Thai Labour Law: Royal Decree blows work permits wide open

[thedemon]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

It most certainly is their job. Where have you been?

 

They are the boss as far as visas, extensions and enforcement is concerned. Police seem to be busy with blatant criminality such as false stamps. That's the way it works. Take it from some one who has been in the trenches a while.

That's correct. It's not Labour Department officers that will be sneaking around your place of work, it's Immigration.

[MartinBangkok]

3 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Explain the system ?? 

 

90 day reporting is a requirement on all long stay extensions (and visas over 90 days). 

They don't check if you've you done 90 day reporting when you annually renew your work permit. When they see you have a recent entry stamp in your passport (maximim 90 days old) thats all they check.

[smutcakes]

I have read the article and all of the comments and for the life of me i cannot work out what this practically means? It seems to be saying that a person can get  work permit and then change jobs and work wherever and whatever they want provided its not on the prohibited list. I frankly find that difficult to believe as it makes the whole work permit issue completely non nonsensical, and is simply to big a jump to contemplate. I think there is misunderstanding and possible poor information circulating on this.

 

The article by the law firm does not really clear it up, if anything makes it even more difficult to understand (perhaps on purpose).

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, thedemon said:

That's correct. It's not Labour Department officers that will be sneaking around your place of work, it's Immigration.

Immigration police/officers work under the same banner.

Work without a WP is illegal. That's why they arrest people for illgal working.

They are not involved in the issue of WP's but being police they have the power to arrest you for working without one.

Many of them don't know the visa/extension requirements for supporting a WP.

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

I have read the article and all of the comments and for the life of me i cannot work out what this practically means? It seems to be saying that a person can get  work permit and then change jobs and work wherever and whatever they want provided its not on the prohibited list. I frankly find that difficult to believe as it makes the whole work permit issue completely non nonsensical, and is simply to big a jump to contemplate. I think there is misunderstanding and possible poor information circulating on this.

 

The article by the law firm does not really clear it up, if anything makes it even more difficult to understand (perhaps on purpose).

The words that are conspicuous by their abscence are holders of a WP working for a legally registered Thai Company may no longer be limited to working in the area specified in their work permit.

All other previous requirements for issue of the WP remain unchanged.

Edited July 31, 2018 by overherebc

[CLW]

I think this is a Royal Decree - straight from the King. But yes - wouldn't it be wonderful if the 90-Day Reporting were done away with. But I dream too much - ha ha!

And remove the re-entry permit nonsense.
Does any other country in the world actually have something like this?
And then like almost everything related to Immigration stuff it comes with a fee.
I'm still surprised that the 90 day report is free...

[overherebc]

3 hours ago, chrisinth said:

"As a consequence, any foreigner who has a work permit in Thailand may now, work anywhere, for anyone (including themselves), under any conditions, and do any type of work, that is not excluded by the Official List."
 

The above is an extract from the link in the OP. IMO, there are going to be a great number of readers and WP holders disappointed if they take this literally. 

 

To me this says, as an example, that William Smith, who has a WP for teaching could open a flower display consultancy firm (in the wife's name) and work in that firm on the same work permit issued for teaching, with no problems?

 

Not going to happen. Really badly worded quoting from the law firm that issued these statements. Amazed that Phuket Times would even run this without thinking through what the above statement, reference working "anywhere, for anyone, under any conditions and do any type of work" would mean and more to the point how it would be exploited very, very quickly.

Teaching people the names of the flowers in english and latin??

Joking of course.

[chrisinth]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Teaching people the names of the flowers in english and latin??

Joking of course.

Naturally 

[melvinmelvin]

13 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Teaching people the names of the flowers in english and latin??

Joking of course.

 

Isn't there a free "Ask the lawyer" service here on TV that could be consulted re the interpretation of changes to the

relevant WP stipulations?

 

Or has that been discontinued?

 

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

Isn't there a free "Ask the lawyer" service here on TV that could be consulted re the interpretation of changes to the

relevant WP stipulations?

 

Or has that been discontinued?

 

If you got an answer, similar to the statement in the OP,  from another lawyer you'd be taking one step forward and 3 backwards.

My answer is the same as many others.

You might be able, now, to do the work described in your already existing WP in another location not only the one noted in your existing WP.

Edited July 31, 2018 by overherebc

[seancbk]

"As a consequence, any foreigner who has a work permit in Thailand may now, work anywhere, for anyone (including themselves), under any conditions, and do any type of work, that is not excluded by the Official List."

This is a game changer. 

I know people here who have more than one business, but because until now you could only work for one company they've been unable to legally do work in their other businesses.  Now apparently they will be able to do work in all their different businesses.  

It also says 'For anyone (including themselves)'.   In discussions with other business owners we wonder if this implies foreigners will be able to operate 'sole proprietorships' ie have a business without only themselves in the business.   

 

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, seancbk said:

"As a consequence, any foreigner who has a work permit in Thailand may now, work anywhere, for anyone (including themselves), under any conditions, and do any type of work, that is not excluded by the Official List."

This is a game changer. 

I know people here who have more than one business, but because until now you could only work for one company they've been unable to legally do work in their other businesses.  Now apparently they will be able to do work in all their different businesses.  

It also says 'For anyone (including themselves)'.   In discussions with other business owners we wonder if this implies foreigners will be able to operate 'sole proprietorships' ie have a business without only themselves in the business.   

 

Sole proprietorships, as a new business, no chance.

It all refers to people who already have a work permit.

Read the first twelve words of your post.

[seancbk]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

13 minutes ago, seancbk said:

"As a consequence, any foreigner who has a work permit in Thailand may now, work anywhere, for anyone (including themselves), under any conditions, and do any type of work, that is not excluded by the Official List."

This is a game changer. 

I know people here who have more than one business, but because until now you could only work for one company they've been unable to legally do work in their other businesses.  Now apparently they will be able to do work in all their different businesses.  

It also says 'For anyone (including themselves)'.   In discussions with other business owners we wonder if this implies foreigners will be able to operate 'sole proprietorships' ie have a business without only themselves in the business.   

 

Sole proprietorships, as a new business, no chance.

It all refers to people who already have a work permit.

Read the first twelve words of your post.

Yes, I see what you are saying.   But we wondered if it will be possible to get a work permit to 'work for yourself'.   We've been expecting some change to allow what most of you call 'digital nomads' to legally work here.   

I'm not surprised they've made these changes, as the original law was seriously out of date and needed to be updated for modern business needs.

 

 

[Time Traveller]

25 minutes ago, seancbk said:

"As a consequence, any foreigner who has a work permit in Thailand may now, work anywhere, for anyone (including themselves), under any conditions, and do any type of work, that is not excluded by the Official List."

This is a game changer. 

I know people here who have more than one business, but because until now you could only work for one company they've been unable to legally do work in their other businesses.  Now apparently they will be able to do work in all their different businesses.  

It also says 'For anyone (including themselves)'.   In discussions with other business owners we wonder if this implies foreigners will be able to operate 'sole proprietorships' ie have a business without only themselves in the business.   

 

somehow I don't think too many employers - you know, the company that actually sponsors the work permit - are going to be to pleased to hear their foreign workers need to some time off to go work in their other job/business that they can now legally do because they don't need a work permit for it.

[overherebc]

12 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Yes, I see what you are saying.   But we wondered if it will be possible to get a work permit to 'work for yourself'.   We've been expecting some change to allow what most of you call 'digital nomads' to legally work here.   

I'm not surprised they've made these changes, as the original law was seriously out of date and needed to be updated for modern business needs.

 

 

I see as intended as a fix for the many problems they had with the regjstration of migrant workers.

It gets rid of the need to re-register in another province if the employer has a new contract in the new province.

It gives Thai companies the flexibility to move their work force where required without waiting days/weeks for paperwork.

[overherebc]

19 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Yes, I see what you are saying.   But we wondered if it will be possible to get a work permit to 'work for yourself'.   We've been expecting some change to allow what most of you call 'digital nomads' to legally work here.   

I'm not surprised they've made these changes, as the original law was seriously out of date and needed to be updated for modern business needs.

 

 

Digital nomads will, to be legal, need a WP. 

Requirements for a WP are not mentioned and remain the same.

[seancbk]

16 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

45 minutes ago, seancbk said:

"As a consequence, any foreigner who has a work permit in Thailand may now, work anywhere, for anyone (including themselves), under any conditions, and do any type of work, that is not excluded by the Official List."

This is a game changer. 

I know people here who have more than one business, but because until now you could only work for one company they've been unable to legally do work in their other businesses.  Now apparently they will be able to do work in all their different businesses.  

It also says 'For anyone (including themselves)'.   In discussions with other business owners we wonder if this implies foreigners will be able to operate 'sole proprietorships' ie have a business without only themselves in the business.   

 

 

somehow I don't think too many employers - you know, the company that actually sponsors the work permit - are going to be to pleased to hear their foreign workers need to some time off to go work in their other job/business that they can now legally do because they don't need a work permit for it.

What difference does it make if your employees want to take a second job?   So long as the employee does the work they are paid to do for you, why does it matter if they then work at another job after they finish at work for you.   Doing so is quite common around the world.   

[seancbk]

16 minutes ago, overherebc said:

I see as intended as a fix for the many problems they had with the regjstration of migrant workers.

It gets rid of the need to re-register in another province if the employer has a new contract in the new province.

It gives Thai companies the flexibility to move their work force where required without waiting days/weeks for paperwork.

Yes, it pays to remember that these changes were not made to make it easier for Western foreigners.   

[Horace]

On 7/30/2018 at 10:33 AM, PoorSucker said:

Don't get to excited, this applies to conducting business meetings, sale exhibitions and such. 

You can now attend a conference without a WP. 

Participants in culture events and entertainers can also "work" without a work permit if they are entering from "time to time" to do so.  In other words, a foreigner cannot get a multiple entry visa and sing "Hotel California" in the same bar for a year. 

 

It sounds ridiculous, but foreigners were getting arrested in Chiang Mai for "working" when sitting in bar and singing for a few nights, juggling or putting on a magic show.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Horace
Missing ?

[Horace]

23 hours ago, zib said:

I am not sure now also. Googling indeed says that you need 4 for every 1 work permit. But I've had a WP for 3 years now (renewed every year) and I've never had 4 Thais in my company ?

I always thought that was a visa requirement.  In other words, you could not get a one year visa unless you had four employees, which meant that you have to get a multiple entry visa.  

Edited July 31, 2018 by Horace

[PoorSucker]

2 minutes ago, Horace said:

I always thought that was a visa requirement.  In other words, you could not get a one year visa unless you had four employees, which meant that you have to get a multiple entry visa.  

Not visa requirement but for extension of stay based on employment.

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, Horace said:

I always thought that was a visa requirement.  In other words, you could not get a one year visa unless you had four employees, which meant that you have to get a multiple entry visa.  

No, it is primarily a labour department requirement for the work permit application, as has been stated by others, this changes if married, it also changes on registered capital or if a BOI, IEAT registered company etc.

A PR still requires a work permit, but the ratio of Thais required is reduced to two or even one, depending on the circumstances, expat heavy companies are known to sponsor PR for employees who are eligible.

Immigration may also enforce the ratio for an extension of stay based on work.

[Horace]

49 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Yes, it pays to remember that these changes were not made to make it easier for Western foreigners.   

Correct.  Thailand is falling behind and these chances were necessary, but there are plenty opposed to the work permit reforms. For example officials involved in rent taking activity in connection with work permits.  And for that reason, we need to see how this is implemented in practice.  What might be good for the country may not be good for individuals that profit from cumbersome and difficult work permit laws.  For example, while the country may benefit, the income stream of some officials and some lawyers that profit from arcane and difficult work laws may suffer. 

 

These changes have been in effect for some time.  But I have only seen information about them on the websites of three law firms (other than the linked article here) and very little press.  Those law firms mainly service major corporations and handle work permits as an ancillary  service to their corporate clients.  Because they are not relying on the work permit practice to support the firm but rather to keep their corporate clients happy, they have a strong incentive to offer clear and accurate advice.  They don't have any incentive to offer work permit or visa work at cut throat prices.

 

 

 

[Horace]

11 minutes ago, PoorSucker said:

Not visa requirement but for extension of stay based on employment.

OK, this make sense.  Thanks.

[Mattd]

I

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

I know people here who have more than one business, but because until now you could only work for one company they've been unable to legally do work in their other businesses.  Now apparently they will be able to do work in all their different businesses.  

There is nothing that stops a foreigner from being employed and working for more than one company in the Working of Aliens Act 2008.

[Small Joke]

On 7/30/2018 at 11:52 AM, oilinki said:

That's actually one of the places I might move to. Along with other EU countries, Portugal and Croatia. 

I came from a Portugal expat situation 4 years ago.  Nice country,  but not my cup of tea. Many parts of it are severely depressed.  I was back last year.  Not much had changed. 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Horace said:

1 hour ago, PoorSucker said:

Not visa requirement but for extension of stay based on employment.

OK, this make sense.  Thanks.

It is neither a visa or extension of stay requirement. A company needs four Thai employees for work permit issued to a foreigner.

[PoorSucker]

17 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It is neither a visa or extension of stay requirement. A company needs four Thai employees for work permit issued to a foreigner.

It's a requirement for extension of stay here on Samui.

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, Mattd said:

3 hours ago, seancbk said:

I know people here who have more than one business, but because until now you could only work for one company they've been unable to legally do work in their other businesses.  Now apparently they will be able to do work in all their different businesses.  

There is nothing that stops a foreigner from being employed and working for more than one company in the Working of Aliens Act 2008.

 

I've never met anyone that has multiple work permits allowing them to 'work' for multiple companies.

That said the people I know who have multiple companies operate them from the same desk, in the same office, so to the casual observer they look like they are working for one company.

[seancbk]

23 minutes ago, elviajero said:

It is neither a visa or extension of stay requirement. A company needs four Thai employees for work permit issued to a foreigner.

 

And yet you can get a work permit if your business doesn't have 4 employees.