Most Thai varsities downgraded in new educational listings

[AsiaHand]

Do you mean that they actually have a rating here for their education system ? Where does it start at zero and go downward ?

Edited May 10, 2018 by AsiaHand

[mok199]

 the thai language should be in a museum along with most of the old fosils running this country and enforcing laws..,dragged out on cultural holidays, smileing and wearing their period costumes  ..unfortunately the children who have ambitions ,will suffer'' the ignorant bliss of these old fools''..life is grand when you never ask questions or leave the farm..

Edited May 10, 2018 by mok199
speliings

[geriatrickid]

I do not have a particularly high regard for the Thai educational system, nor do I have confidence in the abilities of those who graduate from its professional programs.

 

YET,   the system works. Thailand  Thailand is doing quite well with its "deficient" system of education. It has made tremendous gains in social services and economic health. Consider the following;

 

- Life expectancy: In 1960 was just shy of 55 years. Today it is 74 years. (The USA went from 70 to 79 years of age.)

- GDP : In 1960 it was US $2.76 billion, Today it is US $406 billion. It has averaged an increase of about 3.7% per annum over the past 25 years.

 

If I look at the World Bank assessment;

Over the last four decades, Thailand has made remarkable progress in social and economic development, moving from a low-income country to an upper-income country in less than a generation. As such, Thailand has been one of the widely cited development success stories, with sustained strong growth and impressive poverty reduction, particularly in the 1980s. 

Thailand’s economy grew at an average annual rate of 7.5% in the boom years of 1960 to 1996 and 5% following the Asian financial crisis during 1999-2005, creating millions of jobs that helped pull millions of people out of poverty. Gains along multiple dimensions of welfare have been impressive: more children are now getting more years of education, and virtually everyone is now covered by health insurance while other forms of social security have expanded.   Poverty declined substantially over the last 30 years from 67% in 1986 to 7.2% in 2015 during periods of high growth and rising agricultural prices. (The truth is that it is 27.2 %+ because 20% are living close to the poverty line and are considered vulnerable.)  Even at the more accurate number  that's an incredible accomplishment.

 

The point is that  whatever the failings are, Thailand has managed to deliver amazing results over the past 50 years. Those poorly educated and  all the negative terms people use, people  have delivered.  The results speak for themselves.  Yes, I can criticize, but I also have to accept that they have been delivering good results, consistently  for 50+ years. The Thai system is working. The Thais are smart enough that they manage to attract millions of  foreigners all of whom  are tripping over each other to get into Thailand.

Edited May 10, 2018 by geriatrickid

[PREM-R]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

I would argue that change is coming. The people now have access to communication channels, information and media which is not under the control of those who are uniformed. People always have a natural inquisitiveness and curiosity, and no longer can they be shut off from information and discussion. Once the poor, the minions, realise why they are poor, why they are minions then the pace of that change will grow like a snowball. It can't be stopped. It will be a very good thing for this society, and a very bad thing for the people who currently run it.

The problem is the hierarchical system and the 'snob' mentality of the 'educated', middle class Bangkok folk.  Bangkok folk look down on the 'buffalo' from 'up north', but fail to realize that, they too, are merely minions for the elite.  The Bangkok citizens have fallen, hook, line and sinker for the  "love king, love Thailand, love Buddha" mantra that keeps the elite in control.

[Happyman58]

I have looked at the education of Thai students and it is a complete sham. They import English Teachers from Philippines Brazil any non-English speaking countries because schools get them cheap. Honestly, has anybody come across a student who has been learning English at these schools who actually talk English and understand it. Even though they have been attending these English classes for years. They know nothing because the teacher cant even speak English and really its just game time for them in class. I have a stepdaughter 17 and I do love her to bits but she should not have gone onto Grades 11and 12  because in Grade 10 her marks were poor. Very Poor. At grade 10 she should of gone to Vocational school to learn a trade or went and got a job. Now my dear wife says she is going to go to university. I bet she will get in and god knows how far that will go. I know her abilities and there is no way she could pass her subjects at university but she will and get her degree That is the sort of rubbish that is going on here. I am sure there would be thousands just like her sitting at those universities not learning a thing and still get their degree. Outside Thailand, those degrees are worth nothing.

[Odysseus123]

3 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

I have looked at the education of Thai students and it is a complete sham. They import English Teachers from Philippines Brazil any non-English speaking countries because schools get them cheap. Honestly, has anybody come across a student who has been learning English at these schools who actually talk English and understand it. Even though they have been attending these English classes for years. They know nothing because the teacher cant even speak English and really its just game time for them in class. I have a stepdaughter 17 and I do love her to bits but she should not have gone onto Grades 11and 12  because in Grade 10 her marks were poor. Very Poor. At grade 10 she should of gone to Vocational school to learn a trade or went and got a job. Now my dear wife says she is going to go to university. I bet she will get in and god knows how far that will go. I know her abilities and there is no way she could pass her subjects at university but she will and get her degree That is the sort of rubbish that is going on here. I am sure there would be thousands just like her sitting at those universities not learning a thing and still get their degree. Outside Thailand, those degrees are worth nothing.

"I am sure that there are thousands....not learning a thing.."

 

My stepdaughter for one-nuff said.

 

On the other hand my stepson merely took a home correspondence course in complete indolence which he passed with flying colours.

[Oziex1]

19 minutes ago, Happyman58 said:

I have looked at the education of Thai students and it is a complete sham. They import English Teachers from Philippines Brazil any non-English speaking countries because schools get them cheap. Honestly, has anybody come across a student who has been learning English at these schools who actually talk English and understand it. Even though they have been attending these English classes for years. They know nothing because the teacher cant even speak English and really its just game time for them in class. I have a stepdaughter 17 and I do love her to bits but she should not have gone onto Grades 11and 12  because in Grade 10 her marks were poor. Very Poor. At grade 10 she should of gone to Vocational school to learn a trade or went and got a job. Now my dear wife says she is going to go to university. I bet she will get in and god knows how far that will go. I know her abilities and there is no way she could pass her subjects at university but she will and get her degree That is the sort of rubbish that is going on here. I am sure there would be thousands just like her sitting at those universities not learning a thing and still get their degree. Outside Thailand, those degrees are worth nothing.

I have found Thais with degrees working menial jobs, if they have no connections they have nothing.

[Eligius]

1 hour ago, AsiaHand said:

Do you mean that they actually have a rating here for their education system ? Where does it start at zero and go downward ?

I have to share this with you (I hate to - but I feel it is so appropriate to your comment, AsiaHand): I know a (Western-educated) Thai lecturer at Chulalongkorn University, and he told me earlier this year that, if his students' intelligence were measured in degrees Celsius, they would have minus degrees Celsius - 'they are below freezing point', he said. And this is speaking of Chula students! His words were harsh and obviously an exaggeration (and I personally don't like his general attitude to the students), but - interesting, nonetheless ...

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Eligius

[djayz]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What makes you think that?

 

I know students who have failed Master and Bachelor degrees at Thai universities.

I'm pretty sure the students who fail are few and far between. 

[Happyman58]

46 minutes ago, Oziex1 said:

I have found Thais with degrees working menial jobs, if they have no connections they have nothing.

Funny you should say that. I went to 7/11 in Rayong and this girl working in there around the 20s and could speak enough English to get by said to me she had a degree and this was the only job she could get. What a bloody waste of time and effort to go to university. I am sure there are many like her

[Happyman58]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

"I am sure that there are thousands....not learning a thing.."

 

My stepdaughter for one-nuff said.

 

On the other hand my stepson merely took a home correspondence course in complete indolence which he passed with flying colours.

2

Yes, you have seen it so have i. Thailand needs lots of tradesmen. These kids should be encouraged to do a trade. That would help the country more but I guess when doing a trade these so-called 18 year old kids would have to do a days work so that would turn most off. 

To be honest I think my step daughter goes to school saves her from working plus the added benefit of having a b/f which does not help the learning at all. Not that matters I guess because, in the end, she will pass grade 12 even though by rights she should not because I have seen her marks which are very low and still she will get into university. That is why the education system is in such a bad state. These kids know they will go to university no matter what, Another 3 or 4 years of having a good time while mum dad pays for it. When finished university what next for them? NOTHING Hang degree on a wall and look at it now and then

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What makes you think that?

 

I know students who have failed Master and Bachelor degrees at Thai universities.

...and I know many that SHOULD have failed!

[Lucky mike]

If you aim at nothing, you will hit it with monotonous regularity !

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

I do not have a particularly high regard for the Thai educational system, nor do I have confidence in the abilities of those who graduate from its professional programs.

 

YET,   the system works. Thailand  Thailand is doing quite well with its "deficient" system of education. It has made tremendous gains in social services and economic health. Consider the following;

 

- Life expectancy: In 1960 was just shy of 55 years. Today it is 74 years. (The USA went from 70 to 79 years of age.)

- GDP : In 1960 it was US $2.76 billion, Today it is US $406 billion. It has averaged an increase of about 3.7% per annum over the past 25 years.

 

If I look at the World Bank assessment;

Over the last four decades, Thailand has made remarkable progress in social and economic development, moving from a low-income country to an upper-income country in less than a generation. As such, Thailand has been one of the widely cited development success stories, with sustained strong growth and impressive poverty reduction, particularly in the 1980s. 

Thailand’s economy grew at an average annual rate of 7.5% in the boom years of 1960 to 1996 and 5% following the Asian financial crisis during 1999-2005, creating millions of jobs that helped pull millions of people out of poverty. Gains along multiple dimensions of welfare have been impressive: more children are now getting more years of education, and virtually everyone is now covered by health insurance while other forms of social security have expanded.   Poverty declined substantially over the last 30 years from 67% in 1986 to 7.2% in 2015 during periods of high growth and rising agricultural prices. (The truth is that it is 27.2 %+ because 20% are living close to the poverty line and are considered vulnerable.)  Even at the more accurate number  that's an incredible accomplishment.

 

The point is that  whatever the failings are, Thailand has managed to deliver amazing results over the past 50 years. Those poorly educated and  all the negative terms people use, people  have delivered.  The results speak for themselves.  Yes, I can criticize, but I also have to accept that they have been delivering good results, consistently  for 50+ years. The Thai system is working. The Thais are smart enough that they manage to attract millions of  foreigners all of whom  are tripping over each other to get into Thailand.

The missing part of your post is how the money is spread/not spread around.

[Krataiboy]

5 hours ago, Eligius said:

This is one of the best, truest posts I've seen here in a long while. Spot on, Tomta.

 

The universities say they are encouraging 'critical and analytical thinking' - but you just try to initiate an undergraduate discussion group in which Republicanism vs Monarchism is discussed, for example - and out of the door will go your 'critical thinking' and you yourself! And you will be lucky if you are not charged with lese-majeste.

 

It is the same, as you say, with many other topics. 

 

The Thais live in a reality-denying universe.

 

Sadly, the West appears to be regressing in terms of free expression and encouraging the young to challenge the contemporary landscape of ideas.

 

Political correctness are now stifling public debate and free speech in my own homeland, the UK, and I am constantly coming across disturbing evidence of the takeover of academic institutions in the US by post-modernists and neo-Marxists. 

 

The surrender of the middle ground on both sides of the Pond to the "progressive" left, manifested in academia by the establishment of  "safe" spaces at college and university campuses, threatens to produce future generations as conformist and uncritical as those churned out for decades in Thailand - with all of the problems that implies for Western society as a whole.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

Sadly, the West appears to be regressing in terms of free expression and encouraging the young to challenge the contemporary landscape of ideas.

 

Political correctness are now stifling public debate and free speech in my own homeland, the UK, and I am constantly coming across disturbing evidence of the takeover of academic institutions in the US by post-modernists and neo-Marxists. 

 

The surrender of the middle ground on both sides of the Pond to the "progressive" left, manifested in academia by the establishment of  "safe" spaces at college and university campuses, threatens to produce future generations as conformist and uncritical as those churned out for decades in Thailand - with all of the problems that implies for Western society as a whole.

Quite possibly, you have just had it your own way for too long.

 

Regarding Thailand: rotten system gets rotten results.

[DILLIGAD]

 
What makes you think that?
 
I know students who have failed Master and Bachelor degrees at Thai universities.

But did they turn up for lessons and exams?
Didn’t think so..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[George Bowman]

A well known private university in Bangkok is where I started working in Thailand in 1999 for B24,500 a year.  I taught classes like ‘English & Tourism’, Business English and conversational English. 

 

Some students would show up for class but most did not. One male on the soccer team finally showed up to class, on the last day. He flunked his final exam but received an A anyway as Western teachers could not assign the final grades. That responsibility was given to a committee that gave students grades ranging from a 3.0 to a 4.0.

 

These students attending this prestigious university come from rich and connected parents. In my class it was common to have the latest movie or fashion star along with the students involved with a sports team. One term, I had the girls on the Badminton team in class, but it was only for the first day; then I never saw them again. They still passed with flying colors. The requirements for graduation was simple, pay the school fees. 

[Krataiboy]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Quite possibly, you have just had it your own way for too long.

 

Regarding Thailand: rotten system gets rotten results.

Have you looked lately at the rotten results the UK is getting from an increasing rotten system? 

[AntDee]

7 hours ago, ravip said:

So as per the majority views it seems Thailand's  'dooms day'  is just around the corner.

How would it end?

Would Thai people be an extinct species?

Will they be colonized by some intelligent species?

 

Yea, how would it be? As there seems NOTHING correct in Thailand!

 

Many of us can love Thailand AND CONCURRENTLY have specific criticisms. 

 

For balance, some things Thailand does remarkably well. 

 

1. Appealing to the senses (sex, food, fun)

 

2. Patience - Thais are some of the most patient people on earth

 

3. Playing one off the other. For hundreds of years, Thais have been able to play politics with the best of the world's powers without getting totally swallowed up by larger countries. 

 

4. Gender balance and acceptance - Thais have a very pleasant, healthy gender balance which also (largely) accepts 3rd and 4th gendered people 

 

5. Fighting. People here can fight and surely their ability is far above average. 

 

Many things in Thailand are great, but many are not. This topic, the topic of education in Thailand, is one of the horrid areas. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by AntDee

[Eligius]

5 minutes ago, AntDee said:

Many of us can love Thailand AND CONCURRENTLY have specific criticisms. 

 

For balance, some things Thailand does remarkably well. 

 

1. Appealing to the senses (sex, food, fun)

 

2. Patience - Thais are some of the most patient people on earth

 

3. Playing one off the other. For hundreds of years, Thais have been able to play politics with the best of the world's powers without getting totally swallowed up by larger countries. 

 

4. Gender balance and acceptance - Thais have a very pleasant, healthy gender balance which also (largely) accepts 3rd and 4th gendered people 

 

Many things in Thailand are great, but many are not. This topic, the topic of education in Thailand, is one of the horrid areas. 

I would also add, AntDee, that Thais are generally the most helpful people I have ever met in my life (for the most part) - quite amazingly so, often going out of their way to be helpful. They will really put themselves out for me in a way that my compatriots would rarely do. This striking willingness to help others (certainly me) is one of the things I appreciate most about the Thais - and which I think I (personally) and many of my countrymen and countrywomen could learn from.

 

Thailand's education system, however - is the pits!

[JAG]

I think I can get my head around the 3rd gender (ladyboys I presume?) - but what is the fourth gender?

[stephen tracy]

5 hours ago, missoura said:

A well known private university in Bangkok is where I started working in Thailand in 1999 for B24,500 a year.  I taught classes like ‘English & Tourism’, Business English and conversational English. 

 

Some students would show up for class but most did not. One male on the soccer team finally showed up to class, on the last day. He flunked his final exam but received an A anyway as Western teachers could not assign the final grades. That responsibility was given to a committee that gave students grades ranging from a 3.0 to a 4.0.

 

These students attending this prestigious university come from rich and connected parents. In my class it was common to have the latest movie or fashion star along with the students involved with a sports team. One term, I had the girls on the Badminton team in class, but it was only for the first day; then I never saw them again. They still passed with flying colors. The requirements for graduation was simple, pay the school fees. 

Was it Assumption?

[arithai12]

14 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What makes you think that?

 

I know students who have failed Master and Bachelor degrees at Thai universities.

My own experience working for several years in Thai academia.

 

There might be rare exceptions. But by and large, the system lets many sub-standard students go through, and some of these become the teachers of tomorrow.

The problem is constant denial, and "we are different" is the mantra.

 

See e.g. this glorious comment

Suchatvee Suwansawat, president of the Council of University Presidents of Thailand, said Wednesday that the rankings should not be taken as a mark of substandard quality in Thai universities.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by arithai12

[TheLobster]

14 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The Thai system is working. The Thais are smart enough that they manage to attract millions of  foreigners all of whom  are tripping over each other to get into Thailand.

I think that you mean that Thai people are attractive enough and the country is attractive enough to attract millions ............ etc. nothing to do with smart, I don't see much of that here .....

[Jip99]

8 hours ago, AntDee said:

Many of us can love Thailand AND CONCURRENTLY have specific criticisms. 

 

For balance, some things Thailand does remarkably well. 

 

1. Appealing to the senses (sex, food, fun)

 

2. Patience - Thais are some of the most patient people on earth

 

3. Playing one off the other. For hundreds of years, Thais have been able to play politics with the best of the world's powers without getting totally swallowed up by larger countries. 

 

4. Gender balance and acceptance - Thais have a very pleasant, healthy gender balance which also (largely) accepts 3rd and 4th gendered people 

 

5. Fighting. People here can fight and surely their ability is far above average. 

 

Many things in Thailand are great, but many are not. This topic, the topic of education in Thailand, is one of the horrid areas. 

 

 

 

 

To be fair 3,4 and 5 could also go on the negative side of the balance sheet.

[smtsetup]

18 hours ago, Eligius said:

Thailand's universities exist on a warm, fuzzy current of hot air, lies, deception, self-deception and cant. There is wonderful talk in them of Skill Sets, Knowledge Capital, Student-Centred Learning, Hybrid Learning, Student Participation, on and on - but it is all empty talk, all nonsense, all pretense (which the Thai administrators and lecturers - engaging in characteristic Thai double-think  - have conned even themselves into believing). 

 

It is a farce.

 

Why? Because there is not a genuine culture of self-improvement, real effort, grit and educational determination in this country - never has been, all the years I've lived and worked as a professional educator here. Students, by and large, have little conception of what studying really means. The level at which education is pitched in Thai universities (by and large) is that of a 12-year-old school pupil in Great Britain. And even then, things are made relatively easy for the students here.

 

The whole thing is a huge lie and con, churning out 'graduates' who literally know next to nothing (even about the subject they have studied - and when it comes to 'general knowledge' - forget it!). I would dare to say that there are only a handful of universities in Thailand that would qualify as anywhere comparable in their students' intellectual/ analytical abilities and attainments to most Western universities.

 

And it ain't going to change anytime soon. Yes, the buzz words will change (they always do) - but the Thai education system  in reality will not. Because it is there to keep the bulk of the people stupid, unable to think critically or analytically.

 

It is so much easier for the 1% of the top power-holders to lord it over a clueless, uncritical mass of the population.

 

The Thais (the Masters) love it!

 

 

Sad but true. A couple of years ago I read about some Thai university official who wanted to promote the idea of this country becoming an "innovation society". "Not in my lifetime" was the first thing that came to my mind. A society where blind respect for authority - parents, husband, teacher, superior at work and so on - how would this society ever have what it takes to break old rules and think freely?

[Somchai Logic]

On 5/10/2018 at 6:05 AM, cornishcarlos said:

Downgraded to Kindergartens 

Upgraded to Kindergartens 

[zydeco]

In some countries, Americans and Europeans are hired to teach in top ranked universities simply because they are native speakers of English and have a B.A. or M.A. And those come from inferior institutions. When they do earn their on-the-job Ph.D. that, too, is often from an inferior institution or from the institution in which they are working.

 

In those countries, the Europeans and Americans are often unable to publish in even the most suspect scholarly journals. As for the native citizens of those countries working and holding assistant and associate professorships at top ranked universities, well, at least they have a system for getting themselves published. They plagiarize.  Openly. A co-authored text used as the basis for promotion in academic rank copied entirely from Wikipedia and a handful of companies' online websites. Another text, an edited collection of essays on a cultural topic of some import, taken entirely from Wikipedia. 

 

Again, I am speaking of "some countries." I do not address my remarks directly to Thailand.

[Odysseus123]

38 minutes ago, zydeco said:

In some countries, Americans and Europeans are hired to teach in top ranked universities simply because they are native speakers of English and have a B.A. or M.A. And those come from inferior institutions. When they do earn their on-the-job Ph.D. that, too, is often from an inferior institution or from the institution in which they are working.

 

In those countries, the Europeans and Americans are often unable to publish in even the most suspect scholarly journals. As for the native citizens of those countries working and holding assistant and associate professorships at top ranked universities, well, at least they have a system for getting themselves published. They plagiarize.  Openly. A co-authored text used as the basis for promotion in academic rank copied entirely from Wikipedia and a handful of companies' online websites. Another text, an edited collection of essays on a cultural topic of some import, taken entirely from Wikipedia. 

 

Again, I am speaking of "some countries." I do not address my remarks directly to Thailand.

Then what was your point exactly?

 

If you are not directly addressing the issue of Thailand?

 

Just needed finger exercises today?