Trump cancels summit with North Korea's Kim, warns that military ready

[lannarebirth]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Funny, but Kim's coup here is even without the meeting having "trump" put him on the same level as the USA (witness the bizarre coin from the white house) and he now gets to promote the idea that his regime is the more reasonable one. 

 

Numismatists love odd coins. Particularly if it is wrong somehow. 

[Srikcir]

15 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

These people talk about "diplomacy" as if diplomacy had actually ever worked in the past. Diplomacy gave Kim nuclear weapons. 

Both Israel and Pakistan developed nuclear weapons without any diplomatic engagement.

Furthermore, Pakistan took about 12 years (circa 1972-1984) to develop a nuclear weapon. North Korea which has been under intensive diplomatic efforts has taken more than 20 years (circa 1985-2006).

Diplomacy has substantially slowed North Korea's efforts for nuclear weapons and currently appears to have stalled North Korea's further development and manufacture. Diplomacy did the same with the Iranian nuclear weapon program.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that the lack of direct invasion and regime change by US allies gave North Korea nuclear weapons. But in reality it's through North Korea's own determination that it earned its nuclear weapons, just as did Pakistan and Israel.

[billd766]

15 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

This is both a good and a bad thing.

 

This is a good thing as it has become clear, or perhaps more clear, that the summit meeting was not going to produce desired results, and when a summit of leaders does not produce the desired results, there is no where else to go. Better that it be cancelled rather than have a failure.

 

This is a bad thing as dealing with N Korea is such an impossibility that I was coming around (and still am) to the idea that perhaps Trump could deal with Kim Von Fat Boy. At this time twenty years ago, I was sitting in a classroom doing my Masters degree and we were discussing how one could deal with N Korea. Conventional means simply don't work; as much as I have a low opinion of Trump, I was and am willing to give him a shot. Unless someone has a better idea...?

 

I think this also demonstrates the danger of electing an American President who essentially does not have any experience. Yes, some people believe that Trump's business dealings and skills are transferable to the Presidency/Politics, but I do not. And, I do not see any evidence to support a claim that they do.

 

I would hope that the S Koreans and the Americans continue their efforts. There HAS been some progress made, and if the professionals are allowed to do their thing for a while, perhaps there can be enough progress to merit a summit in the future.

 

The alternative is to leave a loser maniac with nukes all by himself to stew....

 

 

I agree with you especially the last paragraph. However what will KJU do to pass the time while he is waiting for Trump to change his mind once again.

Edited May 25, 2018 by billd766

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

I think there is no more to add and you have summed the situation up perfectly and with clarity, that is how  I see it as well.

 

Thanks.

 

We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are.  -- Anais Nin

[billd766]

13 hours ago, car720 said:

What becomes obvious in all of this, and to everyone in the world, is that America cannot be trusted.

 

 I have to disagree with you there.

 

The USA can be trusted but the current POTUS and all his hangers on CANNOT be trusted.

[Dumbastheycome]

The   Military  are  ready! Been   waiting  for  the  1 2 3  go?

Which   Military? 

Arrogant  <deleted>!

[lannarebirth]

13 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Both Israel and Pakistan developed nuclear weapons without any diplomatic engagement.

Furthermore, Pakistan took about 12 years (circa 1972-1984) to develop a nuclear weapon. North Korea which has been under intensive diplomatic efforts has taken more than 20 years (circa 1985-2006).

Diplomacy has substantially slowed North Korea's efforts for nuclear weapons and currently appears to have stalled North Korea's further development and manufacture. Diplomacy did the same with the Iranian nuclear weapon program.

Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say that the lack of direct invasion and regime change by US allies gave North Korea nuclear weapons. But in reality it's through North Korea's own determination that it earned its nuclear weapons, just as did Pakistan and Israel.

 

Again, the topic is North Korea. Past diplomatic efforts by the US there gave them the ability to become the belligerant nuclear power they are today.

 

I don't know, maybe its because civil servants know whatever happens they still get their pension. Maybe its because, unlike in the past, failure is celebrated today.  

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Just how do you see a compromise? We're going to normalize relations with this criminal against humanity? A compromise is we protect him from the retribution of his citizenry and he gets to choose where he spends his life in exile on our dime.

Wow!  A negotiating stance even more bizarre than John Bolton's. You should apply for his job.

[Psimbo]

So now its possible that the Summit may be back on- the Orange Muppet doesn't know if he is coming or going. Asked on Friday if North Korea was playing games ahead of the summit, Trump responded, “Everyone plays games.”

 

Talk about a dick measuring competition- ' “You talk about your nuclear capabilities, but ours are so massive and powerful that I pray to God they will never have to be used,” Trump wrote."

 

What a Rooster.

[bristolboy]

6 hours ago, AsiaHand said:

You will see no easing of any of the sanctions except for Iran,China.Syria and a few others that are already supplying him.The other nations do not want any sanctions on themselves from The US.Little "Rocket Man" had no intention of giving up hie 20-30 atomic warheads,the test site being eliminated was a no brainier as it was no longer useful,so Kim has nothing to trade .Why meet him for nothing?  .Now tell us something to clarify your statement or are you just chiming in ?

Uninformed nonsense. Unless Iran withdraws from the agreement, there is no chance that the EU nations will reimpose sanctions. They will do what they can to avoid US sanctions but there is plenty that they can still do to promote trade. For one thing, the SWIFT system which is how money transfer is done internationally is based in Belgium. And unlike last time, access to it by Iran won't be denied. That was a huge obstacle to Iran selling oil.  Before when the sanctions were in place, the subscribing EU nations were very rigorously and proactively enforcing it. Not gonna happen now.

[sirineou]

9 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Thanks. However, we've got to accept, that it is the US government that is causing the problem. It's Washington that's the problem. The people of America, the Americans themselves, they're okay people. Washington has convinced the people of America to support the government. It's being done by manipulating the media, and creating a false and non-accurate picture.

No argument there

5 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I disagree with most of America's foreign policy, especially with respect to the Middle East. That said, the topic is North Korea,  who has threatened the US and its North Pacific allies with nuclear tipped ballistic missles. The US or those allies do not need the world's help, permission or acceptance for whatever it feels it must do to neutralize that growing threat. 

Do you think NK is a threat to the US or is the US a threat to NK?

 

[Credo]

37 minutes ago, sirineou said:

No argument there

Do you think NK is a threat to the US or is the US a threat to NK?

 

NK is only a real threat to SK.   They will not attack Japan or the US (or anyone else for that matter) unless they are massively provoked into it.

 

As long as they have reasonably good relations with SK, then they are not much of a threat to anyone.   The short term goal should be to keep the peace.   The issue of nuclear weapons and capabilities is further down the road.   

 

[lannarebirth]

49 minutes ago, sirineou said:

No argument there

Do you think NK is a threat to the US or is the US a threat to NK?

 

 

Historically (since the Korean War), North Korea has only been a threat to those poor souls unfortunate to have been born there. The US in the past has only sought to contain NK's belligerance towards it's neighbors. Now NK is ramping up that belligerance to include the US. NK should now perceive the US as a threat to its existence under its current regime. I hope they do.

[lannarebirth]

15 minutes ago, Credo said:

NK is only a real threat to SK.   They will not attack Japan or the US (or anyone else for that matter) unless they are massively provoked into it.

 

As long as they have reasonably good relations with SK, then they are not much of a threat to anyone.   The short term goal should be to keep the peace.   The issue of nuclear weapons and capabilities is further down the road.   

 

 

What did Japan do specifically to goad North Korea into firing a ballistic missile over its mainland?

[sirineou]

25 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Historically (since the Korean War), North Korea has only been a threat to those poor souls unfortunate to have been born there. The US in the past has only sought to contain NK's belligerance towards it's neighbors. Now NK is ramping up that belligerance to include the US. NK should now perceive the US as a threat to its existence under its current regime. I hope they do.

why do you think NK is so "belligerent" toward the US?

[stevenl]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

 I have to disagree with you there.

 

The USA can be trusted but the current POTUS and all his hangers on CANNOT be trusted.

Which unfortunately means deals made with the USA can not be trusted.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, lannarebirth said:

 

What did Japan do specifically to goad North Korea into firing a ballistic missile over its mainland?

Nothing, but it is a historical enemy of NK an ally of the US and so probably a good place to exercise a little power.   Neither China nor SK are going to be too upset if Japan gets taken down a notch or two.

 

[Srikcir]

After canceling North Korea summit, Trump says it "could even be the 12th"

Trump's diplomacy is like the Wheel of Fortune. You never know where it's going to land.

 

[stevenl]

Diplomacy works best if done quietly, behind the scenes. Therefore the only way for it to work is by keeping the president out of the loop.

[lannarebirth]

42 minutes ago, Credo said:

Nothing, but it is a historical enemy of NK an ally of the US and so probably a good place to exercise a little power.   Neither China nor SK are going to be too upset if Japan gets taken down a notch or two.

 

 

Ok, so they're "exercising a little power" with a country we happen to have a defense agreement with and doesn't have its own defense forces. So, IYO, what should happen when a country fires a ballistic missile at a country you've sworn to protect? If you say "nothing" then you're with those that say an agreement with the US means nothing. If you say "something" than your with those that say the US instigated NK's action towards a peaceful neighbor. Or you could be in the sane group, but they're hard to find here.

[lannarebirth]

25 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Diplomacy works best if done quietly, behind the scenes. Therefore the only way for it to work is by keeping the president out of the loop.

Maybe the president is out of the loop and you're all watching the sideshow. No one knows at this time, so we just have to wait and see.

[Credo]

8 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Ok, so they're "exercising a little power" with a country we happen to have a defense agreement with and doesn't have its own defense forces. So, IYO, what should happen when a country fires a ballistic missile at a country you've sworn to protect? If you say "nothing" then you're with those that say an agreement with the US means nothing. If you say "something" than your with those that say the US instigated NK's action towards a peaceful neighbor. Or you could be in the sane group, but they're hard to find here.

What should have been done is to consult and take guidance from the country in danger, Japan.   

 

Kim is now a nuclear power.   His testing is done and anything else is fine tuning that doesn't require further testing.   

 

If Trump,  or anyone else, didn't want that, the time to stop it was a while back.   

 

[lannarebirth]

11 minutes ago, Credo said:

What should have been done is to consult and take guidance from the country in danger, Japan.   

 

 

I think that's been done hasn't it? At least they played golf about something. I'm sure that would have come up.

[simple1]

37 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Ok, so they're "exercising a little power" with a country we happen to have a defense agreement with and doesn't have its own defense forces. So, IYO, what should happen when a country fires a ballistic missile at a country you've sworn to protect? If you say "nothing" then you're with those that say an agreement with the US means nothing. If you say "something" than your with those that say the US instigated NK's action towards a peaceful neighbor. Or you could be in the sane group, but they're hard to find here.

Just to note. Japan does have a Defence Force, with anti ballistic missile capability having the 10th largest budget worldwide.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces

 

 

[lannarebirth]

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Just to note. Japan does have a Defence Force, with anti ballistic missile capability having the 10th largest budget worldwide.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces

 

 

 

Right, I knew that, sorry. I meant they are not capable of prosecuting an offensive against an aggressor nation. And of course having a strictly defensive force is not necessarily a deterrant to aggression. It's a bit like wearing a bulletproof vest while someone continues to shoot at you. Hopefully it does its job but maybe it doesn't.

[stevenl]

47 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

Maybe the president is out of the loop and you're all watching the sideshow. No one knows at this time, so we just have to wait and see.

Could be. In that case that is all he should say 'the diplomats are hard at work, we'll inform you as soon as possible', in stead of providing mis- and non-infornation.

[spidermike007]

Now, the nitwit in chief says the summit might be back on. Kim flattered him again, and that is all it takes, to get this 13 year old to respond favorably. Wow. Talk about instability. Talk about a loose cannon. Tune into the next episode of the Tiny D. show. 

[mfd101]

DT's problem is that he simply doesn't understand the concept on which international relations short of war is conducted, namely: Negotiation ⇒ Win/Win.

 

He thinks that all meetings or discussions lead or should lead to: I win/You lose (because I have the biggest thingamee in the neighbourhood). You might think he would have learned from the outcome of the TransPacific Trade deal: Usofa announces they won't join the other 11 or 12 nations unless they rewrite the draft in Usofa's interest. Grinning triumphantly: So there, I don't like these multi things anyway. But the others, lead by Japan & Oz, decide to go ahead anyway, leaving Usofa in the cold & the Chinese laughing. So DT says: Um, acherly, ah how's about um praps we might um join up after all, but you'll have to change the rules in our favour! To which the dozen or so reply (ever so politely): Get lost!

 

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

I think that's been done hasn't it? At least they played golf about something. I'm sure that would have come up.

Given reports about other people's attempts to educate Trump on issues, it's dubious that Trump finished the game at all enlightened.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Ok, so they're "exercising a little power" with a country we happen to have a defense agreement with and doesn't have its own defense forces. So, IYO, what should happen when a country fires a ballistic missile at a country you've sworn to protect? If you say "nothing" then you're with those that say an agreement with the US means nothing. If you say "something" than your with those that say the US instigated NK's action towards a peaceful neighbor. Or you could be in the sane group, but they're hard to find here.

Does the "sane group" count John Bolton as a member? And exactly what range of options does the "sane group" think would be advisable?

Edited May 26, 2018 by bristolboy