Four years after coup, Thais tire of corruption and democratic delays

[PatOngo]

Four years after coup, Thais tire of corruption and democratic delays

Four years after the coup?........Corruption has been endemic in Thailand for generations, was it ok before?

Get used to it, it is here to stay!..........Greed Conquers All!

[timewilltell]

So the NCPO can't tackle corruption? That is simply not true. They could if they really wanted to. Where in all the laws they have passed, have we seen the obvious cases of corruption met with harsh prison sentences? 

 

Thailand is an absurdity of the obvious fact that the law is not intended to work. Even when corrupt or murderous individuals are eventually punished, the punishment is either absurdly lenient or the people go to jail only to be let out the next day to spend their time in a cushy private hospital on supposed health grounds. 

 

The place needs something more widespread than is happening now and a demand for appropriate justice and transparency in operation of government at all levels. And that is a long way off.

[ICECOOL]

Thai's and many expats like a little bit of corruption and think it's OK. Problem is you cannot just have a little bit. 

[peterb17]

2 hours ago, Eligius said:

So now, according to the article, there is already talk of an 'election' delay until June 2019.

 

And then there will be some glorious national festival (all happy pomp and circumstance) to delay things further - and possibly a very sad national event, to delay things for nearly another year.

 

The junta ain't going anywhere soon.

 

Yes I suspect you are correct.

 

Of course we do not discuss or mention the sad event- but is likely to happen soon. Then as you say- delay for another year. 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

When the time comes, and it will, the people will walk right through those guns.. Then we will see just how committed, to the trough, these generals are !!!

 

You reckon!

[Baerboxer]

34 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

Four years after coup, Thais tire of corruption and democratic delays

Four years after the coup?........Corruption has been endemic in Thailand for generations, was it ok before?

Get used to it, it is here to stay!..........Greed Conquers All!

 

Indeed. Always been there, and like all cancers grows and grows until it kills its host.

 

But this coup was partly justified on removing a very corrupt regime and then cleaning up corruption,

 

As we have seen, unfortunately they seem to be more a part of the problem than the solution!

 

And, yes, here greed, selfishness and face conquers all. 

[greeneking]

30 minutes ago, peterb17 said:

Yes I suspect you are correct.

 

Of course we do not discuss or mention the sad event- but is likely to happen soon. Then as you say- delay for another year. 

Prem or another one?  Got a Coronation to sort out too.  Examples of unrest will be further excuses.  And not yet finished Parliament building.  And waiting for 'lucky' day confirmation from the temple.

[cornishcarlos]

38 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You reckon!

 

Yup, I do... History has a tendency to repeat itself !!

[Baerboxer]

Just now, cornishcarlos said:

 

Yup, I do... History has a tendency to repeat itself !!

 

What historical event are you referring to ?

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

Mana Nimitmongkol, secretary-general of the Anti-Corruption Organization of Thailand, an independent body which monitors state corruption, told Reuters the military government has "done more to battle corruption than any other government in Thai history".

Some hypocrisy in that statement:

"How can the public help?

The anti-amnesty rallies were a real phenomenon. People never took to the streets this fast and in this many numbers before. The parliament passed the bill at 4:25am on Nov 1 and the next morning there were thousands of people out protesting against it. I can only say that people need to keep doing this." Anti-Corruption Organization of Thailand Director Mana Nimitmongkol on Fighting Abuses of Power, by Monruedee Jansuttipan, Nov. 29, 2013.

http://bk.asia-city.com/city-living/article/mana-nimitmongkol-director-anti-corruption-organization-thailand

So Mana now is okay with

• the military government passing laws that forbid the very mass street protests that he believes led to a change in government behavior;
• the NCPO using Article 44 to bypass laws, regulations and public participation involving government projects like the EEC and high speed rail;
• a military government that rules by absolute power over the Thai people by armed force
• a military government that grants itself unlimited amnesty for all its actions;
• continued patronage under the military government;
• the Thai courts losing their constitutional independence following the coup and became politicized;
• the PM and NCPO Chief Prayut chairing the National Anti-Corruption Board that includes Deputy Prime Minister and Defense Minister General Prawit as co-chairman.

Surely Mana must recognize that the military junta, despite promises, has made little progress in weeding out corruption.

Mana should be honest and admit that he doesn't support reforming populist movements but rather the dominance of a centralist well-connected royalist and conservative minority of Thais whose prominent social position would be threatened by populists.

 

Corruption in Thailand: Running in Place, April 5, 2018

https://thediplomat.com/2018/04/corruption-in-thailand-running-in-place/

[cornishcarlos]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

What historical event are you referring to ?

 

Any uprising by an oppressed population. Often instigated by students. 1973 in Thailand, I believe ??

It's happened in Thailand before and in plenty of other countries, where freedoms were curtailed for too long by certain "governments"..

Edited May 17, 2018 by cornishcarlos

[asiamaster]

Bring back the midnight curfew...

[KiwiKiwi]

4 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

 

When the time comes, and it will, the people will walk right through those guns.. Then we will see just how committed, to the trough, these generals are !!!

 

Hmmm. Maybe, but I think it's already too late, the cowardly Thai has already sent a message about his inner nature.

 

A couple of years ago, I noticed a post that said the people (Thaksin) should send out small squads to follow and shoot soldiers on the street. Make them afraid to be soldiers, foster a mutiny. Whist not advocating violence, I think the military has made it an inevitability. It would have been a better strategy for the Thai than just rolling over to have his tummy tickled, which is what actually happened.

[KiwiKiwi]

1 hour ago, peterb17 said:

Yes I suspect you are correct.

 

Of course we do not discuss or mention the sad event- but is likely to happen soon. Then as you say- delay for another year. 

 

It seems to me the event is likely to be soon, but which will be sooner, the chicken or the egg? Because one of the eggs isn't looking too good right now.

[Eligius]

2 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

It seems to me the event is likely to be soon, but which will be sooner, the chicken or the egg? Because one of the eggs isn't looking too good right now.

Whether chicken or egg - either event will be a suitable occasion for a very, very lengthy delay in the 'election'.

[KiwiKiwi]

2 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Four years after coup, Thais tire of corruption and democratic delays

Four years after the coup?........Corruption has been endemic in Thailand for generations, was it ok before?

Get used to it, it is here to stay!..........Greed Conquers All!

 

Much as I hate to say it, the Chinese approach to corruption seems to work the best. Wait for conviction then shoot them. See how fast corruption in Thailand comes to a juddering halt if a bullet in the head is in the offing instead of an inactive post on full salary and a pension..

 

Still, Thais know best...

Edited May 17, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[Wilsonandson]

 
Much as I hate to say it, the Chinese approach to corruption seems to work the best. Wait for conviction then shoot them. See how fast corruption in Thailand comes to a juddering halt if a bullet in the head is in the offing instead of an inactive post on full salary and pension..

And those wrongfully convicted? Whoops, too late when your dead. I think the law in China to qualify for the death sentence is you must have recieved kick backs more than a half million Usd.

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[sawadee1947]

Very well and precisely analyzed.

However with ready to shoot guns in their hands the junta will tell us what is right or wrong. And....democracy is definitely wrong!

 

[GarryP]

47 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

 

Much as I hate to say it, the Chinese approach to corruption seems to work the best. Wait for conviction then shoot them. See how fast corruption in Thailand comes to a juddering halt if a bullet in the head is in the offing instead of an inactive post on full salary and a pension..

 

Still, Thais know best...

Seems to work best? Then how come corruption is still so pervasive there? It rates only slightly better than Thailand. 

[KiwiKiwi]

16 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

And those wrongfully convicted? Whoops, too late when your dead. I think the law in China to qualify for the death sentence is you must have recieved kick backs more than a half million Usd.

Sent from my SM-A700FD using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

In general I am not in favour of the death penalty in any nation, for the reason you state and a number of others. Having said that, corruption is surely a greater threat to national security than many of the relatively trivial trespasses that this iniquitous government has used to charge people with sedition and other things.

 

On balance, in cases where guilt cannot be questioned, I think it is likely to be a more effective deterrent that the smack on the wrist the buggers get now. Including of course, many of the current government - allegedly.

[KiwiKiwi]

8 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Seems to work best? Then how come corruption is still so pervasive there? It rates only slightly better than Thailand. 

erm, because they haven't been  serious at combating corruption for very long and things like this do take time, although visible actions are better than some muppet general saying 'trust me, I've solved the corruption problem'. Or getting some other numbskull to write it in a highly dubious book (worked before so it'll work again - right?)

 

When you say corruption is pervasive there, and without disputing that, do you have any numbers to support that positio?. Always recalling that Thais learned corruption from the incoming Chinese, whose culture has been characterised by what we would now term corruption for centuries...

 

Which is a part of the overall attractiveness or otherwise of the Chinese culture - though I accept that appears to be changing quite quickly.

Edited May 17, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[GarryP]

1 minute ago, KiwiKiwi said:

erm, because they haven't been  serious at combatting corryption for very long and things do take time.

 

When you say corruption is pervasive there, and without disputing that, do you have any numbers to support that position. Always recalling that Thais learned corruption from the incoming Chinese, whose culture has been characterised by what we would now term corruption for centuries...

 

Which is a part of the overall attractiveness or otherwise of the Chinese culture - though I accept that is changing quite quickly.

Sorry no figures, just ratings from a number ow websites (mostly based on perception).

 

I too have read that it has a cultural link to China, probably through guanxi which came with the large flow of Chinese immigrants. I have no evidence to back that up though.

 

For Thailand, they should end the practice of inactive posts and smacks on the wrist to civil servants. They should be fired if found guilty and all rights they had as civil servants removed (special health care, pensions, loans, etc).    

[owl sees all]

6 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

When the time comes, and it will, the people will walk right through those guns.. Then we will see just how committed, to the trough, these generals are !!!

Really!!

 

I hope you are right, but history is not on the people's side in these anti-establishment uprisings.

 

Two main reasons for the coup, and they go hand in hand.

 

To break the democratic model (as it was at the time).

 

To crush the Shins and the Reds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by owl sees all

[KiwiKiwi]

32 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Sorry no figures, just ratings from a number ow websites (mostly based on perception).

 

I too have read that it has a cultural link to China, probably through guanxi which came with the large flow of Chinese immigrants. I have no evidence to back that up though.

 

For Thailand, they should end the practice of inactive posts and smacks on the wrist to civil servants. They should be fired if found guilty and all rights they had as civil servants removed (special health care, pensions, loans, etc).    

 

I'm sure we can both agree on that. I have no evidence that a lot of the cultural problems Thailand has were inherited from Chinese immigrants. Fortunately I don't have to demonstrate it - mainly because it is so obvious that it would be against common sense to suggest otherwise.

 

I'm sure there will be those who will shout 'evidence? evidence?', but my reply to them is thusly. If I see clouds and feel strong wind and hear thunder, I am going to connect that with the rain that follows. Shout 'evidence?' all you like, but I'm getting my umbrella, you can do what you want...

 

Edited May 17, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[KiwiKiwi]

4 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Really!!

 

I hope you are right, but history is not on the people's side in these anti-establishment uprisings.

 

Two main reasons for the coup, and they go hand in hand.

 

To end the democratic model (as it was at the time).

To crush the Shins and the Reds.

 

 

 

In my opinion, both of these objectives are and have been means to an end. In this coup, there was only one objective and a number of beneficial (to the army and the police) consequences of that one objective. They should both be abolished. Let whoever wants to, invade and colonise Thailand. Perhaps they'll clear up the litter and rubbish...

[metisdead]

A troll post has been removed. 

[robblok]

30 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Sorry no figures, just ratings from a number ow websites (mostly based on perception).

 

I too have read that it has a cultural link to China, probably through guanxi which came with the large flow of Chinese immigrants. I have no evidence to back that up though.

 

For Thailand, they should end the practice of inactive posts and smacks on the wrist to civil servants. They should be fired if found guilty and all rights they had as civil servants removed (special health care, pensions, loans, etc).    

How about making sure that all the money they made gets confiscated, and a jail term. I understand the inactive posts during an investigation (in other countries they are send home during an investigation). 

[sjaak327]

"The junta came in, shut the people out, did everything their way. So we can't say we're happy," Prayong Doklamyai, a coordinator for People's Movement for Just Society (P-Move), told Reuters.

The Thai people took part in the reform process. The junta didn't shut people out. There was also a referendum on the constitution.You must be joking. A referendum that violated all principles of democracy and free and fair elections. Of course they shut the people out, none of the people ever voted for them.

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[JAG]

5 hours ago, rkidlad said:

And this is why you have regular elections. If a government keeps making promises it's not meeting, you can vote them out. And if a government comes in and it's terrible, at least they were voted in! 

Yes, and isn't it ironic, perhaps the ultimate irony, that if the last election had been allowed to run it's course, rather than having been forestalled by a coup which installed a junta, the elected government would now - four years later - be preparing to answer to the electorate! 

Instead we have had an utterly unaccountable junta, which shows every indication of staying in power for the foreseeable future as well.

 

How does the mantra go: "reforms before elections"?

[sjaak327]

 
Indeed. Always been there, and like all cancers grows and grows until it kills its host.
 
But this coup was partly justified on removing a very corrupt regime and then cleaning up corruption,
 
As we have seen, unfortunately they seem to be more a part of the problem than the solution!
 
And, yes, here greed, selfishness and face conquers all. 

In a democratic society a coup is never justified. Let's not try to rewrite histories with lies. The corrupt regime as you call them were voted in with a very clear mandate and at the time were already in care taker status with elections scheduled.


The real reason for the coup was to prevent those elections and deny the Thais choosing their government, a right enshrined into the constitution. All because a very small portion of the population cannot accept the outcome of elections and want access to taxpayer money without actually trying to follow the law and secure a mandate

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