Hotel Raids continue in South Pattaya

[JAZZDOG]

5 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

That depends on a number of factors including the building, location, number of rooms, building codes, environmental impact and more......Ask at your District Office not City Hall.

My attorney has a friend that works there and he will get back with me pm. Will let you know what he comes up with. In any case it might give me a quick exit strategy from this country, too much drama with this government. It kinda makes one understand how a Hispanic immigrant feels in the U.S.

[johng]

 
The number of Hotels with a Licence in Pattaya is around 300. The tourist numbers are around 7 million. Please Thailand Hotel Association, do the maths and tell us where people will stay.

Its possibly an "assets grab"..like we saw with the "zero baht" tour bus companies.

[JAZZDOG]

12 minutes ago, johng said:

 

 

Its possibly an "assets grab"..like we saw with the "zero baht" tour bus companies.

 

explain please

[sam neuts]

54 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

My attorney has a friend that works there and he will get back with me pm. Will let you know what he comes up with. In any case it might give me a quick exit strategy from this country, too much drama with this government. It kinda makes one understand how a Hispanic immigrant feels in the U.S.

Please let us all know. But, I really suggest people visit themselves and get their business inspected rather than relying on second hand information. The word of a friend won't help if your business is inspected.

Thanks for taking enough interest to at least do some research.

Good luck.

[sam neuts]

Just now, sam neuts said:

Please let us all know. But, I really suggest people visit themselves and get their business inspected rather than relying on second hand information. The word of a friend won't help if your business is inspected.

Thanks for taking enough interest to at least do some research.

Good luck.

Sorry I forgot. Don't forget to mention the 2016 amendment that was passed . Don't rely on the original Hotel Act with the 5 room less than 20 exemption. It was changed with the August 19th amendment.

We checked with 2 different lawyers who were not able to give the correct information.

[JAZZDOG]

3 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

Sorry I forgot. Don't forget to mention the 2016 amendment that was passed . Don't rely on the original Hotel Act with the 5 room less than 20 exemption. It was changed with the August 19th amendment.

We checked with 2 different lawyers who were not able to give the correct information.

Question is will the hotel license office be up to date on the 5 rooms or less?

[johng]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

explain please

 

one example

 

[Jeremia Juxtaposed]

1 hour ago, JAZZDOG said:

 It kinda makes one understand how a Hispanic immigrant feels in the U.S.

If the RTP accuse you of being a rapist and bad hombre you better make a run for it now.....

[Sprigger]

Corruption afoot, once they have shut down the little man, watch the large hotel operators prices soar. They’re a shower of shit well we know that anyway 

[sam neuts]

56 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

Question is will the hotel license office be up to date on the 5 rooms or less?

I do know someone who requested their villas to be inspected, even though they had sought legal advice and informed that the villas were operating legally.

 

It was a 4 bedroom villa.

 

A visit to the District Office and a request for an inspection which was also done by City Hall, as the owner had read one of my previous articles about the amendment and was concerned about a law that can cost you 10,000+ THB per day since the amendment became law, if they prove you have been operating illegally.

 

And the main reason was that they had every licence that was available, paid tax, paid city hall licences and other than the Hotel Act amendment, had a perfectly legal business.

 

They didn't want to operate an illegal business.

 

CONFIRMED. A licence is required.

 

Business CLOSED for daily rentals.

[sam neuts]

2 minutes ago, Sprigger said:

Corruption afoot, once they have shut down the little man, watch the large hotel operators prices soar. They’re a shower of shit well we know that anyway 

If business owners research and check with authorities it saves the shock of a raid and being arrested.

 

We all know that enforcement will eventually take place.

 

No-one ever used to get stopped for riding without a motorcycle helmet a few years ago. But now most wear a helmet and if you don't, you have a good chance of being stopped.

 

Times are changing.

[Pattaya46]

4 hours ago, sam neuts said:

> > They have raided a number of condominium buildings and are inspecting all buildings.

 

> Also could you please give a few names of these Pattaya condominium already "raided" ?

 

I am not here to post about individual buildings. All the information is available if you search Google or Facebook. I am here because it is a subject that I am fairly knowledge about and have some advice and ideas that may help.

 

As I am apparently too stupid to find this information by myself on Google, could someone please enlighten me on which Pattaya condos have been raided for this "no less than 30 days rental" rule ?

Even if I follow this forum news, I do not remember of any condo that would have decided to stop short term rental after a raid... 

[Pattaya46]

19 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

How can they check condos ? Are they visiting each of their hundred of rooms and asking people inside to prove for their status and length of stay ? Seems Mission Impossible to me... 

 

5 hours ago, arithai12 said:

Browse to booking.com, airbnb or equivalent, type in name of condo. There are pictures and details of rooms offered for less than one month. Print. Go to juristic person of said condo and have them surrender room numbers and names of owners. Mission very possible.

I really doubt that in most condos the management could identify a unit just from the Ad details and a few pictures, mainly in the recent condos who are delivered fully furnished and where all units are very similar...

I will keep this topic informed if ever my condo is "raided", but I think you may have to wait a very long time... 

[sam neuts]

Maybe the amendment will help some to understand the law and check their legal status.

 

Look at the building types.

 

On 19 August 2016, Thailand’s Ministry of Interior Ministerial Regulation Prescribing Descriptions of Other Types of Building Used for a Hotel Business Operation 2016 under the Building Control Act (1979) (the “MR”), became effective.

 

 

The MR will remain in effect for five years. However, it applies only to buildings that existed before it came into force and whose owners desire to use the property as “Hotel” (as defined by the Hotel Act) with either:

 

(a) rooms only;

 

or

 

(b) rooms and food service/restaurant facilities.

 

The three categories of buildings that are eligible for this re-classification are as follows:

 

Type 1: a building with not more than two floors and not more than 10 rooms;

 

Type 2: a building that is not a Type 1 building and which does not have more than twenty rooms;

 

and

Type 3: a building that is not a Type 1 building and which does have more than twenty rooms.

 

The MR liberalizes the various Hotel usage-building requirements under the BCA for these types of buildings. For example:

 

BUILDING TYPE  OLD REGULATIONS UNDER THE MR    

Minimum open/unused space    

Type

1, 2, and 3 Equivalent to 30% of “the area of the largest floor of the building”

(MR. No. 55 Clause 33) Equivalent to 10% of “the area of the largest floor of the building“    

Minimum width of the walkway    

Type 1 1.5 M

(MR. No. 55 Clause 21) 1 M    

Type 2   1.2 M    

Type 3   1.5 M    

Minimum width of stairs    

Type 1 1.2 – 1.5 M

Based on area of the upper floor

(MR. No. 55 Clause 24) 0.9 M    

Type 2   N/A    

Type 3   N/A    

Minimum Live Load    

Type 1 200kg/SQ M

(MR No.6) 150 KG/ SQ M    

Type 2   200 KG/ SQ M    

Type 3   200 KG/ SQ M  

 

An application to change the usage a building to a hotel under the BCA must be completed within five years from the date the MR came into force.

 

However, if the building requires structural modification before applying to change its usage to a hotel, that application (or notification under Section 39(bis) of the BCA) must be filed within two years.

 

And it should be noted the building must still comply with other BCA regulations regarding hotel usage, in force at the time the building was originally constructed (or altered), regarding such matters as the building’s height, setback, and parking.

 

 

 

 

[sam neuts]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

 

I really doubt that in most condos the management could identify a unit just from the Ad details and a few pictures, mainly in the recent condos who are delivered fully furnished and where all units are very similar...

I will keep this topic informed if ever my condo is "raided", but I think you may have to wait a very long time... 

A lot of residents are now reporting on neighbors.

 

Unless you are not submitting TM30, which is also illegal, the Immigration will be aware of short term guests at condominiums and everywhere else they are staying.

 

Entirely up to you, and best of luck.

 

But, do be aware of the law, and see if the fines and hassle is worth the profit you make.

[sam neuts]

1 hour ago, tomster said:

Do you mean it does still apply but you need to get a government department to inspect the premises and issue an exemption certificate?

If you are offering daily/weekly rentals you will require either:

 

Hotel Licence

 

Or

 

Exemption Certificate

 

Whichever one you have must be displayed in a prominent position at the entrance or reception of the building.

 

One or the other.

[Pattaya46]

31 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

Unless you are not submitting TM30, which is also illegal, the Immigration will be aware of short term guests at condominiums and everywhere else they are staying.

You must be joking, right? How many of the owners at The Base who rent "very short time" to Chinese groups (3 days, 2 days, 1 night!) are doing TM30 ? Probably very next to zero ! They do know that their guests are in Thailand for at most 1 week or 10 days, and that they will never need to go to an Immigration Office (for an extension or other service). As airports don't care about TM30, they peacefully make their business without such constraint.

 

PS: I am not one of those who rent. I own a condo, yes, but am living in it.

[sam neuts]

15 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

You must be joking, right? How many of the owners at The Base who rent "very short time" to Chinese groups (3 days, 2 days, 1 night!) are doing TM30 ? Probably very next to zero ! They do know that their guests are in Thailand for at most 1 week or 10 days, and that they will never need to go to an Immigration Office (for an extension or other service). As airports don't care about TM30, they peacefully make their business without such constraint.

 

PS: I am not one of those who rent. I own a condo, yes, but am living in it.

I agree. That is why the TM30 has started to be enforced.

 

A different subject that also involves many other associated changes that are also being introduced.

 

Submitting a TM30 is a requirement under immigration law within 24 hours of arrival.

 

The new Arrival/Departure Card is part of the changes also.

 

Although Immigration are not actively enforcing it at the Airports now. It doesn't mean that they don't know, or don't care. They have to wait for instructions, like any other governmental departments. 

 

You will see more and more changes over the next 6 months.

[topt]

5 hours ago, sam neuts said:

If you are offering daily/weekly rentals you will require either:

 

Hotel Licence

 

Or

 

Exemption Certificate

 

Whichever one you have must be displayed in a prominent position at the entrance or reception of the building.

 

One or the other.

Can you provide a link to an official document that says this please - or is that someones interpretation of the law?

Thanks

[JAZZDOG]

Seems to me if the RTP were raiding and shutting down all these hotels/guesthouses, putting guests out on the streets that this would be big news. I cant find even one article about this. Seems like the possibility of putting a large sector of the tourist industry out of business would at least be up there with a guy taking a piss while cooking sausage. Can someone site articles other than TV forum?

[sam neuts]

22 minutes ago, tomster said:

Appartently not, this thread seems to come down to the experience of one person. I just sopke with a friend of mine that owns the largest real estate agency in CM. He had never heard of an exemption certificate and is dealing with multiple cases of this problem on a daily basis. Maybe it's just different in Chiang Mai, or different here which ever way you look at it, but I for one am not inclined to believe that an exemption certificate is required (or even exists), until I see one.

There is an exemption for a certain property type for a particular situation.

 

The attachment contains the 2016 Amendment to the Hotel Act.

 

As you can see the amendment applies to most properties and buildings.

 

Yes I do know what the exemption certificate is, and that it is available under a certain condition.

 

I am not willing to let everyone know at this time, but I am sure if people are interested they will do some research and keep the interest going in this topic.

 

I have a few more interesting topics to discuss with everyone to.

 

 

Amendment to Hotel Act On 19 August 2016.docx

Edited June 7, 2018 by sam neuts
Forgot to add attachment

[Pattaya46]

9 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Seems to me if the RTP were raiding and shutting down all these hotels/guesthouses, putting guests out on the streets that this would be big news. I cant find even one article about this.//

There are indeed "raids" on (some) hotels and guesthouses in Pattaya and there are reports in the media, but of course no guest concerned. By example :

http://bangkokjack.com/2018/04/28/seven-pattaya-hotel-operators-four-foreigners-taken-in-by-police-for-not-having-licences/

or https://pattayaone.news/en/more-pattaya-hotel-raids/

but what I didn't read anywhere are the (supposed?) many raids on South-Pattaya Condos as proclaimed by @sam neuts who refuses to give any source or any condo name... 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Pattaya46

[sam neuts]

I am not sure if I am allowed to add links but you can find more info from your District Office.

 

Here is Pattaya.

 

http://www.banglamungdistrict.go.th/?page=services&subpage=04

[sam neuts]

3 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

There are indeed "raids" on (some) hotels and guesthouses in Pattaya and there are reports in the media. By example :

http://bangkokjack.com/2018/04/28/seven-pattaya-hotel-operators-four-foreigners-taken-in-by-police-for-not-having-licences/

or https://pattayaone.news/en/more-pattaya-hotel-raids/

but what I didn't read anywhere are the (supposed?) many raids on South-Pattaya Condos as proclaimed by @sam neuts who refuses to give any source or any condo name... 

I will not be giving any names of businesses raided, as I don't think that is MY business to make to make them public.

 

The Media does that well enough. Maybe the owners and managers don't want me to give their business name and personal details.

 

These raids also include other offences than the Hotel Act, and I am only interested in things that are related to the Hotel Act and the massive effect the amendment makes to so many people. Unfortunately many cant see the implications yet.

[moe666]

On 6/5/2018 at 10:28 PM, swissie said:

Full compliance is in 2021. By then, the "raiders" will have thought of another money-generating "shake-down" scheme.
Could it be, that mainly "foreighn-owned" businesses are the main target?
Farang investors seem to be more interested in the subject than the Thais themselves.

As long as the "raiders" are grossly underpaid, "shake-downs", "crack-downs", "clean-up's", "knock-downs", "mop-up's" will be the order of the day. (Yawn).
But I am sure some hotel-licence crack down is more lucrative than rounding up the "usual suspects" of Lady-Boys on Beach Road.
Don't worry, be happy and hand over the brown envelope when the time is right. (Original text of an ancient Thai Folk Song.)

Food for thaught: Any legislation, violating the social concept of THAI RAK THAI in a major way will not be enforced.
Note: It's "Thai Rak Thai" and not "Thai Rak Farang."
Cheers.

Sorry to tell you but no it isn't mainly foreign owned. Here in Chiang Mai a lot of Thai owned Guest houses are being searched

[sam neuts]

3 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Sorry to tell you but no it isn't mainly foreign owned. Here in Chiang Mai a lot of Thai owned Guest houses are being searched

You are perfectly correct.

This has nothing to do with foreigners.

Both Thai and Foreigners are affected.

It is about revenue, licencing, safety of tourists and the security of Thailand

[sam neuts]

16 hours ago, topt said:

Can you provide a link to an official document that says this please - or is that someones interpretation of the law?

Thanks

I am not giving that information out at this time.

 

There should be a lot more interest in a subject that affects so many businesses and travellers.

 

The information is out there if people show enough interest to find facts.

[sam neuts]

10 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Seems to me if the RTP were raiding and shutting down all these hotels/guesthouses, putting guests out on the streets that this would be big news. I cant find even one article about this. Seems like the possibility of putting a large sector of the tourist industry out of business would at least be up there with a guy taking a piss while cooking sausage. Can someone site articles other than TV forum?

Only just started but you can take a look at my FB Group.

 

A few links to raids and the laws concerned.

 

Lots more to come and waiting for lots of professional research reports to be completed.

 

But, you may find it of interest, to start.

 

Lots of work and changes still going on behind the scenes but we will show you some things that maybe you didn't know, and within a few months, when we get a decent amount of interest we will help people as much as we can.

 

 

[JAZZDOG]

34 minutes ago, sam neuts said:

I am not giving that information out at this time.

 

There should be a lot more interest in a subject that affects so many businesses and travellers.

 

The information is out there if people show enough interest to find facts.

In all due respect in going back researching this subject there have been several articles on raids on hotels, mainly for other reasons but  few about licensing. The seven you cite never missed a beat. Once you get to the point that 3/4 of the hotels are in non-compliance for one reason or another the cat is out the bag and had 100 litters. Putting all those cats back would likely cause civil unrest and loss of a whole lot of political currency. All this screaming the sky is falling needs a bit more clarity than " I am not giving that information out at this time". If you got information come off of it otherwise it sounds the same as the mixed signals the Government sends out every couple years. Why hold back information ?

[sam neuts]

2 minutes ago, JAZZDOG said:

In all due respect in going back researching this subject there have been several articles on raids on hotels, mainly for other reasons but  few about licensing. The seven you cite never missed a beat. Once you get to the point that 3/4 of the hotels are in non-compliance for one reason or another the cat is out the bag and had 100 litters. Putting all those cats back would likely cause civil unrest and loss of a whole lot of political currency. All this screaming the sky is falling needs a bit more clarity than " I am not giving that information out at this time". If you got information come off of it otherwise it sounds the same as the mixed signals the Government sends out every couple years. Why hold back information ?

There is so much information out there and we have been working hard to create something, that will help lots of small businesses and many others in the near future.

 

I am not going to be totally open at this time with all the information we have researched, and the affects they will have.

 

We are trying to help people understand that there are things that they should be doing to help themselves.

 

I am happy to give information on the actual law on this forum and any other groups, but I really think that if enough people take an interest it may help us all.

 

And to show they are interested they should do at least some research for themselves.

 

To give an example of one of the exemptions in the law defeats the purpose of helping many, as it will only be useful to a few.