Securing residency

[chris2224]

So my longtime girlfriend is buying a house, freehold, her name, etc.

The place needs work and purchasing of items such as TV, washer, etc will be funded by me (I will move in).

Financially works out fine...I will cease paying rent. However, longer term I am looking to protect my investment should things turn sour.

I recall there is a legal document (cannot recall the name) which gives me the entitlement to stay in the property. Does anyone have any idea what it is called and how to set up?

Thanks in advance.

 

[blackcab]

If your girlfriend is paying for the purchase, why would she give you legal rights over her property just because you bought some electrical appliances? That doesn't make sense.

 

A contract that gives you an entitlement to stay in a property is called a lease.

[KittenKong]

I suspect that the legal name the OP is thinking of is usufruct. A lease is more of a long rental and it doesnt offer much protection, particularly if little or no payment is made for it. I suppose he could buy a lease with the money that he intends to spend on the house, but what happens if the owner then decides not to renovate it fully or at all? Or if she wants to pay back the declared value of the lease and cancel it?

Also it seems as though he will be paying for the refurbishment/renovation - "place needs work" - and that potentially could cost many times more than just buying some appliances. I suspect that is the investment that he wants to protect and I think that usufruct may be the way to do it.

My personal choice would be to just buy a farang-name condo instead and let the GF finance her own house. But that probably explains why I live alone, rich and happy.

[Jackin1960]

Why buy when you can rent just pay her a small rent she can use that to get what she wants and when she has what she wants then she can ask you to go. Then find another place to rent, because that my friend is how it works no matter how you dress it up.

[klauskunkel]

Since the OP says his investment consists of buying a "TV, washer, etc", then I believe the documents he needs to prove ownership are the bill of sale in his name for the items. Other that a legal document that entitles him to stay in the property is a "Rental Contract".

[Juan B Tong]

Your investment strategy reminds me of an old joke...

 

" The next time I start thinking about getting married, ill just find a woman who hates me and buy her a house."

 

 

[biplanebluey]

I wonder if he is perhaps getting his lines crossed here.He is never going to own a hous that is initilly his girlfriends.That is he first mistake.Alsothe second is he will never own. House here even if he 100o/o pays for it.I payed this and got a 30 tr lease which means I am unable to be put out until I am 103 yrs old !!!!.As far as I am aware there is no other way to secure a farang tenancy.This guys method of buying a few bits and pices is thwart with disaster 

[Naroge]

You buying a few appliances don’t give you any rights to stay in the house. If you keep the receipts you can bring those with you if you have to leave although the A/C might be a bit difficult. But she doesn’t need to let you come in and get your stuff, so regard them as lost.

 

If you need security to stay in the house you need a lease or usufruct, but any of those are completely separate from your appliances.

[biplanebluey]

10 minutes ago, Juan B Tong said:

Your investment strategy reminds me of an old joke...

 

" The next time I start thinking about getting married, ill just find a woman who hates me and buy her a house."

 

 

Exctly !!!!!!!!

[Deli]

If you fund the work for reparations and the furniture and whatever needs to be bought, in order to protect yourself you should make a legally valid contract that all mobile goods (TV, washing machine, etc. ) belong to you and that you invested xxx THB in reparations. For this you have the right to stay in the place for xxx years without paying, unless your GF pays you back your investment. I know that there is such kind of contract possible but you need to talk to a lawyer for details.

My advice: Don't do it - too many farangs got fleeced in that way

[KittenKong]

Since the OP says his investment consists of buying a "TV, washer, etc",....

The OP says that the "place needs work" and that, plus the cost of appliances, would be financed by him.

"Work" could just be a 5,000B paint job or it could amount to more than the actual cost of the house and land, depending on what condition it is in now and what sort of condition is desired at the end. Given his concern about the money involved, I suspect that it needs quite a lot of work that will cost quite a lot to do.
After all, if he only buys appliances then they belong to him and if he has to move out at some point he can just take them with him for resale or use elsewhere.

[natway09]

Rent the property for 30 years ?

[quandow]

Chris, it appears you're a new member and I'm guessing also new to Thailand. I would recommend you never invest anything you aren't fully prepared to walk away from. I did what you are writing about with a Thai girl about 10 years ago. Things DID go sour, we split up, and as a foreigner, you really don't have any recourse. Since I had literally been around the world,  I wasn't surprised, and to this day if she and I bump into each other, we're like two puppies, our tails wagging, genuinely happy to see each other.

[fxe1200]

Even a usufruct may not give you security. I remember a case, when a man working in Singapore for four days a week, came home and was not allowed to enter, because his wife and her new bodybuilder-lover would no let him in. The police told them to hire a lawyer and take the case to court. The case lasted five years, and he learned, that the house meanwhile was sold and no word about a usufruct in the contract, or any other documents. His fault: He left the documentation inside the house and never placed certified copies or the originals at his work place in Singapore.

[Formaleins]

Living rent free and all you are doing is buying some furniture, what exactly is your "Investment" you need to protect?

You could buy some sticky labels, put your name on them and stick them to the furniture, leave the price tag on too!

[topt]

3 minutes ago, fxe1200 said:

Even a usufruct may not give you security. I remember a case, when a man working in Singapore for four days a week, came home and was not allowed to enter, because his wife and her new bodybuilder-lover would no let him in. The police told them to hire a lawyer and take the case to court. The case lasted five years, and he learned, that the house meanwhile was sold and no word about a usufruct in the contract, or any other documents. His fault: He left the documentation inside the house and never placed certified copies or the originals at his work place in Singapore.

For the usufruct to be valid it would have been registered at the land office. If so his name would have been on the Chanotte so something else is not right?

 

The usufruct does not however stop the owner selling the property but the usufructee still has the rights to live in the property. So it does not protect the actual money you may have spent.

 

He could/should have got a notarised copy of the Chanotte and usufruct agreement (which would have been attached to the Chanotte) from the land office as soon as he knew he had problems which may have helped him right at the start.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Since the OP says his investment consists of buying a "TV, washer, etc",....

The OP says that the "place needs work" and that, plus the cost of appliances, would be financed by him.

"Work" could just be a 5,000B paint job or it could amount to more than the actual cost of the house and land, depending on what condition it is in now and what sort of condition is desired at the end. Given his concern about the money involved, I suspect that it needs quite a lot of work that will cost quite a lot to do.
After all, if he only buys appliances then they belong to him and if he has to move out at some point he can just take them with him for resale or use elsewhere.

He can take appliances IF he has access to the house. Might not be possible with a new boyfriend, corrupt police and Nosy neighbors while he waits 5 years for a contract case to go through the courts. Any moneys investe d in renovation would of course go bye bye.

A good rule here is never invest anything you can’t afford to walk away from.

I’d say buy a condo in own name. If things with the gf “Go South”, give her the boot and get on with life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, fxe1200 said:

Even a usufruct may not give you security. I remember a case, when a man working in Singapore for four days a week, came home and was not allowed to enter, because his wife and her new bodybuilder-lover would no let him in. The police told them to hire a lawyer and take the case to court. The case lasted five years, and he learned, that the house meanwhile was sold and no word about a usufruct in the contract, or any other documents. His fault: He left the documentation inside the house and never placed certified copies or the originals at his work place in Singapore.

 

As stated, a properly registered usufruct is written on both parts of the chanote. The copy the land owner holds, and the part kept at the land office. In addition, the usufruct is entered into the land office computer system. It doesn't matter if the land owner loses their chanote - a copy can be made by the land office. If the land owner loses their chanote and the local land office burns to the ground then the details are all on the nationwide computer system and a copy could be made.

 

Nothing stops a land owner selling a property that has a usufruct registered against it, but as stated, the usufruct survives the sale. However, if the usufruct is not being honoured then the case does have to go to Court if the police won't get involved.

[SpeakeasyThai]

So she finally got to you eh? Tell her before you go ahead you have to return back to your home nation for business reasons and you will be back in 3 weeks. Most likely she will have gotten her claws into 2nd on the list by then, and you will be free as a bird.

?

[catman20]

If your girlfriend is paying for the purchase, why would she give you legal rights over her property just because you bought some electrical appliances

 

he wants to protect his investment, some electrical appliances?   get a life mate. lets move on please.

[hellohello123]

2 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

Since the OP says his investment consists of buying a "TV, washer, etc", then I believe the documents he needs to prove ownership are the bill of sale in his name for the items. Other that a legal document that entitles him to stay in the property is a "Rental Contract".

Im sure your gf is "different" 

 

But the first thing that gets sold/damaged/thrown/pawned  in the event of a fight is all your stuff! 

[Destiny1990]

Hahahaha 

[GreasyFingers]

Check out this link for any information you need. The link is to superficies but the site has just about everything.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/real-rights/superficies-property-rights.html

[BritManToo]

19 hours ago, chris2224 said:

Financially works out fine...I will cease paying rent. However, longer term I am looking to protect my investment should things turn sour.

The better option is to not spend your money on anything you can't carry.

(Deduct 500-1000bht a shag from the goods you provide, assuming her SMV is higher than yours)

[Parsve]

It does not appear how much you will pay if it's just "repairs" and some furniture, etc. But it is normal for farrangs to pay the price of the purchase to the full cost of the purchase. If so, the best thing you can do is to divide the purchase into two parts, where you lend her money for the purchase of the plot while you are the owner of the house. You pay a low annual rent to her, which is deducted from the loan.

As long as she has loans on the plot she cannot sell and you can stay no matter what happens between you.

[newnative]

   Buy a condo in your name and then you can protect your investment.  Always nice to know you have a roof over your head.  

[KittenKong]

For the usufruct to be valid it would have been registered at the land office. If so his name would have been on the Chanotte so something else is not right?

The odds are that the original agreement was never validated by the Land Office and it was just some worthless document drawn up by a dodgy lawyer. The scams here are endless.

[chuang]

I would like to buy some furnitures and stay for free, and at the same time protect my so called investment, can you find any girl ask her to pm me. Thanks. 

[NCC1701A]

Hey op, is this really what you came to Thailand for?

 

keep it simple and forget all this excellent legal advice which you are never going to actually do in the real world.

 

 

 

 

[Parsve]

Another questíon is of course, why do farrangs not trust thai "ladies"? Is there maybe a lesson to learn there?