Fuel options

[wildwildbill]

I have 2002 Honda City that I usually run on 91 gasohol. I also have a 2010 Honda Wave and a 1976 Honda C70 that I also usually run on the same fuel. Recently I tried 95 gasohol in the City and the Wave, making them both noticeably nippier and last night I also put 95 benzene in the C70, leading to similar results. So, my question is, are these fuels safe to use on my vehicles long term? I know 95 is a higher octane fuel but don't want to do any long term damage for a little bit more speed. Thanks!

Edited May 12, 2018 by wildwildbill

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, wildwildbill said:

making them both noticeably nippier

Pay more, more power will be the way you think.

[KhunBENQ]

Of course you can use gasohol 95 and it will do no harm to your motor compared to gasohol 91.

Some would even insist on using the expensive 95 benzene (without ethanol) for such old motors like the 2002 City.

But interesting to read that your older vehicles ran on gasohol obviously without problems/damage?

Many swear that you should not run an "oldtimer" motorbike with Ethanol fuel?

 

And in one to two tears time 91 gasohol will vanish from the market anyway.

At least that's the plan that has been announced.

 

91 octane fuel has been out-phased in most if not all European countries since long.

Was called "Normal" vs. "Super" in Germany.

Edited May 12, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[Lacessit]

95 gasohol is exactly the same as 91 gasohol in terms of ethanol content - 10% ethanol. The better performance noted by the OP is simply due to the octane rating.

[KhunBENQ]

16 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

95 gasohol is exactly the same as 91 gasohol in terms of ethanol content - 10% ethanol. The better performance noted by the OP is simply due to the octane rating.

Good hint.

 

Higher ethanol fuels are called E20 and E85 (%) and should only be used if explicitly specified for the vehicle.

Edited May 12, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[hkt83100]

32 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Higher ethanol fuels are called E20 and E85 (%) and should only be used if explicitly specified for the vehicle.

I am running my Toyota Avanza and my PCX150 on E20 without problems. Anvaza is from end of 2014, PCX from beginning of 2012. But for both it is mentioned in the owner's manual/fuel flap.

[KhunBENQ]

40 minutes ago, hkt83100 said:

I am running my Toyota Avanza and my PCX150 on E20 without problems. Anvaza is from end of 2014, PCX from beginning of 2012. But for both it is mentioned in the owner's manual/fuel flap.

I think all the Thailand assembled limousines are nowadays at least E20 (like mine from 2011).

And more and more seem to have "flexfuel" and can digest all up to E85.

Thailand is pushing for more ethanol fuel.

Just read today that this year 500'000 tons of sugar cane will not be exported (due to low price) but used for more ethanol.

[Kwasaki]

Despite what some people claim, there is nothing to be gained from running your vehicle on a higher octane petrol than that specified by the manufacturer other than a saving on what fuel is cheapest..

If whatever vehicle you have whether old or new, it can easily be checked to what lowest octane it is designed to run on.

Unless your engine is knocking buying higher octane petrol is a waste of money.

[Just Weird]

21 hours ago, wildwildbill said:

I have 2002 Honda City that I usually run on 91 gasohol. I also have a 2010 Honda Wave and a 1976 Honda C70 that I also usually run on the same fuel. Recently I tried 95 gasohol in the City and the Wave, making them both noticeably nippier and last night I also put 95 benzene in the C70, leading to similar results. So, my question is, are these fuels safe to use on my vehicles long term? I know 95 is a higher octane fuel but don't want to do any long term damage for a little bit more speed. Thanks!

Higher octane fuel does not increase an engine's power.

 

After you filled up with higher octane fuel the "little bit more speed" and the vehicles' being "noticeably nippier" was just psychological (or you were pushing them harder) unless other adjustments were made to the engines.

[Just Weird]

16 hours ago, Lacessit said:

95 gasohol is exactly the same as 91 gasohol in terms of ethanol content - 10% ethanol. The better performance noted by the OP is simply due to the octane rating.

"The better performance noted by the OP is simply due to the octane rating".

It isn't. 

 

Higher octane rated fuels have no effect at all on the power produced by the engine, if they did the refiners would be crowing about it and none of them claim higher bhp outputs.

[steve73]

The rubber/plastic hoses/seals/etc. on some older vehicles may "rot" with the ethanol content.   Other than that there is no problem in using Ethanol blends vs. regular providing the octane rating is high enough... and you can often counter that by delaying the timing a little (although that will reduce power output slightly).  

Detergent ad-mixes help by reducing any deposit build-up which can lead to pre-ignition (knocking) although most fuels nowadays include them as standard.

[ross163103]

A little bit off topic; but has anyone running these fuels with alcohol had any long term issues with rubber parts drying out prematurely? I know when they first came out with ethanol in fuels this was an issue. Maybe rubber technology has changed? I still avoid the ethanol when I can for this reason even though my vehicle is rated for E20.

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, ross163103 said:

A little bit off topic; but has anyone running these fuels with alcohol had any long term issues with rubber parts drying out prematurely? I know when they first came out with ethanol in fuels this was an issue. Maybe rubber technology has changed? I still avoid the ethanol when I can for this reason even though my vehicle is rated for E20.

Not off topic at all and your right it was a problem at one time and kits were made to replace components in the fuel systems.

 

This is a fair article to read.  

 

http://www.dupont.com/industries/automotive/fuel-systems/articles/materials-biofuels-bp.html

[Baerboxer]

On 5/12/2018 at 8:50 PM, KhunBENQ said:

Good hint.

 

Higher ethanol fuels are called E20 and E85 (%) and should only be used if explicitly specified for the vehicle.

 

Our Honda Freed - bought for Mrs BB and good for the lad's wheelchair etc, is 8 years old. Always runs on 95 gasohol as wifey believes that must be better than 91! Occasional put the Shell super duper fuel in for a treat. Filled Shell up couple of weeks ago 1,310 baht. Filled up with 95 last week, 1,050 baht. 

 

The HRV uses E20; and is very very nippy.

 

Follow the manufacturer's advice.

[johng]

21 hours ago, Just Weird said:

"The better performance noted by the OP is simply due to the octane rating".

It isn't. 

 

Higher octane rated fuels have no effect at all on the power produced by the engine, if they did the refiners would be crowing about it and none of them claim higher bhp outputs.

Yes higher compression ratio engines ( high performance) require a higher octane fuel to prevent the fuel  prematurely exploding before the piston has reached the proper position  which can cause

"knocking" AKA "pinging" AKA "pinking" and damage the engine.

Using a high octane fuel doesn't increase the compression ratio of an engine and doesn't increase performance.

[johng]

I believe if using too low octane fuel  some vehicles have a "knock" sensor and can do some jigery pokery with the timing which would  reduce power output...so when going back to the proper octane and everything back to normal it would appear that the fuel made a difference. ?

Edited May 14, 2018 by johng

[RajendarMangalagiri]

You pull up to the pump and you are presented with a few choices, and we're not talking about different fuel types here. We're talking, of course, about octane ratings.

Those are large figures at the fueling station, and you know if you press the higher one you're going to spend more money. Why is that and what does is all mean? Jason Fenske from Engineering Explained is here to teach us about octane ratings, and their diesel cousin, the cetane rating.

An octane rating is a scale to show you the knock resistance of a given quantity of fuel. Knock resistance relates to the amount of compression the the fuel can take before it ignites. The greater the compression allowed then the greater the knock resistance, and a higher octane rating is earned. Initially, the octane rating scale was created on a 0-100 metric. Today, with various racing fuels, you can find octane ratings over 100.

[transam]

41 minutes ago, johng said:

I believe if using too low octane fuel  some vehicles have a "knock" sensor and can do some jigery pokery with the timing which would  reduce power output...so when going back to the proper octane and everything back to normal it would appear that the fuel made a difference. ?

An engine which has knock sensors will adjust the spark timing to get rid of it. An engine may be designed to use a specific octane, if the fuel used has a lower octane than the engine requires then knock may occur...

[jackdd]

As others said already, if the manufacturer says 91 gasohol and you fill in 95 gasohol that's ok to do, but you are wasting money. There is no difference regarding the power output of the engine, if you think you noticed a difference then that's just a placebo effect.

Edited May 14, 2018 by jackdd

[transam]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

As others said already, if the manufacturer says 91 gasohol and you fill in 95 gasohol that's ok to do, but you are wasting money. There is no difference regarding the power output of the engine, if you think you noticed a difference then that's just a placebo effect.

Or it's been raining, or mist present....

[Fruit Trader]

Engineering Explained

 

Take out the guesswork and post like a pro. Also check related videos for octane and knock sensors.

 

 

[jackdd]

12 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

Engineering Explained

 

Take out the guesswork and post like a pro. Also check related videos for octane and knock sensors.

 

 

Posting a video that's sponsored by Shell (wanting to sell their premium product) doesn't give you much credibility

And why is the video called "Dyno Testing Premium Fuel" but there is no Dyno test to show that it produces more power? Maybe because it doesn't?

Edited May 14, 2018 by jackdd

[transam]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Posting a video that's sponsored by Shell (wanting to sell their premium product) doesn't give you much credibility

And why is the video called "Dyno Testing Premium Fuel" but there is no Dyno test to show that it produces more power? Maybe because it doesn't?

On my fun ride I used 98 octane from the pump. I bought a drum of 110 octane to see what would happen.....No difference, ran the same times...

[Fruit Trader]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Posting a video that's sponsored by Shell (wanting to sell their premium product) doesn't give you much credibility

And why is the video called "Dyno Testing Premium Fuel" but there is no Dyno test to show that it produces more power? Maybe because it doesn't?

Watch the other videos on sensors and automatic timing adjustment and maybe you will look less like you are talking from the rear end.

[dragonballz]

When i bought my last motorbike i asked what fuel and was told 2 different things 91 gasohol and 95 gasohol so i emailed honda in japan and was told better to use benzine if i can get it . There are no long term tests done on gasohol and might shorten the engine lif eso i did a test  in my 125cc honda
  1 litre of gasahol 91 , mileage 26 kms , top speed 97kms/h
 1 litre of benzine 95 ,mileage  37 kms , top speed 112 kms/h
 even if gasohol is ok it is not cheaper .
 My wifes son borrowed my really old bike  and put gasohol it it instead of the benzine i told him to and it started leaking fuel so took it to the honda shop and they said the gasahol had eaten the old rubber hoses 

[chingmai331]

In my old car, 1997, i only burn benzine.  A bit higher cost per liter but the fuel lines do not gum up and after my 6 week holiday the old buggy fires right up every time.  4 yrs ago i did burn the low octane ethanol-laced common fuel and could not start the car after a holiday.  So lesson learned for me.  I'm happy paying a bit more each month to avoid bigger headaches later on.  Car runs damn well too.

[Just Weird]

12 hours ago, johng said:

Yes higher compression ratio engines ( high performance) require a higher octane fuel to prevent the fuel  prematurely exploding before the piston has reached the proper position  which can cause

"knocking" AKA "pinging" AKA "pinking" and damage the engine.

Using a high octane fuel doesn't increase the compression ratio of an engine and doesn't increase performance.

I know; that's what I said!

[Just Weird]

10 hours ago, dragonballz said:

When i bought my last motorbike i asked what fuel and was told 2 different things 91 gasohol and 95 gasohol so i emailed honda in japan and was told better to use benzine if i can get it . There are no long term tests done on gasohol and might shorten the engine lif eso i did a test  in my 125cc honda
  1 litre of gasahol 91 , mileage 26 kms , top speed 97kms/h
 1 litre of benzine 95 ,mileage  37 kms , top speed 112 kms/h
 even if gasohol is ok it is not cheaper . 

Not sure what point you are trying to make but if it is that 95 RON petrol makes your bike faster than 91 gasohol you've got it the wrong way around, the gasohol is less efficient then petrol so it reduces the performance and economy

[cat handler]

On 13/05/2018 at 2:21 PM, Just Weird said:

Higher octane fuel does not increase an engine's power.

 

What the? Really, I wonder why motorsports use a higher octane fuel then and not just 91, I higher rated fuel actually does increase your horsepower or kilowatt output.

[cat handler]

23 hours ago, transam said:

On my fun ride I used 98 octane from the pump. I bought a drum of 110 octane to see what would happen.....No difference, ran the same times...

 

Did you tune the ECU for the change of fuel, if you had your times would have been quicker.