Chiang Rai: Search teams ‘making headway’

[UglyBug]

8 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Perhaps kidnapped

How Much Drivel do we want ? ?

[Vacuum]

3 minutes ago, UglyBug said:

How Much Drivel do we want ? ?

Maybe you should learn how to quote...

[Sir Dude]

I hope it all comes to a positive outcome...but doesn't look good to me as now in day 7 and not much to report really. A very foolish coach indeed.

[Iumentum]

5 minutes ago, sletraveler said:

So sad.  How will you ever get to 12000  enlightened posts.

What is truly sad is remarks like yours. I guess with your approach to a debate it wont be long before you will hit some enlightened number yourself.

Kannot got a point, it makes no sense why people would start to gather around there just to complicate the operation. People simple needs to step aside and let professionals do their job. This mentality of curiosity that so many people posses these days are sickening in my opinion. When accidents happen, move along if you have no actual help to offer, and no your camera isnt helping anyone in the actual situation. 

[UglyBug]

1 hour ago, sammieuk1 said:

Extricating anyone from underground is fraught with danger and very difficult anywhere coordination takes time conditions have improved and hopefully a positive outcome will prevail.   

A Very Sensible Post a change from soo much Drivel....  Hope and Pray ! 

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

Maybe you should learn how to quote...

Agree, you were reacting to another post suggesting a kidnap, and basically calling that drivel.

[4MyEgo]

I sit here and read all the reports, and would hate to be one of the divers, not being able to see where you are going under water, no clear path, can you remember how to get back, is there enough oxygen in your tank, is there any air when you make it through to the otherside, not knowing how long you are going to be under water, or if you have taken the right path. Do they know if the boys are alive, did they get swept down against rocks, if they are alive, how much oxygen is there.

 

While we all pray and hope of a good outcome, we also have to understand how difficult the operation is at all levels, and of course the divers have to look after their own lives, that said there is no guarantee the boys will be found alive, we can only hope, and if they do find them alive, then they have the task of getting them out, how, through the murky waters with oxygen tanks, the way the divers came through, I think not.

 

Hopefully some good news, i.e. they are all found alive and well and the water is receding enough for the rescuers being able to walk them out. Unfortunately I am a realist, call me a pessimist if you like ? 

Edited July 1, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[kannot]

25 minutes ago, sletraveler said:

So sad.  How will you ever get to 12000  enlightened posts.

enlightenment is for the  gullible.

[KiwiKiwi]

1 hour ago, UglyBug said:

What Drivel ! !  ?

 

Why is it drivel?

[kannot]

1 minute ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Why is it drivel?

because he says it is, his praying though apparently isnt

[kevvy]

53 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

I agree. They should stay out of the way!

A Facebook post showed a bunch of Chiang Rai farang bikers meeting at a local coffee shop to go on a "mission" to the cave. 

What for? 

 

They were from chiang rai ties forum ....

quote...from chiang rai ties.forum....

Thanks to all who assisted, donated and attended the ride to Pong Pha, Mae Sai yesterday. We were able to effectively deliver equipment to aid in the rescue of the 13 still trapped inside the cave network. As we had intended, we did not get in the way of the operation directly searching for them all. Our donations were greatly appreciated by the staff we met at the collection point. We did manage quite a lot of equipment at very short notice, one of our Thai ladies took a car to give us more luggage space.

as they said they did not get in the way ...

[janclaes47]

55 minutes ago, jaiyen said:

Its a pathetic sight to see them practicing how to carry a stretcher into a helicopter. Just proves how useless and unprepared some of them are.

Of course you know all that. Or is it that your armchair status just gives you the believe that you know it?

 

I for sure don't know, and I doubt many of the foreigners living in Thailand know, simply because they have never done it.

[Iumentum]

1 hour ago, jaiyen said:

Its a pathetic sight to see them practicing how to carry a stretcher into a helicopter. Just proves how useless and unprepared some of them are.

It might actually show that they are not too cocky to know that no matter how good you are at something, practicing doesnt hurt. Also, this will keep them on guard and prepared for when they might actually be needed. Only a fool would think that he is too good to practice!

Edited July 1, 2018 by Iumentum

[steve73]

33 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I sit here and read all the reports, and would hate to be one of the divers, not being able to see where you are going under water, no clear path, can you remember how to get back, is there enough oxygen in your tank, is there any air when you make it through to the otherside, not knowing how long you are going to be under water, or if you have taken the right path. Do they know if the boys are alive, did they get swept down against rocks, if they are alive, how much oxygen is there.

 

While we all pray and hope of a good outcome, we also have to understand how difficult the operation is at all levels, and of course the divers have to look after their own lives, that said there is no guarantee the boys will be found alive, we can only hope, and if they do find them alive, then they have the task of getting them out, how, through the murky waters with oxygen tanks, the way the divers came through, I think not.

 

Hopefully some good news, i.e. they are all found alive and well and the water is receding enough for the rescuers being able to walk them out. Unfortunately I am a realist, call me a pessimist if you like ? 

Cave divers always leave a guideline as they enter any underwater passage (tied off at regular intervals to prevent currents possibly moving it into an impassable location) - and even more important with low visibility.  This is partly why forward progress is painstakingly slow, as it may involve much backtracking to find the "correct" route through... They usually dive in pairs (buddy).

 

They work on the principal of 1/3rd for their air supply.  1/3rd going in and then backtrack.  Even if there are problems they have twice as much air for the return.

A typical tank is around 15-20 litres in volume, pressurized to around 300 bar (so 5-6,000 litres at normal pressure).  This should last around 90 minutes, giving approximately 30 minutes to get as far as they can, and then go back out.  They may use double tanks providing there is plenty of room, and allow a deeper penetration.

 

The next diver (plus his buddy), should be able to get to the furthest extent much quicker simply by following the guideline, and can progress a little further.

Hopefully, when they reach a reasonably large and safe dry section, they can set it up as a forward base, by bringing in communication, lighting, and new tanks, ready to progress into the next flooded section.

 

A "normally" dry cave such as this would be expected to have just some flooded sections with dry passage in between... It would be unlikely to be flooded over its entire length... but I have no specific info on this particular cave (other than the sketches we've all seen).

 

Any sign of a rising level of any of the flooded section may require them to evacuate the entire cave... but they would leave any forward base set-up ready.

(You can see them setting up a depth gauge in one of the videos in this or another thread).

 

Providing the boys have managed to find some high and dry ground, they should be reasonably safe for much longer whilst awaiting rescue, but if they don't realise the rescue effort going on, they may try (or have already tried) to make their own way back.   This is the worst scenario.

Edited July 1, 2018 by steve73

[KiwiKiwi]

4 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Cave divers always leave a guideline as they enter any underwater passage (tied off at regular intervals to prevent currents possibly moving it into an impassable location) - and even more important with low visibility.  This is partly why forward progress is painstakingly slow, as it may involve much backtracking to find the "correct" route through... They usually dive in pairs (buddy).

 

They work on the principal of 1/3rd for their air supply.  1/3rd going in and then backtrack.  Even if there are problems they have twice as much air for the return.

A typical tank is around 30 litres in volume, pressurized to around 300 bar (so 10,000 litres at normal pressure).  This should last around 90 minutes, giving approximately 30 minutes to get as far as they can, and then go back out.  They may use double tanks providing there is plenty of room, and allow a deeper penetration.

 

The next diver (plus his buddy), should be able to get to the furthest extent much quicker simply by following the guideline, and can progress a little further.

Hopefully, when they reach a reasonably large and safe dry section, they can set it up as a forward base, by bringing in communication, lighting, and new tanks, ready to progress into the next flooded section.

 

A "normally" dry cave such as this would be expected to have just some flooded sections with dry passage in between... It would be unlikely to be flooded over its entire length... but I have no specific info on this particular cave (other than the sketches we've all seen).

 

Any sign of a rising level of any of the flooded section may require them to evacuate the entire cave... but they would leave any forward base set-up ready.

(You can see them setting up a depth gauge in one of the videos in this or another thread).

 

Providing the boys have managed to find some high and dry ground, they should be reasonably safe for much longer whilst awaiting rescue, but if they don't realise the rescue effort going on, they may try (or have already tried) to make their own way back.   This is the worst scenario.

 

That's a useful and informative post. Thank you, we need more of those, Though I'm  not sure we need quite so many threads about the same thing.

 

 

Edited July 1, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[lvr181]

This, sadly, says much about the current predicament.

 

[AGareth2]

13 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

Ah well. Perhaps there'll be some better news today, though I'm sure it won't come about by praying. Fingers crossed,

not much difference

[KiwiKiwi]

3 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

not much difference

 

True.

 

Slip of the wits.

 

Well spotted.

[Colabamumbai]

There should be no onlookers, this is a crime scene.

[lvr181]

1 minute ago, Colabamumbai said:

There should be no onlookers, this is a crime scene.

"..crime scene."?? Something not in accordance with law?

 

Damn, I must have missed something.

[eeworldwide]

Has anyone here heard of the theory that the cave route has been used by drug smugglers from Burma? Allegedly it crosses the border if you know the correct route...... 

[welovethailand]

I'm sorry, but with a background in criminal justice and investigation, I'm not buying this whole story.  Some things just don't make sense. When I see this kind of things happen, and all the world is focusing on it, I am walking outside the crownds wondering what they don't want us to see. Wag the Dog? False Flag? We'll see.......if they are "in the cave", I hope there is a fish pond, because one of those boys is going to start looking very tasty real soon.

[RT555]

In any other country... 2-3 DAY MAXIMUM. What a joke. 

[lvr181]

2 minutes ago, welovethailand said:

I'm sorry, but with a background in criminal justice and investigation, I'm not buying this whole story.  Some things just don't make sense. When I see this kind of things happen, and all the world is focusing on it, I am walking outside the crownds wondering what they don't want us to see. Wag the Dog? False Flag? We'll see.......if they are "in the cave", I hope there is a fish pond, because one of those boys is going to start looking very tasty real soon.

Slow internet? Or impatience? Or "grandstanding"?

Edited July 1, 2018 by lvr181
Additional comment

[DjSiN]

6 hours ago, Basil B said:

Yes, too many headless chickens...

 

Thailand needs a well drilled rescue command and control, one person in overall control.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bruce Willis maybe?

[The Deerhunter]

5 hours ago, kannot said:

<deleted>!!! WHY??

Here's your answer.  Nosey Parkers interfering. (pun intended)   "He said one issue was the lack of cooperation of people who would not move their vehicles for the road to be cleared."    "Don't you know who I am?"   

We followed a big empty truck yesterday for over 15km.  Driving right in the middle of the road at 40 kmh, blocking all traffic behind him.  He was apparently oblivious to the row of perhaps 20+ cars behind him who started to perform stupid dangerous passing maneauvers to get round him on a two lane winding rural highway.  At times like this the Thai mentality (or lack of one ) seems to be at a record level for lack of any concern for others, no matter how obvious it should be.

[canuckamuck]

18 minutes ago, eeworldwide said:

Has anyone here heard of the theory that the cave route has been used by drug smugglers from Burma? Allegedly it crosses the border if you know the correct route...... 

The mountain is entirely inside of Thailand and more than a kilometer from the border. With a major highway between the mountain and the border.

[josephbloggs]

20 minutes ago, RT555 said:

In any other country... 2-3 DAY MAXIMUM. What a joke. 

Ridiculous comment.

[trainman34014]

7 hours ago, Basil B said:

Yes, too many headless chickens...

 

Thailand needs a well drilled rescue command and control, one person in overall control.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will never happen as nobody wants ultimate responsibility for things that go wrong resulting in the dreaded 'Loss of Face'.   This is not a proactive country, it is a reactive one and 'planning' for disasters is the last thing on their minds until disaster occurs and then chaos ensues.

 

Don't expect anything much to change as Thai's are resistant to change.   As one old Thai told me recently...''Thai's don't want to change things, they like it the way it is...messy '' !

[gaff]

hello, can someone explain me ? It is a cave that can be visited, but not when raining ? There was a sign saying it, but they ignored it ? And now, everybody is sure that they are dead it seems ? Thanks.