Rescuers about to reach 'Pattaya Beach' chamber of Tham Luang Cave

[smileplur]

Indeed, heroes is exactly what these people are.  Their efforts deserve an applaud and support.  Constructive criticism of how to go about handling emergency situations like this can wait.  Action plans can be created; however, precious time cannot.  So, they go forward as best as they can tirelessly.  I will take my hat off to that and wait with hope myself.  Godspeed divers!

[sawadee1947]

9 hours ago, eeworldwide said:

OK - let's hope they get in there without incident, and let's pray the boys are there. If there are any survivors, hopefully this ordeal will turn them into fine young men, who appreciate life, and as they process the ordeal over the coming years to come, I suspect they will become useful members of society. Goodness knows Thailand needs good male rolemodels!

Sounds for me a bit stupid. These boys in case they are alive will be traumatised wrecks for their whole life. 

[chrisinth]

23 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Some discussion here...

sorry - I meant to attach the OP, not an irrelevant reply, but I'm sure you'll be able to navigate to the relevant bits. 

Apologies, it was the other type of 'lost' I meant. Has anyone ever gone missing in this cave system before, or is this a first?

[Peterw42]

1 hour ago, jenny2017 said:

 

If the divers have a problem to get there and that's going on now for how many days, who'd think that these kids have made it to a place with enough oxygen? The divers are afraid that their oxygen wouldn't be enough to reach the chamber, where did the kids have their oxygen from?

 

  

The kids went in before the cave was flooded so they didn't need oxygen, now the cave is flooded the divers are diving where the kids were on dry land. There is old footage on some of the news showing well worn tracks, steps and handrails in the cave, when its not flooded.

I dont  think there is an oxegen problem in the large caverns inside the cave.

 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Peterw42

[ThreeEyedRaven]

2 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Apologies, it was the other type of 'lost' I meant. Has anyone ever gone missing in this cave system before, or is this a first?

I read somewhere 2-3 days back in one of the many news stories that a group got stuck in there for just over a week some years back and all walked out alive and OK. I apologise I cant give you the link to it, cos way too many to sift through to find it again. 

[hotchilli]

9 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

The food is not the problem, Hypothermia is the problem, a week without food plus constantly wet and cold, little or no hope for the lads! saying that there is always hope until all hope is lost!

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It's been stated before that the ambient temperature within the cave & even if wet will not be low enough to cause hypothermia... 

[steve73]

13 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Apologies, it was the other type of 'lost' I meant. Has anyone ever gone missing in this cave system before, or is this a first?

You mean as in "never actually managed to get out or be recovered."  That I can't help you with...

[chickenslegs]

19 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Apologies, it was the other type of 'lost' I meant. Has anyone ever gone missing in this cave system before, or is this a first?

Story here, but not much detail ... https://chiangmaione.com/foreigners-were-rescued-from-same-mae-sai-cave-after-7-days-in-1974-476

[duanebigsby]

6 hours ago, zeamonkey said:

unbelieveable that a SEAL team is not diving on rebreathers in a cave.....

Rebreathers are a lot bigger than tanks and these guys are going into some tight crevasses.

[jenny2017]

23 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

The kids went in before the cave was flooded so they didn't need oxygen, now the cave is flooded the divers are diving where the kids were on dry land. There is old footage on some of the news showing well worn tracks, steps and handrails in the cave, when its not flooded.

I dont  think there is an oxegen problem in the large caverns inside the cave.

 

Doesn't that photo show parts near the entrance to the cave? Perhaps rescuers were lying about very low oxygen levels?

[jenny2017]

12 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Story here, but not much detail ... https://chiangmaione.com/foreigners-were-rescued-from-same-mae-sai-cave-after-7-days-in-1974-476

As Thailand and the world remains gripped by rescue attempts for the 13 children stuck in the Tham Luang Nang Non cave in Mae Sai, a former village headman has claimed that it’s not the first time a group of people have been stuck there.

 

   One more child? Now I give up..... the ass. coach can hardly be called a child. 

[Russell17au]

6 hours ago, zeamonkey said:

unbelieveable that a SEAL team is not diving on rebreathers in a cave.....

The reason why rebreathers are not used in because with a tank you can take it off and pass it through a small opening in front of you and then when you get through the opening you can put your tank back on. You cannot do this with the rebreather system it is too bulky for this type of operation.

[duanebigsby]

3 hours ago, africasiaeuro said:

Me and my thoughts again. Wdf 8 days before they organize a 130? It took a long long time for the Thais to get going. Too long for a rescue op. Now it's up to the Farung teams to get clarity. 8 days ! God help those guys. Even if all is well they will always suffer from trauma for the rest of their lives, understood. No one confined in a place like this for 8 days can be without after effects.

God be with them or Buddha whatever your choice. 

Read if you can german readers.

 

What rubbish! Thai authorities started within hours to organize rescue. Thai Nay Seals and equipment flown in very quickly.

Why do you think only foreigners can rescue them? It's a huge group effort.

[Russell17au]

3 hours ago, africasiaeuro said:

Me and my thoughts again. Wdf 8 days before they organize a 130? It took a long long time for the Thais to get going. Too long for a rescue op. Now it's up to the Farung teams to get clarity. 8 days ! God help those guys. Even if all is well they will always suffer from trauma for the rest of their lives, understood. No one confined in a place like this for 8 days can be without after effects.

God be with them or Buddha whatever your choice. 

Read if you can german readers.

 

You really need to check the facts before state such rubbish. The boys were reported lost in the cave on Saturday evening by one of the parents, the Thai Navy Seals flew in by plane on Sunday morning, plus 3 British experts on this cave were contacted on Sunday morning. A C130 has brought in extra air tanks and it is not up to the "Farung" teams to get clarity. Your facts are way, way out Mr.

[InfinityandBeyond]

10 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

Rebreathers are a lot bigger than tanks and these guys are going into some tight crevasses.

And yet another. Is there a "YAWN" emoji for those who advertise their expertise in breathing apparatus'?

This pissing contest is getting a bit boring now. 

We all just want the kids to come home.  This is a discussion forum, not an SAS/Special Forces CV dropbox. 

Those who have the required skills, training and knowledge required would be at site in a heartbeat. 

I know I would. But I don't possess them.  Therefore, I cheer those that do from the sidelines. 

 

[KKr]

2 hours ago, CGW said:

Oxygen cylinders, colour coding of oxygen cylinders, oxygen is not flamable, too much will kill you, they don't have rebreathers, we are having a quiz later on the colour coding of Air cylinders & the marking on air bottles, oh - believe the kids were mentioned.............. you missed a lot  

the most relevant one is the question about the decompression chamber.
and this all started cos the news channel did not learn the difference between air and what it consists of.

in any case, if the kids stuck together, had a shimmer of light, and have at least one natural leader, there is imho a good chance they are ok.
if scattered in 3 rooms, as indicated on some of the scans that circulated in local media earlier, much more stressful.
did not see a follow up on that post though so may well have been fake news.

[Peterw42]

30 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

Doesn't that photo show parts near the entrance to the cave? Perhaps rescuers were lying about very low oxygen levels?

At the moment the seal team base is in a cavern that is 3 kilometres, and several dives, in. No mention of air problems in that cavern, They were through to this same cavern early last week but had to retreat due to rising water levels. Maybe the oxygen levels are an issue but they wont know until they get there.

 

There is a really good chronological list of events here, that explains a lot as to what has happend. Not everyone realises they were just as close early last week but needed to retreat from some of the caverns as they filled with water.

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/live-updates-teenager-football-team-trapped-thai-cave/

 

[Russell17au]

3 minutes ago, InfinityandBeyond said:

And yet another. Is there a "YAWN" emoji for those who advertise their expertise in breathing apparatus'?

This pissing contest is getting a bit boring now. 

We all just want the kids to come home.  This is a discussion forum, not an SAS/Special Forces CV dropbox. 

Those who have the required skills, training and knowledge required would be at site in a heartbeat. 

I know I would. But I don't possess them.  Therefore, I cheer those that do from the sidelines. 

 

That is right, this is a discussion forum and one poster asked why the teams we not using rebreathers and he was answered and if that upsets you, bad luck buddy. Most of us want a good ending to this

[duanebigsby]

23 minutes ago, InfinityandBeyond said:

And yet another. Is there a "YAWN" emoji for those who advertise their expertise in breathing apparatus'?

This pissing contest is getting a bit boring now. 

We all just want the kids to come home.  This is a discussion forum, not an SAS/Special Forces CV dropbox. 

Those who have the required skills, training and knowledge required would be at site in a heartbeat. 

I know I would. But I don't possess them.  Therefore, I cheer those that do from the sidelines. 

 

I responded to a poster who was questioning the intelligence of the rescue groups.

I've never passed myself off as an expert, just know enough to inform someone that the rescue crews know what they are doing.

I'm not one of those who claim any SAS/Special Forces nor did I mention it.

Like you I'm cheering the well trained teams who are putting in a fantastic effort.

 

[Dogmatix]

I can only hope that the boys, their coach and all the rescuers get out of the cave safely. 

 

Looking at the maps, it seems staggering with the benefit of hindsight that such an obviously dangerous cave complex stretching for several kilometres was freely open to the general public.  I understand there was a warning at the entrance that people should not go in after 1 July but even so.  Hopefully whichever way this tragic incident is resolved, there will be meaningful restrictions placed on going into the cave.  Only allowing access with a properly guided and equipped party might be one idea.  The entrance should be properly gated up and controlled.   

[tukkytuktuk]

Latest Seal team video.

 

[maxcorrigan]

A lot of update news is being suppressed by the Thai army because exposing Thai Seals faces is a security threat or so they claim, this is from the "Chang Mai city news" which was running constant updates which has now seemingly stopped! 

[InfinityandBeyond]

2 minutes ago, duanebigsby said:

I responded to a poster who was questioning the intelligence of the rescue groups.

I've never passed myself off as an expert, just know enough to inform someone that the rescue crews know what they are doing.

I'm not one of those who claim any SAS/Special Forces not did I mention it. You pulled that out of your a$$.

Like you I'm cheering the well trained teams who are putting in a fantastic effort.

 

Fair enough. I apologise for not recognising your sincere contribution to the discussion. 

[Dumbastheycome]

I have  had  enough  of the  armchair advisor negativity!

Mostly  because  it comes  from  individuals who  are prolific  in  negatives  about  the  actions  of  others in  false  wisdom  of  some  retrospective interpretation of  what  they themselves   would  never  have  raised  their  lazy  arse  to  ever attempt whether that be the initial unfortunate circumstances  of this  situation or  the  efforts  being  made  to  rescue.

This  group  of minors led  by a  barely  mature enough  leader  are  in a  dire  situation more  by  untimely   circumstance  that  anything more.

The  somewhat  panicked response in  a situation  increasingly aggravated  by  the  primary  cause which is rainfall  in response  to a location  which  has  no  reliable detailed comprehensive  information to  work to is  of  no  surprise  or containing   negative about  the  effort.

Yes. It has  been  identified  that  it has not  been  impressively   coordinated.

Disappointing but given  the circumstances not  genuinely  worthy  of  negative opinion.

Despite  the  rapid  influx of  "foreign" assistance  in all  shape,  form,  persons little has  resulted  in  anything   more  than that  carried out   by  Thai .

For  sure  it  will  generate (auto? )biographies  of   self  declared  claims as to input on  whatever the outcome is. The  majority  of those  are  sure to  lack  any  genuine empathy   for  the  individuals who  are the focus  of this  real  life drama.

It  is  my  hope  that these young  people  are  found  and  extracted  successfully.

That  achieved... then   kudos  to  all and  any  who  were  involved  in  genuine effort.

If it  transpires  that that is  not  achieved.....kudos to all and   any  who were involved in  genuine   effort.

But  at  this  time  my heart  goes  out  to the   missing  children  trapped  in  darkness and  suffering   hunger at  the  very  least as well as  the families waiting  outside in the  agony  of  not  knowing.

 

 

[Peterw42]

7 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

I can only hope that the boys, their coach and all the rescuers get out of the cave safely. 

 

Looking at the maps, it seems staggering with the benefit of hindsight that such an obviously dangerous cave complex stretching for several kilometres was freely open to the general public.  I understand there was a warning at the entrance that people should not go in after 1 July but even so.  Hopefully whichever way this tragic incident is resolved, there will be meaningful restrictions placed on going into the cave.  Only allowing access with a properly guided and equipped party might be one idea.  The entrance should be properly gated up and controlled.   

Yes you are right, but I was just watching Thairath channel and they were just showing old footage of middle aged tourists going through the cave complex with nothing but torches and cameras around there necks. There are tracks, steps, handrails and signs. When its not full of water, it appears to be relativity safe and accessible. 

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

I have  had  enough  of the  armchair advisor negativity!

Mostly  because  it comes  from  individuals who  are prolific  in  negatives  about  the  actions  of  others in  false  wisdom  of  some  retrospective interpretation of  what  they themselves   would  never  have  raised  their  lazy  arse  to  ever attempt whether that be the initial unfortunate circumstances  of this  situation or  the  efforts  being  made  to  rescue.

This  group  of minors led  by a  barely  mature enough  leader  are  in a  dire  situation more  by  untimely   circumstance  that  anything more.

The  somewhat  panicked response in  a situation  increasingly aggravated  by  the  primary  cause which is rainfall  in response  to a location  which  has  no  reliable detailed comprehensive  information to  work to is  of  no  surprise  or containing   negative about  the  effort.

Yes. It has  been  identified  that  it has not  been  impressively   coordinated.

Disappointing but given  the circumstances not  genuinely  worthy  of  negative opinion.

Despite  the  rapid  influx of  "foreign" assistance  in all  shape,  form,  persons little has  resulted  in  anything   more  than that  carried out   by  Thai .

For  sure  it  will  generate (auto? )biographies  of   self  declared  claims as to input on  whatever the outcome is. The  majority  of those  are  sure to  lack  any  genuine empathy   for  the  individuals who  are the focus  of this  real  life drama.

It  is  my  hope  that these young  people  are  found  and  extracted  successfully.

That  achieved... then   kudos  to  all and  any  who  were  involved  in  genuine effort.

If it  transpires  that that is  not  achieved.....kudos to all and   any  who were involved in  genuine   effort.

But  at  this  time  my heart  goes  out  to the   missing  children  trapped  in  darkness and  suffering   hunger at  the  very  least as well as  the families waiting  outside in the  agony  of  not  knowing.

 

 

Have a look at the chronological events in the link below. it answers a lot of the questions and perceptions of poorly managed, why didn't they do this or that, why is it taking so long etc. There has been a logicial and practical chain of events, help asked for etc. All hampered by the rising water and limited knowledge of the cave system.

 

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/live-updates-teenager-football-team-trapped-thai-cave/

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

3 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Have a look at the chronological events in the link below. it answers a lot of the questions and perceptions of poorly managed, why didn't they do this or that, why is it taking so long etc. There has been a logicial and practical chain of events, help asked for etc. All hampered by the rising water and limited knowledge of the cave system.

 

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/live-updates-teenager-football-team-trapped-thai-cave/

 

 

Which  alters   nothing  of  my  opinion.

 

[Rori ban khun fang]

T

11 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

The food is not the problem, Hypothermia is the problem, a week without food plus constantly wet and cold, little or no hope for the lads! saying that there is always hope until all hope is lost!

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes hypothermia is the real issue. I not expect they have polar clothes and anoraks with them.

No food, No fire is the issue in here.

Probably they are in there with wet clothes. When the body temperature sinks to 31 degrees or lower bodies wil get in spasm mode. At 28 or lower it is deadly.

I presume in the cave the temperature is at about 18 degrees at a maximum. 

Sad to day I have no hope for the kids anymore.

 

People I know who were in the pattaya beach cave before only enter it with special clothing. To keep warm and dry.

 

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Which  alters   nothing  of  my  opinion.

 

I Thought it backs up what you say in your post, a lot of it has been factors out of anyone's control, good management or bad, experts or no experts.

[gaff]

12 hours ago, Just1Voice said:

Eight days, no food, no clean water.  Sadly, I don't hold out much hope for the survival of all of them.  The ones that do survive will be traumatized by this event for the rest of their lives unless they receive some very good psychiatric help and counseling.

 

 

Thai traumatized ?

I don't think to ! If they are alive as I wish them, 2 days later they will have forgotten what happened.