Thai boys await resumption of rescue mission after first four freed from cave

[lamyai3]

The way I heard things explained was that the rescue mission was conducted in a kind of relay system, with divers responsible for their section of the cave, at the end of which the boy being rescued would be passed to the next team who would accompany them through the next stage. In this way divers would become increasingly familiar with their section allowing the evacuations to become more streamlined and predictable.

 

Does anyone know who has remained with the kids? Did the British divers who I understood to have been responsible for the innermost section exit the cave overnight? 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, ginjag said:

EMERGENCY   evacuation because of drastic oxygen levels falling,   This morning I could not believe my eyes when it stated that they had a lack of full tanks of oxygen so it delayed the rest of the rescue.    May I ask who is the organiser of ordering enough full oxygen tanks ???     They should have been in place with more than  enough needed a week ago.  Now no news today yet.  WHY ???     have the kids oxygen enough in the cave   ??

Have you not been watching the tv coverage? They have piles of air tanks in the caves, all of which have to be carried in by one person each, for a long way in very difficult circumstances. Even if they had more people, they couldn't all fit down the passages. The ones that were in the caves were all used during the rescue operation yesterday, which would explain why they stopped at 4. It apparently took them 12 hours to replace them. Don't expect the impossible. I doubt anyone could have done better.

BTW, a week ago they had no idea of what they needed, and the organisation since has been brilliant. None of us behind our computers could have done better.

 

Re the O2 levels in the caves, they have lots of O2 tanks which presumably have been used in the caves.

[Kadilo]

39 minutes ago, taotoo said:

If anyone on this thread is an experienced diver please indicate so in each of your posts so that we can sort the wheat from the chaff.

Waste of time. Some will be experienced divers today and ex SAS soldiers tomorrow. 

It’s pretty clear when you read who is genuine and who is a blagger. 

[tropo]

Just now, lopburi3 said:

The official news briefing said the same diving team started rescue operations today aT 1100.  That conditions inside cave are the same as yesterday.

You'd have to wonder why they started so late. I'm guessing it is a supply problem such as air tanks etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

There are 2 updates, one saying that rescuers entered cave at around 10 am and were to follow similar plan as yesterday. Another says 10 rescuers entered the cave at 1 pm. Are there 2 teams going in one after another? That would mimic the graphic MCOT was showing yesterday where groups would "meet" at dry points inside the cave going opposite directions. If that were true, so 20 rescuers, they might be planning on extracting more than 4 today. Possibly the rain overnight changed original plans? This isn't a confirmation of anything, but asking whether anyone else understood above updates the same or was the original 10 am entry postponed to 1 pm...?

If they used all the tanks just to rescue 4 it might be prudent to expect the same today. However, yesterday would have been a learning experience, so they may get more out today.

[seajae]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

Full standard aluminium scuba tanks weigh almost 20kg. I think that is what they are using. Steel tanks will weigh more.

 

It's a huge undertaking to carry spare tanks into this cave... especially 2 - 4km in. They need to dive in some areas, so they have one on their back to breathe from while they carry the extra tank. In two areas the tunnel is too narrow to wear a tank, so they would be dragging their own breathing tank as well as the spare one.

steel are actually lighter an 80 steel is 15 kg, an 80 aluminium is closer to 18kg

 

[Mainhattencitizen]

1 minute ago, tropo said:

You'd have to wonder why they started so late. I'm guessing it is a supply problem such as air tanks etc.

You have to give the divers some rest too. Would not want them to go in there tired.

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

You'd have to wonder why they started so late. I'm guessing it is a supply problem such as air tanks etc.

Actually they are a bit upset with false press reports (6 persons) based on false interpretation of intercepted communications and drone flying in violation of rules by press I believe.

Edit:  above about press conference - not actual rescue operation time.

[tropo]

1 minute ago, seajae said:

steel are actually lighter an 80 steel is 15 kg, an 80 aluminium is closer to 18kg

 

I didn't realize that. I've only ever dived with aluminium tanks. I should have mentioned in my weight calculation I'm referring to 95 cu ft tanks. I'm not sure what the rescuers are using, but they look that big.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, tropo said:

You'd have to wonder why they started so late. I'm guessing it is a supply problem such as air tanks etc.

They estimated last night it would take 12 hours, but it may have taken longer. I'm sure they haven't been sitting on their hands, but only so many people can fit down the tunnels. Also all the tanks had to be taken out to be refilled, so just a question of time vs people able to take them out/ in.

In places, they are wading through water up to their necks, with the tunnel roof just over their heads. Respect to those carrying.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Mainhattencitizen said:

You have to give the divers some rest too. Would not want them to go in there tired.

Yes, but they did have 12 hours and more.

[tropo]

3 minutes ago, Mainhattencitizen said:

You have to give the divers some rest too. Would not want them to go in there tired.

I understand that, but I don't believe that's the reason for the overnight break. If they had the supply they would have continued IMO. If they needed more divers they would have them. 

[seajae]

6 minutes ago, tropo said:

I didn't realize that. I've only ever dived with aluminium tanks. I should have mentioned in my weight calculation I'm referring to 95 cu ft tanks. I'm not sure what the rescuers are using, but they look that big.

we used steel tanks and at the start we used j valves as well(reserve air) before k valves took over, originally we used 72's(steel) them went to 80's, these days its mostly aluminium though, steel is a thinner than aluminium which is why it is lighter by a few kg, they are also smaller than the aluminium tanks for the same size

 

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, tomazbodner said:

Apparently Elon Musk's SpaceX made a mini submarine to assist with the rescue of the boys.

Photo is from Associated Press but widely shared in other media.

From what I understand one of the choke points is only 38cm and doubles back like a u bend - the divers have to remove their tanks to get through. I can't see how anything this big could work. 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

I didn't realize that. I've only ever dived with aluminium tanks. I should have mentioned in my weight calculation I'm referring to 95 cu ft tanks. I'm not sure what the rescuers are using, but they look that big.

Doesn't matter really. Only 1 can be carried by each person, unless carrying one on the back as well. I doubt I could have carried two through those tunnels.

Whatever, the access is very difficult, with narrow tunnels and the floor covered by the water pipes, of which there are many.

[jerry921]

just posting a tweet:

 

Saksith Saiyasombut retweeted
	Kayleigh E. Long @ayleighk	4h
	someone needs to mansplain to MUSK that there are 1. bends in the tunnel 2. sections that narrow to 15 inches 3. the rescue is underway already dude

 

 

 

[CGW]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

However, yesterday would have been a learning experience, so they may get more out today.

Lessons learned, sure they will have learn t many & hope they help them in todays successful operation.

[CGW]

5 minutes ago, seajae said:

steel is a thinner than aluminium which is why it is lighter by a few kg, they are also smaller than the aluminium tanks for the same size

Steel is 2.5 times heavier than aluminum, thickness is immaterial? 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

From what I understand one of the choke points is only 38cm and doubles back like a u bend - the divers have to remove their tanks to get through. I can't see how anything this big could work. 

The flexible bags he made as well might have worked though. I'd say his tube will come in handy for things like rescue from sunken boats. Whatever, it is a good idea.

[tropo]

30 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

49 minutes ago, taotoo said:

If anyone on this thread is an experienced diver please indicate so in each of your posts so that we can sort the wheat from the chaff.

I'm an experienced diver, but never cave dived so that experience as related to this thread extends only to the equipment.

Just guessing, but I'd say there are few to zero experienced cave divers posting on TVF.

I agree. I've done hundreds of ocean dives, but never tried cave diving. It's the most dangerous type of diving by far and I've never liked the idea of being trapped in a tunnel in small spaces. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the rescue divers are not experienced in cave diving. 

[jerry921]

And another tweet, this one a ThaiVisa retweet. Current time is about 3:30 pm in Thailand if I've looked it up properly, so we might be getting some news soon. The tweet is an hour old, so the ambulances would have arrived about 2 hours ago now.

 

Thaivisa retweeted
	Florian Witulski @vaitor	59m
	Three additional ambulances arrived at the cave about an hour ago. Further survivors are expected from 4pm local time onwards

[rabas]

26 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

[...]

It's sad that so many are so bitter that they have to ruin threads that should be positive and informative.

I guess it's pointless asking people to keep their negativity for less serious subjects, as it never seems to work just asking people to be nice when posting, when they'd rather attack other people, religion, Thais and Thailand.

Just saying.

Obviously there's a lot of dissatisfied customers if that is the case.

Something wrong with the product maybe? 

More likely they purchased a product without knowing how to use it. In my experience if you understand and know where the controls are, Thailand remains a most magical place. Where else would a Buddhist monk be deemed a hero for helping 12 young lives survive long dark isolation because of his ability to meditate for long periods deep in caves.  I would have gone bonkers 2 minutes after my watch stopped.

[seajae]

you can also get side tanks(at the hip), knew a few guys that used them when we dived caves as back ups or even pony bottles for an emergency but in tight spaces they would be cumbersome

[HooHaa]

1 hour ago, ginjag said:

EMERGENCY   evacuation because of drastic oxygen levels falling,   This morning I could not believe my eyes when it stated that they had a lack of full tanks of oxygen so it delayed the rest of the rescue.    May I ask who is the organiser of ordering enough full oxygen tanks ???     They should have been in place with more than  enough needed a week ago.  Now no news today yet.  WHY ???     have the kids oxygen enough in the cave   ??

And are you simple?

 

Numerous spare "oxygen" tanks need be distributed throughout the cave to allow divers to replenish on the move.

 

Those tanks cannot be restocked with the children being extracted. 

 

Nor can the extraction divers work endlessly around the clock without rest.

 

 

 

[seajae]

1 minute ago, CGW said:

Steel is 2.5 times heavier than aluminum, thickness is immaterial? 

"Because steel is stronger and more ductile than aluminum, construction of a tank requires less steel than aluminum. This usually means that for an equal gas capacity, a steel tank will have a total weight less than an aluminum tank yet have better buoyancy characteristics. For example, the standard aluminum 80-cubic-foot tank weighs about 35 pounds, while similar capacity steel tanks weigh in at about 30 pounds."

[steve73]

10 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

From what I understand one of the choke points is only 38cm and doubles back like a u bend - the divers have to remove their tanks to get through. I can't see how anything this big could work. 

Musk's contraption looks like a giant d1ck - like the guy who proposed it.

[frodo77]

3 minutes ago, jerry921 said:

And another tweet, this one a ThaiVisa retweet. Current time is about 3:30 pm in Thailand if I've looked it up properly, so we might be getting some news soon. The tweet is an hour old, so the ambulances would have arrived about 2 hours ago now.

 

Thaivisa retweeted
	Florian Witulski @vaitor	59m
	Three additional ambulances arrived at the cave about an hour ago. Further survivors are expected from 4pm local time onwards

Your time is correct. Its now 3:37 thai time

[Spock]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

I understand that, but I don't believe that's the reason for the overnight break. If they had the supply they would have continued IMO. If they needed more divers they would have them. 

Maybe they want to use the same divers because they are the best and most experienced cave divers. Surely the divers can't be expected to turn around and head back in soon after their first trip. It's hardly like going to work a normal job then fronting up again next morning, or being asked to do a few hours overtime at the end of a shift. I would imagine a two way trip, particularly the return trip with a boy who has never dived before in tow, takes a huge physical toll on the divers.

 

Why so many questions? Why not just accept that events are moving as fast as they can and that every effort is being made to evacuate the boys from the cave? Some people are just never satisfied and have to question everything. Jai yen yen. Accept that you were not chosen for the rescue mission and move on.

[Classic Ray]

Proper media management is essential during an operation like this. Complete blackouts don't work as journalists will use any methods to get stories, or will simply make them up. To continue to get cooperation from journalists they must be regularly fed with updates. They can be an asset to incident management as well as a hindrance. If the police and government want to come out of this smelling of roses they would do well to keep good relations with the media.

[pathologix]

34 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Does anyone know of a Thai news service in English that I can use to watch the rescue in a few hours? Hopefully they have a live service available on the internet.

There aren't any on WETV which is the tv company I have to watch.

Fox and Al Jazeera have some updates, but not continuous. WETV no longer carries Sky, so only 2 channels in English carrying the story. I thought Asia news channel would do so, but their coverage is minimal.

I would suggest following the reporting done by BBC, NYT, Washington Post, the news wires, etc. rather than Thai stations or Fox. 

 

Though imperfect (especially during breaking news events), the fact-checking process for the grand dame Western media outlets is light years beyond any of the above. They all have very qualified, experienced reporters – along with top-notch fixers – on the scene. Plus, small armies of fact checkers in their local bureaus and headquarters. As we saw during last night's reporting, they have a much deeper respect for confirming facts than more tabloid-like outlets you listed. They are more likely to sacrifice a bit of speed for a bit more accuracy. 

 

Of course, that's not to say that they always get it right, or that Thai outlets or Fox always get it wrong. But if you are more interested in facts than speed, odds are going to be better that you get the real story by following coverage from organizations with the world's best reporters and editors.