How it plays out, for the end game...

[elgenon]

15 hours ago, mduras01 said:

I would make sure I was financially secure. Cost of living is only going up. 

 

I would make sure I had insurance for as long as insurance allows. 

 

I would make sure I had an "anchor"--a reliable wife, son/daughter, companion. Plenty of solid middle/upper class Thais. 

 

It would terrify me not to have an anchor, or someone to love me in my old years, or be strapped for cash when medical expenses mount. But to each their own.

 

 

My friend, a retired pilot, had an "anchor" that he treated very well (bought her a house) as well as her son who has a disability. He stressed she was hi-so. Well, he developed Alzheimer's and she took her son and fled. Sad that things are not always what they appear to be. Good luck to you.

[paulhen]

19 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

Yet another one spreading the myth of quality health care in Canada..... 

[micmichd]

19 hours ago, BritTim said:

I will be honest that I have zero knowledge about Canadian care homes. I have seen several each in the UK, US and Thailand. I would note that my sister for several years worked in a UK nursing home, and I had a great aunt who owned (a different) one. At one point, together with a friend, we were considering a marketing program for retirees needing 24 hour care, advising on Thai options. The quality of the care in the Thai nursing homes is just so much superior. This is due both to the far higher staff to resident ratios, as well as the general attitude of the Thais towards the elderly. I can appreciate that those entitled to free residence in a nursing home in their home countries might have reason to make that choice. If needing to pay, I strongly recommend Thailand. The only negative in terms of quality of life could be distance from loving relatives.

I'm German, and I would rather die then end  up in agony. In German nursing homes you're treated like shit, and so are the nurses over there. 24/7 care costs more than 4,000 EUR p.m. there. Hardly anyone can afford this, so the welfare offices have to pay. It would be cheaper for German welfare offices to pay for care in Thailand, but the laws had to be changed for that. At the moment, I would highly recommend a private insurance - and not pay any taxes to Germany.

[micmichd]

20 hours ago, BritTim said:

I am assuming that you are financially secure, though being retired in Thailand probably requires less in the way of income that in most Western countries.

 

The main thing to plan for is health insurance.

 

In many ways, Thailand is ideal for the very old. If you need to enter a care home, the quality of the nursing and other support you will receive is far superior to what you will receive in Western countries, at lower cost. In that case, I would also expect them to deal with your immigration formalities for you.

 

If you are frail, but still able to live independently, 90-day reporting ought to be possible online. Once a year, you would need to put in an appearance at immigration. However, a good agent can arrange paperwork, transport and priority queuing that will reduce the stress involved.

Just an example: 

https://www.sichasia.com/rates 

Guess that's affordable.

[asiaexpat]

As one of those spending my last years of life in Thailand I believe doing so depends on ones situation. If one's situation is like mine then Thailand is a great option, if not consider the following:

 

1. Elderly foreigners need a trusted family support network that can help with transportation, financial and medical issues.

 

2. One must have either a large bank account or very good health insurance.

 

3. If a care home is needed, visit many to see the real conditions. Thailand has many options from luxury resort care homes to

inexpensive group homes. Many are very good, some not. But most are superior to US nursing homes and offer quality physical, mental and dietary care including western food.

 

 

[micmichd]

20 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

OP is asking for himself, not for his mum. And not all Western countries have welfare like Canada.

[seancbk]

32 minutes ago, micmichd said:

I'm German, and I would rather die then end  up in agony. In German nursing homes you're treated like shit, and so are the nurses over there. 24/7 care costs more than 4,000 EUR p.m. there. Hardly anyone can afford this, so the welfare offices have to pay. It would be cheaper for German welfare offices to pay for care in Thailand, but the laws had to be changed for that. At the moment, I would highly recommend a private insurance - and not pay any taxes to Germany.

 

That is a bit cheaper than my mother pays for her 24/7 live-in care in the UK.  She's paying about 4500 Euro a month, plus all the extra food and utilities that her live in care use.  

She doesn't have any insurance to cover it so she's paying out of her own pocket.  

Unfortunately she would never agree to being moved from her house in the UK to Thailand, despite having lived over 25 years in Hong Kong and having spent many holidays in Thailand going back 30 years or so.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

53 minutes ago, paulhen said:

Yet another one spreading the myth of quality health care in Canada..... 

 

Yes. One like you always comes along to bash the greatest healthcare in the world.

 

Very curious as I have seen many posts by British expats (so lets forget Canadians for a moment) on this very forum who cry like babies and set up go fund me campaign at the very first sign something goes wrong. They are all on the first flight home to Mama NHS because Thai healthcare seems so "affordable".

 

You guys are hilarious with your hypocrisies. 

 

 

[Maradona 10]

20 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

Completely agree, god forbid ending up in a 'care home' here. It's actually outrageous to suggest anything here will be better than what is in the West, albeit at obscene prices.

[gamini]

20 hours ago, BritTim said:

I am assuming that you are financially secure, though being retired in Thailand probably requires less in the way of income that in most Western countries.

 

The main thing to plan for is health insurance.

 

In many ways, Thailand is ideal for the very old. If you need to enter a care home, the quality of the nursing and other support you will receive is far superior to what you will receive in Western countries, at lower cost. In that case, I would also expect them to deal with your immigration formalities for you.

 

If you are frail, but still able to live independently, 90-day reporting ought to be possible online. Once a year, you would need to put in an appearance at immigration. However, a good agent can arrange paperwork, transport and priority queuing that will reduce the stress involved.

90 day reporting can be done by anyone for you. You are also wrong about the need to put in an appearance at the immigration department. The rules about this now been changed. You will see clearly on the bottom of the Form that you have to appear in person unless you are incapacitated. Another option is to extend your visa for three months at a time simply by getting a doctors certificate and having someone go there for you. This would only apply if you are very old. The immigration officer would see Your age on the form. 

Presently I am getting on for 90 and once a year someone takes me to the immigration department In his car and An immigration officer comes and takes a photograph of me in the car. Knowing your Age they are very co-operative and have seldom had to wait more than 15 minute for the Visa. I have found in my old age in Thailand that the people here are very kind and considerate to elderly people, much more so than in Western countries. If you don't have insurance and use government hospital Like I do. They are not expensive and far cheaper than having insurance when you are elderly which can run into hundreds and thousands of baht. It's also very easy to get a caregiver who can look after you. If you employ Burmese or a hill tribe person. They can be quite cheap.

 

[smotherb]

5 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

As far as taking care of old people the Filipino's do a better job of it then the Thais.

I believe that is true. So, my old age plan is to leave Thailand for the Philippines.

 

Those of you who are not married to a Thai, or otherwise unwilling to leave Thailand, may benefit from the PI.

 

[gamini]

I am nearly 90 and I am treated much better here  than in Western countries. Thais  are always friendly and helpful. My wife and I can no longer drive and I have many Thai and expat friends Who are only too willing To take me to the hospital, to Restaurants and shopping. I have a portable electric wheelchair Small enough to put in the car. I can go to all the shopping centres and do my own shopping. I use government hospitals which are cheap and I get my medicine from the wholesale Chinese pharmacies. I have a caregiver at a very reasonable price. Something I could never afford in a western country.

A decent climate and good and cheap food. I live far far better than I could in a Western country

[bkk6060]

4 minutes ago, gamini said:

I am nearly 90 and I am treated much better here  than in Western countries. Thais  are always friendly and helpful. My wife and I can no longer drive and I have many Thai and expat friends Who are only too willing To take me to the hospital, to Restaurants and shopping. I have a portable electric wheelchair Small enough to put in the car. I can go to all the shopping centres and do my own shopping. I use government hospitals which are cheap and I get my medicine from the wholesale Chinese pharmacies. I have a caregiver at a very reasonable price. Something I could never afford in a western country.

A decent climate and good and cheap food. I live far far better than I could in a Western country

Hey, good for you still being active at 90. Nice to hear some good people are assisting you.

Take care.

[NancyL]

There is no age at which you are able to stop doing 90 day reports or annual extensions.  However, as mentioned, someone else can do the 90 day reports for you and Imm. is cooperative about having someone help you with the annual extensions if you're elderly or infirm.  

 

However, sometimes elderly people go on overstay due to dementia, illness or just plain cussedness.  Used to be they could do a border hop, pay the max 20,000 baht fine and start over again.  No so anymore with a long overstay.  Usually they don't get into trouble until they develop a medical problem and have to go into long-term care.  Now the nursing homes/assisted living facilities won't accept a new resident on overstay, even if they have the ability to pay.  A few will, if there is a plan in place for them to return to their home country soon.  Yes, I've helped guys in their 80s to repatriate because of long overstay and the unwillingness of a care facility to accept them long-term.  

 

Since the change in the overstay rules, Chiang Mai immigration visits the care facilities periodically and checks on the visa status of the residents.  Some were on "defacto" medical extensions prior to the change in the overstay policy when actually they were on long-term overstay.  Those residents are permitted to stay, but they and anyone who is at the facility on a "medical extension" and not a retirement or marriage extension isn't permitted to leave the grounds, even to go out to lunch with friends or on the weekly shopping trip with the other residents.  This makes them essentially prisoners of the assisted living center for the rest of their life.

[CanuckThai]

It's interesting and informative to sift through some of the experiences, opinions and suggestions so far.  

 

I posted the topic with no specific national social resources specified, as we all have access to various healthcare/social services back in our home countries.  If we decide to be in Thailand, we have to prepare/plan for here, with the resources available here,  discover/share what viable/desirable options are available to us, and what hurdles to expect.

 

Thanks...

[NancyL]

It should be pointed out, too, that while one can have good care at an assisted living facility in Thailand for under U.S. $2000 per month, you still have to plan for medical care for stroke, heart attack, accidents (yes, they can happen even while at a care facility).  While health insurance is good, often there are too many pre-existing condition exclusions for oldsters.  The figure of having 10 million baht in the bank here is a good recommendation.  And to have it in the bank HERE, where it's accessible, instead of tied up overseas where it won't be easy to access if you're in a coma in a Thai hospital.  Here, the Thai banks will release funds from someone's account directly to pay hospitals.  Overseas banks won't and a person can end up being transferred to a gov't hospital and receiving substandard care if their overseas money can't be released because they aren't able to give instructions.

[ChrisKC]

6 hours ago, poyai111 said:

Coming to terms with one's mortality is not an easy thing. Resign yourself to the inevitable and to delay it for as long as possible by ignoring it, is the Buddhist way to go. A primary issue is one's state of health, physically and mentally. I am now 74 and am as robust in body and mind as I was 40 years ago. Everything works - without exception. Worthy of mention are: 1) follow a strict physical routine at least 3 times a week for both strength and cardio 2) be moderate in your consumption of food and alcohol. Anything to excess is deleterious to your well being 3) love and be loved 4) exercise your brain - read, communicate and be able to make wise decisions 5) show appreciation and it will be returned tenfold 6) have a clean and painless exit plan

Well said!

 

This is a personal thing! It depends on your condition now, your philosophy of and attitude to life and how you deal with problems of daily living now. Old age is not as important as how you actually are in body and mind.

Like Poyai here,  (73 years old) I am perfectly healthy and fit - yes 100% - no issues of any kind! May it continue of course but I have to continue eating nutritionally well, do some decent exercise routine that keeps my vital organs in shape. Ask me how to do this!!  I do up to 300 kms a week on my road bike.  I exercise my brain every day with cryptic crosswords, sudoku and other brain training activities. I love learning about new things. I have just got married and my future has much to offer my fertile imagination.

 

I know of Commercial places in Thailand that offer quality care for the elderly but like everywhere else in the world, there is good and bad, suitable and unsuitable. This is Thailand. You can find someone - not 25 years old but someone mature; someone who will appreciate you helping and supporting her while you can and later she will take care of you. I think there are people on this forum in that situation.

Short of marrying someone, when you needed more support, you could find a retired nurse or someone recommended that would, by simply having a proper home to live in and for B10,000 or more according to circumstances per month, would look after your daily needs.

I think being taken care of in old age or medically challenging times, Thailand is a good place to be. You can keep warm, living expenses will continue to be far cheaper than in most Western Countries, there are many people here who would be ready, willing and able to help you for much less money than would be elsewhere.

 

 

[khunPer]

23 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

I think that depends from where one originates, i.e. I would avoid to be old at a government old-age home in my home country, even I'm from a Scandinavian so-called high welfare country. I fully understand that some would rather wish to be old in LoS, I'm also included in that group of wishful thinkers.

[natway09]

And whilst the Canak's , Brits & others are bitching among  themselves completely losing 

track of the discussion the Thais look after their elderly better (very evident in the villages ) 

 than I have seen in 30 +

countries that I have had the pleasure to be involved with.

Unless you have got citizenship it is imperative that health cover is maintained.

Most old guys (like me) would be in a loving relationship & I know in my case that her family would take care of me well even if she was not around.

Saying that, you need to do some planning not of necessity Canadian style

[GarryP]

There are some really nice posts in this thread, which gives one hope as one advances in years. Luckily for me, visas and 90 day reports are no longer an issue, but as I get older I have started to think more about my future here.  I just hope my health is as good as some of the other members when I hit 70 (genetics seems to play a big role).  

[smotherb]

5 hours ago, elgenon said:

My friend, a retired pilot, had an "anchor" that he treated very well (bought her a house) as well as her son who has a disability. He stressed she was hi-so. Well, he developed Alzheimer's and she took her son and fled. Sad that things are not always what they appear to be. Good luck to you.

Sounds like his anchor was perishable. Sure, you have to have someone who really cares for you and enough money to last. If you have money, you can always hire someone to take care of you; that is until you are no longer able to negotiate such an arrangement.  Then, you are  . . . .ed

[Expatthailover]

On 6/25/2018 at 5:38 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Nonsense.

 

Why on earth would you spend your retirement in Thailand instead of having top class Canadian healthcare that will take care of you?

 

My mom is dirt poor in Canada. I bought her a condo (instead of some Thai tart) and now she gets money from the government, free healthcare and heavily discounted meds if she needs them which she does not as she only eats best quality organic food thanks to free government money.

 

I am so fed up with the "quality" healthcare here (which I get for free through my wife) that I'm going back to Toronto this summer to see real and informed doctors. 

 

This place is not good for old people and I doubt it will get better in the future. By my calculation you'd have to have around 10 million dollars banked in a savings account to have the same quality of life as the average Canadian.

 

 

 

Yet it's that horrible you continue to live here and with one of the locals..my goodness that was big of you. 

So you have a thai wife that allows you to get free healthcare that you avail yourself of yet sneer at its quality.

I assume your wife isnt some 'thai tart'.

Re your mother.

That you bought her a condo means she doesn't need to pay out rent that means she is in a very priviledged position so please dont bang on about how generous etc canada is. Hardly 'dirt poor'.

You seem that consumed with hatred, disdain and cynicism I doubt you'd be happy anywhere.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Expatthailover

[bkk6060]

5 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Yes. One like you always comes along to bash the greatest healthcare in the world.

 

Very curious as I have seen many posts by British expats (so lets forget Canadians for a moment) on this very forum who cry like babies and set up go fund me campaign at the very first sign something goes wrong. They are all on the first flight home to Mama NHS because Thai healthcare seems so "affordable".

 

You guys are hilarious with your hypocrisies. 

 

 

Canada ranks 30th in the world for healthcare.

Maybe you do not understand this??

Edited June 26, 2018 by bkk6060

[theguyfromanotherforum]

44 minutes ago, Expatthailover said:

Yet it's that horrible you continue to live here and with one of the locals..my goodness that was big of you. 

So you have a thai wife that allows you to get free healthcare that you avail yourself of yet sneer at its quality.

I assume your wife isnt some 'thai tart'.

Re your mother.

That you bought her a condo means she doesn't need to pay out rent that means she is in a very priviledged position so please dont bang on about how generous etc canada is. Hardly 'dirt poor'.

You seem that consumed with hatred, disdain and cynicism I doubt you'd be happy anywhere.

 

Actually, you make a good point which while writing my rant I forgot to mention.

 

The biggest expense in Canada would be housing and it's true that if I didn't take care of my mom in that way she would be in much different position. However, I didn't buy her anything luxurious.... just enough so that she can pay condo fees/taxes and the rest she can save and spend on herself.

 

And I was never complaining about the locals. I am  discussing Thai healthcare because in my opinion is a joke. I don't respect it. I don't think it's good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[theguyfromanotherforum]

48 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Canada ranks 30th in the world for healthcare.

Maybe you do not understand this??

 

That's funny. You dug the internet long and hard to find some "list".

 

Let's look at that list and where are some countries are on that list. incidentally, every major Euro whiner on this thread apparently ranks better than Canada.

 

And how cum you forgot to mention Thailand? It's number 47

 

 

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand

[bkk6060]

32 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

That's funny. You dug the internet long and hard to find some "list".

 

Let's look at that list and where are some countries are on that list. incidentally, every major Euro whiner on this thread apparently ranks better than Canada.

 

And how cum you forgot to mention Thailand? It's number 47

 

 

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand

Haha.

Because your claim it is " the greatest healthcare in the world" is so bogus what a joke.

But hey, get back there like you said and get all that great care.  Hopefully, you will not have to wait more then a few weeks for an appt.

?

[ancharee]

6 hours ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Yes. One like you always comes along to bash the greatest healthcare in the world.

 

Very curious as I have seen many posts by British expats (so lets forget Canadians for a moment) on this very forum who cry like babies and set up go fund me campaign at the very first sign something goes wrong. They are all on the first flight home to Mama NHS because Thai healthcare seems so "affordable".

 

You guys are hilarious with your hypocrisies. 

 

 

Go back to your other planet please.

[newnative]

9 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Most people I have met here have no plan for nothing.

 

No health insurance.

No plan if they are incapacitated.

No plan for long term care.

No plan for their death.

No will or trust.

 

These are people that have decent money but generally seem it is all not important.

The most common answer I get is so naive which is: My Embassy will take care of everything.

 

 

 

     Unfortunately, what you say is so true.  And, if you die without a Will, especially in Thailand, you leave a big mess for others to clean up.  

[NancyL]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

     Unfortunately, what you say is so true.  And, if you die without a Will, especially in Thailand, you leave a big mess for others to clean up.  

No actually, it's worse (for you) if you become incapacitated in Thailand without making a plan.  What's worse than not having insurance or money to pay for your continuing care is actually having money, but having it tied up overseas and never trusting anyone enough to share passwords or Power of Attorney or whatever it was you should have done to have made your overseas assets available to take care of you during incapacity in Thailand.  People die here needlessly because of this.

[rickudon]

If you look at life expectancy at age 65 in Thailand you can still expect 15 years. That is only a couple of years less than a typical western country. But that, of course, is an average including all the Thais. Most Thais cannot afford more than the basic government healthcare and quite a few old people would live in sub-standard housing and have a poor diet. I think that a healthy-ish expat at age 65 could expect to beat that as long as alcohol and cigarettes are not his main interests!

 

Maybe at end of life you might lose a year or so due to mounting unaffordable, lower quality healthcare but in that case would your quality of life in those last year or two have been good anywhere? And for most of us those 15 years would have been better quality than in our home countries. And we may be lucky and not have a long lingering death and died at a similar age in any country.

 

Yes, you do need to plan for those last 15-20 years, which maybe your home country government would have helped you with, but with a bit of planning we can have as good if not better life in Thailand than our home country. 

 

Some expats do run for home to get medical treatment, and why not if you can get better/subsidised treatment and a reasonable chance of recovery. But if it is just infirmity through age with no hope of improvement, better to live it out with family and friends in Thailand than a room in a nursing home back in the home country.