Moving to Thailand, working online - what do I do?

[Boy Wonder]

I'm a Software Engineer in the USA, working full-time. I want to move to Thailand for 6+ months. My plan is to continue working my job remotely.

 

What are the steps I should take here? Should I just go to Thai embassy and apply for 60 day visa and just keep renewing as long as I want to stay? Do I need a work permit to do my online remote work?

 

Any help appreciated. Thanks!

[donnacha]

Just keep your head down and do your work, like tens of thousands of others doing exactly the same thing. There is no permit for doing remote work in Thailand. There should be but the authorities don't understand the concept.

Your reason for entering the country is "tourism", your occupation is "businessman". In the highly unlikely event that any Thai official asks you what sort of business, just say property or something else firmly rooted in your home country.

No-one will bat an eyelid at you working in your apartment, coffee shops or even coworking spaces. As long as you don't walk around telling everyone what you are doing, no-one will care as long as you are not taking a job from a Thai. You will just be another whacky farang with a Macbook.

If you intend to actually work, minimize disruption by getting a tourist visa before you arrive, that will give you 59 days, and you can extend it for another 30, meaning you can spend a total of three months getting to grips with Thailand. You can then fly over to Saigon for a few days, get another tourist visa from the consulate there and return to Thailand for another three months. You will undoubtedly find it easier to get work done if, rather than traveling around constantly, you can get a stable base set up for yourself.

If, on the other hand, frequent trips to neighboring countries is part of your plan, don't bother with the visa, just get the 29 days on arrival that the visa waiver provides and keep jumping in and out of Thailand, getting a fresh 29 days on entry each time. Flights within South East Asia are cheap, you can be in another interesting country within a couple of hours.

Do not tell non-digital nomads that you are working, regardless of whether they are Thai or foreign, regardless of how friendly they seem to be. Certain expats have a huge bee in their bonnets about digital nomads because they don't, themselves, have the necessary skills or education to be able to work online and have to scrape by on teaching English or other low-paid work. Never underestimate the sheer vindictiveness of guys who are stuck in life, you might even come across some of them on this forum.

If you need to be in work mode, it can be helpful to be around others living the same lifestyle. Personally, I find Chiang Mai to be a good mix of high quality of life, an authentic Thai friendliness and decency (the difference when you fly into Bangkok is palpable) and a huge community of digital nomads, with plenty of interesting meetups and talks, but there is no beach.

If you are more into partying, Pattaya or one of the islands would be more your thing, but you might be surprised at how much of your attention all that stuff mops up. Some people like the big city buzz of Bangkok but I really don't understand why someone would live there unless they absolutely had to.

Again, regardless of any conflicting advice you might receive here, just come in as a tourist and stay below the radar. There is no need to overthink things, Thailand is an easy place to visit and live, you are going to have a terrific time.

[glegolo]

Good advise fom the above. Only thing to add is that, IF using the Tourist VISA excempt flying in and out of Thailand, just do that,, but use the airport no landborders...

 

This Tourist VISA excempt can also be extended for another 30 days, so you have 60 days for each trip out of Thailand...

 

glegolo

[BritTim]

Working in Thailand as a digital nomad without a work permit is not strictly legal, but is tolerated by the authorities. As a practical matter, there is no way to get a work permit. As long as your employer is not Thai, and you do not have Thai clients, the authorities will leave you alone even if they become aware of it. For a six month stay, just use tourist visas.

[phuketrichard]

keep ur mouth shut, dont post on forums ur working as a digital nomad..

[Boy Wonder]

3 hours ago, donnacha said:

Just keep your head down and do your work, like tens of thousands of others doing exactly the same thing. There is no permit for doing remote work in Thailand. There should be but the authorities don't understand the concept.

Your reason for entering the country is "tourism", your occupation is "businessman". In the highly unlikely event that any Thai official asks you what sort of business, just say property or something else firmly rooted in your home country.

No-one will bat an eyelid at you working in your apartment, coffee shops or even coworking spaces. As long as you don't walk around telling everyone what you are doing, no-one will care as long as you are not taking a job from a Thai. You will just be another whacky farang with a Macbook.

If you intend to actually work, minimize disruption by getting a tourist visa before you arrive, that will give you 59 days, and you can extend it for another 30, meaning you can spend a total of three months getting to grips with Thailand. You can then fly over to Saigon for a few days, get another tourist visa from the consulate there and return to Thailand for another three months. You will undoubtedly find it easier to get work done if, rather than traveling around constantly, you can get a stable base set up for yourself.

If, on the other hand, frequent trips to neighboring countries is part of your plan, don't bother with the visa, just get the 29 days on arrival that the visa waiver provides and keep jumping in and out of Thailand, getting a fresh 29 days on entry each time. Flights within South East Asia are cheap, you can be in another interesting country within a couple of hours.

Do not tell non-digital nomads that you are working, regardless of whether they are Thai or foreign, regardless of how friendly they seem to be. Certain expats have a huge bee in their bonnets about digital nomads because they don't, themselves, have the necessary skills or education to be able to work online and have to scrape by on teaching English or other low-paid work. Never underestimate the sheer vindictiveness of guys who are stuck in life, you might even come across some of them on this forum.

If you need to be in work mode, it can be helpful to be around others living the same lifestyle. Personally, I find Chiang Mai to be a good mix of high quality of life, an authentic Thai friendliness and decency (the difference when you fly into Bangkok is palpable) and a huge community of digital nomads, with plenty of interesting meetups and talks, but there is no beach.

If you are more into partying, Pattaya or one of the islands would be more your thing, but you might be surprised at how much of your attention all that stuff mops up. Some people like the big city buzz of Bangkok but I really don't understand why someone would live there unless they absolutely had to.

Again, regardless of any conflicting advice you might receive here, just come in as a tourist and stay below the radar. There is no need to overthink things, Thailand is an easy place to visit and live, you are going to have a terrific time.

Thank you VERY much. This is exactly the sort of information I was looking for. I was completely unaware that working remote was unorthodox, and I tend to overshare at times... definitely avoided some potential issues by reading this. I will go in with a tourist visa and renew it every 3 months (I can't be bothered flying every month to renew the monthly visa upon arrival), and I'll be sure to keep my head down about how I make my money.

 

Again, thanks a bunch.

[AGareth2]

7 hours ago, Boy Wonder said:

What are the steps I should take here

make sure you have a good internet connection

[impulse]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

Working in Thailand as a digital nomad without a work permit is not strictly legal, but is tolerated by the authorities. As a practical matter, there is no way to get a work permit. As long as your employer is not Thai, and you do not have Thai clients, the authorities will leave you alone even if they become aware of it. For a six month stay, just use tourist visas.

 

I'd be careful differentiating between "tolerated by the authorities" and "the authorities don't have the tools (or the marching orders) today to crack down". 

 

It may seem like nit picking, but it's a lot like a few years back when people lived in Thailand for decades on monthly visa runs.  Had they known that a switch could flip one day and throw their lives into turmoil, they may have done things differently.  They may have either expended the time, money and effort to get legal right out of the blocks, or not invested as much as they did in their Thai life, including, in many cases, starting families they were forced to leave behind. 

 

I know a lot of guys who wish they had invested in getting legal rather than buying that new car, the condo, or the house for their GF.  By the time things changed, they no longer had the wherewithal.

 

 

[BritTim]

10 minutes ago, impulse said:

I'd be careful differentiating between "tolerated by the authorities" and "the authorities don't have the tools (or the marching orders) today to crack down". 

I understand your point, but there is plenty of evidence that the authorities really do have a policy of tolerating digital nomads.

 

There was a single case a few years ago where a co-working space in Chiang Mai was raided. As I recall, about a dozen digital nomads were present. No one was charged, and it is now widely recognized that the raid was a mistake. There have been no subsequent raids at any of the hundreds of co-working spaces all around Thailand catering to digital nomads. If the authorities wanted to crack down, it would be simple.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

I'd be careful differentiating between "tolerated by the authorities" and "the authorities don't have the tools (or the marching orders) today to crack down". 

 

It may seem like nit picking, but it's a lot like a few years back when people lived in Thailand for decades on monthly visa runs.  Had they known that a switch could flip one day and throw their lives into turmoil, they may have done things differently.  They may have either expended the time, money and effort to get legal right out of the blocks, or not invested as much as they did in their Thai life, including, in many cases, starting families they were forced to leave behind. 

 

I know a lot of guys who wish they had invested in getting legal rather than buying that new car, the condo, or the house for their GF.  By the time things changed, they no longer had the wherewithal.

 

 

 

To the OP,  this subject is still open to interpretation regarding the Thai law.

 

Many posts on this subject (including this thread) are opinions rather than finite clear unambiguous interpretation of the laws by appropriate government agencies.

 

Some contributors in the various threads on this subject (and there have been many) claim they have been told by various government officers that it's all OK and no work permit (WP) is needed. However requests for proof, links etc., have never been supplied. It's not only WP laws, there are tax implications also.

 

On the other hand if your working in your own apartment or hotel who will see you? 

 

 

 

[phuketrichard]

4 hours ago, Boy Wonder said:

Thank you VERY much. This is exactly the sort of information I was looking for. I was completely unaware that working remote was unorthodox, and I tend to overshare at times... definitely avoided some potential issues by reading this. I will go in with a tourist visa and renew it every 3 months (I can't be bothered flying every month to renew the monthly visa upon arrival), and I'll be sure to keep my head down about how I make my money.

 

Again, thanks a bunch.

after 2 months go to immigration, get a 1 month extension 1,900

thna after 3 months you need leave the country and get anew visa, head to Laos, Cambodia or Myanmar

[LivinLOS]

Amazed no one is advising the legal route.. 

 

Contact iglu.in.th and have them provide you a work permit and B visa.. Its the real law. 

 

Yes you pay income tax (but you can then deduct it from your home country contributions) and social costs (you get medical benefit). No visa runs, red caret treatment, and fully legit. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by LivinLOS

[JLCrab]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

<snip>

If the authorities wanted to crack down, it would be simple.<snip2>

If the authorities at some point crack down, they will likely crack down on visas, not a raid on persons sitting in a shared work space. But that will likely involve persons on visas for much longer term than the OP.

 

But if you are in a shared work space, I would keep another browser window open so you could quickly switch over and say that you are just writing a letter to your mother.

Edited May 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[impulse]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Amazed no one is advising the legal route.. 

 

Contact iglu.in.th and have them provide you a work permit and B visa.. Its the real law. 

 

Yes you pay income tax (but you can then deduct it from your home country contributions) and social costs (you get medical benefit). No visa runs, red caret treatment, and fully legit. 

 

Are you sure that's legal?   Or is it another one of many dodges like ED visas for people who never bother with going to classes?   They worked like a charm for decades, until one day they didn't.

 

I'm not claiming they're not 100% legit.  I don't know.  That's why I'm asking.   But I do know that a lot of services held out over the years as "perfectly legal" (monthly visa runs, proxy shareholders, companies set up just to own real estate, ED visas for the perpetually truant, and on and on...) were really operating in the gray (that's being generous, BTW) and many of those loopholes have since slammed shut.   For example, what is the description of the work, and the locations specified on the WP?  (Anyone remember the legally permitted dive instructors who got banged up for helping their students carry their gear- because the location and activity wasn't spelled out on their WP's)?

 

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, LivinLOS said:

Amazed no one is advising the legal route.. 

 

Contact iglu.in.th and have them provide you a work permit and B visa.. Its the real law. 

 

Yes you pay income tax (but you can then deduct it from your home country contributions) and social costs (you get medical benefit). No visa runs, red caret treatment, and fully legit. 

And very expensive

 

If the OP is here for 6 months it really is not worth it, as others have said if he works at home who is going to know?

[ExpatDraco]

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

Working in Thailand as a digital nomad without a work permit is not strictly legal, but is tolerated by the authorities. As a practical matter, there is no way to get a work permit. As long as your employer is not Thai, and you do not have Thai clients, the authorities will leave you alone even if they become aware of it. For a six month stay, just use tourist visas.

 

Well, I just came across an older posting (nov 2016) on FB in a Thai related group and a supposedly knowledgeable person wrote the following:

 

"Normally requesting Work Permit in order to have a Non-B Visa requires a company's information. However, freelance shall be considered as "working" in Thailand under the Foreign Business Act also. Therefore, working as a freelance in Thailand shall be able to obtain Work Permit. I have checked records in requesting WP for freelance and it appears that there are case-by-case obtain a WP. It depends on the officer’s discretion regarding the type of work. 

You can submit the application requesting for WP together with relevant all documents about your freelance work (Such as the license (if any), plan of your services, etc.) to the officer for consideration at Work Permit Division, the Labor Department. If your request is approved, it would be a temporarily until the time that you renew your WP and the officer can check that you have paid tax."

 

So it seems it could be possible... but I'm guessing no one tried it? ?

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by ExpatDraco

[jackdd]

You can get a multiple entry tourist visa in your home country, then you don't have to get a new visa while in Thailand (if you don't stay more than 8-9 months), and you are totally flexible to travel to the sourrounding countries

 

Working online can currently be considered legal:

 

Edited May 28, 2018 by jackdd

[Media1]

Do nothing work online. Don't listen to stories. Just keep it to yourself. They are not  capable of detecting a dog missing.

Enjoy

[JLCrab]

These discussions now repeatedly reference the situation in Chiang Mai a few years back and the recent one with the Chinese in Ubon

 

However, there never has been an official statement from either the Labour Ministry or the Immigration Bureau at their respective HQ's in Bangkok saying that working online on a tourist visa is legal.

[Media1]

23 minutes ago, ExpatDraco said:

 

Well, I just came across an older posting (nov 2016) on FB in a Thai related group and a supposedly knowledgeable person wrote the following:

 

"Normally requesting Work Permit in order to have a Non-B Visa requires a company's information. However, freelance shall be considered as "working" in Thailand under the Foreign Business Act also. Therefore, working as a freelance in Thailand shall be able to obtain Work Permit. I have checked records in requesting WP for freelance and it appears that there are case-by-case obtain a WP. It depends on the officer’s discretion regarding the type of work. 

You can submit the application requesting for WP together with relevant all documents about your freelance work (Such as the license (if any), plan of your services, etc.) to the officer for consideration at Work Permit Division, the Labor Department. If your request is approved, it would be a temporarily until the time that you renew your WP and the officer can check that you have paid tax."

 

So it seems it could be possible... but I'm guessing no one tried it? ?

 

 

 

 

rubbish it's legal and the only time it's not is when you ask the question lol. l will surf and do as l please online..My business

[Media1]

Just now, JLCrab said:

These discussions now repeatedly reference the situation in Chiang Mai a few years back and the recent one with the Chinese in Ubon

 

However, there never has been an official statement from either the Labour Ministry or the Immigration Bureau at their respective HQ's in Bangkok saying that working online on a tourist visa is legal.

old news you can work online

[Media1]

10 hours ago, donnacha said:

Just keep your head down and do your work, like tens of thousands of others doing exactly the same thing. There is no permit for doing remote work in Thailand. There should be but the authorities don't understand the concept.

Your reason for entering the country is "tourism", your occupation is "businessman". In the highly unlikely event that any Thai official asks you what sort of business, just say property or something else firmly rooted in your home country.

No-one will bat an eyelid at you working in your apartment, coffee shops or even coworking spaces. As long as you don't walk around telling everyone what you are doing, no-one will care as long as you are not taking a job from a Thai. You will just be another whacky farang with a Macbook.

If you intend to actually work, minimize disruption by getting a tourist visa before you arrive, that will give you 59 days, and you can extend it for another 30, meaning you can spend a total of three months getting to grips with Thailand. You can then fly over to Saigon for a few days, get another tourist visa from the consulate there and return to Thailand for another three months. You will undoubtedly find it easier to get work done if, rather than traveling around constantly, you can get a stable base set up for yourself.

If, on the other hand, frequent trips to neighboring countries is part of your plan, don't bother with the visa, just get the 29 days on arrival that the visa waiver provides and keep jumping in and out of Thailand, getting a fresh 29 days on entry each time. Flights within South East Asia are cheap, you can be in another interesting country within a couple of hours.

Do not tell non-digital nomads that you are working, regardless of whether they are Thai or foreign, regardless of how friendly they seem to be. Certain expats have a huge bee in their bonnets about digital nomads because they don't, themselves, have the necessary skills or education to be able to work online and have to scrape by on teaching English or other low-paid work. Never underestimate the sheer vindictiveness of guys who are stuck in life, you might even come across some of them on this forum.

If you need to be in work mode, it can be helpful to be around others living the same lifestyle. Personally, I find Chiang Mai to be a good mix of high quality of life, an authentic Thai friendliness and decency (the difference when you fly into Bangkok is palpable) and a huge community of digital nomads, with plenty of interesting meetups and talks, but there is no beach.

If you are more into partying, Pattaya or one of the islands would be more your thing, but you might be surprised at how much of your attention all that stuff mops up. Some people like the big city buzz of Bangkok but I really don't understand why someone would live there unless they absolutely had to.

Again, regardless of any conflicting advice you might receive here, just come in as a tourist and stay below the radar. There is no need to overthink things, Thailand is an easy place to visit and live, you are going to have a terrific time.

read the first paragraph lol. correct no one's business. 

[JLCrab]

39 minutes ago, Media1 said:

old news you can work online

Nobody at IMM or Labour really cares. You can work online on a tourist visa as long as you have a tourist visa. Up until NOV 2015 you could get 9 months on a 3-entry tourist visa. Now all you can get is 3 months on a single entry tourist visa. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by JLCrab

[KamalaRider]

Don't forget to use a VPN service. 

The visa is 60 days with 30 days extra, renewing at immigration office or if you are older than 50, put 800 000, I think it is, in a Thai bank and apply for Non-O visa. Was almost two years since I left Thailand so things have probably changed.

But don't overstay your visa. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by KamalaRider

[AGareth2]

1 hour ago, Media1 said:

rubbish it's legal and the only time it's not is when you ask the question lol. l will surf and do as l please online..My business

do they have internet in the nick?

Edited May 28, 2018 by AGareth2

[Altalake]

There are indeed some smart and sensible people on this site - like Donnacha.

[stud858]

Multiple entry tourist visa METV gives you at least your 6 months that you want while needing to do two border runs at a cost of around 2,500 each. A third border run just before your 6 months is up would give you another 2 months. 

Working online is done by many without consequence. Just don't upset anyone that knows your doing it.

So,  tell us more exactly what kind of software stuff do you do?

[elviajero]

16 hours ago, glegolo said:

Good advise fom the above. Only thing to add is that, IF using the Tourist VISA excempt flying in and out of Thailand, just do that,, but use the airport no landborders...

 

This Tourist VISA excempt can also be extended for another 30 days, so you have 60 days for each trip out of Thailand...

 

glegolo

You can only enter twice a year by land border so you have no choice but to fly in if using visa exempt 3+ times between Jan 1st and Dec 31st.

[elviajero]

9 hours ago, ExpatDraco said:

 

Well, I just came across an older posting (nov 2016) on FB in a Thai related group and a supposedly knowledgeable person wrote the following:

 

"Normally requesting Work Permit in order to have a Non-B Visa requires a company's information. However, freelance shall be considered as "working" in Thailand under the Foreign Business Act also. Therefore, working as a freelance in Thailand shall be able to obtain Work Permit. I have checked records in requesting WP for freelance and it appears that there are case-by-case obtain a WP. It depends on the officer’s discretion regarding the type of work. 

You can submit the application requesting for WP together with relevant all documents about your freelance work (Such as the license (if any), plan of your services, etc.) to the officer for consideration at Work Permit Division, the Labor Department. If your request is approved, it would be a temporarily until the time that you renew your WP and the officer can check that you have paid tax."

 

So it seems it could be possible... but I'm guessing no one tried it? ?

I don't believe a word of this. If "freelancers" could get work permits thousands of us would have done so over the years.

[bangkok8]

I just left Thailand after 11 years there.  Do yourself a huge favor and don't go.  It is not what it used to be