Trump abandons 'defective' Iran nuclear deal, to revive sanctions

[Hummin]

And Im just a boring adrenalin freak who do not drink or do drugs. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Hummin

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The US actually exports oil now, thanks to frakking.

 

They do, but they are still at only about 90% energy independence.  The export ban repeal was primarily for the benefit of Alaska crude that had to travel by ship anyway.

[baboon]

16 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

You know what would be funny, is if North Korea in a gesture of goodwill disclosed some of the details to the US about who they have been exporting their nuclear wepons technology to. It has long been rumored that Iran was a buyer. But if NK really were going to denuclearize (which I doubt), intelligence on all the deals they made in the past would be part of the bargain I would think. You're going to find Iran on that list. Never a dull moment.

Why on earth would they denuclearize now? Try and put yourself in their place for a moment. Would you?

[DM07]

Oooooh, I bet the orange idi...the American President has listened closely to all sides, got opinions from all the experts and was able to make an informed decission....

 

...

...

...

..and then he said "#@$% that- 'Murica Number One!" and got out of a MULTINATIONAL DEAL (yes...even if you treat it as an US- Iran Deal, that are still not the facts!), that actually could have stabilized Iran and the Middle East.

Well done!

Well done, indeed!

[lannarebirth]

Just now, baboon said:

Why on earth would they denuclearize now? Try and put yourself in their place for a moment. Would you?

 

I don't think they are, which is what I said. I'd love it if I was wrong about that. I was just what iffing.

[baboon]

5 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I don't think they are, which is what I said. I'd love it if I was wrong about that. I was just what iffing.

Aye, the fewer of these weapons that there are, the better it is for all of us. However smaller countries now have a huge disincentive to denuclearize, thanks to this catastrophic renaging on a perfectly good deal.

[lannarebirth]

Just now, baboon said:

Aye, the fewer of these weapons that there are, the better it is for all of us. However smaller countries now have a huge disincentive to denuclearize, thanks to this catastrophic renaging on a perfectly good deal.

I didn't think it was a very good deal that shouldn't have been made in its current form but we shouldn't have reneged anyway. It is important to honor your agreements, whether personally or as a nation.

[Asiantravel]

38 minutes ago, baboon said:

Why on earth would they denuclearize now? Try and put yourself in their place for a moment. Would you?

You said put yourself in their place. As long as they have the protection of Big Brother China, why not?

How would anyone know what China has guaranteed North Korea in terms of defence?

China already said months ago that they would defend North Korea if there was a first strike by USA.

 

[Hummin]

Just over the night Russia and China suddenly seems more logic to cooperate with than USA! What then? Same shit same wrapping, but we want to keep our wealth, and not go down with USA paranoid attempt to stay in power? There will be a day we have no more use of USA, and their treaths far up in the troat, and look for other partners. Are USA going to bomb everyone everywhere? 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Hummin

[baboon]

12 minutes ago, Asiantravel said:

You said put yourself in their place. As long as they have the protection of Big Brother China, why not?

How would anyone know what China has guaranteed North Korea in terms of defence?

China already said months ago that they would defend North Korea if there was a first strike by USA.

 

A fair response. However China and the DPRK don't actually get along that well. I would be happy to discuss it more, but we will only have our posts removed for being off topic.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[Kasset Tak]

Iran's involvement in Yemen and Syria... Yes, only US are allowed to support "freedom fighters" (Syria), terrorists (Turkey and Syria) and genocide (Yemen)!  And much of the problems in middle east today comes back to how US and CIA tried control the area by setting people like Saddam Hussein and Shawn of Iran in power!
US have with Trumps decisions lost all credibility for any current and future deals as he do not honor the agreements former presidents have made (not only Iran!!!)!

[Jonnapat]

Now the idiot can proudly proclaim to his hillbilly supporters that he has managed to sabotage yet another Obama agreement.

This man's stupidity seems to know no bounds but I guess there's more to come.

[janclaes47]

3 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

Now the idiot can proudly proclaim to his hillbilly supporters that he has managed to sabotage yet another Obama agreement.

This man's stupidity seems to know no bounds but I guess there's more to come.

But at the time the deal was reached, the majority of TV members condemned the deal and Obama for reaching it, so why is it now again condemned for pulling out of it.

 

 

[mikebike]

6 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

But at the time the deal was reached, the majority of TV members condemned the deal and Obama for reaching it, so why is it now again condemned for pulling out of it.

 

 

There were, as always, many polls reporting somewhat conflicting results in 2015. Here is a good article explaining the differences: https://www.vox.com/2015/7/27/9049839/iran-deal-polls

 

To answer your question, many people didn't fully understand the deal and in the intervening years came to the conclusion it was not perfect but infinitely better than nothing.

[attrayant]

8 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

But at the time the deal was reached, the majority of TV members condemned the deal and Obama for reaching it, so why is it now again condemned for pulling out of it.

 

Because they wanted something better?  The same reason a lot of Obama supporters were less than delighted with Obamacare - it's didn't go far enough but it was the best we could get at the time.

 

If seatbelts had only a 50% success rate, that still wouldn't mean we should rip them out of every car.  An imperfect deal is better than none at all.

[CharlesSwann]

Presumably Trump is in dictator-removal mode and this is to bring pressure on the mullahs and sweep them aside. Maybe it's to build on some internal instability recently.

I know, regime change hasn't worked well before. But one might credit the Iranian people with more sense (probably the best sense in the muslim world), and it is tempting to see a much better future in the middle-east if/when Iran gets back to normal. Unlike the others, this country has some potential to be a decent democracy once the religious clerics are out of the way. And for another thing, Iranians are culturally not anti-Israel.

 

Not to overlook the Israeli lobby in this also - those guys are so insecure they will definitely take the world to the brink. That may be mainly what it's all about, but I don't worry about Israel - whatever their destiny is, they are responsible for it.

 

This also sends a message to N. Korea with that meeting coming up. If Trump can rid the world of both autocracies by hard-dealing, they'll be crowd-surfing him. Presumably that prospect is irrestisible to him.

 

Just trying to present an (objective) alternative perspective on this, which does seem reckless and counter-intuitive at first.

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by CharlesSwann

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

Neither you nor Trump understands that oil is a highly fungible commodity.  It moves smoothly in and out of countries and their stockpiles; and gets traded again and again.  Iran will sell their light crude to other countries who may, in turn, resell it to us.  Or we could buy Canadian & Venezuelan crude which is heavier and requires much more refining.

 

Light Arabian oil is one of the most sought after in the world.  Iran won't have any trouble selling it.

Thank you. I learnt a new word today! I shall use fungible all the time now!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Asiantravel said:

You said put yourself in their place. As long as they have the protection of Big Brother China, why not?

How would anyone know what China has guaranteed North Korea in terms of defence?

China already said months ago that they would defend North Korea if there was a first strike by USA.

 

Good point

 

I think China will provide a nuclear umbrella for a nuclear free re-united Korea. 

 

The USA will be asked to go!

 

I'm sure Japan will then have to announce its own deterrent 

[pedro01]

2 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

But at the time the deal was reached, the majority of TV members condemned the deal and Obama for reaching it, so why is it now again condemned for pulling out of it.

 

 

 

Trump derangement syndrome in action.

 

Once the deal is sealed with North Korea and the new deal is done with Iran, Trump will be awarded the Nobel prize.

 

 

[RobFord]

9 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

They need an excuse to start a new war.

 

[RobFord]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

Can the American Senate / House do anything to bring down this mad man?

 

Theres a small problem.

 

For only the second time since 1929, the Republican Party will control the House, Senate, the White House, most governorships and state houses, and will decide a Supreme Court pick.

[heybruce]

53 minutes ago, pedro01 said:

 

Trump derangement syndrome in action.

 

Once the deal is sealed with North Korea and the new deal is done with Iran, Trump will be awarded the Nobel prize.

In other words; once hell freezes over, Trump will be awarded the Nobel prize.  I agree.

 

Why would any country now go through the years of effort to negotiate a difficult deal with the US, knowing that the next US President can abandon it?

Edited May 9, 2018 by heybruce

[55Jay]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

OK, that's fine. Please leave the rest of the world alone. Make America Great and stay home ?

 

BTW, who destabilised Iran in the first place?

Da' Brits.  They stuffed up a lot of things besides Iran.

 

Quote

Britain first cast its imperial eye on Iran in the 19th century. Its appeal was location; it straddled the land route to India. Once established in Iran, the British quickly began investing — or looting, as some Iranians would say. British companies bought exclusive rights to establish banks, print currency, explore for minerals, run transit lines and even grow tobacco.

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/opinion/sunday/irans-first-great-satan-was-england.html

 

 

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, ezzra said:

Or maybe he just grew tired from a madman and tyrants pointing an ICBM loaded with nukes at his country chanting ' death to America, death to the big satan' when those missiles will be pointed at the European and Russian, maybe they'll change their tune as well...

Iran doesn't have ICBM's, doesn't have nuclear weapons, definitely doesn't have the ability to deliver a functioning nuclear weapon on an ICBM. 

 

Where do you get your misinformation?

[Basil B]

Trump has threatened none US companies that deal with Iran under the present deal with sanctions, if he does that to any UK company I hope our government hit back with sanctions on US companies based in the states that elected the fool...  

[selftaopath]

10 hours ago, jcsmith said:

That's the thing about Trump. Against the advice of allies and many of his own advisers he just does what he wants to do. And he does so without properly researching the decisions he is making. He just doesn't care. He says something and he sticks to it pigheadedly even in the face of evidence which should give him pause. 

Yes and I'm sure he's delighted that he removed yet another thing Obama did. Swamp king (SK) is so despicable. He is thin skinned and maybe doing alot of this b/c of being "roasted" by Obama... years ago. Swamp King is the poster child of vindictive and tiny.

 

There's another angle. The word in D.C. now is "pay to play" aka bribery. I would bet Israel and Saudi Arabia have "donated" fund to  SK.

 

Shame he doesn't have McCain's health issues. 

[selftaopath]

10 hours ago, Grouse said:

Can the American Senate / House do anything to bring down this mad man?

Sure they could. But they bought the "ticket" so they're in for the entire ride.  

[selftaopath]

10 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

I watched him announce this live and felt both extreme concern and an overwhelming state of depression. He lied, he mis stated the truth and twisted and spun the facts.

 

This is simply dreadful news. Bolton could barely hide his smile behind the rat on his top lip.

 

I hope that Europe collectively continue to support the deal and the same with China and Russia. We could rapidly see deals to trade in oil in Euro and Yuan.

 

Trump has just committed a crime against humanity, and how can anyone ever trust the US again when deals are agreed and signed and then torn up by the next President. The grave situation that now exists cannot be understated, it is a disaster and makes the US look like complete shysters.

Yes and still the Republican Congress will not do anything. They are complicit and as guilty as swamp king. I really hope they all get what they deserve. I fear thing will get far worse however. I will celebrate the day this cancer is distinguished. 

[selftaopath]

9 hours ago, Damrongsak said:

That would save us a few bucks. 

And please the puppet master Putin.