Prince William starts Israel visit by honouring Holocaust victims

[bristolboy]

On 6/28/2018 at 8:17 AM, Jingthing said:

You replied to an explicitly deeply Jew hating post with sympathy? SICK. 

But it was not an explicitly jew hating post. Unless you equate disapproval, or even hatred of Israel with Jew hating. Repeatedly when Jews in other countries are attacked on account of the policies of Israel, these attacks are condemned because it is anti-Semitic to hold all Jews responsible for the actions of the nation of Israel. And it is anti-Semitic to attack Jews because of the policy of Israel.  You can't have it both ways. Jews are not Israel  and Israel is not the Jews. 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But it was not an explicitly jew hating post. Unless you equate disapproval, or even hatred of Israel with Jew hating. Repeatedly when Jews in other countries are attacked on account of the policies of Israel, these attacks are condemned because it is anti-Semitic to hold all Jews responsible for the actions of the nation of Israel. And it is anti-Semitic to attack Jews because of the policy of Israel.  You can't have it both ways. Jews are not Israel  and Israel is not the Jews. 

Sorry. You are just wrong. The tone of that post is riddled with Jew hatred. Criticize Israeli policies, sure. But not with such filth. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Jingthing

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Sorry. You are just wrong. The tone of that post is riddled with Jew hatred. Criticize Israeli policies, sure. But not with such filth. 

What specifically? Criticizing "tone" is way too vague.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

What specifically? Criticizing "tone" is way too vague.

It isn't really. 

I don't believe you don't see it as well so I'm not going to even bother to indulge your baiting question.

Another post says left wing Jews criticize Israeli policy. Yes, they do. But they generally wouldn't do so with such toxic filth. 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

It isn't really. 

I don't believe you don't see it as well so I'm not going to even bother to indulge your baiting question.

Another post says left wing Jews criticize Israeli policy. Yes, they do. But they generally wouldn't do so with such toxic filth. 

I don't seen any of the usual markers of anti-semitism in the comment. Nothing about Rothschilds or international media control or George Soros or any conspiracy theory allegations. So it can only be that for you harsh criticism of Israel equals anti-Semtism.

Let's take a look at the comment in question sentence by sentence:

 

"As a Brit, I am disgusted with William for visiting the internment camp that is Israel."

Extremely hyperbolic but anti-Semitic? How 

 

"As for his visit to the holocaust memorial, it's just another chance for evil israel to justify the 'right to return" of the jews, while continuing to both persecute the Palestinians, and continue to steal their land."
In fact it is the case that virtually all of the Israeli political establishment uses the Holocaust to justify Israel's blatantly unjust treatment of the Palestinians. And there is a huge contrast between that and their admittance of Jews to all the rights and privileges that pertain to Israeli citizenship. Had he engaged in Holocaust denial, then it would be a different matter. But he didn't.

 

"The fact that he is also staying at the King David Hotel, which was bombed by jewish activists after the Second World war, is crass beyond belief."

Again, over the top but not anti-Semitic.

 

"Britian should have nothing to do with israel, plain and simple."

Again hyperbole fueled by outrage. People often comment on the hypocrisy of those who condemn Israel but tolerate worse behavior in others. But the fact is that Israel is treated as a close ally and its mistreatment of the Palestinians, while condemned in a pro forma way, are never backed by any concrete actions that would signal genuine opposition.

[jayboy]

2 hours ago, MrMuddle said:

If I am being accused of being anti-Semetic, then I expect that you would think the same of these people ? (see link below). Helpful hint - they are Jewish.
Democratic Israel ? When the choices range from very right wing to highly extremist right wing ?
Accusing protestors of being anti-Semetic, when criticising Israel, is just a pathetic attempt to stifle genuine criticism of a hateful, apartheid regime.

https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/30jewishgroupsbds/

The fact you cannot spell "Semitic" suggests you may not have given your attitude sufficient thought.The comparison of the Israeli state with Nazi Germany and disparagement of the Holocaust are internationally recognized as signs of anti Semitism.This is also recognised by the British Labour Party which is currently having its own struggle with anti Semitism.

 

Your reference to the "Jewish voice for peace" - is not the clincher you seem to imagine since there have always been differing opinions about Israel among Jews.You also display your ignorance since within Israel there is a lively and substantial left wing community.Anti Semites always attempt to excuse their hate and bile by claiming they are only criticizing the State of Israel.However many times it is said that criticism of Israel is legitimate and not anti Semitic, the Jew haters just ignore it.I have seen many attacks on the Israeli Government's current policies which are not anti Semitic.

 

But when disgusting bigots start for example invoking the Holocaust in their hatred, a line has been crossed and we know what kind of scum we are dealing with.

 

 

You will undoubtedly argue that this is an anti-Zionist stance, not anti-semitic, per se. But you might ask yourself why it is Israel (which its enemies are determined to annihilate), of all the countries in the world, that so obsesses you, that so nurtures your hatred? Is it the only place where nasty things happen? Are there no other countries that might be the focus of your wrath?

Edited July 30, 2018 by jayboy

[DeaconJohn]

46 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I don't seen any of the usual markers of anti-semitism in the comment. Nothing about Rothschilds or international media control or George Soros or any conspiracy theory allegations. So it can only be that for you harsh criticism of Israel equals anti-Semtism.

Let's take a look at the comment in question sentence by sentence:

 

"As a Brit, I am disgusted with William for visiting the internment camp that is Israel."

Extremely hyperbolic but anti-Semitic? How 

 

"As for his visit to the holocaust memorial, it's just another chance for evil israel to justify the 'right to return" of the jews, while continuing to both persecute the Palestinians, and continue to steal their land."
In fact it is the case that virtually all of the Israeli political establishment uses the Holocaust to justify Israel's blatantly unjust treatment of the Palestinians. And there is a huge contrast between that and their admittance of Jews to all the rights and privileges that pertain to Israeli citizenship. Had he engaged in Holocaust denial, then it would be a different matter. But he didn't.

 

"The fact that he is also staying at the King David Hotel, which was bombed by jewish activists after the Second World war, is crass beyond belief."

Again, over the top but not anti-Semitic.

 

"Britian should have nothing to do with israel, plain and simple."

Again hyperbole fueled by outrage. People often comment on the hypocrisy of those who condemn Israel but tolerate worse behavior in others. But the fact is that Israel is treated as a close ally and its mistreatment of the Palestinians, while condemned in a pro forma way, are never backed by any concrete actions that would signal genuine opposition.

Spot on.

It's much easier to talk about anti-Semitism than defend Israel directly.

Israel itself keeps making that harder and harder.

[jayboy]

There seems to be a significant degree of ignorance on this subject.To clarify matters I am copying below the internationally accepted working definition of anti Semitism along with examples given as illustrations.

 

 

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

 
The following examples may serve as illustrations:
 
Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country CANNOT BE REGARDED AS ANTI SEMITIC. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.
 
Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
   
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
   
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
   
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
   
• Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
   
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
   
• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
   
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
   
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
   
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
   
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."
   

[HAKAPALITA]

The Arabs laughs their ball off when they got paid for the scubland they didnt want. Then likke the Chinease in HK once the Jewish Folk turned into a place worth living in they said it was stolen.As with HK the Jews n Brits should return as found . Scrublland worth fa.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[jayboy]

[pornprong]

On 7/30/2018 at 12:11 PM, jayboy said:

There seems to be a significant degree of ignorance on this subject.To clarify matters I am copying below the internationally accepted working definition of anti Semitism along with examples given as illustrations.

 

 

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

 
The following examples may serve as illustrations:
 
Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country CANNOT BE REGARDED AS ANTI SEMITIC. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.
 
Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
   
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
   
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
   
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
   
• Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
   
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
   
• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
   
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
   
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
   
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
   
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."
   

Quite a comprehensive list their mate.

Guess the only way left to ever utter anything critical of Israel is to use their own words?

[jayboy]

18 hours ago, pornprong said:

Quite a comprehensive list their mate.

Guess the only way left to ever utter anything critical of Israel is to use their own words?

Perfectly legitimate to use the quote you selected which is not anti Semitic.Furthermore it's absolutely legitimate to attack the state of Israel's policies without falling into anti Semitism.

[bristolboy]

On 7/30/2018 at 12:11 AM, jayboy said:

There seems to be a significant degree of ignorance on this subject.To clarify matters I am copying below the internationally accepted working definition of anti Semitism along with examples given as illustrations.

 

 

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”

 
The following examples may serve as illustrations:
 
Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country CANNOT BE REGARDED AS ANTI SEMITIC. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.
 
Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:

• Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
   
• Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
   
• Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
   
• Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
   
• Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
   
• Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
   
• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
   
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
   
• Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
   
• Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
   
• Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel."
   

Can you please provide some proof that this is the internationally accepted definition of anti-semitism? What internationally recognized body came up with this definition? In fact, it's a definition created by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.

Most of the problem with this definition derives from the follow 2 paragraphs.

 

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
   
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

The second is particularly egregious in its obvious goal to normalize Israeli policy and actions in relation to Palestinians.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Can you please provide some proof that this is the internationally accepted definition of anti-semitism? What internationally recognized body came up with this definition? In fact, it's a definition created by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.

Most of the problem with this definition derives from the follow 2 paragraphs.

 

• Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
   
• Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

The second is particularly egregious in its obvious goal to normalize Israeli policy and actions in relation to Palestinians.

Dude, if the existence of Israel is a racist endeavor, then so are the USA, Brasil, Australia, and so many other nations. But the ever present in all ages Jew haters hiding behind so called innocence of rabid criticism of Israel, only seem to want Israel to stop existing. Not the others. Yes, there is a bloody double standard and those that don't see it are blind. 

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Dude, if the existence of Israel is a racist endeavor, then so are the USA, Brasil, Australia, and so many other nations. But the ever present in all ages Jew haters hiding behind so called innocence of rabid criticism of Israel, only seem to want Israel to stop existing. Not the others. Yes, there is a bloody double standard and those that don't see it are blind. 

Well, I don't think serious historians deny that the USA, Brasil, Australia and lots of other nations were racist endeavors in their founding and deserve to be called out on it. But morally speaking lots of things that were acceptable no longer are. At least in countries that call themselves democracies. But that Israel is currently and unapologetically mistreating Palestinians is undeniable. That Israeli attitudes towards Palestinians and even Arab Israelis are mostly becoming more prejudiced is also undeniable. 

 

The fact is that when one group of people by accident of birth gets favored treatment over another people or peoples, that is discriminatory in itself. And to justify this situation, beliefs inevitably arise among those so favored to justify their privileges. One of the chief beliefs being the inferiority of those disfavored. You're still attached to the old social-democratic Israel that sort of once was. It's gotten a lot darker and lot uglier since, especially since the 67 war and I can't see any dynamic that is going to reverse this trend. Unless Israel's fundamentalist Christian friends are correct and the Messiah will be landing there any day now.

[Jingthing]

Well, I don't think serious historians deny that the USA, Brasil, Australia and lots of other nations were racist endeavors in their founding and deserve to be called out on it. But morally speaking lots of things that were acceptable no longer are. At least in countries that call themselves democracies. But that Israel is currently and unapologetically mistreating Palestinians is undeniable. That Israeli attitudes towards Palestinians and even Arab Israelis are mostly becoming more prejudiced is also undeniable. 
 
The fact is that when one group of people by accident of birth gets favored treatment over another people or peoples, that is discriminatory in itself. And to justify this situation, beliefs inevitably arise among those so favored to justify their privileges. One of the chief beliefs being the inferiority of those disfavored. You're still attached to the old social-democratic Israel that sort of once was. It's gotten a lot darker and lot uglier since, especially since the 67 war and I can't see any dynamic that is going to reverse this trend. Unless Israel's fundamentalist Christian friends are correct and the Messiah will be landing there any day now.

You're not getting my point at all dude. You're suggesting I'm not critical of Israeli policies. That's your projection which isn't true. I'm agreeing that calling the existence of Israel a racist endeavor is indeed antisemitic because it's implied that Israel should have never existed and should be crushed now. Don't be naive about why Israel needed to exist in the first place. It needed to exist because of of toxic Jew hating for thousands of years in the diaspora. Again when people might say the origin of the USA is a racist endeavor its not in the context of suggesting that the USA no longer deserves to exist. That garbage is only directed at Israel. The only Jewish majority nation on earth.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[SheungWan]

On 7/30/2018 at 3:55 AM, DeaconJohn said:

Spot on.

It's much easier to talk about anti-Semitism than defend Israel directly.

Israel itself keeps making that harder and harder.

The only thing spot on here is the meally-mouthed anti-Semitism wrapped up in the 'their fault' bogus excuses. The stink is an echo of what is going on inside the British Labour Party. Once those on the Left give up on the working class as their focus, the temptation is to play in the populist paddling pool and pick up neo-fascist right-wing low-hanging fruit. And now its on their shoes trailing it all across the carpet notwithstanding their protestations. These guys can protest all they want but for all intents and purposes they are in a popular front with the real hard right. Lined up on the same side. The same stinky one playing the same old tunes.

[bristolboy]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You're not getting my point at all dude. You're suggesting I'm not critical of Israeli policies. That's your projection which isn't true. I'm agreeing that calling the existence of Israel a racist endeavor is indeed antisemitic because it's implied that Israel should have never existed and should be crushed now. Don't be naive about why Israel needed to exist in the first place. It needed to exist because of of toxic Jew hating for thousands of years in the diaspora. Again when people might say the origin of the USA is a racist endeavor its not in the context of suggesting that the USA no longer deserves to exist. That garbage is only directed at Israel. The only Jewish majority nation on earth.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Analysis is one thing. Motives another.

[kannot]

On 6/26/2018 at 7:54 PM, Expatthailover said:

When has any member of the british royals made a jot of difference to the affairs of the world.

Jaunt around the world travelling first class all the way at the expense of others.  

Qualifications needed

Permanent fixed smile, wave like a pansy and ability to utter weasel words from dusk till dawn

Has there ever been a more useless ineffective group of inbreds than the british royal family?

Not their fault cap doffers are happy to kow tow and gawp at them I suppose

careful the TV police squad  will have u for  offending any royals worldwide as per Thailands archaic  rules of law

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply reported and removed.

[pornprong]

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Dude, if the existence of Israel is a racist endeavor, then so are the USA, Brasil, Australia, and so many other nations. But the ever present in all ages Jew haters hiding behind so called innocence of rabid criticism of Israel, only seem to want Israel to stop existing. Not the others. Yes, there is a bloody double standard and those that don't see it are blind. 

I think most people would lay off Israel a bit if they simply let Palestine start existing (again).

(BTW - your false equivalency between Israel and the other countries you mention is egregious).

[pornprong]

11 hours ago, SheungWan said:

The only thing spot on here is the meally-mouthed anti-Semitism wrapped up in the 'their fault' bogus excuses. The stink is an echo of what is going on inside the British Labour Party. Once those on the Left give up on the working class as their focus, the temptation is to play in the populist paddling pool and pick up neo-fascist right-wing low-hanging fruit. And now its on their shoes trailing it all across the carpet notwithstanding their protestations. These guys can protest all they want but for all intents and purposes they are in a popular front with the real hard right. Lined up on the same side. The same stinky one playing the same old tunes.

To repeat......

 

Spot on.

It's much easier to talk about anti-Semitism than defend Israel directly.

Israel itself keeps making that harder and harder.