Rescue mission head rules out waiting for cave to dry

By The Nation

 

 

The head of the rescue mission engaged in evacuating 13 trapped footballers in Chiang Rai’s Tham Luang cave on Saturday ruled out as "impossible" the option of waiting for the cave to dry.

Speaking at a press conference, Phayao Governor Narongsak Osottanakorn said "this option is impossible" because that would mean having to wait until December or January.

 

He said it was definitely the safest option but not feasible in this case.

 

He said the mission was still battling the influx of water. So far they had been successful in at least making it possible for rescuers to walk to Chamber 3 inside the cave but the fight against water was not over yet.

 

He revealed that officials twice had to flee a rapid influx water that "came like a tsunami or a run-off".

 

Narongsak, who has been transferred from Chiang Rai to Phayao, said every measure was always discussed thoroughly by the committee and the committee held a meeting for over three hours every day.

 

The mission head added that currently the safety of the trapped footballers was regarded as acceptable but once the authorities see any danger to their lives they would have to make the decision to evacuate them even though such a move might not be 100 per cent safe.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30349546

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-07-07

Save for using an elevator, as in Chile some years ago, there will not be a 100% safe solution.

 

Where is technology when you need it?

Sending a message to Mars takes between 15 and 20 minutes, yet for the parents at the entrance of the cave to send a message to their children a few ki!ometers away, it takes between 3 and 6 hours!

 

 

"... every measure was always discussed thoroughly by the committee and the committee held a meeting for over three hours every day".

 

That particular quote made me nervous. 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

"... every measure was always discussed thoroughly by the committee and the committee held a meeting for over three hours every day".

 

That particular quote made me nervous. 

 

 

 

Humm... death by committee.  If it wasn't so serious it would be laughable.

 

It needs one strong leader... sadly lacking in ANY country nowadays.

2 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Humm... death by committee.  If it wasn't so serious it would be laughable.

 

It needs one strong leader... sadly lacking in ANY country nowadays.

I think it means every option is considered carefully, essential in this dilemma.

24 minutes ago, bannork said:

I think it means every option is considered carefully, essential in this dilemma.

...Which is fine until the situation get's out of control and time runs out.

 

i.e. It rains... and you lose some of the options.

49 minutes ago, steve73 said:

...Which is fine until the situation get's out of control and time runs out.

 

i.e. It rains... and you lose some of the options.

Agree

The place was never going to dry out but they waited till the last minute

Now the rains have come & since the mountain is a soaked sponge, it will only take a reasonable shower to make it flow

Is it just me or are you getting tired of the breathless coverage of this story?  Out of the first 10 Thailand News threads, literally 9 are about this story.  9 out of 10!

1 hour ago, steve73 said:

Humm... death by committee.  If it wasn't so serious it would be laughable.

 

It needs one strong leader... sadly lacking in ANY country nowadays.

 

I agree. It needs one person in authority together with recognised cave rescue experts and health professionals. I read that a number of Korean airplane crashes occurred because the assistant pilot didn't feel able to challenge the pilot, who was making an error ... a cultural issue they have since solved. If there's an idiot in charge the worry is that no one challenges him.

So many giving opinion as to when.

 

No matter what the team remains in my prayers.

 

I hope that they learn to have only one expert at the head of situations like this.

 

So what is happening with Musk's offer? The rains when they come are very heavy. They can even flood Bangkok from there.

 

Nice to see the boys still smiling.

 

2 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

If there's an idiot in charge the worry is that no one challenges him.

Not one but one of many. So long as the experts are in there the Thais will learn.

2 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

Not one but one of many. So long as the experts are in there the Thais will learn.

Perhaps the intense interest from around the world and at the very highest levels in Thailand will prevent a mis-step. To be fair, I would not like to make the call. 

11 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Is it just me or are you getting tired of the breathless coverage of this story?  Out of the first 10 Thailand News threads, literally 9 are about this story.  9 out of 10!

Yes its just you

so a person that has no experience in caving/diving or what it entails is making the decisions on what they will do, would be nice if they used people in the know. The idea a group of thai officials that are in their positions probably due to who they are rather than their abilities, making decisions of the kids lives is very scary to say the least unless they do have the overseas experts amongst them. The person making the decisions should be an expert in the field of rescue not the governor of a province

 

14 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Perhaps the intense interest from around the world and at the very highest levels in Thailand will prevent a mis-step. To be fair, I would not like to make the call. 

I am getting the feeling that no one is willing to make the necessary decision. If the committee have equal power then a joint decision, but I haven't seen many committees without the "person in charge" . That is often a nice position but in this case not. In which case you would need to somehow absolve yourself of the power and make it a joint effort.

If this is the case I hope they don't run out of time!

32 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Is it just me or are you getting tired of the breathless coverage of this story?  Out of the first 10 Thailand News threads, literally 9 are about this story.  9 out of 10!

That's because thai visa is a business that makes money from advertising. 

Nobody is posting on the other topics. so obviously they will post stories about the most popular topic. 

24 minutes ago, cmsally said:

I am getting the feeling that no one is willing to make the necessary decision. If the committee have equal power then a joint decision, but I haven't seen many committees without the "person in charge" . That is often a nice position but in this case not. In which case you would need to somehow absolve yourself of the power and make it a joint effort.

If this is the case I hope they don't run out of time!

You know what Thai's are like; nobody wants ultimate responsibility in case something goes wrong because absolutely everything has to be someone else's fault !

Time to put their pride in their pocket..

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2018/07/07/french-team-ready-to-join-cave-rescue-if-thailand-asks/

35 minutes ago, cmsally said:

I am getting the feeling that no one is willing to make the necessary decision. If the committee have equal power then a joint decision, but I haven't seen many committees without the "person in charge" . That is often a nice position but in this case not. In which case you would need to somehow absolve yourself of the power and make it a joint effort.

If this is the case I hope they don't run out of time!

 

So do I. After the relief of finding them it’s dawned on everyone how dangerous the extraction process is. I really hope this all ends well.

Not going to be easy....No

 

Starting to look like a case of too many cooks, I hope the broth is not spoilt.

 

Only the rescue divers will know if the boys can make it out, if they think so, then they should be doing it yesterday already. If they can't then drilling is the only option. Last year rainy season lasted into November. And I imagine the water in the cave didn't come down until January. No one is likely to survive 5 or 6 months in that chamber. They will eventually get sick from respiratory issues and other infections, or they'll go nuts, or both, and that is if the water doesn't rise up and get them that way. And the oxygen do you think they can maintain an air line for 5 months in a gushing water filled cave?

Someone needs to make the call now.

 

53 minutes ago, jossthaifarang said:

Time to put their pride in their pocket..

 

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2018/07/07/french-team-ready-to-join-cave-rescue-if-thailand-asks/

These guys should have been here a couple of days ago. So basically no extra specialist help has been accepted since they were found ? Is that really the case? Rain has started again in Northern Thailand and I doubt staying in the cave throughout another 4 months of heavy rain is really an option.

 

Is it just me or are you getting tired of the breathless coverage of this story?  Out of the first 10 Thailand News threads, literally 9 are about this story.  9 out of 10!

They are first in the list of threads because they have the most recent posts. Plenty of other news stories are being posted as well, just not generating as much traffic.


Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

That's because thai visa is a business that makes money from advertising. 
Nobody is posting on the other topics. so obviously they will post stories about the most popular topic. 

[emoji51] we are posting plenty of other topics.

We have no control over where these end up relative to the top of the news forum, that is determined by the number and speed of responses by members.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

These guys should have been here a couple of days ago. So basically no extra specialist help has been accepted since they were found ? Is that really the case? Rain has started again in Northern Thailand and I doubt staying in the cave throughout another 4 months of heavy rain is really an option.
 

TONS of specialist help has been accepted and continues to be. So much so that coordination is itself a massive job.

Many, many more companies and groups are up there than people realize. I only learned a few hours ago that several private US companies, such as Chevron, are up there providing equipment and expertise. Not every group advertises what they are doing.

It simply is not an easy situationwith an obvious or easy solution.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

A few views on this. First when the Brits made the first contact he said "many many others are coming". He knew that there was chaos outside with too many people involved and no strong leadership to take control, hence volunteers pumping water back into the cave. 

Secondly saving face came to play. As soon as the children was found they sidelined the Brits to make the seals look good. But they underestimated the problem of getting the children out.

Thirdly. They are only pumping 10 m2 per minute. My small 2kw Franklin submersible pump can pump 10 m2 per hour. Are their best pumps only able to pump 60 times more than my borehole pump?

Fourthly. When the children was found after nearly 10 days they did not suffer from any CO2 side effects. Suddenly officials is motivatinf their extraction due to possible CO2 buildup. It was also reported that some of the children heard chickens and noises from the outside. This would imply another exit and also explain why their oxygen didn't runout. Is the CO2 story serving as additional motivation to dive them out?

Last but not least will the presence of the children in the cave for another 4 months be a distraction from the power games on the outside? If the children is inside the cave the media attention may not shine on the "right" people in the run up to the 2019 election.  

18 minutes ago, cmsally said:

These guys should have been here a couple of days ago. So basically no extra specialist help has been accepted since they were found ? Is that really the case? Rain has started again in Northern Thailand and I doubt staying in the cave throughout another 4 months of heavy rain is really an option.

 

No your not correct as a further 5 British Cave experts came out on thurs/Friday bringing with them over 1/2 ton of extra equipment .

4 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Save for using an elevator, as in Chile some years ago, there will not be a 100% safe solution.

 

Where is technology when you need it?

Sending a message to Mars takes between 15 and 20 minutes, yet for the parents at the entrance of the cave to send a message to their children a few ki!ometers away, it takes between 3 and 6 hours!

 

 

They seem to use AIS GSM. ( I'm kidding, the air is so dry here...) 

2 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Is it just me or are you getting tired of the breathless coverage of this story?  Out of the first 10 Thailand News threads, literally 9 are about this story.  9 out of 10!

I hear you. Isn't there a story pertaining to Thaksin. I don't know , maybe a "warrant story" or something like that.