One killed in Paris knife attack by man shouting 'Allah Akbar'

[Orton Rd]

19 hours ago, simple1 said:

Outstanding and rapid response by French police. Thankfully these Islamist attacks currently appear to be slowing in tempo in Western countries. RIP to the murdered victim and quick recovery for the injured.

Partly the result of security services success in thwarting jihadist attacks and some atttacks not being recorded as such, it's not for the want of them trying, or continuing to want to kill. The list of attacks is appalling so a dip is hardly something to crow about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks

[geriatrickid]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More hyperbole.

How many Muslims in the West, how many are terrorists?

The West is at war with ISIS, that war is asymmetric. 

You wilfully, and without any evidence, attribute the attrocities commited by ISIS and ISIS supporters with all Muslims.

 

You pointedly refuse to accept the observable fact that the vast majority of Muslims are peace loving law abiding people who like the vast majority of non Muslims do not go around hating, killing or injuring people.

 

You yourself are a fear and hatred monger.

 

You are, as I have pointed out above, eagerly playing the part terrorists and extremists have planned for you.

 

Not hyperbole. You disagree because it is contrary to the dictatorial pablum you wish us to ingest. The fact of the matter is that the muslims in the west  are prevented from forcing their way of life on others because those who are opposed are strong enough to resist. Unfortunately, what has been demonstrated in cities where the muslims dominate is that;

1.  Non muslims are afraid to circulate lest they be attacked by the morality patrols or be accused of offending muslims. The classic example of this is Blackburn in the UK which is now one of the most segregated urban areas in the UK. In plain language, the muslims create  their enclaves into which infidels are neither welcome nor wanted.

 

2. In cities where muslims hold sway, Christians are denied their freedom of expression. For example; Pastor George Saeig of California filed a lawsuit against the city of Dearborn after he was prevented in 2009 by the City of Dearborn from handing out Christian pamphlets in 2009. Dearborn Police Chief  Haddad had the pastor arrested. The The civil rights case pertained to Amendment 1 (Freedom of association) and Amendment 14 (Equal treatment of all citizens)  The case was settled on appeal in 2012 when the court ruled that the city could not curtail the defendant's civil rights despite there having been a local law that said Dearborn could prevent the activity of the pastor. Pastor Saeig then won his case.

In 2010, the  Dearborn police continued their  harassment of Christians with the arrest  of four Christian missionaries and charged them with disturbing the peace. Their civil rights were violated when they were jailed on the bogus charges. The  first court threw out the charges. They then filed suit over the case. The city of Dearborn had to apologize and pay $300,000.   And on and on it goes.

 

In Paris, muslims take over arrondisement districts and do not allow non muslims entry, particularly during their self proclaimed holy months.

 

I am neither spreading hatred, nor fear, but am stating the reality. I am all for respecting the civil liberties  and religious freedoms of others. However, it is a two way street and requires these people to respect the rights and liberties of others. 

 

 

[bert bloggs]

17 hours ago, RickBradford said:

The " millions of peaceful Muslims" are irrelevant.

 

It's the small percentage of Muslims who slaughter concert goers with bombs and AK-47s, drive trucks into holidaying crowds, stab people randomly in the street, on trains, in railway stations, that people are concerned about.

 

If you think that merely talking about Islamic terrorism is wrong, then you are part of the problem, not the solution. At the very least, desperately trying to bury the subject and pretend it doesn't exist, as the media tries to do, merely encourages the rise of far Right-wing thuggery.

Strange that there are never Christian terrorists ,Jewish terrorists Bhuddist terrorists ,Hindu Terrorists ,Seventh day adventist Terrorists .Or any other terrorists ,but only Muslim terrorists carrying out these attacks in the west.

Q the usual suspects telling us about the shootings in America by nut jobs ,to try and divert from the facts.

Edited May 14, 2018 by bert bloggs

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Not hyperbole. You disagree because it is contrary to the dictatorial pablum you wish us to ingest. The fact of the matter is that the muslims in the west  are prevented from forcing their way of life on others because those who are opposed are strong enough to resist. Unfortunately, what has been demonstrated in cities where the muslims dominate is that;

1.  Non muslims are afraid to circulate lest they be attacked by the morality patrols or be accused of offending muslims. The classic example of this is Blackburn in the UK which is now one of the most segregated urban areas in the UK. In plain language, the muslims create  their enclaves into which infidels are neither welcome nor wanted.

 

2. In cities where muslims hold sway, Christians are denied their freedom of expression. For example; Pastor George Saeig of California filed a lawsuit against the city of Dearborn after he was prevented in 2009 by the City of Dearborn from handing out Christian pamphlets in 2009. Dearborn Police Chief  Haddad had the pastor arrested. The The civil rights case pertained to Amendment 1 (Freedom of association) and Amendment 14 (Equal treatment of all citizens)  The case was settled on appeal in 2012 when the court ruled that the city could not curtail the defendant's civil rights despite there having been a local law that said Dearborn could prevent the activity of the pastor. Pastor Saeig then won his case.

In 2010, the  Dearborn police continued their  harassment of Christians with the arrest  of four Christian missionaries and charged them with disturbing the peace. Their civil rights were violated when they were jailed on the bogus charges. The  first court threw out the charges. They then filed suit over the case. The city of Dearborn had to apologize and pay $300,000.   And on and on it goes.

 

In Paris, muslims take over arrondisement districts and do not allow non muslims entry, particularly during their self proclaimed holy months.

 

I am neither spreading hatred, nor fear, but am stating the reality. I am all for respecting the civil liberties  and religious freedoms of others. However, it is a two way street and requires these people to respect the rights and liberties of others. 

 

 

Your arguments are awash with generalised statements:

 

‘ Muslims in the west’ (All of them?!)

’Non Muslims’ (All of them?!)

 

And when you run out of your own hyperbole you quote that provided by others.

 

As I pointed out earlier, their you ignore the vast majority of law abiding peace loving Muslims while ranting your secondhand hogwash.

 

You are peddling fear and hatred.

 

 

[geriatrickid]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’m impressed, somebody took the time to give you bible class and you remembered the good bits.

 

Imagine now if you took the time to find out what the Koran has to say from someone who wants you to understand in context rather than relying on Islamophobic websites and purveyors of Islamophobia for your “knowledge”.

I am impressed that as an agnostic, I still remember this stuff. I never cared much for a religion that could worship the image of a dead jew on a stick, yet create so many anti semites. 

 

If we were to rely on the Quran as you suggest, its followers would need to be treated as violent criminals because the Quaran despite the best efforts of its followers advocates violence, intolerance and hate. Better educated people than me have done the analysis and it is available for all to see. The defining characteristic is that there is no room for discussion, no interpretation: As it is written, so must it be done.

 

Oh yes, I anticipate that you will say that the bible, the Old Testament for the Jews and the Old and New Testament for Christians also  has some violent passages. Very true. However, the big difference is that the Jews are taught to question their Bible, to probe and to reinterpret with  changing times. It's why they no longer accept slavery or the stoning of criminals or other such acts. Christianity is the same. Christians have come a long way since apostates were burnt at the stake. And that's the key point; Judaism and  Christianity are constantly evolving. Islam is not.

 

 

[Opl]

27 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your arguments are awash with generalised statements:

 

‘ Muslims in the west’ (All of them?!)

’Non Muslims’ (All of them?!)

 

And when you run out of your own hyperbole you quote that provided by others.

 

As I pointed out earlier, their you ignore the vast majority of law abiding peace loving Muslims while ranting your secondhand hogwash.

 

You are peddling fear and hatred.

 

 

 

Abiding laws is normal - especially when you immigrate. No need to mention it.

Abiding laws and cultural habits of your host country is both an obligation and the condition to integrate. No need to congratulations.

 

What's not normal, is the extra dose of burden some immigrants bring to their non muslim host countries, including the ignorance, the hatred,  they bring and spread with them - incivilities in everyday life, diverse traffickings, etc... therefore causing harm to those who do integrate well and did before. and to the rest of the population and above all the bad name they give to the passport they carry when granted their host country citizenship.

 

Invite yourself at someone's home for dinner, then later put your feet on the table, request your host to shut up or adjust and submit, then complain against discrimination and islamophobia.. 

 

NO. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/france-100-mosques-close-151202142023319.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-stop-muslims-praying-street-ban-islam-interior-minister-a8064591.html

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11352268/What-is-going-wrong-in-Frances-prisons.html

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Opl

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Orton Rd said:

a dip is hardly something to crow about.

Don't put words in my mouth

[Scott]

I am not going to get in the middle of this discussion, but I have worked with resettlement of refugees, of which a large number were Muslim.  

 

As a general rule, it is not a good idea for groups to be settled in the same area where the formation of a sort of ghetto can occur.   The key to provide an environment that is conducive to integration.   Not doing so will result in social conflicts and problems.  

 

Some countries and places have been better at providing a positive environment for integration than others.  

 

 

 

[Bill Miller]

14 hours ago, The Renegade said:

And he stated wrongly.

 

When you disclose your qualifications I will take the time to destroy them.

 

Nowhere in the world is everybody a potential suspect

In point of fact I am a former teacher.

To re-iterate, your reading comprehension grade is F.

Perhaps you need a redo of grade four, where the word "potential" was often included in vocabulary lists.

I am not fond enough of TV to fear calling you out as an ignorant sod.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Bill Miller

[Chomper Higgot]

41 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

Abiding laws is normal - especially when you immigrate. No need to mention it.

Abiding laws and cultural habits of your host country is both an obligation and the condition to integrate. No need to congratulations.

 

What's not normal, is the extra dose of burden some immigrants bring to their non muslim host countries, including the ignorance, the hatred,  they bring and spread with them - incivilities in everyday life, diverse traffickings, etc... therefore causing harm to those who do integrate well and did before. and to the rest of the population and above all the bad name they give to the passport they carry when granted their host country citizenship.

 

Invite yourself at someone's home for dinner, then later put your feet on the table, request your host to shut up or adjust and submit, then complain against discrimination and islamophobia.. 

 

NO. 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/12/france-100-mosques-close-151202142023319.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/france-stop-muslims-praying-street-ban-islam-interior-minister-a8064591.html

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11352268/What-is-going-wrong-in-Frances-prisons.html

 

 

 

“Ignorance and hatered” you say.

[Opl]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“Ignorance and hatered” you say.

Yes I do, and repeat : the ignorance of their own religion of peace and the hatred of western countries, jews,  and other muslims they consider not radical enough.. not to mention LGBT, women as inferiors, polygamy, underage marriages,  etc, etc.. help yourself in this  backward tribal mentality display..  

Sharia , you say. 

anything else?  

Edited May 14, 2018 by Opl

[Bill Miller]

22 minutes ago, Opl said:

Yes I do, and repeat : the ignorance of their own religion of peace and the hatred of western countries, jews,  and other muslims they consider not radical enough.. not to mention LGBT, women as inferiors etc, etc.. help yourself in this  backward tribal mentality display..  

Sharia , you say. 

anything else?  

You are grossly misinformed, or supporting false information for, who knows what reason?
Numerous respected poll taking outfits find that about 8% of Muslims world wide have a favorable view of Isis and jihadist activities.
You imply that it is a majority of Muslims.
"...backward tribal mentality display.. " You looking in a mirror? 

[Opl]

16 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

You are grossly misinformed, or supporting false information for, who knows what reason?
Numerous respected poll taking outfits find that about 8% of Muslims world wide have a favorable view of Isis and jihadist activities.
You imply that it is a majority of Muslims.
"...backward tribal mentality display.. " You looking in a mirror? 

you are misreading, I wrote " some" never imply the "majority"

or/ and  "misunderstanding".

besides, it takes only 1 motivated black sheep to "perform" a mass killing.

and I do think bedouin mentality, as well as tribal mentality are backwards - do you feel targeted? 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2018 by Opl

[The Renegade]

9 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Numerous respected poll taking outfits find that about 8% of Muslims world wide have a favorable view of Isis and jihadist activities.

8% of 1.8 Billion Muslims is a lot of Muslims squire.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

8% of 1.8 Billion Muslims is a lot of Muslims squire.

Nowhere near as many as the other 92%.

[Orton Rd]

Just now, Scott said:

I am not going to get in the middle of this discussion, but I have worked with resettlement of refugees, of which a large number were Muslim.  

 

As a general rule, it is not a good idea for groups to be settled in the same area where the formation of a sort of ghetto can occur.   The key to provide an environment that is conducive to integration.   Not doing so will result in social conflicts and problems.  

 

Some countries and places have been better at providing a positive environment for integration than others.  

 

 

 

what countries would they be? seems that no matter how 'positive' the environment provided Muslims cannot and will not integrate into a host country as well as others do, it's against Islam.

[Jai Dee]

Several off-topic troll posts and argumentative posts have been removed from this thread.

[sukhumvitneon]

Islam and the West go together like oil and water.  Why take them in?  Where's the benefit to the host country? They want to come here in droves but what is the West gaining?

[Bill Miller]

23 minutes ago, Opl said:

you are misreading, I wrote " some" never imply the "majority"

or/ and  "misunderstanding".

besides, it takes only 1 motivated black sheep to "perform" a mass killing.

and I do think bedouin mentality, as well as tribal mentality are backwards - do you feel targeted? 

 

 

 

Ipso facto you did NOT, in this statement, say "some": or "misunderstanding". 
The implication is very much about all Muslims e.g. " the ignorance of their own religion of peace and the hatred of western countries, jews,  and other muslims they consider not radical enough.. not to mention LGBT, women as inferiors etc, etc.. help yourself in this  backward tribal mentality display..

[Bill Miller]

31 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

what countries would they be? seems that no matter how 'positive' the environment provided Muslims cannot and will not integrate into a host country as well as others do, it's against Islam.

Pray quote that part of the Koran where Muslims are directed to not integrate into a host country?
If it is "...against Islam..." then there must be a commandment in The Koran.

[Bill Miller]

29 minutes ago, Jai Dee said:

Several off-topic troll posts and argumentative posts have been removed from this thread.

Probably some of mine.
Ignorance and bigotry can push me beyond the bonds of politesse.
My apologies to any I have distressed.

 

[Opl]

13 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Ipso facto you did NOT, in this statement, say "some": or "misunderstanding". 
The implication is very much about all Muslims e.g. " the ignorance of their own religion of peace and the hatred of western countries, jews,  and other muslims they consider not radical enough.. not to mention LGBT, women as inferiors etc, etc.. help yourself in this  backward tribal mentality display..

 

refer to my post n° 156 - third line.

that's all folks! 

[joecoolfrog]

19 hours ago, fanjita said:

Typical.  Are you blaming the host country?

What is typical and how on earth am I blaming the victims or anybody else ? 

 

19 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

They always do ,the appeasers .

I have never shown a glimpse of appeasment to any terrorist in my entire life , hardly surprising given I came close to a couple of Irish bombs when I was younger.

19 hours ago, fanjita said:

Typical.  Are you blaming the host country?

Err No !

Edited May 14, 2018 by joecoolfrog

[joecoolfrog]

18 hours ago, fanjita said:

This is too radical, I know.  How about treating all potential terrorism suspects as just that and interning them on some remote island.  

 

I'm open to consultancy services for European governments.  It won't go down well but I know what I'm talking about.

 

19 hours ago, fanjita said:

This is too radical, I know.  How about treating all potential terrorism suspects as just that and interning them on some remote island.  

 

I'm open to consultancy services for European governments.  It won't go down well but I know what I'm talking about.

If you knew what you were talking about you would realise that large scale internship was tried in Ulster during the early seventies. It was a disaster , not least because many of the terrorist propagandists and money men were safely tucked up in New York and Boston.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, sukhumvitneon said:

Islam and the West go together like oil and water.  Why take them in?  Where's the benefit to the host country? They want to come here in droves but what is the West gaining?

Millions of Muslims living peaceful, law abiding lives in the west expose you’re ‘oil and water’ statement as the nonsense it is.

[katana]

2 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Pray quote that part of the Koran where Muslims are directed to not integrate into a host country?
If it is "...against Islam..." then there must be a commandment in The Koran.

Quran (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are

friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of

them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

Quran (3:28) - "Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if

any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard

yourselves from them..."

[observer90210]

Without entering into the debate of any religion, the french authorities could start moving a step higher and plainly arresting all those who are on the radicalisation watchlists.

 

This killer was on the watch list and it may be the moment for Macron and his cronies to explain why he was more involved in travelling or signing business deals in the middle east for his corporate pals and not doing also this part of his job back home to ensure the public safety of his people ?

 

How many more people in France will it be necessary to be murdered by people on terror watchlists, before Macron will attempt to do someting ?

 

Such terror attacks are directed against all normal peaceful daily living people, should they be muslims, jews, hindus, christians, chinese, thais, british, americans...whatever....

Edited May 14, 2018 by observer90210

[simple1]

35 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

Without entering into the debate of any religion, the french authorities could start moving a step higher and plainly arresting all those who are on the radicalisation watchlists.

 

This killer was on the watch list and it may be the moment for Macron and his cronies to explain why he was more involved in travelling or signing business deals in the middle east for his corporate pals and not doing also this part of his job back home to ensure the public safety of his people ?

 

How many more people in France will it be necessary to be murdered by people on terror watchlists, before Macron will attempt to do someting ?

 

Such terror attacks are directed against all normal peaceful daily living people, should they be muslims, jews, hindus, christians, chinese, thais, british, americans...whatever....

To repeat, the French government has been arresting and deporting Islamists advocating violence for a number of years. The killer in the OP was on a Fiche S watchlist on which there are 15 levels of designations.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiche_"S"

 

At this stage all we know is the guy did not have a criminal record, but

 

"The suspect had been on the government’s terrorism watch list since 2016, placed there, according to French news reports, because of his contacts with a man whose wife had attempted to go to Syria:.

[mauGR1]

4 hours ago, Scott said:

I am not going to get in the middle of this discussion, but I have worked with resettlement of refugees, of which a large number were Muslim.  

 

As a general rule, it is not a good idea for groups to be settled in the same area where the formation of a sort of ghetto can occur.   The key to provide an environment that is conducive to integration.   Not doing so will result in social conflicts and problems.  

 

Some countries and places have been better at providing a positive environment for integration than others.  

 

 

 

Very good post.

Unfortunately, in the case of France (Paris ) the myopic authorities have been too slow to acknowledge that.

How to deal now, with a Muslim country inside the country itself ?

Note that i'm not blaming the population of either side , i am blaming the authorities for letting things go too far.

[observer90210]

5 minutes ago, simple1 said:

To repeat, the French government has been arresting and deporting Islamists advocating violence for a number of years. The killer in the OP was on a Fiche S watchlist on which there are 15 levels of designations.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiche_"S"

 

At this stage all we know is the guy did not have a criminal record, but

 

"The suspect had been on the government’s terrorism watch list since 2016, placed there, according to French news reports, because of his contacts with a man whose wife had attempted to go to Syria:.

To repeat again, public opinion in France is getting fed up and is calling for Macron to wake up and start to detain those on the "fiches S" (watch lists). Ok the fellow had no criminal record under what the current french Code Pénal requires, but the law needs to be reformed by l'Assemblée Nationale (the French Parliament) and criminalize those on the Fiches S, thus enabling them to be plainly arrested. But Macron is more business oriented and his priorities are elsewhere obviously.