day at school with my two fathers or two mothers...but of course I am old fashioned

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

Consulting adults can do behind doors whatever they want ...but do not let them adopt children..

I cannot imagine to go to an open door day at school with my two fathers or two mothers...but of course I am old fashioned

Whatever. Not all older people are anti-gay bigots. 

 

What if I said this -- 

I cannot imagine to go to an open door day at school with a black and a white ...but of course I am old fashioned

 

YOU would label that racist bigotry.

 

SAME DIFFERENCE. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by Jingthing

[AGareth2]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Whatever. Not all older people are anti-gay bigots. 

Now now

He is entitled to his opinion as much as you are entitled to yours

What you are not entitled to do is abuse people for holding an opinion

Why do you do it?

Do you not believe in the freedom of expression?

[mfd101]

11 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

Now now

He is entitled to his opinion as much as you are entitled to yours

What you are not entitled to do is abuse people for holding an opinion

Why do you do it?

Do you not believe in the freedom of expression?

And Jingthing's reference to the 'black & white' example? You would accept that that is an opinion that anyone is entitled to have and to express?

[KiwiKiwi]

A certain inevitability to that I suppose.

[AGareth2]

20 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

And Jingthing's reference to the 'black & white' example? You would accept that that is an opinion that anyone is entitled to have and to express?

please could you quote the example so I may express an opinion

[mfd101]

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

please could you quote the example so I may express an opinion

No. 16 above.

[jak2002003]

I hope they will get the registered same sex 'partnerships' registered at the end of the year.  

 

It would make life I lot easier and less of a worry for me.

 

My partner and I have been married for 11 years, and together for 21 years.  Here its a worry if anything happens to one of us, about the house, assets, money etc.  It would also help my visa if I could get the same kind as other expat women married to expat men.  

[welovethailand]

Who says Thailand is far behind in this "confusion"?

See this  video, just the 1st minute:

 

[Expatthailover]

4 hours ago, notmyself said:

 

 

 

So it's a question of people being offended rather than what is correct or incorrect. I do so love living in a third world country.

Old and conservative members of every legislative body around the world  ( 1st, 2nd or 3rd ) think the same no doubt. 

Are.you certain you enjoy living

[Eaglekott]

43 minutes ago, welovethailand said:

Who says Thailand is far behind in this "confusion"?

See this  video, just the 1st minute:

 

Is that just his personal opinion or is there some scientific facts behind these statements? And if so where is the references to PubMed or any other reliable source?

Edited May 5, 2018 by Eaglekott
Spell correction

[stephen tracy]

Anywhere you go in the world conservative = backward. Look at the US, for example. It seems to qualify as a conservative there you have to be a Christian, gun-toting, angry pervert. 

[pornprong]

4 hours ago, alation said:

I am happy with the words man and women in the exchanging of marriage v if people want it changed then let it say man and man women and women don't let the minority change something to suit them selves at the expense of the majority  so I choose to stay the same and make new ones for same sex couples. 

What makes you think the majority share your views?

[pornprong]

1 hour ago, stephen tracy said:

Anywhere you go in the world conservative = backward. Look at the US, for example. It seems to qualify as a conservative there you have to be a Christian, gun-toting, angry pervert. 

Conservative = fear the future will be worse

Progressive = hope the future will be better

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, pornprong said:

What makes you think the majority share your views?

Even if they did, why is it right for the majority shouldn't dictate basic civil rights to minorities? Ideally all minorities including unpopular ones should enjoy the same civil rights. Obviously, that ideal is not met in many or most countries. 

[pornprong]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Even if they did, why is it right for the majority shouldn't dictate basic civil rights to minorities? Ideally all minorities including unpopular ones should enjoy the same civil rights. Obviously, that ideal is not met in many or most countries. 

Whether you like it or not, this is how modern liberal democracies function.

Why do you think it has taken this long for marriage equality to finally start becoming equal?