Major Change Eff 1 Apr 19 in Bangkok Bank ACH Transfers

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

BTW, the specific advice I got from the NY Branch staff regarding U.S. domestic wires being sent to the NY Branch and then onward to Thailand was for the senders, like you and me, to list our Thailand address and country for the recipient information. And if the sending entity's wire transfer setup doesn't specifically require that kind of info, my contact encouraged us to include the Thailand address information in some other area, such as in under "Remarks" or "Directions" etc etc.

 

Well, that would say they're trying to gather all the data elements the Feds want for international transfers. Which is probably good enough to claim due diligence.

 

And, to add to the amusement of this drill .... When I implemented via phone with USAA the establishment of my international wire template (you reference this template when you phone in a transfer request, needing only to indicate the amount to send), when they asked who the recipient would be, I said myself. At which they said, ok, we already have your physical address on file with us. And it's a US address. I really think the SWIFT (and IAT) data boxes for recipient address are looking for the foreign address. But, hey, if I were a tourist, wiring money to myself in a foreign country, when they ask, "what's your address?", why wouldn't I just give my US home address (unless they specifically ask for your temporary foreign vacation address -- and I'm not sure how they word this on a SWIFT wire transfer request?).

Anyway, just a passing curiosity. When I use the template for the first time, they may ask for a foreign address -- we'll see. Oh, of course the most important data element is "purpose of wire." Which, of course, to see if anyone's listening, I put: "To purchase yaba and meth." (NOT!)

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

Anyway, just a passing curiosity. When I use the template for the first time, they may ask for a foreign address -- we'll see. Oh, of course the most important data element is "purpose of wire." Which, of course, to see if anyone's listening, I put: "To purchase yaba and meth." (NOT!)

 

When I send an online domestic wire via Schwab, there is no information field relating to them asking the purpose of the wire. Nothing at all about that.

 

But, under the recipient accountholder address and country field, there is a pull down box that allows the selection of U.S. or any other international country, including Thailand. (That doesn't, however, mean you can send directly to a foreign bank, as the domestic wire transfer system only allows sending to U.S. ABA routing addresses, which perhaps only a small share of foreign banks with U.S. branches may have.)

 

I think that reflects the notion that the "country" of the recipient accountholder is not always necessarily the same location as the recipient bank account. 

 

As you suggested, it's perfectly ordinary for a U.S. tourist (address of accountholder in the U.S.) to be wiring funds for travel to an account elsewhere. Or, in the reverse, a Thai citizen in Thailand to be wiring funds to a U.S. bank account that they or some relation may have there.

 

The one thing I don't know, is do other U.S. domestic wire transfer sending institutions have the same ability to report the recipient accountholder as having an address outside the U.S.?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

 

Below is the US Treasury Rule published 11 Sep 17 that probably forced the Bangkok Bank IAT policy change in early 2018.  Where the rule talkes "Gateway" that means a financial institution that is the gateway in allowing funds to leave or enter the US....like how Bangkok Bank NY branch is a Gateway for your funds to be flowed from your US bank to your in-Thailand Bangkok Bank branch.  OFAC means Office of Foreign Assets Control within the US Treasury.

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/09/11/2017-19135/federal-government-participation-in-the-automated-clearing-house

[JimGant]

Quote

This modification requires a Gateway to identify within an Inbound IAT Entry (1) the ultimate foreign beneficiary of the funds transfer when the proceeds from a debit Inbound IAT Entry are for further credit to an ultimate foreign beneficiary that is a party other than the Originator of the debit IAT Entry,

If I understand the above, which most likely I don't, if the beneficiary is also the originator, no need for these additional IAT data elements. And, all my ACH transfers are from me, to me.  Hmmmm.

Edited March 31, 2019 by JimGant

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

55 minutes ago, JimGant said:

If I understand the above, which most likely I don't, if the beneficiary is also the originator, no need for these additional IAT data elements. And, all my ACH transfers are from me, to me.  Hmmmm.

 

That's what I wondered about too, in reading it. But frankly, I couldn't quite interpret whether or not it was supposed to mean that me-to-me transfers would be exempt. In the end, I kinda guessed they did NOT mean that.... but still not sure.

 

[Pib]

Who's on first....

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Who's on first....

 

FWIW, the BKKB TH website as of today/Sunday still refers to the April 1 cutoff date for ACH transfers via the NY branch.

 

However, the ACH transfer I sent to them last Thurs was debited from my sending account and has not been returned or rejected thus far, now being Sunday. So I'm inclined to believe my contact at BKKB NY when they told me Friday that the branch will NOT begin rejecting ACH transfers, despite what their TH website still says.

 

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

FWIW, the BKKB TH website as of today/Sunday still refers to the April 1 cutoff date for ACH transfers via the NY branch.

 

However, the ACH transfer I sent to them last Thurs was debited from my sending account and has not been returned or rejected thus far, now being Sunday. So I'm inclined to believe my contact at BKKB NY when they told me Friday that the branch will NOT begin rejecting ACH transfers, despite what their TH website still says.

 

Yea, but since you initiated the transfer before the 1 Apr date that earlier initiation/sending date is probably in the transfer coding which "may" be the date Bangkok Bank NY uses for acceptance/rejection purposes date-wise. 

 

It would really take a bank transfer initiated on or after 1 Apr to be sure....to determine if Bangkok Bank NY is going to let non-IAT ACH transfers sent from a bank to continue to flow for a while longer.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

It would really take a bank transfer initiated on or after 1 Apr to be sure....to determine if Bangkok Bank NY is going to let non-IAT ACH transfers sent from a bank to continue to flow for a while longer.

 

I have no reason to doubt what my contact at BKKB NY, who handles transfers there, told me about the cutoff date having been postponed...

 

But you're correct -- the way to know with absolute certainty will be what becomes of any post April 1 initiated ACH transfers to BKKB NY.

[Langsuan Man]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I have no reason to doubt what my contact at BKKB NY, who handles transfers there, told me about the cutoff date having been postponed...

 

But you're correct -- the way to know with absolute certainty will be what becomes of any post April 1 initiated ACH transfers to BKKB NY.

Well I will be the guinea pig and initiate an, under $50 semi free,  EFTS transfer via Bangkok Banks New York Branch as soon as the clocks change over to April 1st in the US (CDT)

[mackayae]

Keep us posted LM.

[Langsuan Man]

3 hours ago, mackayae said:

Keep us posted LM.

[Pib]

6 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

Well I will be the guinea pig and initiate an, under $50 semi free,  EFTS transfer via Bangkok Banks New York Branch as soon as the clocks change over to April 1st in the US (CDT)

Thanks, LM.  And you are hereby presented below award.  ????

 

Seriously, though....thanks.   With the transfer being initiated on or after 1 Apr it will be good test.

 

If Bangkok Bank rejects it, the rejection code back to USAA should be R85.  I know this because I came across a post somewhere several months ago where some Amazon affiliates trying to do some transfer payments through Bangkok Bank New York to Thailand  where getting their transfers rejected back with an R85 rejection code and IAT format was being discussed.  Apparently Bangkok Bank NY had started rejecting certain business payments not in IAT format well before the 1 Apr 19 date set for a typical, common-man transfers. 

 

ACH Rejection Codes

https://gusto.com/ach_return_codes

 

 

 

[richsilver]

I initiated a transfer this morning from E-Trade in the US to Bangkok Bank.  I'll keep everyone posted.

[marcusarelus]

My VA disability check always comes on the first and is not here yet.  Anyone else?

[soisanuk]

16 hours ago, Pib said:

Apparently Bangkok Bank NY had started rejecting certain business payments not in IAT format well before the 1 Apr 19 date set for a typical, common-man transfers.

 

When Bangkok Bank initially announced the April 1, 2019 deadline for ACH transfers, it was for those that had already established the process for transfers to their Bangkok Bank Account.  At that time, they announced that anyone wishing to establish the process, the transfer(s) would need to be in the IAT format at that time.  So, most likely the business transactions mentioned were returned because they were not previously established.  Thanks though for providing the code that is used.  Also, will be interested in results for those that were already established that try to make an ACH transfer after April 1, 2019.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

My VA disability check always comes on the first and is not here yet.  Anyone else?

My VA payment goes to a US bank and it's showing in my ibanking already but has "Pending" status next to it.  This was as of 10:50pm/1 Apr US east coast time or 9:50am/2 Apr Thailand time.  So if my US bank is still showing "Pending" status (i.e., hasn't fully posted yet) and since it's still early here in this Thailand day, hopefully you'll see it post to your Bangkok Bank acct sometime today/2 Apr assuming Bangkok Bank NY let it thru.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

FYI, I got my U.S. BKKB NY domestic ACH transfer credited to my BKKB TH account this morning, everything more or less normal.

 

Initiated it from my U.S. bank last Thursday, and it likely would have arrived BKKB NY on Friday, both prior to the supposed April 1 cutoff date. I don't think their ACH handling process proceeds over the weekend normally. So then it arrived this morning/Tuesday to Thailand. Exchange rate 31.55 to the dollar.

 

So, the NY end of that all got done before April 1... But I'm still continuing to believe my contact at BKKB NY who advised that they are NOT implementing the April 1 cutoff despite the bank's prior public statement of planning to do so.

 

Waiting to hear what will happen with Langsuan Man's April 1 ACH transfer... And that of Richsilver too via E*Trade.

 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Waiting to hear what will happen with Langsuan Man's April 1 ACH transfer...

Sure hope Langsuan Man's transfer comes through otherwise I'll have to recall his award.  ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

Sure hope Langsuan Man's transfer comes through otherwise I'll have to recall his award.  ????

 

So for ACH via BKKB NY instead of wires, I'm guessing the normal arrival date here for something started Monday in the U.S. should be Thurs here plus or minus maybe one day.... Tick tock....

 

[Langsuan Man]

 

 

Seems be working at least for one day

 

 I guess "my award" is safe

Edited April 2, 2019 by Langsuan Man

[Pib]

48 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So for ACH via BKKB NY instead of wires, I'm guessing the normal arrival date here for something started Monday in the U.S. should be Thurs here plus or minus maybe one day.... Tick tock....

 

I did a couple of ACH transfers from USAA to Bkk Bk over the last year....one arrived next business day....the other in two business days.    I think that's purely because USAA pushes out ACH transfers pretty fast....where some banks not-so-fast.  Or maybe I just hit the timing gates just right.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Pib

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

 

 

Seems be working at least for one day

Good deal....award well earned.  Thanks.

 

And this means US govt payments not in IAT format (like a SSA payment for a family member) should come thru no problem....will know that answer o/a 3 or 4 Apr.

Edited April 2, 2019 by Pib

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

Good deal....award well earned.  Thanks.

 

And this means US govt payments not in IAT format (like a SSA payment for a family member) should come thru no problem....will know that answer o/a 3 or 4 Apr.

Mine just came to Bangkok Bank - Dept of Vet has transferred xxxxx from abroad into xxxxx 11:15 AM

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

56 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

 

 

Seems be working at least for one day

 

 I guess "my award" is safe

 

That's great... but timing is weird....

 

You initiated an ACH via BKKB NY on Monday from the U.S., and it arrived here Tuesday morning.

 

I initiated an ACH via BKKB NY on Thursday from the U.S., and it arrived here Tuesday morning!!!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

BUT THE MAIN POINT IS -- BKKB NY for ACH is still up and running... no April 1 cutoff...

 

The only problem is, for right now, we still have no idea for how long it's going to remain open and viable.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

You initiated an ACH via BKKB NY on Monday from the U.S., and it arrived here Tuesday morning.

My last several USAA ACH transfers have all arrived in less than 24 hours (all during the business week). I submitted my requests to USAA at 10:30 AM Thai time (10:30 PM USAA time). The last three arrival times to my BB account were: 09:21; 09:51; and 10:02 Thai time. I know the old days of once per day batch ACH transfers is no more (now, at least three). But I wonder if anything was happening during those 9 hours between arrival in Texas, and the doors opening at BB NY. I suppose, with automation, bank operations are probably 24/7, at least maybe for electronic transfers..... (?).

Or, maybe not, as you'll not see any electronic transfers arriving into your BB account on a Sunday.

Edited April 2, 2019 by JimGant

[Pib]

19 minutes ago, JimGant said:

My last several USAA ACH transfers have all arrived in less than 24 hours (all during the business week). I submitted my requests to USAA at 10:30 AM Thai time (10:30 PM USAA time). The last three arrival times to my BB account were: 09:21; 09:51; and 10:02 Thai time. I know the old days of once per day batch ACH transfers is no more (now, at least three). But I wonder if anything was happening during those 9 hours between arrival in Texas, and the doors opening at BB NY. I suppose, with automation, bank operations are probably 24/7, at least maybe for electronic transfers..... (?).

Or, maybe not, as you'll not see any electronic transfers arriving into your BB account on a Sunday.

There are indeed at least three ACH batch cutoff times per day available in the ACH system; however, that does not mean your bank uses all three....the bank may use just one....or two...or three...up to the bank.   There is even same day settlement available...but once again, it up to the bank if they want to use it...or charge extra for it.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Mine just came to Bangkok Bank - Dept of Vet has transferred xxxxx from abroad into xxxxx 11:15 AM

Now the question.  Was the payment in IAT format or not? 

 

If in IAT (and maybe always has been) then the 1 Apr deadline had no effect on it.  Had you asked/confirmed before how your VA payment were arriving...that is, arriving in IAT format or non-IAT format? 

 

But as we are seeing even non-IAT "bank" transfers are still arriving so Bangkok Bank NY is apparently still letting thru non-IAT payments.  What changed?  Maybe they got a deadline extension....maybe figured out another way to continue non-IAT payments...maybe (you fill-in this blank).  Wondering...wondering. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As I mentioned here previously, my contact at BKKB NY referred to the current status as a postponement of the ACH cutoff, not a reversal or cancellation of it.

 

So the question right now remains, postponed for how long?  On that point, I couldn't get even an inkling of an answer...

 

So in the meantime, use it while you still can!!!

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Now the question.  Was the payment in IAT format or not? 

 

If in IAT (and maybe always has been) then the 1 Apr deadline had no effect on it.  Had you asked/confirmed before how your VA payment were arriving...that is, arriving in IAT format or non-IAT format? 

 

But as we are seeing even non-IAT "bank" transfers are still arriving so Bangkok Bank NY is apparently still letting thru non-IAT payments.  What changed?  Maybe they got a deadline extension....maybe figured out another way to continue non-IAT payments...maybe (you fill-in this blank).  Wondering...wondering. 

When I checked with them by phone and they looked up my transactions they told me they were in IAT.  I posted it a while back.  Talked to the same lady as you if I remember correctly.