UK threatens to demand money from EU in Brexit feud over European GPS

[Enoon]

5 hours ago, JAG said:

 We spent our blood and treasure to free much of Europe from an evil tyranny within living memory, .

 

Don't kid yourself, Britain fought to destroy what it considered was a threat to itself and the Empire.........just as it did when fighting Napoleon.

 

The irony is that, as a result of fighting the war, it became impossible to maintain the Empire.

 

And it's not coming back ("commercial" or otherwise).......they never do.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Enoon

[dunroaming]

57 minutes ago, JAG said:

Whilst I tend to agree that this governments performance in both setting out their position and the subsequent negotiations has been less than stellar, I am not sure that will make the slightest difference. It is becoming increasingly obvious that the Brussels administration is determined to do the utmost damage to the UK both economically and possibly politically. I don't think this is a position necessarily shared by all EU governments, but they also seem to be irrelevant. Any eventual settlement will be on terms dictated by them (Brussels), which seem to be effectively non-negotiable. Were we to change our mind, as many suggest we should, I suspect that the terms under which such a change would be accepted will be as damaging. Pragmatically, I think that we should accept what now is beginning to look as inevitable, and be prepared to walk away. The central plank of the argument to leave was to regain our national sovereignty. I always suspected that was going to be expensive, and I think it will be. I also happen think that we should be prepared to pay that price.

A balanced post.  Although I think it is worth re-iterating what the EU said about the UK changing their mind.  "If Brexit were scrapped then there is nothing to negotiate because everything remains the same.  Britain would remain in and obviously everything would continue as it is today."

 

Of course what that means is that everything that Cameron agreed has been binned and we then have to start again with trying to get the changes we were seeking in the first place.  literally back to square one.

 

But we are all spectators here and what we think or say will have no bearing on the outcome of Brexit.  The leavers voted for the government to negotiate a leaving package and that is what they are trying to do.  True they are rubbish at it but no surprise there.  The challenge is to achieve a Brexit that will be the least damaging for the UK.  If they felt that walking away was a viable option then they would have done that already.

 

The moment you have a referendum and vote one way or the other you then lose control.  You have to stand back and accept whatever deal the government come up with.  So we can all shout about what they are doing and what the EU are saying but that means sod all.  The only option would be to insist on a second vote and that is something the Brexiteers are adamantly against.  OK, I am not getting into that argument again.

 

The referendum should never have happened but it did.

 

[VocalNeal]

 

19 minutes ago, Enoon said:

 

Don't kid yourself, Britain fought to destroy what it considered was a threat to itself and the Empire.........just as it did when fighting Napoleon.

 

The irony is that, as a result of fighting the war, it became impossible to maintain the Empire.

 

And it's not coming back ("commercial" or otherwise).......they never do.

 

 

 

Hmm. What made it impossible to maintain were the Naval arms limitation pacts of the 1920's and 1930's. Not enough naval power to defend all parts. Unlike the previous 100-odd years after the Napoleonic wars. But... 

[citybiker]

A balanced post.  Although I think it is worth re-iterating what the EU said about the UK changing their mind.  "If Brexit were scrapped then there is nothing to negotiate because everything remains the same.  Britain would remain in and obviously everything would continue as it is today."
 
Of course what that means is that everything that Cameron agreed has been binned and we then have to start again with trying to get the changes we were seeking in the first place.  literally back to square one.
 
But we are all spectators here and what we think or say will have no bearing on the outcome of Brexit.  The leavers voted for the government to negotiate a leaving package and that is what they are trying to do.  True they are rubbish at it but no surprise there.  The challenge is to achieve a Brexit that will be the least damaging for the UK.  If they felt that walking away was a viable option then they would have done that already.
 
The moment you have a referendum and vote one way or the other you then lose control.  You have to stand back and accept whatever deal the government come up with.  So we can all shout about what they are doing and what the EU are saying but that means sod all.  The only option would be to insist on a second vote and that is something the Brexiteers are adamantly against.  OK, I am not getting into that argument again.
 
The referendum should never have happened but it did.
 

I fully concur reference simply being bystanders however I unable to criticise HMG as I like many I not privy to "all" the facts.

Also, walking away 'before' all options, consultations et al are considered exploited would also parliament not doing their job,they have to be seen tangibly to prove everything was proposed, submitted, tried and simply ignored & rejected, that's not negotiations that's pure ignorance, they are also accountable for all actions by the electorate.

Lastly, IMO the referendum was right thing for the UK, I respects others will disagree however post Brexit vote proves how incompetent Brussels are, just ask the V4 & most recently Italy too.

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[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, sungod said:

Couldn't agree more, ironic though you have summed very well up the attitude of those whom lost in a perfectly democratic referendum.

 All sides should be working together for a successful exit, those who continue to sabotage and sow seeds of doom and gloom are playing into Brussel's hands. Should be ashamed.

Hogwash.

 

The UK is a democracy, democracy is a continuing process and did not end with the referendum.

 

 

 

[sungod]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Hogwash.

 

The UK is a democracy, democracy is a continuing process and did not end with the referendum.

 

 

 

I liked some of your comments earlier, even sitting on the other side of the fence I had to respect them as some made sense. 

However you now seem to be showing your trues colors which are anything but democratic, just another referendum sore loser.

[dunroaming]

59 minutes ago, citybiker said:

I fully concur reference simply being bystanders however I unable to criticise HMG as I like many I not privy to "all" the facts.

Also, walking away 'before' all options, consultations et al are considered exploited would also parliament not doing their job,they have to be seen tangibly to prove everything was proposed, submitted, tried and simply ignored & rejected, that's not negotiations that's pure ignorance, they are also accountable for all actions by the electorate.

Lastly, IMO the referendum was right thing for the UK, I respects others will disagree however post Brexit vote proves how incompetent Brussels are, just ask the V4 & most recently Italy too.

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I take your point about HMG although I am more cynical than you.

 

I also understand your position over the Referendum, many feel the same as you.  We can only put forward our own point of view.  One thing we do know in this circus of the unknown is that eventually there will be a conclusion.  10 months to go and surely there must be something on the table soon.  The EU are holding fast on their position and the UK are still struggling and adding concessions.   Or at least that is what it appears from the government statements.  Maybe May and Davis are playing their cards close to their chests.  Davis said yesterday that he thought they were close to a deal so let's see how that pans out.  We can only stand and wait.....and wait.....and wait......

 

[citybiker]

I take your point about HMG although I am more cynical than you.
 
I also understand your position over the Referendum, many feel the same as you.  We can only put forward our own point of view.  One thing we do know in this circus of the unknown is that eventually there will be a conclusion.  10 months to go and surely there must be something on the table soon.  The EU are holding fast on their position and the UK are still struggling and adding concessions.   Or at least that is what it appears from the government statements.  Maybe May and Davis are playing their cards close to their chests.  Davis said yesterday that he thought they were close to a deal so let's see how that pans out.  We can only stand and wait.....and wait.....and wait......
 

I'm not sure holding fast is what everyone outside Brussels is tangibly seeing, what is noticeable is warnings, threats and poor negotiations for Brussels. HMG starting from scratch obviously not helpful however getting this right once is vital.

PMTM is known as the submarine for her home office days and this time she's unable to duck and hide for cover, it's time the UK politicians work for the electorate, be fully accountable and not allowing EU to over-rule.

Putting it bluntly, Brussels is fully aware and livid its losing authourity over Westminster, wants UK to ignore all the red lines, and carry on as boss.

I fully agree Brussels wants to make Brexit as painful as possible, primarily to deter others.

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[Dumbastheycome]

14 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

This was all going to be a walk in the park.

But  it  is  !  Just  that  nobody explained   how  many  times  around it  would  be !

[the guest]

14 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ll grant you the US are salivating over the prospect of asset stripping an isolated and exposed UK.

 

 

Is there anything left to sell that is British these days ?

[citybiker]

Is there anything left to sell that is British these days ?

Various, your have to narrow the focus of the question.

Plenty of premium UK based Brands.

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[The Renegade]

22 hours ago, JAG said:

I have to say, I'm rather coming round to that conclusion. It does seem that whatever negotiations are attempted, the (anonymous) officials who seem to speak for the EU are determined to punish the UK.

Why has it taken you so long to come around to that conclusion ?

 

It should be blatantly obvious to anyone who is not a deaf, dumb and blind kid that the EU has no intention of negotiating.

 

The EU remit is to keep the UK, by means foul or fair to keep the UK shackled to Brussels, the ECJ and to keep handing over vast amounts of UK ££££££££££'s.

Edited May 26, 2018 by The Renegade

[Guest]

Well, now we know what happened to those millions EU countries pushed to EU. Those were blown up to the sky. Also leading our ways forward, in case USA's GPS system someday becomes unavailable.

 

 

[citybiker]

The GPS situation is an interesting issue, the EU under its policies want to treat the UK as a 3rd country. Yet, they also need UK specialist, suppliers and equally important access to some (UK overseas) ground stations.

Hammond (in the Times) has stated if the EU exclude UK from Galileo then negotiations will reopen on some vital aspects, also several EU countries are not happy at Brussels attitude and negotiating approach.

Lastly, even though it'll take £2-5Bn the UK is quite capable of issuing a rival to Galileo, just because Brussels wants everything it's own way.

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[The Renegade]

7 hours ago, The Renegade said:

The EU remit is to keep the UK, by means foul or fair to keep the UK shackled to Brussels, the ECJ and to keep handing over vast amounts of UK ££££££££££'s.

Right on cue, up pops Barmy Barnier to back it up.

 

Quote

EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier warned Britain on Saturday that failing to agree a deal on the governance of a withdrawal treaty which preserves the primacy of the EU court would mean no treaty and no transition period.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-barnier/eus-barnier-urges-uk-to-accept-eu-court-deal-for-brexit-idUSKCN1IR08H?il=0

 

Time to tell Barnier to F.O. and that WTO rules will apply from the 29 March 2019. No extension, no further negotiations necessary. 

[StevieAus]

On 5/25/2018 at 8:35 AM, geriatrickid said:

Slimey scum in Brussels trying to shake down the UK.

Again the Belgians and Germans are implicated, along with some of the other banana quality insignificant Euro city states.  Credit to France, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands, and the Baltic states for not agreeing with the bullies and for supporting the UK. 

Germany is taking a gamble that the UK is going to be isolated. It won't be. Canada and the USA are salivating at the prospect of some trade and financial deals that exclude the EU participation and its meddlesome  rules and regulations. Some Europeans are smart enough to see what is going to happen. 
 

So I understand is Australia,  prior to the EU and it’s predecessor there was a huge export of meat,fruit etc which I’m advised even with transport costs was cheaper than EU prices.

[dick dasterdly]

On 5/26/2018 at 4:55 PM, The Renegade said:

Right on cue, up pops Barmy Barnier to back it up.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-barnier/eus-barnier-urges-uk-to-accept-eu-court-deal-for-brexit-idUSKCN1IR08H?il=0

 

Time to tell Barnier to F.O. and that WTO rules will apply from the 29 March 2019. No extension, no further negotiations necessary. 

I've no doubt that the eu would start genuinely negotiating if the uk declared it was going to leave on 29 March '19 - except the uk govt. has made no attempt to prepare for such an eventuality....

 

Edit - suprise, suprise....☹️.

Edited May 30, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Chomper Higgot]

35 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

So I understand is Australia,  prior to the EU and it’s predecessor there was a huge export of meat,fruit etc which I’m advised even with transport costs was cheaper than EU prices.

Prior to the UK joining the 'Common Market', later the EU, shops in the UK resembled something from the old eastern bloc.

 

The UK's membership of the Common Market/EU created an explosion of choice for UK shoppers. 

 

Though I admit there may still be a niche market for frozen meats and over salted butter. 

[StevieAus]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Prior to the UK joining the 'Common Market', later the EU, shops in the UK resembled something from the old eastern bloc.

 

The UK's membership of the Common Market/EU created an explosion of choice for UK shoppers. 

 

Though I admit there may still be a niche market for frozen meats and over salted butter. 

And the prices.

 I recall reading newspaper articles at the time about the then UK government advising its citizens to change its eating habits to eating more pork and chicken, but each to their own.

 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Prior to the UK joining the 'Common Market', later the EU, shops in the UK resembled something from the old eastern bloc.

 

The UK's membership of the Common Market/EU created an explosion of choice for UK shoppers. 

 

Though I admit there may still be a niche market for frozen meats and over salted butter. 

Not only that. EU also enables the mainland EU countries to shop from UK's web shops.  Electronics were a lot cheaper there than in some other countries. 

 

Now, when Brexit is coming, these shoppers are slowly moving to use German web shops - still inside EU's common markets, which have now added English to their sites to be able to serve international customers.

 

 

[The Renegade]

46 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Prior to the UK joining the 'Common Market', later the EU, shops in the UK resembled something from the old eastern bloc.

And that statement confirms that you have no idea what the Old Eastern bloc looks like and have never been in the UK before it joined the Common Market.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

And that statement confirms that you have no idea what the Old Eastern bloc looks like and have never been in the UK before it joined the Common Market.

Ah the good old days, tinned spaghetti, garlic poweder, white pepper, bowls of lumpy sugar on the counter, thin white bread, margarine, fish paste and the stink of (over) boiled cabbage.

 

 

[malagateddy]

Ah the good old days, tinned spaghetti, garlic poweder, white pepper, bowls of lumpy sugar on the counter, thin white bread, margarine, fish paste and the stink of (over) boiled cabbage.
 
 

Obviously more mince from you..matter of interest..were you born in the 50's..60's..or perhaps in the 70's..or are still a relative youngster, if you don't mind me askind?
Cheers

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[Chomper Higgot]

33 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Obviously more mince from you..matter of interest..were you born in the 50's..60's..or perhaps in the 70's..or are still a relative youngster, if you don't mind me askind?
Cheers

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What's this a dating site already?

[observer90210]

The lovely European Union....the new Bruxelles mafia bully,  fight club !

Edited May 30, 2018 by observer90210

[malagateddy]

What's this a dating site already?

Just looking for a reason as to why you mentioned a load of "mince" pre the UK joining the fraudulent corrupt eu.
As a young 67 year old..let me tell you that the UK food was excellent since 1950

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[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Just looking for a reason as to why you mentioned a load of "mince" pre the UK joining the fraudulent corrupt eu.
As a young 67 year old..let me tell you that the UK food was excellent since 1950

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You must be wearing your wife's glasses, I never mentioned 'mince'. 

 

As for British food being 'excellent', some of it is but its nowhere considered one of the world's great cuisines.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[malagateddy]

I'm quite sure that when the UK is rid of the failing brussels jobsworths dream..the UK public will still be able to enjoy lovely nutricious food
Quite sure they will be able to do without the overpriced imported eu grub[emoji6]



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[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

I'm quite sure that when the UK is rid of the failing brussels jobsworths dream..the UK public will still be able to enjoy lovely nutricious food
Quite sure they will be able to do without the overpriced imported eu grub



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Again, I don't think you really understand what's going on. Do you want to drive down health and husbandry standards? Far better to have free trade AND high standards across the EU.

[malagateddy]

Again, I don't think you really understand what's going on. Do you want to drive down health and husbandry standards? Far better to have free trade AND high standards across the EU.

I am quite sure that the UK Govt will have matters in hand

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