Court decides: AirBnB illegal in Thailand for daily and weekly rental

[newnative]

5 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

I disagree I believe they will make concessions for most hotels but the condo short term is doomed. Too many bitter condo dwellers are applying pressure and the law is strictly on their side from several fronts. The days of dropping off a horde of Chinese are numbered. I don't have a dog in the hunt, just MHO.

Hope you are right.

[bkk6060]

5 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

I disagree I believe they will make concessions for most hotels but the condo short term is doomed. Too many bitter condo dwellers are applying pressure and the law is strictly on their side from several fronts. The days of dropping off a horde of Chinese are numbered. I don't have a dog in the hunt, just MHO.

We will see.

Repeating myself I know but still 100's everyday at the Base, Centric, Unixx and many other condos in town.

I actually think it will take more like some of the major hotels getting together and complaining as these ST condo renters are taking business away from them. Don't know, but they certainly are not listening to the residents with the BS answer "we cannot control it".

[Destiny1990]

Without a steady tenant flow no more condo sales either..

if Airbnb works abroad then why not here...

[sam neuts]

Without a steady tenant flow no more condo sales either..
if Airbnb works abroad then why not here...

A lot to do with the fact that Thailand wants OTA's to be paying tax.

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[Destiny1990]

2 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

A lot to do with the fact that Thailand wants OTA's to be paying tax.

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Well thats easy to fix..

by the way how they know they get tax from long term tenants rentals?

i think they just follow what hotel union suggested them!

[sam neuts]

I wonder if this rule is specific to condominiums, or will a person that rented his spare houses for daily or weekly stays via air bnb also be affected? 

Due to the amendment to the Hotel Act in 2016 most listings on OTA's are now illegal.

Many places throughout Thailand are being inspected and are no longer able to offer bookings of less than 30 days.

Some Hotel owners/managers are being arrested and processed through the courts.

With the OTA issues, and the lack of Hotels with a licence in Thailand, there are certainly problems ahead.

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[balo]

I think the Chinese influence will make sure AirBNB will continue and the condo management will allow it to happen .

When the Thai/Chinese invest millions of baht with the purpose to rent out to Chinese tourists and others, they will not allow this to happen .  Influential people will make sure it will be business as usual, the law will probably change to their favor. 

 

 

[sam neuts]

Forget AirBnb, book a Hotel, just check thy have a valid hotel Licens. remember 24 h reporting is done by Hotel. Even Airbnb has to comply with Thai Law operating in Thailand.

Only problem is finding hotels with a licence, as it is not shown on most OTA's listings, regardless of which company you book through.

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[Wake Up]

4 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Without a steady tenant flow no more condo sales either..

if Airbnb works abroad then why not here...

Because a lot of Bangkok Airbnb party guys ruin the condo living experience. In a hotel you have management 24/7 and understand the risks of bad neighbors and you are only at the hotel temporarily.  When you rent long term for a home you have no real options other than to call the police.  

 

Now some Chinese are starting to Airbnb per a reliable source that lives in a BKK condo. IMO you have to choose to have a condo that allows short term stays and acts like a hotel or bars them. No in between. 

 

 I will only rent long term or buy at a condo that bars it. I have seen agents try to bribe security guards to allow Airbnb guests but so far I have been lucky to rent two condos in two different buildings in BKk that bar it. I also have written into my condo lease that I can move and get 100 percent of my deposit back if short term Airbnb rentals are allowed. I have not had to try and enforce this provision but I would move out of any long term rental if I had Airbnb guests making life miserable for me. 

 

The rest of the world has police that will do something about party people and laws to rectify damages against a condo owner that rents to bad Airbnb guests. Thailand needs to just bar AirBNb and enforce the hotel laws IMO. If you bought a bunch of condos relying on rental income from Airbnb then you made a business judgment and will have a large loss or become long term landlords.  Not our problem. 

[JAZZDOG]

14 minutes ago, Wake Up said:

Because a lot of Bangkok Airbnb party guys ruin the condo living experience. In a hotel you have management 24/7 and understand the risks of bad neighbors and you are only at the hotel temporarily.  When you rent long term for a home you have no real options other than to call the police.  

 

Now some Chinese are starting to Airbnb per a reliable source that lives in a BKK condo. IMO you have to choose to have a condo that allows short term stays and acts like a hotel or bars them. No in between. 

 

 I will only rent long term or buy at a condo that bars it. I have seen agents try to bribe security guards to allow Airbnb guests but so far I have been lucky to rent two condos in two different buildings in BKk that bar it. I also have written into my condo lease that I can move and get 100 percent of my deposit back if short term Airbnb rentals are allowed. I have not had to try and enforce this provision but I would move out of any long term rental if I had Airbnb guests making life miserable for me. 

 

The rest of the world has police that will do something about party people and laws to rectify damages against a condo owner that rents to bad Airbnb guests. Thailand needs to just bar AirBNb and enforce the hotel laws IMO. If you bought a bunch of condos relying on rental income from Airbnb then you made a business judgment and will have a large loss or become long term landlords.  Not our problem. 

Exactly, In the US there is no grey area, you will be charged and fined enough to make renting ST unprofitable. In LOS it is black, white and everything in between. Influence peddling here, not laws, dictate what happens across the board. Enjoy Thailand but only invest knowing all is at risk. Travel light and be ready to make way towards the exits should shit head south. It is very affordable to retire here if you adhere to those rules. It can be one of the most expensive if you don't. Every game must have rules that players abide by or the game is a joke. Same with countries and governments. Home field advantage here is worth at least to scores from the jump.

[DrTuner]

4 hours ago, balo said:

I think the Chinese influence will make sure AirBNB will continue and the condo management will allow it to happen .

When the Thai/Chinese invest millions of baht with the purpose to rent out to Chinese tourists and others, they will not allow this to happen .  Influential people will make sure it will be business as usual, the law will probably change to their favor. 

Quite likely. A good reason not to buy a condo, or a house/villa in Pattaya if you're not ok with rowdy daily changing bunch of Chinese as next door neighbors. The squeezing out of farangs continues, sanctioned by Mr. P himself:

 

http://time.com/5318224/exclusive-prime-minister-prayuth-chan-ocha-thailand-interview/

 

Quote

The friendship between Thailand and China has been over thousands of years, and with USA for around 200 years, and we remain these ties between our fellow countries until now. China is the number one partner of Thailand, along with other countries in the second and third place like the U.S. and others. 

 

Flee while you can, shave your shelves!

[madmitch]

Without the ability to apply hotel tax to unlicensed properties, the island is being denied much needed revenue that could be reinvested into infrastructure. There remains an imperative to ensure that the 1,295 unlicensed hotels currently operating in Phuket are dealt with swiftly and effectively, to ensure the issue does not do damage to the island’s international reputation. 

 

I don't think this is correct. As far as I know, we are in the pending category, yet we pay room tax. We have heard absolutely nothing from the OrBorJor regarding an inspection or progressing towards a full licence since we registered with them. It would be quite nice if they could use some of their taxes to introduce a payment system other than the current one which involves driving to the office in Phuket Town and paying the tax in cash! 
 

What's very telling is the fact that only six hotels have been licensed in Phuket with a further 1001 pending since the purge around two years ago, a purge that, according to sources in his home town, allegedly contributed to the then Governor losing his job. It appears to me that they cannot be bothered. If hotels on the pending list  are paying tax, then that's all they are interested in.

 

We have a licence from the Tessabaan. They've inspected us and that, as far as I am concerned, is a licence to operate.

 

I'd also like to know how the unlicensed hotels, probably mostly guesthouses, could damage Phuket's international reputation. Typical of Bill Barnett's operation, they seem to conveniently forget that properties of all levels and standards are required to cater for people on different budgets. In the age of online reviews it's not difficult to avoid substandard properties.

 

The 488 establishments they have suggested as not having so much as registered to apply for a licence is almost certainly well-understated. And if they know who these 488 hotels are, why aren't the authorities paying them a visit? Because they are too busy sorting out licences for the rest of them? I don't think so. 

 

 

[Destiny1990]

7 hours ago, Wake Up said:

Because a lot of Bangkok Airbnb party guys ruin the condo living experience. In a hotel you have management 24/7 and understand the risks of bad neighbors and you are only at the hotel temporarily.  When you rent long term for a home you have no real options other than to call the police.  

 

Now some Chinese are starting to Airbnb per a reliable source that lives in a BKK condo. IMO you have to choose to have a condo that allows short term stays and acts like a hotel or bars them. No in between. 

 

 I will only rent long term or buy at a condo that bars it. I have seen agents try to bribe security guards to allow Airbnb guests but so far I have been lucky to rent two condos in two different buildings in BKk that bar it. I also have written into my condo lease that I can move and get 100 percent of my deposit back if short term Airbnb rentals are allowed. I have not had to try and enforce this provision but I would move out of any long term rental if I had Airbnb guests making life miserable for me. 

 

The rest of the world has police that will do something about party people and laws to rectify damages against a condo owner that rents to bad Airbnb guests. Thailand needs to just bar AirBNb and enforce the hotel laws IMO. If you bought a bunch of condos relying on rental income from Airbnb then you made a business judgment and will have a large loss or become long term landlords.  Not our problem. 

Should be up to each condo management to decide how to do rentals its certainly not up to u..

[newnative]

10 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Should be up to each condo management to decide how to do rentals its certainly not up to u..

   Except short-term condo rentals are against Thai law.  Condo management  can't override Thai law.  

[Destiny1990]

10 minutes ago, newnative said:

   Except short-term condo rentals are against Thai law.  Condo management  can't override Thai law.  

Look i agree with u about widening the pavements but we dont need to agree each topic..

Laws can change or adjusted.

i dont see harm in airbnb guests look at the Phillipines airbnb is booming its  bringing them  loads of visitors and money.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Destiny1990

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Look i agree with u about widening the pavements but we dont need to agree each topic..

Laws can change or adjusted.

i dont see harm in airbnb guests look at the Phillipines airbnb is booming its  bringing them  loads of visitors and money.

Yes, Thai laws can be changed, but not by condo management.   'Loads of visitors' might be good for some but not for condo residents expecting to live in a residential environment, which is why there are bans on short-term rentals in many places around the World, not just Thailand.

[JAZZDOG]

14 minutes ago, newnative said:

Yes, Thai laws can be changed, but not by condo management.   'Loads of visitors' might be good for some but not for condo residents expecting to live in a residential environment, which is why there are bans on short-term rentals in many places around the World, not just Thailand.

Agreed and it is not like they weren't aware when they purchased. 

[Destiny1990]

7 hours ago, newnative said:

Yes, Thai laws can be changed, but not by condo management.   'Loads of visitors' might be good for some but not for condo residents expecting to live in a residential environment, which is why there are bans on short-term rentals in many places around the World, not just Thailand.

Well sorry for u but now it seems airbnb is going to stay in Thailand maybe u need change ur business model u seem inventive enough?

[Peterw42]

8 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Look i agree with u about widening the pavements but we dont need to agree each topic..

Laws can change or adjusted.

i dont see harm in airbnb guests look at the Phillipines airbnb is booming its  bringing them  loads of visitors and money.

Its not bringing the Philippines any "more" visitors and money, people were probably going there anyway, they are not going there because airbnb is legal.

[Destiny1990]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

Its not bringing the Philippines any "more" visitors and money, people were probably going there anyway, they are not going there because airbnb is legal.

Its Giving people more options where to stay which is always good..

[newnative]

5 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Its Giving people more options where to stay which is always good..

Good for tourists, maybe, but not good for condo residents being overrun with vacationers who should be in hotels.

[Peterw42]

30 minutes ago, Destiny1990 said:

Its Giving people more options where to stay which is always good..

I imagine its all the same problems, a lot of pissed off people in residential buildings, landlords avoiding tax and being unaccountable, dedicated purpose built hotels with less customers. People staying in substandard buildings that were never intended to be hotels, lack of insurance, security, safety and no one to be held accountable.

I can put up tents down on the beach and give people "more options".

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by Peterw42

[sam neuts]

We will see what airbnb offers the Thai government soon.
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2018/06/25/airbnb-teases-major-partnership-with-thai-govt/

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[mokwit]

11 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

We will see what airbnb offers the Thai government soon.
http://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2018/06/25/airbnb-teases-major-partnership-with-thai-govt/

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No mention in that article of how AirBnB affects people living in their homes and how very unwelcome it is.

[sam neuts]

No mention in that article of how AirBnB affects people living in their homes and how very unwelcome it is.

Obviously OTA's have no real interest in anything other than bottom line.

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[brucec64]

11 hours ago, Destiny1990 said:

Should be up to each condo management to decide how to do rentals its certainly not up to u.. 



It's actually up to the co-owners to decide, and the condo management to enforce. If management is not doing their job, it's up the committee to take action.

 

I think it's reasonable to put a non-airbnb clause on the condo. A well run condo can easily stop short term rentals.

 

[sam neuts]

Agreed that it should be contolled by a good management comitee.

I think you will find the condominium block has to obtain a hotel licence for short term rentals under the Hotel Act.

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[DrTuner]

57 minutes ago, mokwit said:

No mention in that article of how AirBnB affects people living in their homes and how very unwelcome it is.

Why would there be, no money to be made after the sale is done. Let them steep in the Chinese soup, maibpenrai.

[newnative]

40 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

Agreed that it should be contolled by a good management comitee.

I think you will find the condominium block has to obtain a hotel licence for short term rentals under the Hotel Act.

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Most condominiums are legally registered as condominiums at the Land Office so I don't think a hotel license would be allowed.

[sam neuts]

Most condominiums are legally registered as condominiums at the Land Office so I don't think a hotel license would be allowed.

They have to apply for change of usage to a condotel with many changes and inspections to comply with. Expensive.

Condominium residential units are designed differently to short term accommodation units.

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