Qualifying for the Australian Aged Pension portability

[4MyEgo]

On 7/27/2018 at 6:58 PM, GreasyFingers said:

I was rejected 3 years ago as I could not prove that I was a resident, for pension purposes, even though I was still paying tax, and this was the advice given during 3 appeals.

Finally someone has posted what I had been saying all along, i.e. just because most people have their heads in the sand and think because they are paying tax as an Australian Resident when in fact they are not an Australian Resident as defined by the legislation (not cut and dry), but is in a number of ways, they get an awful awakening when the time comes.

 

There is a hell of a lot more in proving your an Australian Resident to Centrelink than paying tax as an Australian Resident, anyone can do that, just tick the tax form that your an Australian Resident oy.

 

They are two separate entities with two separate sets of rules, that said, learn the legislation, make the plan and if it's feasible for you to return for the 2 years to qualify for the AP, go for it, if not, well look at another way of surviving without the pension, but "don't ask me".  

 

GreasyFingers, I hope the ATO doesn't come looking for you as a Non Resident as there will be back taxes to pay.

Edited July 28, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[4MyEgo]

12 hours ago, Brickbat said:

“ Look what you can do for your country. Not what your country can do for you”. Stop whinging ! And don’t give me that bs about paying your frigging taxes.

 

Folks who pay a lot more in taxes, and continue to do so in retirement , as their assets which earn income, exceed the Means Test, do not get any Govt pension . 

 

I am one of those retired persons whose assets exceed the Means Test and do not get the Govt pension, that said, do not pay anymore tax, as I am a Non Resident for tax purposes.

 

Now why on earth would I want to continue paying taxes ?

 

Did you just write: "Look what you can do for your country, not what your country can do for you", did you say "Stop whining" and don't give you that bs about paying your fn taxes....lol

 

I suppose I am one of the fortunate ones who had the opportunity to bust his rear for endless hours a day and fortunate enough to invest in property to be able to ride the wave and get the fark out when the time came to get to Thailand and retire 10 years early, that said, I know exactly how all the blokes on TVF feel with this crap about having to return for 2 years, most of these blokes are genuine Australian Citizens who have worked all of their lives, paid their taxes and saw that the gravy train wasn't as tasteful as it was so decided to live somewhere else where it tastes better, why should they have to do 2 years to have "their" pension entitlement made portable by this ironic 2 year rule, its just unAustralian, like I said they worked for it, they are entitled to it, and just because some idiot says no, you have to stay here for 2 years, because the pension was intended to be spent in Australia is crazy, spend it in Australia how, have they looked at the cost of living, you cannot survive in Australia on the pension, unless you live off canned dog food or dry cat food, a steak sandwich and a Schooner will set you back $20 whereas a meal and a beer here will set you back $4.00, that's about 1/4.

 

Raise to AP to about $1,000 a week and sure they can live off of it, and do try to remember before opening your mouth, that there are a lot of people who qualify for the AP not having worked a single day in their lives, no taxes paid, then you get immigrants and refugees that come in which adds to the burden, so what are you saying, every Australian worker should work to carry others, give us a break mate.

 

I don't need the AP, but if I could find a way to get it, I would as I have paid 40 years worth of taxes, plus CGT many times over and because I made some coin to be able to live here comfortably in my early retirement means Jack Sheet back in Sydney, because I would have to go back to work. Now if I was a multi-millionaire fair enough, but I'm not, and if you want to serve Australia and keep paying taxes because of your assets, well go for it sucker, your perogative, I am not giving them one cent, legally, over supporting others as I am sure most are.

Edited July 28, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[Chrisdoc]

Totally irrelevant to the topic of this thread.

That is funny since you are the one who wrote "and Australia is also struggling to afford it". In a discussion about Australian pensions is it possible that the state of the Australian economy is slightly relevant. I copied and pasted from an easily found article on Norway saying "Last Wednesday, every single Norwegian became a millionaire – without having to lift a lillefinger. They owe the windfall to their coastline, and a huge dollop of good sense. Since 1990, Norway has been squirreling away its cash from North Sea oil and gas into a rainy-day fund". Australia has just wasted their mining resources.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[JWRC]

11 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

I am one of those retired persons whose assets exceed the Means Test and do not get the Govt pension, that said, do not pay anymore tax, as I am a Non Resident for tax purposes.

 

Now why on earth would I want to continue paying taxes ?

 

Did you just write: "Look what you can do for your country, not what your country can do for you", did you say "Stop whining" and don't give you that bs about paying your fn taxes....lol

 

I suppose I am one of the fortunate ones who had the opportunity to bust his rear for endless hours a day and fortunate enough to invest in property to be able to ride the wave and get the fark out when the time came to get to Thailand and retire 10 years early, that said, I know exactly how all the blokes on TVF feel with this crap about having to return for 2 years, most of these blokes are genuine Australian Citizens who have worked all of their lives, paid their taxes and saw that the gravy train wasn't as tasteful as it was so decided to live somewhere else where it tastes better, why should they have to do 2 years to have "their" pension entitlement made portable by this ironic 2 year rule, its just unAustralian, like I said they worked for it, they are entitled to it, and just because some idiot says no, you have to stay here for 2 years, because the pension was intended to be spent in Australia is crazy, spend it in Australia how, have they looked at the cost of living, you cannot survive in Australia on the pension, unless you live off canned dog food or dry cat food, a steak sandwich and a Schooner will set you back $20 whereas a meal and a beer here will set you back $4.00, that's about 1/4.

 

Raise to AP to about $1,000 a week and sure they can live off of it, and do try to remember before opening your mouth, that there are a lot of people who qualify for the AP not having worked a single day in their lives, no taxes paid, then you get immigrants and refugees that come in which adds to the burden, so what are you saying, every Australian worker should work to carry others, give us a break mate.

 

I don't need the AP, but if I could find a way to get it, I would as I have paid 40 years worth of taxes, plus CGT many times over and because I made some coin to be able to live here comfortably in my early retirement means Jack Sheet back in Sydney, because I would have to go back to work. Now if I was a multi-millionaire fair enough, but I'm not, and if you want to serve Australia and keep paying taxes because of your assets, well go for it sucker, your perogative, I am not giving them one cent, legally, over supporting others as I am sure most are.

Don't even think you are entitled to a pension, I made that mistake and was told in no uncertain terms by a lady at Centerlink, no one is entitled to a pension, a pension is a priviledge, not an entitlement. And from experience, don't rely on centerlink, always phone international services, where you have people who deal with this all the time and are much more likely to have the "correct" answers to your questions.

 

[rhodie]

On 7/27/2018 at 6:07 PM, JWRC said:

Poster Jame trim

 

You ask what do you do for 2 years in Australia with no ties, live under a bridge.

 

Well it is a difficult situation and one I completed last year at the age of 67. I didn't want to rent a place and be stuck in the cold in winter, or maybe have to furnish it and buy a whole heap of things I didn't want. Add to that I have no friends there,  So I did what most Aussies do in retirement I followed the sun, it was a rather modest way of doing it however, no flash Winnibago or Caravan, I purchased an old mini van, bought a few things on gumtree, like a stretcher bed, esky and the like and headed for the North (from Perth). Basically I was a retired Gypsy for 2 years. Not the easiest way at my age to live, however I did it, it was tough on occassions especially when rushed to Hospital with Bi Lateral Pulmonary embollism, and during that finding I also had quite a serious heart problem, a few other nasties along the way, but we do what we must. You are allowed out on holidays, during which time you don't get the pension if you are out more than 90 days, you have to start again.

 

I free camped a few days at a time and then would treat myself to a couple of nights in a caravan park, which I might add are very expensive now. I chose to do it this way and in some ways it was great, I got to see all the places I had been to in my working days, it was like opening the pages of a well read book and for the most part the travelling was great, met some really good people on the road. I also picked up some cash work here and there, nothing too difficult and it kept me going.

 

It was scary getting sick and being on my own, it was even more scary at some of the free stops, but that's because I am a woman and I guess I worry more than blokes, who are better able to care for themselves.

Whatever you do, look for the positives. Good Luck

Great story thanks. Glad you got the portable pension. I think you said you have been in Thailand for 20 years. So you were definitely not an Australian resident. It seems to gain portability if you serve the 2 years after getting to pensionable age, you have to "convince" CL that you are staying. How did that work in your case and did you need to do anything specific?

[GreasyFingers]

14 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

GreasyFingers, I hope the ATO doesn't come looking for you as a Non Resident as there will be back taxes to pay.

Yes that is a risk but I still use the same accountant to file my tax returns so hopefully that helps. With the low interest rates my income is well under the tax free threshold so the damage would not be too great as long as they do not include the small State pension I get.

A bigger risk is if they change the rules for qualifying for a Medicare card. Not that I need it now but as we get older you never know.

[GreasyFingers]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

They would not need a pension save for the incompetence of said pollies and public servants. ASIC ring any bells?

I would not be even looking at this topic if ASIC did their job. Lost nearly everything and had to go back to work while the company directors paid nothing and no time in jail even though it was pure theft.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, JWRC said:

Don't even think you are entitled to a pension, I made that mistake and was told in no uncertain terms by a lady at Centerlink, no one is entitled to a pension, a pension is a priviledge, not an entitlement. And from experience, don't rely on centerlink, always phone international services, where you have people who deal with this all the time and are much more likely to have the "correct" answers to your questions.

 

You got one of the feminazis in Centrelink who enjoy belittling people. They back off when they are asked to show the relevant legislation/regulation. You have to know your rights. When Centrelink screwed up with me, I wrote to my Federal MP. Two weeks later, I had a grovelling apology from Centrelink.

The best people to talk to in Centrelink are the Financial Services Officers. Appointment needed. They offer unbiased and practical advice - free.

 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, GreasyFingers said:

Yes that is a risk but I still use the same accountant to file my tax returns so hopefully that helps. With the low interest rates my income is well under the tax free threshold so the damage would not be too great as long as they do not include the small State pension I get.

A bigger risk is if they change the rules for qualifying for a Medicare card. Not that I need it now but as we get older you never know.

Yes, stick with the same accountant.

 

As for Medicare can't see any changes as you don't need an income to be on Medicare, just look around as to how many people do not work and are on it. As long as you keep renewing it every 5 years you should be fine, you can renew it online through MyGov if your registered, just tick, lost it every 4 and a half years, and they will send you another to your Oz address or PO Box as they do for me.

[canda]

2 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

Yes that is a risk but I still use the same accountant to file my tax returns so hopefully that helps. With the low interest rates my income is well under the tax free threshold so the damage would not be too great as long as they do not include the small State pension I get.

A bigger risk is if they change the rules for qualifying for a Medicare card. Not that I need it now but as we get older you never know.

Hi GreasyFingers,

I think you will find that being 'non resident' for tax purposes denotes you do not qualify for the tax free threshold that applies to residency, a 35 % tax rate is applicable!

CANDA.

[GreasyFingers]

6 minutes ago, canda said:

Hi GreasyFingers,

I think you will find that being 'non resident' for tax purposes denotes you do not qualify for the tax free threshold that applies to residency, a 35 % tax rate is applicable!

CANDA.

I am still a resident for tax purposes. 4myego was saying there is a chance that the ATO can change that which would be a problem.

[Thaipan68]

What Brickbat said on the 28/07/18 would be really one of the most crappest things I have seen for sometime

heaps of people here trying to  survive on the old age pension 

the funds they get from this sunburned country is not  enough to feed a cat 

 

[oxymoron]

1 hour ago, Thaipan68 said:

What Brickbat said on the 28/07/18 would be really one of the most crappest things I have seen for sometime

heaps of people here trying to  survive on the old age pension 

the funds they get from this sunburned country is not  enough to feed a cat 

 

Rubbish my father who spent from the age of 45 to 65 spending everything he could so as to ensure the AOP. Very sore point with me and my brothers.

He retired at 65 with ownership of the family home paid out at 65 a car (VL Commodore and $25,000) in the bank. Spent the rest of his life till 87 at the RSL Wyola club.

 

2years later  family home had to be sold ($465,000), to get mum into a nursing home. "Dad always said anybody with the same start as he", ie House, Car and a little cash, that did not have a good life on the AOP was a fool and a BS ter. They proved it as even though they had 3 new cars maintained the home paint, patios new airconditioners and paid fees to the nursing homes, I executed their estate at $600,000.

 

Disclaimer: Until 65 he and mum always worked (any job) , drank barrels of beer , smoked cartons of cigarettes until they entered the nursing homes. If you are struggling in Australia its your fault. Nobody else and certainly not the Government.

Do not forget it is the young struggling workers of today that are paying your OLD AGE PENSION

[Dazinoz]

13 minutes ago, oxymoron said:

Do not forget it is the young struggling workers of today that are paying your OLD AGE PENSION

BS. It is the pensioners themselves who worked for years paying taxes that pay for their own pension. 

[JWRC]

rhondie

I didn't try to convince anyone I was staying in excess of 2 years, I just said that I had returned to Australia because I was pension age, you don't have to convince them you are there for life, the present law is that you are a resident for 2 years, as such you need an address etc etc, what you decide to do after that 2 years is up to you.

Something I did learn was that had someone been out of the country for a lesser period than I, say 3 years and when applying used the term that you had been on an extended visit to family in Thailand for that period you would get the pension without a fight, if you tell them you have been living in Thailand, they will probably knock you back and you will have to appeal. that's when the problems start, it's all in the wording. A world of difference between visiting and living.

 

Incidentially when I left Australia after the 2 years, Medicare is cancelled.

[Dazinoz]

41 minutes ago, JWRC said:

Incidentially when I left Australia after the 2 years, Medicare is cancelled.

On a recent trip to Oz I used Medicare. I had been gone 4 1/2 years and was still ok. I asked about if out of Australia a long time what would happen. She said after 1 year immigration lets them know and you account is suspended and can be activated with in a few minutes at a Medicare office. After 5 years you have to prove you are living back in Australia including Thai lease agreement terminated and Thai bank account closed. Being stupid I said I had been gone so long. She went out the back and came back in and said I now have to close your account.Standing at her counter her telling me an Australian is not entitled to Medicare after being out of country so long. At next counter 2 swedish ladies were getting their cards. So I mumbled something about long term Australians not entitled but immigrants can come in and get it immediately.

[ELVIS123456]

1 hour ago, Dazinoz said:

On a recent trip to Oz I used Medicare. I had been gone 4 1/2 years and was still ok. I asked about if out of Australia a long time what would happen. She said after 1 year immigration lets them know and you account is suspended and can be activated with in a few minutes at a Medicare office. After 5 years you have to prove you are living back in Australia including Thai lease agreement terminated and Thai bank account closed. Being stupid I said I had been gone so long. She went out the back and came back in and said I now have to close your account.Standing at her counter her telling me an Australian is not entitled to Medicare after being out of country so long. At next counter 2 swedish ladies were getting their cards. So I mumbled something about long term Australians not entitled but immigrants can come in and get it immediately.

Lesson to all Aussie blokes living/staying in Thailand - tell Aussie women nothing - not a damn thing. 

Tell nothing to anyone working at any Govt Department - same applies to the males, but especially the women.

Whether they be CLink or DHS or Hospital or any other - tell them nothing. 

Avoid answering any questions.

If you must answer, then clarify exactly what they are asking before you do and know what info you have to provide.

 

The best way to think about it is this:

You are an Aussie bloke enjoying life in Thailand with lovely Thai ladies - they all dislike you and want to take you down.

They will take anything you say and screw you over - they will pretend to be OK and just trying to help, to get you to talk.

And as soon as you admit something they can use they will cut your b***s off.

 

[4MyEgo]

On 7/29/2018 at 3:57 PM, GreasyFingers said:

I am still a resident for tax purposes. 4myego was saying there is a chance that the ATO can change that which would be a problem.

Best to just keep going the ways your going mate as there are a lot of people the ATO has to deal with and hopefully by the time they get to you, i.e. if they do, your number would have been up in the year 2070 ?

 

If they did catch up with you beforehand, you could always play ignorant and say guys, I really don't understand, what are you saying, I am an Australian Citizen, and I am an Australian Resident, same thing right, that's why I kept ticking Australian Resident on my tax form, same thing.

 

Playing dumb could actually work, back payment on your taxes, i.e. the difference from Australian Resident to Non Resident, with hopefully a very small fine and no jail time and you'll be right, but do tell them that you are struggling and if they can work out a payment plan for you over the next 25 years ?

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, oxymoron said:

Rubbish my father who spent from the age of 45 to 65 spending everything he could so as to ensure the AOP. Very sore point with me and my brothers.

He retired at 65 with ownership of the family home paid out at 65 a car (VL Commodore and $25,000) in the bank. Spent the rest of his life till 87 at the RSL Wyola club.

 

2years later  family home had to be sold ($465,000), to get mum into a nursing home. "Dad always said anybody with the same start as he", ie House, Car and a little cash, that did not have a good life on the AOP was a fool and a BS ter. They proved it as even though they had 3 new cars maintained the home paint, patios new airconditioners and paid fees to the nursing homes, I executed their estate at $600,000.

 

Disclaimer: Until 65 he and mum always worked (any job) , drank barrels of beer , smoked cartons of cigarettes until they entered the nursing homes. If you are struggling in Australia its your fault. Nobody else and certainly not the Government.

Do not forget it is the young struggling workers of today that are paying your OLD AGE PENSION

Your last sentence just shows your not in touch with reality and a hell of a lot of people don't live in Wyola Western Australia.

 

You also simply overlooked that not everyone is fortunate like your father to have owned a house, i.e. not everyone owns a property, there are people that rent and depending on where they live in Australia, rents vary, and that is where it all starts because the pension as I said is not enough for those to survive on, i.e. just look up realestate.com for a one bedroom unit to rent in say Kogarah which is about 20 kilometres out of Sydney heading south, you would be lucky find something for around $400 per week with parking, and there goes your pension, unless you rent a place in the surrounding areas of Wyola, like Cunderdin where you can get a house on average for about $250 per week ?

 

The above said, if one was fortunate enough to own a property that was under the asset threshold, they would be just scrapping in their existence, especially if they lived in Sydney and running a car with the associated costs to run one, i.e. insurance, services, tyres replacement costs etc etc, if living in a strata development, unit/villa/townhouse those strata levies would run into the thousands of dollars annually, and that's not including any special levies that might be struck up, so you could say if you just put the car and strata levies together, the pension would be reduced by $4-$5k per annum, and if they own a house, well, getting tradies in to the do the work on the upkeep would be more than strata levies per annum.

 

What's the pension for a single person these days, $23,600 per annum with all the supplements, take away say $5k for the above, your down to $18,600 then you have petrol, weekly food bill, and if you like a beer, well what's a carton of a decent beer worth, I could go on, but I know it ain't enough to live off i.e. if you are wanting a quality life. I say that because my mum would just scrap it in and she owned her own unit, and car, not a pretty existence in my opinion for someone who worked all of their life and paid their taxes, fortunately she is now in a nursing home and getting better care then she could have afforded on her own.

 

So before you tell us how your parents survived on cartons of smokes and barrels of alcohol, 3 new cars, maintained the home etc etc, I reckon your stretching the truth a bit, the smokes and alcohol I will believe, but the new cars and maintaining the house would have come out of savings that you probably weren't aware of ? 

Edited August 2, 2018 by 4MyEgo

[rhodie]

5 hours ago, JWRC said:

rhondie

I didn't try to convince anyone I was staying in excess of 2 years, I just said that I had returned to Australia because I was pension age, you don't have to convince them you are there for life, the present law is that you are a resident for 2 years, as such you need an address etc etc, what you decide to do after that 2 years is up to you.

Something I did learn was that had someone been out of the country for a lesser period than I, say 3 years and when applying used the term that you had been on an extended visit to family in Thailand for that period you would get the pension without a fight, if you tell them you have been living in Thailand, they will probably knock you back and you will have to appeal. that's when the problems start, it's all in the wording. A world of difference between visiting and living.

 

Incidentially when I left Australia after the 2 years, Medicare is cancelled.

Thanks for the update @JWRC. I have been traveling for 18 months. Still have close to 4 years to get to aged pension. In that time I have been back to OZ 5 times for 3 to 5 weeks at a time, plus 3 other countries. Still have a unit there and everything else that goes with being a resident. I may be safe, but I will decide 2 years out what to do as things change yearly unfortunately. I just hope we don't get to the stage too soon where they stop the aged pension if you leave the country.

[rhodie]

23 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Your last sentence just shows your not in touch with reality and a hell of a lot of people don't live in Wyola Western Australia.

 

You also simply overlooked that not everyone is fortunate like your father to have owned a house, i.e. not everyone owns a property, there are people that rent and depending on where they live in Australia, rents vary, and that is where it all starts because the pension as I said is not enough for those to survive on, i.e. just look up realestate.com for a one bedroom unit to rent in say Kogarah which is about 20 kilometres out of Sydney heading south, you would be lucky find something for around $400 per week with parking, and there goes your pension, unless you rent a place in the surrounding areas of Wyola, like Cunderdin where you can get a house on average for about $250 per week ?

 

The above said, if one was fortunate enough to own a property that was under the asset threshold, they would be just scrapping in their existence, especially if they lived in Sydney and running a car with the associated costs to run one, i.e. insurance, services, tyres replacement costs etc etc, if living in a strata development, unit/villa/townhouse those strata levies would run into the thousands of dollars annually, and that's not including any special levies that might be struck up, so you could say if you just put the car and strata levies together, the pension would be reduced by $4-$5k per annum, and if they own a house, well, getting tradies in to the do the work on the upkeep would be more than strata levies per annum.

 

What's the pension for a single person these days, $23,600 per annum with all the supplements, take away say $5k for the above, your down to $18,600 then you have petrol, weekly food bill, and if you like a beer, well what's a carton of a decent beer worth, I could go on, but I know it ain't enough to live off i.e. if you are wanting a quality life. I say that because my mum would just scrap it in and she owned her own unit, and car, not a pretty existence in my opinion for someone who worked all of their life and paid their taxes, fortunately she is now in a nursing home and getting better care then she could have afforded on her own.

 

So before you tell us how your parents survived on cartons of smokes and barrels of alcohol, 3 new cars, maintained the home etc etc, I reckon your stretching the truth a bit, the smokes and alcohol I will believe, but the new cars and maintaining the house would have come out of savings that you probably weren't aware of ? 

Being able to live on the aged pension is really in the category of how long is a piece of string. I know many guys who have no assets and live on the pension in Sydney. Some share houses and pay around $200 a week. There is a place I know where you can get a 1 br unit for $270 a week in an upper North Shore suburb. These guys are always presentable and I see them at the club most nights having a few beers. The happy ones don't gamble. Much the same as how much does it cost to live in Thailand. Some are happy on 30K to 40K a month. Others can't live on 100k a month.

[Thaipan68]

20 hours ago, oxymoron said:

Rubbish my father who spent from the age of 45 to 65 spending everything he could so as to ensure the AOP. Very sore point with me and my brothers.

He retired at 65 with ownership of the family home paid out at 65 a car (VL Commodore and $25,000) in the bank. Spent the rest of his life till 87 at the RSL Wyola club.

 

2years later  family home had to be sold ($465,000), to get mum into a nursing home. "Dad always said anybody with the same start as he", ie House, Car and a little cash, that did not have a good life on the AOP was a fool and a BS ter. They proved it as even though they had 3 new cars maintained the home paint, patios new airconditioners and paid fees to the nursing homes, I executed their estate at $600,000.

 

Disclaimer: Until 65 he and mum always worked (any job) , drank barrels of beer , smoked cartons of cigarettes until they entered the nursing homes. If you are struggling in Australia its your fault. Nobody else and certainly not the Government.

Do not forget it is the young struggling workers of today that are paying your OLD AGE PENSION

Oxymoron sorry if I  offended you 

For one I am only putting forward what I see in my job day today in regards to older  Australians

Not all of them were as lucky as your  parents 

most of  pensioners in Australia have already spent their life’s paying tax’s for their share of an old age  pension 

sadly you don’t get back what you put in 

I really don’t understand your comment in your post( very sore point with me and my brothers)

are you  referring to lost  inheritance 

cheers