46 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

Trump is certainly controversial...but is generally doing what he said he would do. What will be interesting is the midterm elections that are coming up...we will see what the US public think and I will reserve my opinion till then. However, the US certainly has some trade imbalances with many places and trade imbalances are inherently bad, so maybe he's right to ask for real fair trade or real free trade plus reciprocal tariffs...something the EU would have convulsions over.

You mean a free trade agreement like the TTIP that Trump scratched? ?

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

The "American" bases in the UK are British. You are our guests.

We are not your guess, I think its the mutual agreement with the British gov. Just like the Status of Forces Agreement with the other countries.

Then tell the US  to leave and the US will. No big deal just do it. The US will be glad to move somewhere else. Like I stated earlier, several countries are asking for the US to open bases there. I am sure the Tax payers in the US will be glad to hold onto those billions they are spending there.

While you are at it why don't you kick The US out of the UN also. But then you would have to move it some place nice. How about Sub-Sahara Africa, plenty of parking, no more NY night life. But without the US the UN would not even have the money to move, as in (would not have a pot to pi--  in).

But this is all just BS because some have there little willie hard for the US. No big deal there Mat, its all just BS or that TDS kicking in.

PS: My regards to all the British military, great to work with. A old friend from London sent me a nice joke the other day, a good old retired soldier.  Hitler is probably rolling over in his grave. Merkel conquered Europe and did not fire a shot.

12 minutes ago, iroc4life said:

Noone is being isolationist only realist. Free trade is supposed to be that, Fair trade the same. Make it so or get in a trade war, either way a deal will be made.

 Though the world may dislike the USA (who cares?) they need the USA more now then they did 20 years ago. Since all these trade deals and the creation of NATO, no country other than the USA has maintained a military strong enough for their own defense. Go it alone and as I said before, Germany the only EU state actually contributing to the EU will rule them all (EDIT) AGAIN

Fine

43 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

I'd like to see Merkel orMacron press their palms down on the table in front of Xi like that.....disgraceful spineless BS.

   Their aggression doesnot appear to be getting much support though even here huh.

They may not seem to show much support but they signed the same declaration. Lol

4 minutes ago, allen303 said:

We are not your guess, I think its the mutual agreement with the British gov. Just like the Status of Forces Agreement with the other countries.

Then tell the US  to leave and the US will. No big deal just do it. The US will be glad to move somewhere else. Like I stated earlier, several countries are asking for the US to open bases there. I am sure the Tax payers in the US will be glad to hold onto those billions they are spending there.

While you are at it why don't you kick The US out of the UN also. But then you would have to move it some place nice. How about Sub-Sahara Africa, plenty of parking, no more NY night life. But without the US the UN would not even have the money to move, as in (would not have a pot to pi--  in).

But this is all just BS because some have there little willie hard for the US. No big deal there Mat, its all just BS or that TDS kicking in.

PS: My regards to all the British military, great to work with. A old friend from London sent me a nice joke the other day, a good old retired soldier.  Hitler is probably rolling over in his grave. Merkel conquered Europe and did not fire a shot.

Just go. Please.

14 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Why does Europe need USA?

Good question, and really do I need to answer that? Our peace in Europe is quite new 70 years in my part of it, and its still fragile, when whe have Brexit on one of the sides, and France with their interests, and Germany with their interests, and of course still (not so long) the biggest economy of world USA. Usa have a big part of our history, and contributor to our wealth, as we have been to Us wealth. Never forget that. 

 

Whole Europe could have spoken russian right now, if it was not for Usa late contribution to 2. World war in Europe. The world is not going to stay as it is now, but we can try to keep our friendships up to date? 

 

Well Im tellig you, we have alot that Russia and China wants, but do we want them? 

3 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Trump is doing what has to be done for America and American interests. Of course the other countries do not like it they are used to playing the presidents of America. Trump is the only one with guts enough to say America will not be a door mat any more. 

  He is so good.  And he means business.He will get America working again and prosperous. No one likes him but he gets results. What do people want a mouth piece who just rolls over or a man who deals with reality. Trump doesnot roll over and get walked on he is so good.

So you  consider Trump's show off of self confidence as proof of competence, and boldness ?  Trump is the epitome of what the US has always managed to hide to the world so far. It is a nation that has always brutally put its interest first and imposed its principles because of its power. Trump is a bad thing for a good, Europeans and their partners should open their eyes

  

  What "we" do you imagine you speak for?

 

Not the American people that's for sure. The American people have been hijacked by a bizarre authoritarian Putin lackey. Maybe we can weather one term of this madness. 

 

 

"McCain to allies: 'Americans stand with you, even if our president doesn't'"

 

 

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/09/politics/mccain-statement-trade/index.html

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Good question, and really do I need to answer that? Our peace in Europe is quite new 70 years in my part o yuf it, and its still fragile, when whe have Brexit on one of the sides, and France with their interests, and Germany with their interests, and of course still (not so long) the biggest economy of world USA. Usa have a big part of our history, and contributor to our wealth, as we have been to Us wealth. Never forget that. 

 

Whole Europe could have spoken russian right now, if it was not for Usa late contribution to 2. World war in Europe. The world is not going to stay as it is now, but we can try to keep our friendships up to date? 

 

Well Im tellig you, we have alot that Russia and China wants, but do we want them? 

So in short: we need the US because of WW2.

Yes, we should be grateful for that, but needing them now because of that? Nonsense, but maybe someone else has some real arguments?

1 minute ago, Opl said:

So you  consider Trump's show off of self confidence as proofs of competence, and boldness ?  Trump is the epitome of what the US has always managed to hide to the world so far. It is a nation that has always brutally put its interest first and imposed its principles because of its power. Trump is a bad thing for a good, Europeans and their partners should open their eyes

  

 

Because other countries do not "put its interest first"? Do tell. And other countries, to the best of their ability - do not "impose their principals" (whatever this means)? All ears.

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So in short: we need the US because of WW2.

Nonsense, but maybe someone else has some real arguments?

 

That's not what was posted. Nonsense would apply to your spin, and the feigned ignorance as to US role with regard to Europe.

 

Just now, stevenl said:

So in short: we need the US because of WW2.

Nonsense, but maybe someone else has some real arguments?

Really, thats how bad I manage to explain myself? 

 

?

 

No, it is not because of WW2, it is because we need each other in the future, and it proves we give each other a strong needed alliance, and make each other better. Usa have everything to loose by going to strong on their allies. Well, if you think we are the ones who are going to loose, I can tell you, everything happens in China at the moment, in Iran, and other nations, who Usa see as enimies. 

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Because other countries do not "put its interest first"? Do tell. And other countries, to the best of their ability - do not "impose their principals" (whatever this means)? All ears.

Trump has the closed face of the stubborn guy but who signs and cowardly withdraws his signature.  Well, with this completely predictable turnaround the entire planet can no longer have the slightest doubt about the total lack of American credibility. R.I.P. the diplomatic power made in the USA, and that will survive Trump. We will have to strengthen the EU, accept China as the new global center of gravity, and work directly with US states on a case-by-case basis.

Love him or hate him. Trump got this part right about Trudeau: "Very dishonest & weak."

 

 

 

I think this thread is being hijacked to the wrong debate. The issue is not about the respective merits of USA and the EU (or other countries). The US needs the EU and the EU needs the US, in particular with respect to other countries that have been cited. Only naive people can think that any country, including the USA, has ever done anything else than selfishly supporting its own interrest, possibly sometimes  by tricky ways. All of them! The rest is just fairy tales

The USA are just as respectable as the others, and there several good reasons to respect this country, as mentioned before.

The problem is that a moron has been elected in the USA, and he wants to impose his big gob policy to other countries. Of course no other country wants to obey a moron.  That's the issue. Not if one or another country is good or bad, fair or unfair, etc... 

4 minutes ago, Opl said:

Trump has the closed face of the stubborn guy but who signs and cowardly withdraws his signature.  Well, with this completely predictable turnaround the entire planet can no longer have the slightest doubt about the total lack of American credibility. R.I.P. the diplomatic power made in the USA, and that will survive Trump. We will have to strengthen the EU, accept China as the new global center of gravity, and work directly with US states on a case-by-case basis.

 

So basically, you dodged the questioned, and went on ranting. Your original complaint was about the US, rather than Trump. The US was supposedly putting its interests first, and "imposing its principals" (still not clear about that one) - are there any countries not doing the same? Or is it more a matter of their ability to advance their interests? Is China, which you herald as the "new global center of gravity", different?

 

Many of the posters commenting here, whether opposing or supporting Trump, seem to emulate the way he reacts to the world.

 

I place a somewhat stronger trust in both the long standing relations between countries, and their leaderships ability to transcend emotional outbursts. In fact, that was one of the strong comments against Trump aired in this context (I think by Macron, but could be wrong). And, of course, whether posters like to acknowledge it or not, all countries got interests, and all put them first. I doubt most European countries' best interests involve ditching the US or getting in bed with China/Russia.

18 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Really, thats how bad I manage to explain myself? 

 

?

 

No, it is not because of WW2, it is because we need each other in the future, and it proves we give each other a strong needed alliance, and make each other better. Usa have everything to loose by going to strong on their allies. Well, if you think we are the ones who are going to loose, I can tell you, everything happens in China at the moment, in Iran, and other nations, who Usa see as enimies. 

Yes, that is how badly you explained yourself.

 

Your new 'reasons why we need the US' are just babble, 'we need eachother in the future', 'it proves we give eachother a strong needed alliance', 'make eachother better'.

 

Thanks, but have anything more solid? 

12 hours ago, Watchful said:

Finally I believe people are understanding just how furious Trump is with tariffs and protectionist policies of US trading partners.

 

The EU argument has always been: "Well if you made things at a reasonable price, we would buy."

 

Sounds good until you learn that US made vehicles get hit with a 25% tax upon entering the EU.    25%!!!!! 

 

Now all of those VW's, BMW's, Audi's, Mercedes, etc come into the US with a whopping 2.5% tax.  Let's just see how many will be sold in the US once Trump enacts a reciprocal 25% tax.

 

Canada is no better. They tax the hell out of US imports.  Trump has offered zero tariffs on Canada as long as they reciprocate.  Canada can't have that.  Must protect their famers and unions, ya know!

 

The steel and aluminum tariffs are just a warning shot to reduce these tariff or ... you can expect a lot more!

 

The threats of retaliation are empty. Everyone taxes the hell out of US made goods. Even Thailand just hammers US cigarettes, bourbon, wine, etc. The threat that: "OK, we'll then trade with China!"  

 

Good luck selling anything, but raw materials to China. 

"Sounds good until you learn that US made vehicles get hit with a 25% tax upon entering the EU.    25%!!!!! "

 

Where did you get those numbers?

 

"The standard tariff for importing cars to the U.S. is 2.5 percent of their value. For pickup trucks and commercial vans, the tariff is a whopping 25 percent. Individual European countries don’t charge import duties, but the European Union charges a flat rate of 10 percent on imported automobiles."    https://www.caranddriver.com/features/free-trade-cars-why-a-useurope-free-trade-agreement-is-a-good-idea-feature

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, that is how badly you explained yourself.

 

Your new 'reasons why we need the US' are just babble, 'we need eachother in the future', 'it proves we give eachother a strong needed alliance', 'make eachother better'.

 

Thanks, but have anything more solid? 

Well, cheers, have one for me to! Good luck with working tomorow ?

The picture that say's it all...

 

Wonder if the July 13 trip is still on???

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

So basically, you dodged the questioned, and went on ranting. Your original complaint was about the US, rather than Trump. The US was supposedly putting its interests first, and "imposing its principals" (still not clear about that one) - are there any countries not doing the same? Or is it more a matter of their ability to advance their interests? Is China, which you herald as the "new global center of gravity", different?

 

Many of the posters commenting here, whether opposing or supporting Trump, seem to emulate the way he reacts to the world.

 

I place a somewhat stronger trust in both the long standing relations between countries, and their leaderships ability to transcend emotional outbursts. In fact, that was one of the strong comments against Trump aired in this context (I think by Macron, but could be wrong). And, of course, whether posters like to acknowledge it or not, all countries got interests, and all put them first. I doubt most European countries' best interests involve ditching the US or getting in bed with China/Russia.

 

Did Trump sign  or "un-sign" for the US or not? In the name of the American people, or not?

Did Trump repeal Obama's legacy as POTUS or as individual?   

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Well, cheers, have one for me to! Good luck with working tomorow ?

So you're making hollow claims without anything to back them up.

9 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

Did Trump sign  or "un-sign" for the US or not? In the name of the American people, or not?

Did Trump repeal Obama's legacy as POTUS or as individual?   

 

I think everyone agrees Trump is POTUS. Whether Trump faithfully represents the American people can be debated. A couple of years ago, Obama was POTUS and signed things. Was this a different America or a different POTUS?

 

IMO, most world leaders understand Trump is not a permanent fixture, whereas the US is. I don't see the willingness exhibited by some posters, to toss away relations with the US over Trump this or Trump that, reflected much in world leaders' take on things.

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think everyone agrees Trump is POTUS. Whether Trump faithfully represents the American people can be debated. A couple of years ago, Obama was POTUS and signed things. Was this a different America or a different POTUS?

 

IMO, most world leaders understand Trump is not a permanent fixture, whereas the US is. I don't see the willingness exhibited by some posters, to toss away relations with the US over Trump this or Trump that, reflected much in world leaders' take on things.

Maybe you're right, but Trump's contempt and disdain for EU, and European nations, strangely resonate with Putin's agenda. And yes it's an other game change. 

 

If "trump" is reelected and good odds he will be the traditional allies will understandably give up permanently on looking to the USA for leadership. America alone indeed.

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3 minutes ago, Opl said:

Maybe you're right, but Trump's contempt and disdain for EU, and European nations, strangely resonate with Putin's agenda. And yes it's an other game change. 

 

 

I agree. But then, if Putin's agenda is known, and Trump's actions promote it (irrespective if by design or not) - Europe's interests ought to be not falling for Trump's trolling.

Putin must be so proud of you Donald you are his best agent ever to split the USA away from Europe Mexico and Canada all in one day party time in Moscow you thin skinned piece of censored censored censored gone soon pray to god!

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

If "trump" is reelected and good odds he will be the traditional allies will understandably give up permanently on looking to the USA for leadership. America alone indeed.

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Good odds Trump will be reelected? Somehow doubt that. And even then, a permanent rift between the US and Europe is still not a forgone conclusion.

39 minutes ago, stevenl said:

So you're making hollow claims without anything to back them up.

Please, did I do something mean to you? 

 

I can back up anything, but when other people know what im talking about, why bother explaining to you? 

 

What is your problem? 

23 minutes ago, Opl said:

Maybe you're right, but Trump's contempt and disdain for EU, and European nations, strangely resonate with Putin's agenda. And yes it's an other game change. 

 

Do not know where you get  this from

 but Trump's contempt and disdain for EU, and European nations,

  He does not show contempt or disdain.  he simply does not bow to them is that a fault or a strengh.? In my eyes it is strengh.