Thaksin wants to return home, says Chavalit

[Bundooman]

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 "Is Thaksin much/any different from a hundred/eight hundred/three thousand other Hi-Sos or Military Officers? Is there any 'legitimacy' to his 'conviction'? If there is 'legitimacy' to his 'conviction', would it not be proper or just for hundreds/thousands of other Hi-Sos or Military Officers to be tried and sentenced as well?"

This is a most interesting and thought provoking argument. Probably one of the best, if not the most important post regarding Thaksin ever to appear on this forum. It certainly highlights the overwhelmingly impossible problem so openly obvious in today's Thai society.

 

I came to live in Thailand in 2005, after travelling around Asia for the previous 9 years, not to mention  3 earlier visits dating back to the '60s, during my career in the Royal Navy. Thaksin was Prime Minister when I arrived here to make Thailand my home. I watched and read my way through the Thaksin saga as many other Expats did. We all remember how popular he was but at the same time, being aware of his ever increasingly insidious stranglehold of the media and the seemingly "dictator' style personality traits that he was increasingly displaying. 

 

At first, I thought he was an OK guy that all Thais liked. As time passed I saw a different side of him and his crew. The OP is 100% correct. He is, (and was), no different from any of the others and the recent 'multiple watch' saga, together with the obvious nepotism and corruption within this present government is a clear indication that Thailand is historically rooted in this kind of behaviour, probably extending back to 1932, or maybe, even further back that to when Hi-Sos and wealthy businessmen were dipping their fingers in the feed trough. It is their country and that is how it is. We just watch, (no pun intended), admire, discuss between ourselves or fume, and either accept Thailand for what it is or move on.

 

But I have no regrets about staying here. I love this country, it is now my preferred home, despite these glaring problems, together with the 'lovable' antics of the RTP, appalling driving, (I drive East-west-south regularly), the trash, pollution, double- pricing and many other irritations. Generally speaking, the Thai people are very friendly and likeable, the food and climate are absolutely wonderful and my lifestyle is filled with the interests I have. 

 

I wouldn't have the same lifestyle back in my own country, which I also love, but don't wish to reside there. So, like many others - yourselves, I again watch, listen and read with anticipation as to how this particular story unfolds and events leading up to the ever-moving election date.

 

And now my second coffee of the day is finished and I'm off to start my real day. I hope you all have a good day too.

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

 

 

 

[Dario]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

The new owners of the Nation edited the interview where Chavalit warned the military of the consequences of prolonging their dominance and he will never support Prayut. The military is not united. 

"Chavalit warned the military" (junta)? Is there a video to substantiate your post? 

[sandrew33]

8 hours ago, smedly said:

I agree, there is absolutely nothing stopping this corrupt criminal from returning to Thailand, me as a foreigner can be here but something seems to be stopping him getting on the plane, oh and 2 years is ……..so far, I suspect when it it is all said and done through the courts it will be more like 100 years

 

best he stays in Dubai and tries to enjoy the dirty Billions he stole from the Thai people.

 

<removed>

 

I'd love you to inform me as to which billions it is that he stole from the Thai People? 

 

I assume you are referring to either (a) the tax matter - which was a standard planning approach taken by pretty much every Thai with offshore/onshore interests at the time (there are both scholarly and tax lawyer opinions available on this online if you are interested in understanding or (b) the famous land deal - which any basic examination will show to be a trumped up post coup bit of nonsense. 

 

Thaksins crime was not to know how place with the oligarchy and military and to do things they routinely do only better. He was a threat to the recurring order. That's why he was removed. 

 

Every senior Thai politician could be found guilty of an offence tomorrow if they wanted to. The entire system is flawed. It's always seemed odd to me that the charges they actually convicted him on were so obviously flawed. I guess that made it easier for every developed country to ignore any request for extradition as the political nature of the charges was so obvious? 

 

The following article contains (as you go past the first few paragraphs) a concise summary of the issues raised against Thaksin in the charges he was found guilty of. It also refers to more detailed sources for those actually interested to learn. 

 

http://www.newmandala.org/a-response-to-vanina-sucharitkul/

 

The author is what Thais would call a hiso Thai with economics and law degrees from leading western universities. He's a very engaging chap too whose primary concern is genuine democracy in Thailand. 

[Eric Loh]

How is that some still think he should remain and serve time when the military arranged for him and Yingluck to escape. Gullible lot here. 

[The Deerhunter]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I see nothing to stop him coming home anytime he wants. He has accommodation waiting for him, and three meals a day for two years, and I am pretty sure he will get a free pick up from the airport too!

Two meals a, day, I though it was.  Maybe depends on the prison.  Either way no problem.  Tell him to bring "Boss"  and his sister with him.  They are probably homesick too.   And that monk from America.

[Eric Loh]

18 minutes ago, Dario said:

"Chavalit warned the military" (junta)? Is there a video to substantiate your post? 

Try expand your reading to other media instead of relying on the pro junta Nation. 

[bigpanda42]

Easy pick him up from the airport.....take him straight to jail....never to be released

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[The Deerhunter]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Try expand your reading to other media instead of relying on the pro junta Nation. 

The only red rag I ever see is in Spanish sports T.V.

[mike324]

12 minutes ago, sandrew33 said:

 

I think this post perfectly sums up both the ignorance and stupidity of both a fair number of both the posts in here + a large slab of the farang population here. 

 

I'd love you to inform me as to which billions it is that he stole from the Thai People? 

 

I assume you are referring to either (a) the tax matter - which was a standard planning approach taken by pretty much every Thai with offshore/onshore interests at the time (there are both scholarly and tax lawyer opinions available on this online if you are interested in understanding or (2) the famous land deal - which any basic examination will show to be a trumped up post coup bit of nonsense. 

 

Thaksins crime was not to know how place with the oligarchy and military and to do things they routinely do only better. He was a threat to the recurring order. That's why he was removed. 

 

Every senior Thai politician could be found guilty of an offence tomorrow if they wanted to. The entire system is flawed. It's always seemed odd to me that the charges they actually convicted him on were so obviously flawed. I guess that made it easier for every developed country to ignore any request for extradition as the political nature of the charges was so obvious? 

Tax matter regarding to the sell of his company to Termesak. Yes this was a trump up charged which was thrown out in court. 

 

Regarding to the land deal which he was Guilty of and which is what he was sentence. His wife bought a land which Thaksin was required to put his signature down resulted in it being an illegal transaction due to conflict of interest laws. The law is the law and he is found guilty, this was not a trumped up charge.

 

Yes pretty much over 50% of police and politicians are corrupt. Let me ask you, where should be start then? Should we pardon Thaksin and start with smaller fish? Examples like Thaksin is what will make people watch their backs. We have to start somewhere, why didn't Thaksin enforce laws when he was PM for almost a decade? Yet his supporters are crying other politicians are corrupt. Thats the Thai mentality that is holding the country back.

 

As I've said over and over again, Thailand needs to take 2 steps back before they can move forward again. 

[Krungbin]

Thaksin "wants" to make the same come back Mahatir did. He has always been dreaming to become the Mahatir of Thailand...

[sandrew33]

4 minutes ago, mike324 said:

Tax matter regarding to the sell of his company to Termesak. Yes this was a trump up charged which was thrown out in court. 

 

Regarding to the land deal which he was Guilty of and which is what he was sentence. His wife bought a land which Thaksin was required to put his signature down resulted in it being an illegal transaction due to conflict of interest laws. The law is the law and he is found guilty, this was not a trumped up charge.

 

Yes pretty much over 50% of police and politicians are corrupt. Let me ask you, where should be start then? Should we pardon Thaksin and start with smaller fish? Examples like Thaksin is what will make people watch their backs. We have to start somewhere, why didn't Thaksin enforce laws when he was PM for almost a decade? Yet his supporters are crying other politicians are corrupt. Thats the Thai mentality that is holding the country back.

 

As I've said over and over again, Thailand needs to take 2 steps back before they can move forward again. 

Go and read the summary of the land transaction in the link I provided in my post. Your assertion is incorrect. 

 

The firm i worked with in Thailand at the time did quite a bit of the advice and liasion with the government agencies involved. 

 

It was all bogus. 

 

As to Thaksin as some sort of cautionary tale. <deleted> man. He's proof - as is his sister - that Thailand is controlled by a small group who won't ever cede power without a fight. Period. 

 

As a cautionary tale, it's done nothing to stop anyone on the other side of the divide from doing whatever the hell they want. Even to this day. 

 

Surely you can't be that naive? 

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, rooster59 said:

He said a vicious cycle of election, military coup and a new constitution had taken place again and again since Thailand became a constitutional monarchy in 1932. “Thailand is the only country to have 20 constitutions. Most other countries have only one or two each,” he said.

...and this is all Thaksins' fault?

 

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

The new owners of the Nation edited the interview where Chavalit warned the military of the consequences of prolonging their dominance and he will never support Prayut. The military is not united. 

Go figure.

[Eric Loh]

18 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

The only red rag I ever see is in Spanish sports T.V.

The Chinese CCTV likes lots of yellow in their prop.

[soistalker]

In 2009,  a gentleman standing outside of a Bangkok restaurant struck up a conversation with me in English as we were waiting outside the restaurant.  I asked him about Taksin.

With emotion in his voice and emphasis in his words he said:

"I love him. I LOVE him. I Love him."

Then he went on to tell me why.

I have never before or since seen anyone talk about a politician in such terms.

Sure this was one man's opinion; but the strength of his fondness for Taksin was impressive.

Besides, I saw Taksin wei to a farang on national TV that had weied to him as he passed by on the street. Can you name another Thai politician who would do the sane?

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, soistalker said:

Besides, I saw Taksin wei to a farang on national TV that had weied to him as he passed by on the street. Can you name another Thai politician who would do the sane?

I once saw Prayut kissed a frog. 

[The Deerhunter]

21 minutes ago, Krungbin said:

Thaksin "wants" to make the same come back Mahatir did. He has always been dreaming to become the Mahatir of Thailand...

I always thought he believed he was the Lee Kwan Yiew (spelling??) of Thailand.  He could have been and absolutely should have been but he got too greedy as soon as he was in the box seat.  (If not probably before but we never noticed.)  

[The Deerhunter]

5 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I once saw Prayut kissed a frog. 

I doubt that you did.  Watch out for section 44.   It's probably watching out for you personally, already.

[The Deerhunter]

18 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The Chinese CCTV likes lots of yellow in their prop.

Waaaay too subtle for me Eric.   Or was I too subtle for you?  (though I suspect NOT!)

[Yann55]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Thaksin is never coming back; that is the lesson from the events of 2013 (before Suthep's rent-a-mob took over).

 

Is that a fair outcome? THAT is the fascinating question (although moot). Is Thaksin much/any different from a hundred/eight hundred/three thousand other Hi-Sos or Military Officers? Is there any 'legitimacy' to his 'conviction'? If there is 'legitimacy' to his 'conviction', would it not be proper or just for hundreds/thousands of other Hi-Sos or Military Officers to be tried and sentenced as well?

 

Future historians, if they are permitted to write as they choose, are going to have a field day with this question.

 

That's a balanced and interesting point of view (as your posts often are), thank you, and it's refreshing when compared to most of the 'political' comments on this Forum which tend to take an absurdly binary stance (if you criticize T., you must be an ardent P. groupie, and vice versa).

 

Two observations come to mind  :

 

1/ T. is most certainly not much/any different from the 100/800/3000 so called 'elite' who think it their godly right to rule and use this country as if it was their private playground, with no respect whatsoever for the 'populace'. But, and that's a big fat but, he was PM, and in the past 20/30 years, even though the number of PMs in this country is rather mind-boggling, there were not 100/800/3000 of them. In that respect he definitely is different.

 

2/ As to the legitimacy of his conviction... I don't think many people now would deny the fact that he did abuse his position, made heaps of money with/through it, and used is wealth to manipulate the voters. So the argument (which you establish clearly) is really : why condemn him, while so many other wrongdoers who did (and do) similar things get away with it scot-free ?

 

Indeed a fascinating question.

 

Mr T. can (and does) scream urbi et orbi that the case against him is politically motivated, and he's right (albeit not in the least original, because that's the argument all politicians caught red-handed use, everywhere and all the time). Yes it's politically motivated but not fabricated, and definitely not unjustified...

 

His opponents claim that the case against him is based on solid facts, they say his abuse of power was unacceptable, and they're right too. But they're after T., and justice is not their primary concern (to put it mildy). So it's a typical case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

 

Do you remember the movie Rashōmon by Akira Kurosawa (1950)? A murder is being investigated, and all the witnesses are heard. Of course their stories don't match. Then the dead man is interrogated and his account is yet different from the others. One of the judges says 'well, at least now we know the truth', and another immediately replies : 'what makes you think it's the truth ? Dead people can lie too!' One of the deepest (and funniest) movie lines I ever heard !

 

 

[Faranginthai]

I think this is the first of many ‘soft’ pleas that will be made to allow Taksin to return leading up to the election as some offset to not interfere with Prayut’s plans or the election.   I have no doubt Taksin will return, and, will never do jail time.

[Happyman58]

Not a good idea him coming home. There would be lots of crowd trouble and bloodshed. Is it all really worth it in the end? Generally speaking, Thai people are peaceful people and I think they would  be slightly interested in dying for this guy Stay where you are mate and spend the millions you stole from Thailand

[NanLaew]

23 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I once saw Prayut kissed a frog. 

And I read that the frog is upset from being relentlessly unfriended on FB ever since.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, YetAnother said:

how many carts before how many horses does that 'logic' amount to ? he has to do good deeds from abroad before he is welcomed into the country ? setting aside for a moment the legalities and the many enemies he has made, only way seems to be he would throw money , lot of it , at the people; that is called a bribe, itself illegal;

on the whole, impractical;

only way would be a royal pardon

 

Indeed. It says a lot for the mentality and culture that the only suggestion is massive bribery. No thought of actually serving the prison sentence, facing up to doing a runner, and facing up to all the other outstanding serious charges, like the Krungthai Bank Fraud etc.

 

So today's lesson people. If you're gonna thieve, make sure and steal enough to pay massive bribes to the people and win over public support. Then you can avoid the legal consequences.

 

 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

As long as the illegitimate government, which seized power in the most recent of a long line of coups, remains in power, it will remain judge, jury and executioner for this land - hardly a situation in which Thaksin or his sister are likely to return. However, circumstances change, a new monarch ascends the throne, opinions shift, positions modify, time passes... 

[NanLaew]

51 minutes ago, Krungbin said:

Thaksin "wants" to make the same come back Mahatir did. He has always been dreaming to become the Mahatir of Thailand...

What? Wait another 24 years to make his return to power?

 

I reckon he'll be back within 10 years... and no jail time.

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, nongkhaidude said:

From my perspective  Thailand was a better place to live back then as opposed to now as he had Vision that was pro Thai people ( excluding the elite of course which is why he and his family is not here now ) instead of the current vison to make this place a colony of China 

 

What vision was that? His only vision was to make himself an authoritarian PM for life as his mate Hun Sen is doing. And pro the Shin clan above all and any. 

 

Just look at the way the rice scheme was implemented. The poor didn't benefit much. The millers, logistics, warehouse owners, rice exporters etc etc did, as long as they supported the Shins.

[mike324]

11 minutes ago, sandrew33 said:

Go and read the summary of the land transaction in the link I provided in my post. Your assertion is incorrect. 

 

The firm i worked with in Thailand at the time did quite a bit of the advice and liasion with the government agencies involved. 

 

It was all bogus. 

 

As to Thaksin as some sort of cautionary tale. <deleted> man. He's proof - as is his sister - that Thailand is controlled by a small group who won't ever cede power without a fight. Period. 

 

As a cautionary tale, it's done nothing to stop anyone on the other side of the divide from doing whatever the hell they want. Even to this day. 

 

Surely you can't be that naive? 

 

I have been following the case for years, Thaksin was nailed because he had to sign spousal consent signature on the standard Lands Dept transfer form, which authorize his wife to purchase the land. Its not about the land being sold under market value and those other charges which were thrown out. Its a simple fact that he sign those purchase papers which made it a conflict of interest and illegal. Thaksin should have known that, but since FIDF approved and clear his wife, it made it an legal transaction for his wife but not him. FIDF should not have allowed the sale to Thaksins wife, and they should have followed the law better. But like all things in Thailand, a little influence goes a long way in having anything approved.

 

So please let me know which part of this hard fact was made up?

 

The fact that Thaksin has a long list of corruption cases, why is anyone he still supporting him?  This guy is corrupt as hell, yea he had good intentions during his first term, but he got too greedy.

 

This is a very good read about corruption in Thailand:

http://www.thaitribune.org/images/sampledata/Corruption1.pdf

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

What? Wait another 24 years to make his return to power?

 

I reckon he'll be back within 10 years... and no jail time.

 

Unless something dramatic changes, he'll wait until the statute of limitations has expired on the outstanding serious cases awaiting him before he dares return. Others involved in the Krungthai bank fraud got 18 year sentences. He's scared of that now he failed to wangle an amnesty.

 

When they're all expired, he might risk it. Probably cite old age and ill health to avoid the 2 year sentence and apologies and wai for jumping bail. And hope all good to go at it again!

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

So today's lesson people. If you're gonna thieve, make sure and steal enough to pay massive bribes to the people and win over public support. Then you can avoid the legal consequences.

Let me add to your lesson. If you want to rob and steal, pay massive bribes and intimidate to try win support, be a general and better still be a general from the Burapha fraternity. That you can avoid all legal consequences and you can even shred the law and re-write your own. 

[Baerboxer]

29 minutes ago, Yann55 said:

 

That's a balanced and interesting point of view (as your posts often are), thank you, and it's refreshing when compared to most of the 'political' comments on this Forum which tend to take an absurdly binary stance (if you criticize T., you must be an ardent P. groupie, and vice versa).

 

Two observations come to mind  :

 

1/ T. is most certainly not much/any different from the 100/800/3000 so called 'elite' who think it their godly right to rule and use this country as if it was their private playground, with no respect whatsoever for the 'populace'. But, and that's a big fat but, he was PM, and in the past 20/30 years, even though the number of PMs in this country is rather mind-boggling, there were not 100/800/3000 of them. In that respect he definitely is different.

 

2/ As to the legitimacy of his conviction... I don't think many people now would deny the fact that he did abuse his position, made heaps of money with/through it, and used is wealth to manipulate the voters. So the argument (which you establish clearly) is really : why condemn him, while so many other wrongdoers who did (and do) similar things get away with it scot-free ?

 

Indeed a fascinating question.

 

Mr T. can (and does) scream urbi et orbi that the case against him is politically motivated, and he's right (albeit not in the least original, because that's the argument all politicians caught red-handed use, everywhere and all the time). Yes it's politically motivated but not fabricated, and definitely not unjustified...

 

His opponents claim that the case against him is based on solid facts, they say his abuse of power was unacceptable, and they're right too. But they're after T., and justice is not their primary concern (to put it mildy). So it's a typical case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

 

Do you remember the movie Rashōmon by Akira Kurosawa (1950)? A murder is being investigated, and all the witnesses are heard. Of course their stories don't match. Then the dead man is interrogated and his account is yet different from the others. One of the judges says 'well, at least now we know the truth', and another immediately replies : 'what makes you think it's the truth ? Dead people can lie too!' One of the deepest (and funniest) movie lines I ever heard !

 

 

 

An excellent and balanced commentary.