Dowry?

[Elkski]

4 hours ago, The Fat Controller said:

@Elkski, not the case !

 

No ongoing gift stream, the money is still in the bank.

 

My wife owns 2 houses and 2 apartment buildings (total of 38 rooms for rent), so the stream runs the other way, the business income takes care of all the expenses (including me) and we still save some every month.

 

My mother-in-law gifted us the family home after she had built her own retirement home out in the countryside (her own money) along with several plots of land.

 

I still have my house in Scotland along with a decent company pension and currently split my time between here and Thailand, being together 24/7 365 days a year is not for either of us right now.

 

To the OP, do whatever you feel comfortable with, make sure you know the family you are getting involved with and never bring to Thailand anything you cannot afford to walk away from.

I better keep looking.  I have met a gal with similar assets but she is just 2 years younger and not pretty.  Albeit a better body than 80% of similar she in USA.

[MaeJoMTB]

4 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

You must have a great life.

Probably better than a person who insists at spouting his nonsense at the natives while they snigger and ignore him.

Minding your own business is a great way to live.

Edited May 8, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Elkski]

I think these Thai women require a minimum dating period at least 1 year if not 2 before you worry about marriage. 

If  a gal lives with you  before marriage and it's known, is there a sin sod? 

I think maybe keeping her cheap room for show may be a good idea. 

 

[richard_smith237]

If the money is just for the sake of tradition and will be returned, then why not? 

There should be compromise on both sides with the meeting of two cultures in marriage.

 

Otherwise think carefully and be certain you are not being taken advantage of.

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, Poottrong said:

just one that a reasonably well- to-do Thai would pay

 

 

how much would a reasonably well to do thai guy dowry amount be to a gal from an average rural issan family?

[atyclb]

58 minutes ago, Elkski said:

I better keep looking.  I have met a gal with similar assets but she is just 2 years younger and not pretty.  Albeit a better body than 80% of similar she in USA.

 

 

plastic surgery ??

[smotherb]

20 hours ago, maprao said:

Married before with kids pay nothing.

Then upto you.

You can pay from 30k to 10 million like the guy who married the guy the other day

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to the consensus of my Thai friends--business owners, military officer, university professor--traditionally, sin sod was only for virgins.

 

However, today, any woman with kids, who worked the sex trade, who had a previous marriage does not get sin sod.  The younger, the better looking, the more virginal, the better educated and the wealthier the parents; the more sin sod to be paid. 

 

Maybe that was bravado, because they also agreed that any decent girl could get sin sod if the man wanted her more than she wanted him.

 

My opinion, of course; sin sod is a bar fine.

[atyclb]

1 hour ago, smotherb said:

Maybe that was bravado, because they also agreed that any decent girl could get sin sod if the man wanted her more than she wanted him.

 

 

geez, thats nice, the gal really does not want the guy that much but throw her some money and magically she is in love

Edited May 8, 2018 by atyclb

[AYJAYDEE]

7 hours ago, Elkski said:

I recently had a conversation with three different Thai women about sin sod.  They all said previous marriage(s) or children has no bearing in this which I find odd. 

This means the more marriage's a woman has the more money the family gets.   What a dumb tradition. 

They all said this is very important Thai tradition to show respect and face for the family.  

I was not able to get an amount from any of the women.  Seems like a poker game?  Maybe the parents job to negotiate this?

One woman said a thai man in her Village has evidently agreed upon $50,000 baht for his previously married girl friend with three kids. They plan to marry in November.  I found it odd that this woman already knew about the money. But I guess he is like an adopted brother   I would think 50,000 baht for a farmer would be a lot of money.  

 

I can see 200,000  or 6,400 USD being ok for me.  Especially if getting half back.    Plus a big village party.   

 

I liked to advice of demanding to be the head of the family.  I like the advice about making sure all siblings contribute their share.   I would make splitting the land contingent on all siblings contributions to support Mom.  Seems to always be one sucker daughter carrying the load.  

The way I see it most farang are going to be the smartest man in the village with the best decision making ability.  So mum should be proud of a take charge guy. 

 

As to the guy who gave millions.  I'm glad it's in the wife's account.  But I imagine you are providing an nice ongoing gift stream.  Why would they be unhappy until their pond is as full as yours. 

it is negotiated between representatives of each of the two getting married. and dont kid yourself about being best able to make decisions in the village. your western education is little help in a village environment

[KhaoYai]

4 hours ago, Poottrong said:

As you say, depends who you know and which circles you mix but overall I think successful farang/thai relationships are probably  a minority rather than a majority.

 

 

 

You have misread me, I am not saying that successful relationships are the majority, I'm saying that in my experience, bad families are in the minority.  Reading forums like this, you could be forgiven for thinking the opposite because of the amount of stories that support your view - however, as usual, bad news sells.

[RichardColeman]

My school teacher wife (35) had two daughters before I met her with some abusive hi-so Thai bozo. 

 

I paid nothing, she never asked for anything at any point.

 

Truth be told, when i met my alcoholic 'father-in-law' first and only time he virtually threatened to assault me -  so that would not have helped his case anyhow.

[smotherb]

1 hour ago, atyclb said:

 

 

geez, thats nice, the gal really does not want the guy that much but throw her some money and magically she is in love

Yes, keep that thought; then, read my last line again, " My opinion, of course; sin sod is a bar fine. "

[Rc2702]

I pay 5000 baht cash a quarter to my fil and approximately 1000 baht in milk and nourishments per month.

 

I get back about 10kg of rice, 200 bananas, 100 mangoes and plenty of chillis.

 

I also only see them 2-3 times a year.

 

 

 

 

[Poottrong]

9 hours ago, atyclb said:

 

 

how much would a reasonably well to do thai guy dowry amount be to a gal from an average rural issan family?

Assuming you're not getting any of the sinsod back I would guess 100,000 baht, some gold and a decent wedding party is plenty. If the girl has been married before or has a kid already I would drop that down dramatically to maybe a token sinsod of 30k plus a modest wedding.

 

 

[473geo]

56 minutes ago, Poottrong said:

Assuming you're not getting any of the sinsod back I would guess 100,000 baht, some gold and a decent wedding party is plenty. If the girl has been married before or has a kid already I would drop that down dramatically to maybe a token sinsod of 30k plus a modest wedding.

 

 

And if the guy has been married before? Would you then put back up the sinsot? Dramatically?

Edited May 8, 2018 by 473geo

[473geo]

7 hours ago, smotherb said:

Yes, keep that thought; then, read my last line again, " My opinion, of course; sin sod is a bar fine. "

I just let your thought float by into the trash, I have experienced young Thai couples observing the sinsot culture.

While there is no doubt cases of the sinsot culture abuse exist (Take the Thai lady who conned several Thai men) others who just took off with the money. The tradition does exist, I would suggest in many cases where never a bar in sight!

The conclusion I draw from this thread is there are posters who thought the whole thing through, evaluated the level of expectation and reacted in a manner that accommodated both parties, without trying to take control or save a few baht. These posters for the main part appear to remain in the relationship.

Others however spout advice only to admit their method of 'negotiation' resulted in spectacular failure

[AYJAYDEE]

14 minutes ago, 473geo said:

I just let your thought float by into the trash, I have experienced young Thai couples observing the sinsot culture.

While there is no doubt cases of the sinsot culture abuse exist (Take the Thai lady who conned several Thai men) others who just took off with the money. The tradition does exist, I would suggest in many cases where never a bar in sight!

The conclusion I draw from this thread is there are posters who thought the whole thing through, evaluated the level of expectation and reacted in a manner that accommodated both parties, without trying to take control or save a few baht. These posters for the main part appear to remain in the relationship.

Others however spout advice only to admit their method of 'negotiation' resulted in spectacular failure

I always figured my dowry payment was well spent as a lease payment for 1 rai of fully serviced village land for as long as I live!!

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, 473geo said:

I just let your thought float by into the trash, I have experienced young Thai couples observing the sinsot culture.

While there is no doubt cases of the sinsot culture abuse exist (Take the Thai lady who conned several Thai men) others who just took off with the money. The tradition does exist, I would suggest in many cases where never a bar in sight!

The conclusion I draw from this thread is there are posters who thought the whole thing through, evaluated the level of expectation and reacted in a manner that accommodated both parties, without trying to take control or save a few baht. These posters for the main part appear to remain in the relationship.

Others however spout advice only to admit their method of 'negotiation' resulted in spectacular failure

Well, I am pleased to see my opinion caused such ire. I was not arguing the fact sin sod is a Thai cultural tradition--I believe my recounting of my Thai friends statements did not deny tradition.

 

However, I would not pay sin sod, because I find it demeaning to both the female and the male; as if he was paying for her. Hence, my bar fine analogy.

 

What in that I said leads you to conclude I would be one of the others who, " . . . spout advice only to admit their method of 'negotiation' resulted in spectacular failure."  I have neither suggested a negotiation plan, nor have I witnessed spectacular failure in refusing sin sod.  In fact, I know several success stories of foreign men did not pay sin sod yet married Thai women--women who did not come from the sex trade. One of those stories is my son and my Thai daughter-in-law. 

 

Your comment, ". . . posters who thought the whole thing through, evaluated the level of expectation and reacted in a manner that accommodated both parties . . ."  seems quite rationalistic. To me, that sounds like the second consensus from my group.

 

However, you must do what you must do and I must do what I must do. I sincerely hope your decision works well for you.

 

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, KhaoYai said:

Maybe in your version of Thai families. Not being rude but it is impossible for you to know how all Thai families work.  Despite all the bad stories of farangs getting ripped off, chewed up and spat out, such families remain in the minority - at least they are in the ones I know. I guess it depends on which circles you choose to mix in.

In that case, can we have some posts from farangs that have become head of Thai extended family households, where they rule the roost and say who gets what in wills, and where the villagers come to them for advice and support, rather than the village headman ( even better- any farang "village headmen" on TVF? ).

 

I'm not holding my breath in anticipation.

[473geo]

15 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Well, I am pleased to see my opinion caused such ire. I was not arguing the fact sin sod is a Thai cultural tradition--I believe my recounting of my Thai friends statements did not deny tradition.

 

However, I would not pay sin sod, because I find it demeaning to both the female and the male; as if he was paying for her. Hence, my bar fine analogy.

 

What in that I said leads you to conclude I would be one of the others who, " . . . spout advice only to admit their method of 'negotiation' resulted in spectacular failure."  I have neither suggested a negotiation plan, nor have I witnessed spectacular failure in refusing sin sod.  In fact, I know several success stories of foreign men did not pay sin sod yet married Thai women--women who did not come from the sex trade. One of those stories is my son and my Thai daughter-in-law. 

 

Your comment, ". . . posters who thought the whole thing through, evaluated the level of expectation and reacted in a manner that accommodated both parties . . ."  seems quite rationalistic. To me, that sounds like the second consensus from my group.

 

However, you must do what you must do and I must do what I must do. I sincerely hope your decision works well for you.

 

 

 

No ire on my part, I wonder if your son had chosen to love a girl from a traditional (not attached to the sex trade) family who requested a token sinsot, would you have advised against this union on the grounds that it was a 'bar fine'?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, 473geo said:

Others however spout advice only to admit their method of 'negotiation' resulted in spectacular failure

I played the game re sin sod etc, but in the end it came down to them wanting all my money, and me not giving it.

I wasn't aware that it was Thai culture for the husband to give all he has to his wife's family. More like greed, in any culture.

[AYJAYDEE]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In that case, can we have some posts from farangs that have become head of Thai extended family households, where they rule the roost and say who gets what in wills, and where the villagers come to them for advice and support, rather than the village headman ( even better- any farang "village headmen" on TVF? ).

 

I'm not holding my breath in anticipation.

apples and oranges

 

[AYJAYDEE]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I played the game re sin sod etc, but in the end it came down to them wanting all my money, and me not giving it.

I wasn't aware that it was Thai culture for the husband to give all he has to his wife's family. More like greed, in any culture.

it isnt. you picked a greedy family. bad choice

 

[Kadilo]

27 minutes ago, smotherb said:

 

 

However, I would not pay sin sod, because I find it demeaning to both the female and the male; as if he was paying for her. Hence, my bar fine analogy.

 

nuts and bolts of it for me too. I've laid out my views on it from day one in my relationship. The family all  get treated with respect and treated well in other ways from me. If they went down the road of asking for Sin sod  i would see them in a totally different light and be on my bike. 

 

[AYJAYDEE]

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

nuts and bolts of it for me too. I've laid out my views on it from day one in my relationship. The family all  get treated with respect and treated well in other ways from me. If they went down the road of asking for Sin sod  i would see them in a totally different light and be on my bike. 

 

so if your in laws asked for it, you'd walk out on your wife and any kids you might have?

[473geo]

2 minutes ago, Kadilo said:

nuts and bolts of it for me too. I've laid out my views on it from day one in my relationship. The family all  get treated with respect and treated well in other ways from me. If they went down the road of asking for Sin sod  i would see them in a totally different light and be on my bike. 

 

Not married yet then?

[473geo]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I played the game re sin sod etc, but in the end it came down to them wanting all my money, and me not giving it.

I wasn't aware that it was Thai culture for the husband to give all he has to his wife's family. More like greed, in any culture.

Did they offer you land to build a house?

[MaeJoMTB]

26 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I played the game re sin sod etc, but in the end it came down to them wanting all my money, and me not giving it.

I wasn't aware that it was Thai culture for the husband to give all he has to his wife's family. More like greed, in any culture.

I paid 100kbht for mine +10k/month household expenses, and negotiated 

Two months unrestricted access to sex and a married VISA before payment.

The family farm in our kid's name after payment (5 rai of rice paddy and the farmhouse on a separate plot).

Not a bad deal IMHO, she's still with me nearly 10 years later. 

(More lease hire than outright purchase)

Edited May 9, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Topah]

I hope my post won't be deleted. I am still married myself but I have been married 10 years and I am divorcing soon. I did pay the car, mainly the house loan (house is paid) etc. It will never get even when you will divorce. It is like flipping the coin will your marriage last but trust me with this: Marriage will never get better when years go by. Only divorce will feel better after years go by.

 

It is not today's practice to marry but I would not change a thing. Lived in a great country and got a perfect son. You will get a lot of benefits by marrying. Dowry is a thing to show and not lose too much face and everyone (even you) would love to have free money. In your case I would pay 30000b just to show some respect. Usually those old grandmas and grandpas talk about dowry. It is even possible that you just bring the money for show. It is the culture. If asked or talked about...respect it or don't marry. 

 

When you see the TV series and movies about foreigners arriving into the village, it is like a lottery for them. Farangs mean better living and money. And if you are poor. You are poor. If you love children, you need a lady. You will love the kid more than anything but that lady will get less and less love and things will change. It did for me and I guess for many else. You cannot force that love but ladies will and men are stupid thinking marriage will make things easier in life. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Topah

[AYJAYDEE]

15 minutes ago, Topah said:

I hope my post won't be deleted. I am still married myself but I have been married 10 years and I am divorcing soon. I did pay the car, mainly the house loan (house is paid) etc. It will never get even when you will divorce. It is like flipping the coin will your marriage last but trust me with this: Marriage will never get better when years go by. Only divorce will feel better after years go by.

 

It is not today's practice to marry but I would not change a thing. Lived in a great country and got a perfect son. You will get a lot of benefits by marrying. Dowry is a thing to show and not lose too much face and everyone (even you) would love to have free money. In your case I would pay 30000b just to show some respect. Usually those old grandmas and grandpas talk about dowry. It is even possible that you just bring the money for show. It is the culture. If asked or talked about...respect it or don't marry. 

 

When you see the TV series and movies about foreigners arriving into the village, it is like a lottery for them. Farangs mean better living and money. And if you are poor. You are poor. If you love children, you need a lady. You will love the kid more than anything but that lady will get less and less love and things will change. It did for me and I guess for many else. You cannot force that love but ladies will and men are stupid thinking marriage will make things easier in life. 

it made my life a lot happier and easier