There has been a lot of press about the longer range implications of cancelling the Iran Nuclear Agreement.   Do you agree or disagree with Trump cancelling the agreement?

Disagree strongly!

 

There are several reasons for my disagreement;

 

First and foremost, it is a bit dishonorable to negotiate an agreement then not fulfill the terms. Yes, it is true that the current administration did not negotiate it, but if America's word is only valid for the term of the current Presidency, who would ever make a long-term deal with the US? Seriously, who? I wouldn't.

 

Secondly, there isn't anyone who is saying that Iran is out of compliance with the deal. If there was proof that Iran WASN'T keeping its word that would be a different story, but even the US itself says Iran is keeping to the terms.

 

Third, this was a rare deal that had the US, the Europeans, the Russians and the Chinese on board; that doesn't happen often and when it does it should be maintained with all reasonable effort.

 

Fourth, the main benefit to Iran, the return of its cash, has already occurred. 

 

Finally, there is little evidence that the US has a plan 'B'. If you sincerely believe that cancelling the deal is a good thing (and good people can disagree about that) then you need to have an alternative course of action. I do not see one.

 

This was a stupid move.

 

For all intent and purposes Iran was upholding its end of the bargain. Missile development and Foreign Deployments were not covered by this agreement and Trump should have attempted to negotiate on these with the current treaty left intact. Now you have nothing and no starting point. The USA is at odds with its allies and has strengthened the hand of Russia and China. In his own words Trump has made a dumb move.

Absolutely! 

The agreement was a very bad one for anyone other than the Iranians. 

Sorry if anyone feels it is “splitting hairs” but the Iran agreement has not been cancelled. All other signatories are maintaining the agreement. More accurate to ask if one agrees or disagrees with The Donald unilaterally reneging on the agreement. I would say the same thing about the climate control agreement on which he previously reneged.

1 hour ago, Kiwiken said:

For all intent and purposes Iran was upholding its end of the bargain. Missile development and Foreign Deployments were not covered by this agreement and Trump should have attempted to negotiate on these with the current treaty left intact. Now you have nothing and no starting point. The USA is at odds with its allies and has strengthened the hand of Russia and China. In his own words Trump has made a dumb move.

 

"Now you have nothing and no starting point."

 

Not so. The agreement is still in place, and Iran is, IMO, unlikely to help the Trump administration make its point, by renewing its nuclear activities. Such a course of action would jeopardize cooperation with the remaining signatories.

 

Regardless of what posters think of Trump, the US's diplomatic and economic leverage is still formidable. If it is brought to bear, there may be (in time) certain further concessions, restrictions and areas covered added to the Iran Deal.

 

For the record, I think pulling out was a mistake, and that it would have been possible to affect certain changes without the drama.

Anyone thinking the Iran ayatollahs are keeping their side of the deal is slightly offer  the right track.

Several sites in Iran wereld firbidden to be controller by the Atomic agency.

Of Coursera all the blahblah from the ayatollahs about peaceful goals of the program is pure nonsense.

Everthing in Iran is geared for war, including the atomics.

The proof was delivered by the paperwork stolen from these idiots.

Don't ever think the ayatollahs are human, they are not.

They have only one goal, power over the islam world.

Oh, by the way, Iran hates arabs, they think they are the "herrenvolk". 

1 minute ago, sstuff3 said:

 

Angry much? ?

Not angry. More like astonished, flabbergasted, and disappointed. I do not recognize my country any more. It has become a pale, distant, impotent, anemic version of it's former self. 

Th US will re-impose sanctions...but not the sanctions against Russia that Congress passed and Trump signed into law. They were supposed to take place in December, but Trump continues to run roughshod over the Constitution. Trump tweeted that Iran increased its military budget by 40% since the treaty was signed, with the implication that it was for nuclear armaments. In fact, their budget increased by 250% - all for conventional weapons. As he continues to make enemies of US allies, the US economy has slowed down, the dollar has lost value, the deficit has increased, and he has shown that rather than draining the swamp, he has plugged the drain. To quote him, “SAD!”

9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

 

it is a bit dishonorable to negotiate an agreement then not fulfill the terms.

RRTFLMAO

What matrix do you live in? ..cant you and the nay sayers see the reality of the world we live in.

you and yours probably believe the Queensbury rules still apply

7 minutes ago, hansnl said:

Anyone thinking the Iran ayatollahs are keeping their side of the deal is slightly offer  the right track.

Several sites in Iran wereld firbidden to be controller by the Atomic agency.

Of Coursera all the blahblah from the ayatollahs about peaceful goals of the program is pure nonsense.

Everthing in Iran is geared for war, including the atomics.

The proof was delivered by the paperwork stolen from these idiots.

Don't ever think the ayatollahs are human, they are not.

They have only one goal, power over the islam world.

Oh, by the way, Iran hates arabs, they think they are the "herrenvolk". 

Look at facts of IAEA inspections, not your opinion. "The proof was delivered by the paperwork stolen from these idiots." Are you referring to the old news, the paperwork from BEFORE agreement was worked out? Suggest you look at idiot tweet from WH where they had to correct "Iran has had a clandestine nuke program"

"Don't ever think the ayatollahs are human, they are not." They are human. This sort of talk used by racists before "final solution" is implemented. Iran doesn't trust the West? Have you looked at what has been done to them? US coup to overthrow elected government and install the Shah and support his secret police? and on and on. I am not saying gov in Iran is paragon of virtue, I suggest you might try to understand why they are the way they are. Chickens come home to roost.

While I think it is important to keep your word, I thought it was a very poor agreement. It was clear from the very first that the beneficiaries were large multi national corporations from the countries of the signatories. It did not make the world at large safer.

There was no real deal.  Obama did not have the right to enter into a contract without going through Congress.  Another one of his shady deals with no other than John Kerry negotiating.  What ever was there was not binding on anyone.  Iran NEVER signed the deal.  Then Obama gives the biggest sponsor of terrorism $150 billion and flies in a plane loaded with another $1.8 billion.  Where did he get the money?  Took out his credit card and went to the US Treasury?  All the fake news stations firmly in Obama's corner covered up all that they could.  Kerry himself said something like. 'we can expect a portion of the $150 billion dollars will wind up in terrorist's hands.'  He should be locked up going to see the Iranian regime behind Trump's back.  Wish he would wind up in jail will all the other crooks from the Obama Administration who over stepped their authority as spell out in the Constitution.   If Obama went threw Congress and this was a legal treaty, there is nothing Trump could do about it.  I am happy that Israel tore in Iranian assets in Syria the other day.  I just hope the US has the weapons to cover our needs and the needs of Israel.

24 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

How are the North Koreans going to trust the US, when a lightweight like Tiny Don just walks away from an agreement? He is a goon. An incompetent fool. Keeping Iran under check was far better than letting them do as they please. Most international experts agree the agreement seemed to be working. As long as you are not listening to the disinformation campaign put out by the fool and his minions, it is easy to determine that it was working.

 

Triple D (draft deflecting don) might be the most dangerous man on the planet, at this point in time.

 

Thankfully, he will not remain in office for more than 12 more months. Resignation, impeachment, or prison, are in his future, and many of us will be very, very thankful for that. 

 

Tiny DT. The art of moving America backwards, and lowering the quality of life for the average American. 

The art of I cannot make a deal to save my life. 

The art of never, ever saying no to a lobbyist.

The art of losing talent in droves, and replacing them with sycophantic fools, devoid of talent or experience. 

The art of attempting to lead a nation, while being infected with the thinnest skin of a world leader, in history. 

The art of not having a diplomatic bone in his body, and destroying long held alliances, with hate, hubris and a horrible lack of intelligence, vision and talent.

 

And this is a prime example why you should stay away from drugs kids...........

20 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Not angry. More like astonished, flabbergasted, and disappointed. I do not recognize my country any more. It has become a pale, distant, impotent, anemic version of it's former self. 

 

If you're over 20 and under 70 it ought to be fairly recognizable.

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Disagree strongly!

 

There are several reasons for my disagreement;

 

First and foremost, it is a bit dishonorable to negotiate an agreement then not fulfill the terms. Yes, it is true that the current administration did not negotiate it, but if America's word is only valid for the term of the current Presidency, who would ever make a long-term deal with the US? Seriously, who? I wouldn't.

 

Secondly, there isn't anyone who is saying that Iran is out of compliance with the deal. If there was proof that Iran WASN'T keeping its word that would be a different story, but even the US itself says Iran is keeping to the terms.

 

Third, this was a rare deal that had the US, the Europeans, the Russians and the Chinese on board; that doesn't happen often and when it does it should be maintained with all reasonable effort.

 

Fourth, the main benefit to Iran, the return of its cash, has already occurred. 

 

Finally, there is little evidence that the US has a plan 'B'. If you sincerely believe that cancelling the deal is a good thing (and good people can disagree about that) then you need to have an alternative course of action. I do not see one.

 

This was a stupid move.

 

As was to be expected from a patently stupid megalomaniac. Shame on the US to have elected such a joke as its president.

The list of countries that entered into the agreement isn’t that impressive when you consider none of Iran’s neighbors liked it. Who has more to lose if things go awry?  The Germans?  Chinese?  Russians?  Of course not. It’s the Saudis, Israelis, Emirates, etc. 

Obama didn’t have one foreign affairs achievement. Unless he was giving taxpayers money away, like the Paris Accord and the Iran deal. As the White House said, those are not the people we are interested in taking advice from!

53 minutes ago, thaipo7 said:

There was no real deal.  Obama did not have the right to enter into a contract without going through Congress.  Another one of his shady deals with no other than John Kerry negotiating.  What ever was there was not binding on anyone.  Iran NEVER signed the deal.  Then Obama gives the biggest sponsor of terrorism $150 billion and flies in a plane loaded with another $1.8 billion.  Where did he get the money?  Took out his credit card and went to the US Treasury?  All the fake news stations firmly in Obama's corner covered up all that they could.  Kerry himself said something like. 'we can expect a portion of the $150 billion dollars will wind up in terrorist's hands.'  He should be locked up going to see the Iranian regime behind Trump's back.  Wish he would wind up in jail will all the other crooks from the Obama Administration who over stepped their authority as spell out in the Constitution.   If Obama went threw Congress and this was a legal treaty, there is nothing Trump could do about it.  I am happy that Israel tore in Iranian assets in Syria the other day.  I just hope the US has the weapons to cover our needs and the needs of Israel.

Nothing wrong with one less country having nuke capabilities ,especially when that country refuses to renegotiate a deal with America ,put a side  the other countries that aren't being threaten and have trade agreements . Perhaps the Mullahs don't understand threats of death to America and burning flags only solidifies America's decision to pull out of Obama's Iran Deal.  

1 hour ago, Catoni said:

Easy.....the North Koreans can easily see that Trump is a man who keeps the promises he made. How soon the Clinton and Sanders leftists conveniently forget Trump’s  campaign promises. 

   What in hell is good about a bad deal that lets the Iranians continue to finance terrorism and necessitates giving the Iranians 24 days notice of site inspection?? 

     Why would the Iranians need 24 days notice of site inspection?

    I see that Trump Derangement Syndrome is well entrenched in Thai Visa. 

I for one, would be very interested to read about 'ANY' promises he has made and 'KEPT'  !!!

Oh Yea, I am sure that all the expats here in Thailand have great insight in the world of politics, science, and nuclear  treaties  and just waiting for the "Think Tanks" in Europe and The US  to create an opening for them. 5555

The next great survey might be who here can help to explain in layman's terms " Why hasn't  the world of scientific minds  been unable to explain gravity ?

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

I do not recognize my country any more. It has become a pale, distant, impotent, anemic version of it's former self. 

I feel it's my duty to point out this is the GOVERNMENT, not the PEOPLE, who are acting insane. Here I go again, dragging out this old story: I used to work on boats, one day I received an Iranian customer. The instant he realized I was American, he and I looked at each other with grave suspicion. As the day went on, we realized we were the same - we wanted family, security, friendship - and that is was our governments pitting us against each other.

 

I have an Iranian friend who explained to me the following about the news story of Iranian leadership burning the U.S. flag: "The reason they’re setting the US flag on fire is because they want to keep the Iranians in line.... they’re gonna go on national TV and say “ hey, they’re coming for us. We need to unite and fight them off” meanwhile they’ll gather all their assets and move to another country... leaving poor people in a <delete>ing mess that was orchestrated and planned by them and their master overlords."

 

 

2 hours ago, hansnl said:

Anyone thinking the Iran ayatollahs are keeping their side of the deal is slightly offer  the right track.

Several sites in Iran wereld firbidden to be controller by the Atomic agency.

Of Coursera all the blahblah from the ayatollahs about peaceful goals of the program is pure nonsense.

Everthing in Iran is geared for war, including the atomics.

The proof was delivered by the paperwork stolen from these idiots.

Don't ever think the ayatollahs are human, they are not.

They have only one goal, power over the islam world.

Oh, by the way, Iran hates arabs, they think they are the "herrenvolk". 

Spot on analysis of the situation. The verification process would have to be as rigorous as the one between USSR and NATO back in the early 80s and 90s, that entailed unannounced inspections, with visiting teams having in-restricted access the bases.  The Mullahs will never accept this, they have a goal, and will not be deflected.

2 hours ago, hansnl said:

Anyone thinking the Iran ayatollahs are keeping their side of the deal is slightly offer  the right track.

Several sites in Iran wereld firbidden to be controller by the Atomic agency.

Of Coursera all the blahblah from the ayatollahs about peaceful goals of the program is pure nonsense.

Everthing in Iran is geared for war, including the atomics.

The proof was delivered by the paperwork stolen from these idiots.

Don't ever think the ayatollahs are human, they are not.

They have only one goal, power over the islam world.

Oh, by the way, Iran hates arabs, they think they are the "herrenvolk". 

Agree. I wouldn't trust an Iranian ayatollah as far as I could throw him. At my age it isn't far. Well done the Donald.

It may be worth considering the actual purpose of the "agreement"

 

1) Diplomacy is a matter of doing what is possible

 

2) Iranian production of highly enriched uranium has been slashed

 

3) Iran has indeed been delayed in producing nuclear warheads

 

4) I think most informed people agree that the Iranian people are unhappy being governed by the Republican Guard and extreme right wing Mullahs

 

5) Freeing up the Iranian economy was a way to embolden the Iranian people.

 

So, the "agreement" has worked and is working 

 

To coin a dreadful Americanism, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

26 minutes ago, dlodratsab said:

I for one, would be very interested to read about 'ANY' promises he has made and 'KEPT'  !!!

I guess you haven’t been keeping up. Oh well. He’s only just been in office for a bit more than one year of his term, but, in spite of the left, and other Trump haters doing everything they can to stop him, he has indeed kept some of his campaign promises already. Here’s a few for you:

1. Slashing federal regulations ...done and doing more at every opportunity.

2. Lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying for foreign governments....done.

3.  Nominate a replacement for Antonin Scalia....done.

4.  Prevent the closure/keep open Guantanamo Detention Center....done.

5.  Withdraw from the stupid and wasteful Paris Climate Alarmist Agreement....done.

6. Withdraw from the TTP...done.

7. Save the Carrier plant in Indiana with all the jobs for its workers....done

8. Create a 10% Repatriation Tax....done

9. Reverse Obama’s 2016 firearms executive order....done

10. Cut taxes for the middle class and some others, letting more people keep more of their hard earned money...done

 

   Well, there’s some...I’m sure there’s more. Trump’s only had a bit more than a year. And the haters and leftists are doing everything they can to stop him, put barriers so he can’t do anything. Taking the opposition he faces, I’m surprised at how much he’s been able to do so far.

   Oh... I just remembered a couple more...

11.  Moving the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv...to Jerusalem..... done

 12.  Taking care of the North Korea situation...not yet done...but well in progress. 

 

  Do feel free to check on these items....I’m sure I’m missing a few other campaign promises that Trump’s kept ...and he has a few more year to go to keep more promises in any case.

   Do have a wonderful happy day. ?

Bomb, bomb, bomb, 

Bomb bomb Iran!

2 hours ago, bkkgriz said:

Keep dreaming mate. Trump will be in office until 2024. All the fantasies dreamed by killary and her globalist cronies have failed.

Record stock market. Low unemployment. Looming peace on the Korean peninsula. Dismantling the Obama "legacy" brick by brick has been a beautiful sight. No more limp wristed appeaser in the White House. MAGA.

Where does one start?

There was no candidate named Killary.

Stock market? Yeah sure, but doesn't help the majority of Americans that aren't in the market. 

Globalist is a hateful code word now used by toxic white nationalists.

Unemployment numbers are deceptive. A huge portion of people are in no security gig jobs with no benefits, part time, or gave up looking. There are plenty of openings for sure but a huge portion of the population can't fill those jobs and commitment to training them is very low.

Also note, wages are NOT rising and the "trump" tax cuts are almost all about massive windfalls for the very wealthy, and it truly is CRUMBS for everyone else.

Yes, we're all hopeful about Korea, but celebrations are incredibly premature.

Dismantling the Obama legacy just because it was done by a black president? We can't pretend that "trump" isn't a racist. He started his political career being the leader of the racist "birther" movement for several years. So "trump" has largely trashed Obamacare and replaced it with nothing helpful. It wasn't ideal before. "trump" has made it much worse. Why? Just to spite Obama? That is truly evil and sick.

Limp wristed? I get it. Many "trump" supporters are rabid homophobes as well. 

 

The agreement isn't cancelled as it wasn't between the US and Iran. It was between several countries and Iran, and the USA dropped out. Agreement with the other countries still stands.

Funny again how the USA thinks the whole world revolves around them again. 

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Where does one start?

There was no candidate named Killary.

Stock market? Yeah sure, but doesn't help the majority of Americans that aren't in the market. 

Globalist is a hateful code word now used by toxic white nationalists.

Unemployment numbers are deceptive. A huge portion of people are in no security gig jobs with no benefits, part time, or gave up looking. There are plenty of openings for sure but a huge portion of the population can't fill those jobs and commitment to training them is very low.

Also note, wages are NOT rising and the "trump" tax cuts is almost all about massive windfalls for the very wealthy, and it truly is CRUMBS for everyone else.

Yes, we're all hopeful about Korea, but celebrations are incredibly premature.

Dismantling the Obama legacy just because it was done by a black president? We can't pretend that "trump" isn't a racist. He started his political career being the leader of the racist "birther" movement for several years. So "trump" has largely trashed Obamacare and replaced it with nothing helpful. It wasn't ideal before. "trump" has made it much worse. Why? Just to spite Obama? That is truly evil and sick.

Limp wristed? I get it. Many "trump" supporters are rabid homophobes as well. 

 

“Stock market? Yeah sure, but doesn't help the majority of Americans that aren't in the market.”

     

 Huh ??   Where did you go to school? 

When the stock market is doing well, people are investing it, businesses in turn build and expand, creating more jobs. This most certainly benefits almost everyone, even creating jobs for the unemployed, and bringing more food and manufactured item to the market and R & D to create new things. And on and on. 

    Pretty well all of society benefits, not just investors in the stock market. 

  Guess what happens when the stock market does very badly.