Problem with condo purchase - funds already in Thailand!!

[moontang]

27 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

Non-B, marriage extension, out of work for 18 months. Trying to send only $1000 USD to my brother in the states. "Can not" was the answer at all 5 branches I tried where I have accounts. Finally had to go Western Union and get screwed.

 

Your apparent experience is the exception, not the rule.

 

No, I am not a preferred customer at CIMB, so I didn't try there.

three transfers, 300,000 each...Two at Bangkok Bank Chiang Mai, and one in UTH.....showed up in my brokerage account less than six hours later..She had me deposit the cash, first.  Took an extra five minutes.

[bizboi]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Have never had a work permit and have sent 4 million baht overseas, plus other amounts from time to time.

which bank did you use an what were charges/int rates like?

[bizboi]

3 minutes ago, moontang said:

three transfers, 300,000 each...Two at Bangkok Bank Chiang Mai, and one in UTH.....showed up in my brokerage account less than six hours later..She had me deposit the cash, first.  Took an extra five minutes.

was that transfers out of the country? what about exchange rates?

[moontang]

8 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Have never had a work permit and have sent 4 million baht overseas, plus other amounts from time to time.

yep, read my posts..And a friend sent back 9 million in one shot in February...no WP...but did have to pay 18,000 THB....avoid bank employees, who quote laws they know nothing about.....usually it is the ones with poor English.  Also how you present yourself makes a huge difference in the land of style, not substance.

Edited June 12, 2018 by moontang

[moontang]

10 minutes ago, bizboi said:

was that transfers out of the country? what about exchange rates?

transfers to USA....exchange rate locked in at time of transfer.  Bangkok Bank TT Sell rate....if you pay 1150, instead of 300...all receive fees are covered, but my bank only charges 20 US, so better to pay them...saves 220 THB.

 

Transfers inside the country are free at several thaibanks...online.

Edited June 12, 2018 by moontang

[xylophone]

14 minutes ago, bizboi said:

which bank did you use an what were charges/int rates like?

At the time it was SCB and as I recall charges were minimal. 

 

And as Moontang has said, avoid the everyday bank staff as they know sweet FA.

[JonnyF]

4 hours ago, bizboi said:

thats useful so if i speak to KBank they will look at my account and issue a certificate? you see Ive been out of Thailand since 2015 and have sent back money from China. I mean the thing is you need a work permit to open a bank account so they KNOW Ive been working there!!

When I did it the sending bank had to clearly state the purpose of funds i.e purchase condo xyz at xxxxxxx baht on the transaction. So that you can prove it’s the same money when you sell it. 

 

It was specific wording that I had to inform my uk bank to state PRIOR to transfer. Don’t think you can get the certificate retrospectively without that.

[moontang]

i just sent through bk k bank new york...no extra instructions, which I don't see how that could be done on that type of transaction.  Got the FET, which shows the am on t sent in USD.  Maybe it is different if sending it as Baht.  Form letter is in Thai, but I can see the USE amount.  And four years ago, the seller wanted to understate the price by a third, so the letter actually showed less than was sent.

[inThailand]

Fees to move money out and in should be considered. But isn't the condo ownership, selling it and in case of divorce take front and center in making any decisions?

[laochef]

I have used both BBL and SCB to transfer money out. to UK, Sweden and Laos.

No problem what so ever. I just stated that it was for "Education and Living expenses"

on the form, that goes to the Central Bank. This was in the amount of THB 2M+, each transfer.

Also, as another poster has stated, taking 2M out to a neighboring country (DECLARED at Customs), and then transfer back is no problem (except you need an account in the neighboring country, another story,,, but still quite easy...). Of course you can also declare the cash, upon your return to TH, at Customs, and get a Certificate.

[scuba2day]

The difference between the buying and selling exchange rates, at Bangkok Bank for example, would be less than 1%. Plus add the total transfer fees of 5-6000 baht.  It is likely the Thai Baht to GBP buying rate at the UK bank is the problem.

So, look into exchanging the funds to GBP here in Thailand and sending the funds in GBP to your UK account. Perhaps need to open a GBP foreign currency account at your bank here in Thailand in order to transfer GBP to the UK. The funds would then be converted from GBP to Thai Baht at your Thai bank when the funds are send back to Thailand.  

[Robert24]

You shouldn't loose more than 50 BP (or about 10,000 baht on 2m baht FX). I would put it in your name and transfer funds in-/out- of country.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[seancbk]

One way to relatively easily to repatriate money out of Thailand and not pay bank charges is to offer your visiting friends a form of Hawala exchange.

Before your friends visit Thailand they deposit an agreed amount into your bank account in your home county.  When they get here you give them the equivalent in baht at the agreed rate.  If they need more baht while they are here, you give it to them and when they get home they deposit the agreed amount into your overseas account. 

If you have a lot of friend coming here this can work quite well.   Last week I had 7 friends visiting from Australia and 2 from Singapore who I could have offered this to.  This week I have 3 friends coming from HK and another from the UK, again all people I could offer an exchange service too. 

Of course they need to be people you trust, although if they are friends then one would hope you can.  
 

[Pdavies99]

OK, for Instance...to transfer money out of Thailand, in general you have to demonstrate it is funds that originated from abroad or taxed Thai earnings etc.

 

Krung Thai bank for example charge 1400 Baht to transfer to UK, ask for a sterling transfer to avoid terrible Sterling rates in UK, then many UK banks charge nothing for overseas transfers, making sure they also transfer in Sterling.

 

The rate Krung Thai offer for a transfer in sterling is generally 1-2 baht lower than current exchange rate, so in all your charges will be about 1400 baht plus say 2 baht per pound exchange rate loss.

 

I have done exactly this last March 2018.

 

Best Paul

Edited June 13, 2018 by Pdavies99

[Khun Jean]

The question that is still open is why not just put it on your wifes name.

It is bought while being married so when a divorce happens the split is 50/50.

Not any different then when it is in your name.

 

[wolf81]

Using TransferWise you might be able to cut the costs likely.

 

For example sending 13k (~340.000 Baht) from my bank in The Netherlands to my bank in Thailand cost me a little bit less than 4.000 Baht. With TransferWise you will not use the interbank exchange rate (which is imo just theft), but instead use the real actual exchange rate. You only pay a fee based on the amount of money you sent.

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, Khun Jean said:

The question that is still open is why not just put it on your wifes name.

It is bought while being married so when a divorce happens the split is 50/50.

Not any different then when it is in your name.

 

You make a very good point Khun Jean!

[hugh mckee]

1 hour ago, Pdavies99 said:

OK, for Instance...to transfer money out of Thailand, in general you have to demonstrate it is funds that originated from abroad or taxed Thai earnings etc.

 

Krung Thai bank for example charge 1400 Baht to transfer to UK, ask for a sterling transfer to avoid terrible Sterling rates in UK, then many UK banks charge nothing for overseas transfers, making sure they also transfer in Sterling.

 

The rate Krung Thai offer for a transfer in sterling is generally 1-2 baht lower than current exchange rate, so in all your charges will be about 1400 baht plus say 2 baht per pound exchange rate loss.

 

I have done exactly this last March 2018.

 

Best Paul

2 baht per pound exchange rate loss is 5%....that is a massive amount to lose, not even UK banks charge as much as that, 5% is too much and has to be cheaper options of sending large amounts of baht back to UK?

[moontang]

Bangkok Bank rates show the buy sell on TT less than 2% apart...so you would lose less than 1% going back to the UK...plus 300 THB + your bank's fees at home.  More misinformation than usual on this topic.

[moontang]

and that is for the GBP...USD is half of that  <1%, and <.5% one way.  ANd they do convert for you and write on the receipt, when you make the transfer..there is no mystery on outbound transfers.

[scuba2day]

5 hours ago, wolf81 said:

Using TransferWise you might be able to cut the costs likely.

 

For example sending 13k (~340.000 Baht) from my bank in The Netherlands to my bank in Thailand cost me a little bit less than 4.000 Baht. With TransferWise you will not use the interbank exchange rate (which is imo just theft), but instead use the real actual exchange rate. You only pay a fee based on the amount of money you sent.

You cannot send Thai Baht with TransferWise, only receive.

You would not be able to get the Foreign Exchange letter which would be needed for the condo purchase.

While TransferWise has a better exchange rate, they also have a fee which amounts to almost the same as the saving on the exchange rate.

The difference sending 46900 GBP (~2,000,000 Baht) using

Trasferwise and sending a wire transfer to a Bangkok Bank account, for example, would only be 3000 Baht.

In the case sending 13000 USD, it is 800Baht cheaper with a wire transfer. Less the fee the bank charges to send the wire transfer($15-$30) it is basically the same.

Edited June 13, 2018 by scuba2day

[GOLDBUGGY]

On 6/12/2018 at 2:42 PM, Peterw42 said:

The OP is correct, and its widely known,  for a foreigner to own a condo the money needs to come from outside Thailand. In the OPs case he will need to send it out and back in.

Wait a minute. Now I am confused. 

 

I thought that to send this amount of money out of Thailand you needed a FEC to do so. I mean isn't the whole idea based on you buying a Condo with money brought from outside of the country, and thus getting a FEC, so that when you sell you can also send this amount of money back out again with this FEC? 

 

Isn't there also exceptions since this money was earned in Thailand but on a legal Work Permit? I would think that if the OP could prove this to the bank he should be good to go??? 

[GOLDBUGGY]

On 6/12/2018 at 3:58 PM, bizboi said:

Whilst i appreciate that the amount of the fees is an on topic point =- what i really want to know is does anyone know another way of doing this - if i had a photocopy of my work permit from 2011 to 2015 and a bank statement showing the money was legitimately earned in thailand would it make a difference - would a trip with my wife to talk to the appropriate govt department yield any results? A i said i dont fit into the tourist who’s only been on holiday or the worker with a work permit category that they allow for - im an ex worker with a work permit who is married to a thai and still has savings there because he will return in 5 or 6 years.

I agree with your way of thinking  and I would venture to say you can and that there is another way.

 

I thought there was exceptions when you earned this money in Thailand with a Legal Work Permit. Gosh! You can get a Bank Mortgage or Car Loan with that Work Permit, so I don't see why you can't buy a Condo with it also. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

On 6/12/2018 at 4:04 PM, bizboi said:

is this called FX  by the banks - to move the money out then back in?

I think it used to be called a Tor Tor Sam. But now I think they call it a "Foreign Exchange Certificate: or FEC for short, Basically it is a letter from the bank stating that a certain amount if funds came from outside the country. But there may be exceptions for  Foreign Workers with valid Work Permits, like you.  

[GOLDBUGGY]

On 6/12/2018 at 4:17 PM, JonnyF said:

I had a similar issue to the OP,  wanted to use money from my Thai salary for a condo and then found out about this rule.

 

However, I was told that I was able to buy the condo with funds earned here. The only catch was that if/when I sold it, I would be unable to send funds back out again because I didn't have the certificate from the banks to show the funds coming into Thailand. As a foreigner working here you can send a % of you salary home every year but once you are no longer working I was told it is more difficult to do that i.e. you can't easily send money home in 10 years time that you earned last year, especially if you are no longer working on a B visa with work permit etc.

 

I wanted the option to send the money back in the future but as the pound was sliding I chose not to send the money back immediately and brought over the same amount again at 54.6 THB to the pound and got the certificate. Fortunately the pound did in fact start to tank fairly soon after that so I sent a portion of the total amount back to the UK over the next 18 months and actually made money out of the rule, but that was 50% luck and 50% judgement, a lucky guess. So just check the rule, if you're not too worried about sending the cash back later you might be able to buy it (but personally I'd recommend getting the certificate).

Now that finally makes sense!

 

But since you were still livng in Thailand and not working here anymore, then couldn't you just keep track of all the money you bring into Thailand to live off of, and get a FEC from that money? 

 

I think that if I was the OP I would just put the Condo in his wifes name, as even on Divorce Day he should get the same and 50% back no matter who owns this on paper. 

[moontang]

Keep doing things the hard way folks...join the ranks of grey expats that get up at five to do 90 day reports..and personally sign for their pension checks at BKK Banks...sheesh.  Like I said, under 10,000 USD does not need any special permission..but if all you have is a TOurist Visa...you likely have other problems.  They have all been briefed on money laundering...enough to make them dangerous, along with tendencies to make up rules that they don't know.

 

I did Land Office, MEA, lunch, and Immigration way across town, and back in my Huai Kwang hotel by 14:30....and I did buy with money I u-turned....and profited from that.  FET was hardly scrutenized.

Edited June 14, 2018 by moontang

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

Keep doing things the hard way folks...join the ranks of grey expats that get up at five to do 90 day reports..and personally sign for their pension checks at BKK Banks...sheesh.  Like I said, under 10,000 USD does not need any special permission..but if all you have is a TOurist Visa...you likely have other problems.  They have all been briefed on money laundering...enough to make them dangerous, along with tendencies to make up rules that they don't know.

 

I did Land Office, MEA, lunch, and Immigration way across town, and back in my Huai Kwang hotel by 14:30....and I did buy with money I u-turned....and profited from that.  FET was hardly scrutenized.

And it was you who suggested that his wife buy it and the outcome would be the same if a divorce...…...sound thinking, but no-one seems to be listening??

[Khun Jean]

I used to live half year in The Netherlands and half year in Thailand.

Money was earned in both countries but transferring from Thailand was difficult.

So i just got an ATM card which can be used international (VISA logo) and a daily limit of 100.000 baht.

So the whole discussion about sending money abroad and back is not necessary.

Buy the condo put it in your wifes name. If sold then put it on a Thai bank account and when in your own country use the ATM to extract the money. Even a few million only just takes a week or two.

 

 

[moontang]

49 minutes ago, xylophone said:

And it was you who suggested that his wife buy it and the outcome would be the same if a divorce...…...sound thinking, but no-one seems to be listening??

no, that wasn't me, who stated put it in the wife's name.  Wives have been known to borrow against properties they own...divorce or not.  Also, I have been told quite a few times that many marriages aren't even recognized, unless you have run the entire bureaucratic gambit.

 

BTW, code in my bank book shows "FTT" for foreign wire remittance, as opposed to just "DEP."  So that is another piece of ammo.  I actually had about five bank books going back 13 years, with a few million in remittances...not necessary, under 10,000.  And that was the first person I talked to at a semi-main branch in CM....didn't have to go shop the banks for some kind of grey area service...and while I am not an expert on this, I will stick to my story 3 x 300K, this year, two different banks, two different provinces...no pom-pom.

[xylophone]

57 minutes ago, moontang said:

no, that wasn't me, who stated put it in the wife's name.

Sorry...…...senior moment, it was Khun Jean, but still a good idea IMO.