This thai girl

[mogandave]

 
Back in the old days, women didn't work (much, or for much money) and it was common for husbands to give their wives allowances.  Back then it was also common for men to set up their mistresses and girlfriends - maybe pay for their apartments and give them some spending money.
 
You don't see this very often in the West anymore - women generally work, and there's a stigma to being a "kept woman", i.e a woman who dates a more established man directly for gifts of rent and money.
 
Gender relations in Thailand aren't like the West, they're more like the West 30 or 50 years ago.  Lots of guys move to Thailand for that very reason.  Some get married and are happy to give their wives allowances.  (What else are you going to do for a wife who doesn't work?  Micromanage her cosmetics and grocery bills?)  Other guys take girlfriends or mistresses, and just like the West in the 1950s, they set them up.
 
Maybe someday I'll do the same, maybe not.  Who am I to judge?
 
You're treating this girl like she's your contemporary, in your home country, and you're dating casually.  But really she's more like a country girl in the 1950s who moved to New York, hoping to find a man who will sweep her off her feet.  Any job she can get will pay her peanuts a day, for doing work you'd never consider doing yourself, and would take away all of her free time and most of her good cheer.  She's confused because you probably talk about her (or women) as though they're equals to men, but you are clearly holding all the cards, and if you talk to her you'll probably find that she doesn't really think men and women are equal in rights or abilities.
 
I'm not saying you should give her an allowance, but maybe you should realize that you're not really a good thing for her.  It's the equivalent of stringing along a girl for sex who thinks (or hopes) you're going to marry her.  As other posters have suggested, you should find a more independent girlfriend.  Maybe stick to Tinder profiles that list professional occupations and/or university names.  But your perceived value to those girls will be lower, so you may not have as much luck.

I think the percentage of “kept” women in the US has always be low.

My mother, along with thousands if not millions of other “county girls” moved to New York in the ‘30s, ‘40s, ‘50s.....to work.

My mother operated a turret-lathe and later waited tables.

The percentage of men during that time that could support a family and keep a notch on the side was pretty small.

[Canuckabroad]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I think the percentage of “kept” women in the US has always be low.

My mother, along with thousands if not millions of other “county girls” moved to New York in the ‘30s, ‘40s, ‘50s.....to work.

My mother operated a turret-lathe and later waited tables.

The percentage of men during that time that could support a family and keep a notch on the side was pretty small.

 

 

Probably small, yes.  I might be wrong too - I wasn't alive back then and I can only go by books and movies to guess at what the accepted social mores were.  But those sources lead me to believe that men paying their wives and mistresses an allowance was more socially acceptable than it is today.  (I'm including wives because some posters have replied about giving their in-laws money via their wives allowances.)

 

A lot of men seem to come to Thailand with an interest in setting up a girl.  Maybe not all of them know what they are getting into.  Maybe I wouldn't recognize it at first either.  There certainly seems to be a big supply of women who are keen on getting into such a relationship.  Am I being too kind by attributing it to gender relations from a bygone era?  Or are Thai women culturally more predatory than in other nearby countries?  I've only been in the region for a few years so I can't say.

 

I stand by my advise to the OP that he should try to date more independent women.  I avoid financially desperate women looking to "date up" for this very reason.  I don't get laid as often but it's still a big dating pool.

 

[atyclb]

3 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

Actually, I think it’s when you point the finger there are three pointing back.

Before you point the finger, all four are pointing back.

Don’t get me started on thumbs...

 

 

i first learned that saying from a very nice gal in that had quit and was in recovery. highly applicable to addicts that blame everyone else for their problems rather than look at themselves or look at the bottle.

Edited June 11, 2018 by atyclb

[mogandave]

 
i first learned that saying from a very nice gal in that had quit and was in recovery. highly applicable to addicts that blame everyone else for their problems rather than look at themselves or look at the bottle.

I heard it where she did...

[mogandave]

 
Probably small, yes.  I might be wrong too - I wasn't alive back then and I can only go by books and movies to guess at what the accepted social mores were.  But those sources lead me to believe that men paying their wives and mistresses an allowance was more socially acceptable than it is today.  (I'm including wives because some posters have replied about giving their in-laws money via their wives allowances.)
 
A lot of men seem to come to Thailand with an interest in setting up a girl.  Maybe not all of them know what they are getting into.  Maybe I wouldn't recognize it at first either.  There certainly seems to be a big supply of women who are keen on getting into such a relationship.  Am I being too kind by attributing it to gender relations from a bygone era?  Or are Thai women culturally more predatory than in other nearby countries?  I've only been in the region for a few years so I can't say.
 
I stand by my advise to the OP that he should try to date more independent women.  I avoid financially desperate women looking to "date up" for this very reason.  I don't get laid as often but it's still a big dating pool.
 

Yes, before married women worked, they were more likely to get an allowance from their husband. I do not know how common it was, but I can remember my parents’ opinion of the practice.

In most of the families we were friends with, I believe the wives paid the bills and kept the book.

At least where I grew up, contrary to what contemporary media would have you believe, couples seemed more as equals than anything else, of course bring a kid you never know.

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Canuckabroad said:

Or are Thai women culturally more predatory than in other nearby countries? 

Where there's no welfare, there are predatory single mom's, they've got to eat somehow.

[The manic]

You are being incredibly mean and insulting. Give her a 1000 baht a day thus giving her self respect. 

[atyclb]

15 hours ago, coulson said:

I have dated 3 or 4 Thai women over the years who were all well educated, with their own place, job (not even close to the industry you refer), didn't appear to be on the take etc.......but all asked for money in the end.

 

Give the OP some due at least, all he is inferring is that a lot of Thai women who appear to be genuine on the outset, end up looking for their paycheck.

 

 

agree, but some will ask for money while others wont.

'for me personally that is a big turnoff especially if they are so well educated, have their own places, etc.  they may have a lot of debt also

 

seems there also exists the "entitlement attitude" regarding sex.  since they had sex with a guy they are entitled to get money from him.

[mogandave]

Where there's no welfare, there are predatory single mom's, they've got to eat somehow.

It always amazes me the way people compare Thais with westerners.

If you marry a deadbeat for “love” in the US, no big deal.

If you marry a deadbeat for “love” in Thailand, you end up in a four-mat fan-room selling flowers in the street.

[mogandave]

Where there's no welfare, there are predatory single mom's, they've got to eat somehow.

I think predatory is inappropriate, as it infers the men are somehow victims.

How about “discerning”?

[smotherb]

6 hours ago, luk AJ said:

I agree, “keeping up appearances” is so time and energy consuming. I focus all of that in my business so I can relax at home with a beautiful down to earth lady.


Luk

Don't know what keeping up appearances is all about. I live a very relaxed lifestyle; always have. Of course, I have had to clean up for work, but they paid me well to do that. And, I met some great independent ladies through my work--none whom expected me to support them or their families. I was commenting on the OPs issues and specifically responding to atyclb's question

On 6/10/2018 at 1:20 AM, atyclb said:

is there anyone here that feels their time is also important thus not in favor of providing a salary for a gal to be the girlfriend. 

 

My lady is quite down to earth. She does everything for me and takes care of all the little hassles in life I choose to avoid. You see, I didn't have to focus all on business by myself. My wife had good jobs and earned good money too. She contributed significantly to our assets and we share them--just as if we were a loving couple interested in each other's welfare.

[smotherb]

19 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I love the hypocrisy of people who claim they never "pay for it" or they have wives that they never give money to. 
They'd have you believe that they are so handsome and good in bed that women throw themselves at them and never ask for anything in return. 

 

Then you ask them a couple of questions and it's like "no, I don't give her money, we have a joint account and she takes whatever she wants/needs" or you ask them how she pays for hair salons and such and they say something like "oh I give her an allowance".

Uh huh.

Because "giving her an allowance" is different than "paying her".

Years ago when I was posted to Germany I was having a discussion with a couple of married guys after a trip to Hamburg. One of them had his nose so high in the air over the idea of "paying for it" that a light rain would have drowned him. I asked him if he was married (he said yes) and I told him, buddy, you are "paying for it" everyday of your life, the only difference is, when I pay for it, I get "it". Then I asked him the last time he got "it" and he started looking really sad. I knew a couple other guys whose wives basically took their whole paycheques and gave the husband an allowance (oh but they aren't "paying for it" so it's different).

Yeah, just like this forum where not one single person met his wife in a bar and everyone is quick to say "My Girl Is Different" (MGID for short).

As for the OP. Please. Get serious. 
The instant she said "why you not pay me" it should have been obvious. Just because you met her on Tinder means she isn't a hooker ? So what if she used to work in a hotel. It's far more likely that she is "freelancing" (and maybe that is why she isn't working at a hotel anymore - some places probably take a dim view of their staff getting too cozy with the customers). If you meet a girl that used to work in a hotel, then there's probably a pretty good reason why she isn't still working there.

And just because she was working at a hotel doesn't mean she isn't "playing the game". I found that out on my very first trip to Pattaya (back in 1993). Was drinking in a disco with an old Brit and his "date" when another girl showed up and started yelling at him. Turns out, she worked at the hotel he was staying in and had been sleeping with him - until one night when she got off work and went up to his room and let herself in, only to find he'd brought someone else home with him. Then, a couple nights later (when I was with him) she went looking for him and found him in the disco with a different girl !

It's almost a running joke now. When a girl tells you "she only start working bar today" what she really means is - she only started working at "that" bar that day (and is probably eager to show the mamasan that she can bring in the business). 
I had a girl I picked up in a friend's go-go. She told me she never worked in a go-go before (I didn't believe her - she looked and acted too much like a pro). She wanted me to take her to Happy A-Go-Go. Surprise surprise - she knew all the staff and half the dancers. Turns out she'd worked in Pattaya for something like 13 years, got married, moved to Isaan, got divorced when hubby's money ran out and came back to Pattaya to look for another ATM. (I left her in Happy's and went somewhere else.)
Another one told me she'd only started working that week. As soon as she took the stage you could see she'd been "working a pole" for a lot more than a week. I knew the mamasan and asked her. Sure enough, the girl had only been working a week - at that go-go. Plus the 7 years she'd spent in Bangkok until she started looking a little too "old".

Plenty of girls have arrived in Pattaya to take jobs in restaurants, hotels, hair salons etc and within weeks (or days) have been to the bars, discos and karaokes.

Often, within days, they've also hooked up with a local Thai guy (who they are probably way more happy with than you). In some cases, they start out staying with a "sister" or "cousin" and that person brings them to their bar/go-go and in short order has them working there (often to pay off a debt owed to that sister or cousin). Or their new boyfriend starts pressuring them to get out and make some money for him.
(Yes, I've personally seen these things.)
Or they simply see what kind of money "those" girls are raking in and want a piece of the action. 

Some girls don't play that game and are happy with working in 7-11s, restaurants and so on. Some girls work in beer bars. Some girls that maybe aren't so shy work in the go-gos. A lot of girls that don't want to work in either "freelance". And it seems that a lot of them have taken to the internet to look for customers. Dating sites (and apps) are full of women looking for "dates". Freelances don't have to worry about things like working hours, drink quotas and bar fines (but they hope you don't know that) and they don't have to worry about little things like weekly medical check-ups.

Ideally they would prefer a good looking guy with a fat............wallet, but a not so good looking guy with a fat.........wallet is also good, or even an old, fat guy (with a fat.........wallet) is doable. If they can find one that wants to keep them around longer, all the better. Most of them don't want to be shagging different, smelly, ugly old men every night. Shagging the same ugly old guy every night would be better (depending on how fat that wallet is). 
But they ALL need money. 
Many of them have babies they've left at home with mom to raise while they are out trying to earn a living. Others maybe caring for family members back home. 

I've met a couple of families, of girls I'd known for barely a couple weeks. I sincerely doubt I was the first "foreigner" they ever brought home with them.

I had it down at one point to where I could almost tell for certain how long a girl had been in Pattaya by how well she spoke English.

If she could barely say "Hansum man" and "love you too mut" then she was probably under a week.

If she could say "no like Thai man - only like farang" and "not like young man, like old man" then she'd probably been there for a couple weeks.

If she could say "I never work bar before, only start today" and "I not have boyfriend, not have husband, not have baby, only have you teerak but momma have accident and need money for doctor and if you not give me I have to go back to bar and sell pussy" then she's probably been there for at least a couple of months.

The problem a lot of guys have is, their first trip to Thailand is like nothing else they've ever experienced. The weather - the sights - the smells - the food - the girls - it can be overwhelming, especially if you are acting like the typical "2 week millionaire" (which it sounds like you were doing). 

It all goes to their head (literally) and their brain goes into the dumpster. 

When I first started working in Afghanistan back in 2003, we had a firefighter working for the company that was the kind of guy girls swooned over. Like something straight out of a Chippendale's calendar. He took a 10 day trip to Phuket, first time ever in Thailand.
Long story short - he fell in love with the 3rd girl he hooked up with. Quit his job, went to Thailand to marry his sweetheart and start a business. Found out it is easier said than done. Went broke, his wife dumped him and found a new man (literally within days). He ended up doing odd jobs, working "under the table" to try and make enough to get home.

Plenty of people have lost their heads after their first trip to Thailand. I even had to caution my dear old dad after his first trip here. Was here just over 2 weeks and was already making plans to move here. I had to tell him that living here was a lot different than "holidaying" here. I also had to caution him about the women. He was a short, pudgy old guy (75) and when I took him to a friend's go-go bar, he had all the women all over him.
He first "girlfriend" was about 35. He dumped her when he realized she had 2 or 3 other foreign boyfriends on the go at the same time. His next girlfriend was 33. She took him to the cleaners (financially) but at least she stayed with him until the end. (Well duh - she was ripping him off for 20,000 a day - she was some pissed when I put a stop to that and was able to convince dad to get me to give back his bankbook and ATM card - so she could keep ripping him off !)
But of course - she "loved him too much" ! So much so that even though she made close to 1,000,000 off of him she was pissed that she didn't get more (and it turns out she gave most of it to her boyfriend who blew it all of course and she was back working in a bar within a year).

But always remember the cardinal rule in Thailand - "My Girl Is Different". As long as you can remember that you will be fine.

Or not.

Oh, and also remember another rule - "Never be worth more dead than you are alive".

 

And another rule - don't brag on a Visa forum about how you are a tourist in Thailand but working "online". 

And always remember - "if you want to make a small fortune in Thailand, start with a large one" !

And if you are old and broke, never bend over the balcony of a high-rise apartment or condo. The older you are (and the broker you are) increases the chances that you may "fall" over the railing. 

And remember, if you buy ANYTHING in "her" name - it's hers. Period. Doesn't matter if it's a car, a condo or a beer bar. Doesn't matter if you've just put your entire fortune into it. It's hers and if she kicks you out 5 minutes later and sells everything - tough luck for you.

And seriously - think about it. When I'm with a girl (long time) it's not like at 5 pm every Friday I'm going "OK honey, here's 5,000 for all the sex and companionship you gave me over the last week".

But if she tells me she needs 500 baht to go to the hair salon I might give her 2,000. What she does with the rest is up to her. When she asked me for money to go to Bangkok with her cousin to attend a "Bon Cafe" franchise meeting, I gave her 5,000. She probably spent 2 and kept the rest. When she said she wanted to go eat noodles with her girlfriend I gave her a thousand. However, if we went somewhere (say to a restaurant) and I gave her a couple thousand to cover the bill, she'd make sure I got all the change back (and then look away when I gave the tip). She's done the same thing other times where I've given her money to pay for something and she's brought back the change (big and small). It's kind of like she knows "this" money is meant for her and "that" money is "ours". 
So I'm not "paying her for sex" but she is still making a whack more than if she was working in a 7-11 (or a hotel). 

Then again, if you really are working online and doing so well that you are drinking a bottle of vodka every night then it's likely that you'll be a statistic before too long.

 

Tell us - do you perchance have (Travel) Medical Insurance ? The kind that covers you in foreign countries ? The kind that covers you if you have an accident on a scooter/motorcycle ? 

You seem to be so deep in the sandbox, you cannot see over the edges. Is it beyond your imagination that a woman may have enough wherewithal to actually have a good job and earn good money? My wife did, she was financially independent, she did not need to stay with me, but she did. Her jobs had benefits; like insurance, retirement packages and stock plans. My contract jobs rarely did. We both invested heavily from our salaries; we now live on those investments and my social security. When she is old enough, she will get social security and a retirement, something I do not have. So, our assets are our assets. I do not have to give her money; she can get it herself.

[pgrahmm]

53 minutes ago, smotherb said:

You seem to be so deep in the sandbox, you cannot see over the edges. Is it beyond your imagination that a woman may have enough wherewithal to actually have a good job and earn good money? My wife did, she was financially independent, she did not need to stay with me, but she did. Her jobs had benefits; like insurance, retirement packages and stock plans. My contract jobs rarely did. We both invested heavily from our salaries; we now live on those investments and my social security. When she is old enough, she will get social security and a retirement, something I do not have. So, our assets are our assets. I do not have to give her money; she can get it herself.

Ditto here.....Uni degree, 17 years at the same management position, owned her own townhouse, savings account, credit cards & car....Had benefits from a large multinational corporation ...

Usually received a nice 6 figure year end bonus - between 100-200k.....

She didn't need me.....But somehow we found each other.....

 

[smotherb]

37 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

Ditto here.....Uni degree, 17 years at the same management position, owned her own townhouse, savings account, credit cards & car....Had benefits from a large multinational corporation ...

Usually received a nice 6 figure year end bonus - between 100-200k.....

She didn't need me.....But somehow we found each other.....

 

Ah, I guess it is just our animal magnetism that keeps the women around.

[bermannor]

17 hours ago, atyclb said:

entitlement attitude

In all 2nd and 3rd world countries it's quite normal, the man cares for the woman, even before marriage.

Some ask or expect directly money, some expect a cadeaux or clearing the credit card overdraft.

Also not unusual in 1st world countries. Women marry up, men down. Of course there are exceptions to the rule.

And not unusual for a Thai girl, who somehow got money, will buy her tirak a couple of Baht gold, just to show her friends, how well off her friend is. Ok, it may not last too long and the gold chain is in the pawn shop ?.

Also, it's not unusual, that a girl gives her boyfriend the sin sod money (dowry, lobolo etc.) so they can marry.

[tifino]

they are all just sweet pussycats:

 

[XB12X]

On 6/9/2018 at 2:31 PM, atyclb said:

 

 

my advice to op. hang out at ekamai rd and thonglor road upscale clubs and find gals whose attraction is based on chemistry and not the payoff. just dont post here with your upscale success stories as you wont make many friends here lol

Part of the problem on here is that so many posters have no experience of dating women who have proper jobs and are not working in the sex industry or on the fringes of it. Try living away from the main sex tourist areas and you will meet normal Thai women.

Edited June 12, 2018 by XB12X

[XB12X]

20 hours ago, The manic said:

You are being incredibly mean and insulting. Give her a 1000 baht a day thus giving her self respect. 

31,000 per month! That must have been a joke.

[neeray]

6 minutes ago, XB12X said:

Part of the problem on here is that so many posters have no experience of dating women who have proper jobs and are not working in the sex industry or on the fringes of it.

 

With only 19 posts under your belt, how can you be sure that that is really the case? Please share with all of us.

[XB12X]

You only have to read this forum to work this out. You don't need to post.

Edited June 12, 2018 by XB12X

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Hang around Ekkamai and Thonglor in upscale clubs to find a girl based on chemistry? May as well get your date around Soi Cowboy. 

 

 

[BritManToo]

17 hours ago, smotherb said:

Ah, I guess it is just our animal magnetism that keeps the women around.

Or lack in standards.

Sorry guys, I want young and pretty and that costs (I know what your women look like).

I'd rather live alone than live with a woman (but she's got money) I didn't want to shag.

Edited June 12, 2018 by BritManToo

[smotherb]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Or lack in standards.

Sorry guys, I want young and pretty and that costs (I know what your women look like).

I'd rather live alone than live with a woman (but she's got money) I didn't want to shag.

You have absolutely no idea of what my woman looks like. Apparently you did not read my criteria; good looking, intelligent and capable. And, the capable part means more than just being able to spread her legs. If you think only money can buy a good looking girl, you better have money; I doubt you have anything else.

[smotherb]

5 hours ago, tifino said:

they are all just sweet pussycats:

 

If you believe that, you deserve it. A girl who will do what she wants anytime she wants with whoever she wants is not a girl I would care to have. I want a girl who is happy to see me, wants me, takes care of me, and doesn't want me to leave.

[pgrahmm]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Or lack in standards.

Sorry guys, I want young and pretty and that costs (I know what your women look like).

I'd rather live alone than live with a woman (but she's got money) I didn't want to shag.

Completely clueless.....Very few are the times I've been out with my wife and seen a better looking woman....

I've watched her spin men around on 3 different continents.....Watched waiters walk into tables & doorways looking at her.....

Good luck with your delusions & pay for play....

[smotherb]

2 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Hang around Ekkamai and Thonglor in upscale clubs to find a girl based on chemistry? May as well get your date around Soi Cowboy. 

 

 

Well, doesn't that depend upon your personality and ability to find the proper solute for the solvent. 

 

I have a very good friend, a fellow expat I have known for years. He is not particularly young, good looking or fluent in Thai; yet no matter where we go, upscale or downscale, he attracts the women. I have to work at it. Yet, I have a lovely, intelligent and capable wife and he has had only bad relationships; even though he wants a good one. Go figure.

 

I think some of us are confusing having a relationship and having mud for your turtle. If you want a good relationship, I suggest you find it outside the bars. If you simply want some more mud; that's what the bars are for. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying a good girl cannot work in a bar or that a good relationship cannot be had with a bar girl. It can happen; but the odds are against it. 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

23 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Well, doesn't that depend upon your personality and ability to find the proper solute for the solvent. 

 

I have a very good friend, a fellow expat I have known for years. He is not particularly young, good looking or fluent in Thai; yet no matter where we go, upscale or downscale, he attracts the women. I have to work at it. Yet, I have a lovely, intelligent and capable wife and he has had only bad relationships; even though he wants a good one. Go figure.

 

I think some of us are confusing having a relationship and having mud for your turtle. If you want a good relationship, I suggest you find it outside the bars. If you simply want some more mud; that's what the bars are for. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying a good girl cannot work in a bar or that a good relationship cannot be had with a bar girl. It can happen; but the odds are against it. 

 

I think you misunderstood my post.

[The manic]

3 hours ago, XB12X said:

31,000 per month! That must have been a joke.

She can share some expenses..pay her own way so to speak. She cleans up, does shopping. But at least give her something. If you can't afford 20 quid a day for full time female companionship then go home....which the OP has done. A 1000 baht a day is nothing....or give her a stipend of 15k. But just paying for things such as food in exchange for free sex is awful. It's degrading. It's shameful. Alternatively...marry her. But do the right thing one way or another.

Edited June 12, 2018 by The manic

[The manic]

2 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Hang around Ekkamai and Thonglor in upscale clubs to find a girl based on chemistry? May as well get your date around Soi Cowboy. 

 

 

The Thonglor and Ekamai girls are just Hi So whores operating in a different and usually selfish way.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

5 minutes ago, The manic said:

The Thonglor and Ekamai girls are just Hi So whores operating in a different and usually selfish way.

 

Exactly.