If Thais dislike tourists so much, why don't they try harder to cut their dependence on tourism?

[cmsally]

Quote

And the reason I asked what I did is why Thailand doesn't do things like that like invest in infrastructure outside of Bangkok and improve its education system.

Herein lies yours answer. (above)

You obviously know little about the history,politics and economics of Thailand.

 

Getting back to tourism specifically, a lot of the workers these days are just low salaried employees. Many of the owner operated businesses have disappeared.

If you come across one of the owner operated/family businesses that are still "hands on", you will see the difference.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, BestB said:

Will not bother responding after reading “ 29 years of visiting”?

 

so after 29 years of visiting you became a expert on Thailand.

 

and for the second time yes there is welfare system, and no no one put a gun to their head to grow rice. Could freely go to work in factory , but once again you have been visiting so you know better???

 

So how many decades have you been living in Thailand?

 

Can you please explain the welfare system in Thailand. Is it anything like this?

 

http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-thailand-social-security

 

Or this which will be cut off if the recipient earns more than 30,00 baht per year or 2,500 baht per month.

 

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/thailand-proposes-2750-baht-monthly-welfare-low-income-citizens-netizens-disagree/

Edited August 1, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 11:18 AM, koimiloi said:

I get that. Many of us coming here don't behave ourselves too well. But tourists have been coming to Thailand in big numbers for a long, long time. If the Thais don't like it, why can't they develop other industries?

Their country is  NOT heavily dependent on tourism. and they have developed a lot of other industries.

"they would glare and say things that I'm sure were not pleasantries."

How would you know if you don't know what they are saying?

 

"they seemed to be having a good time just hanging out and joking around. You'd almost think that these Thais love when there are few tourists."

Where did you get this idea they were having fun because there are few tourists?  

 

For somebody who has been here a lot you talk a lot of nonsense.

[varun]

Because tourists and foreigners are a source of income AKA money.

 

However, I think it's inaccurate to make a blanket statement that Thai's don't like tourists.

 

It was not always this way -

each race/color and ethnicity whether ABC, BBC, CBC, khaek or farang has brought their fair share of uncivilized a-holes,

who have screwed it up for the rest.

 

It's a knee-jerk reaction in typical Thai fashion - the Thailand that was once overly welcoming to foreigners for decades,

has now become grossly under-welcoming.

[gaff]

On 7/31/2018 at 7:28 PM, koimiloi said:

But according to one or two posters here, apparently I'm the only visitor who Thais have problems with and vice versa.

 

Sorry I was wrong, maybe the rest of the world would accept the women from Thailand, but how sure I am that nobody would even want to talk to the smart men...

 

 

[Jdiddy]

They dont hate them as much as i do

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DavisH]

On 7/31/2018 at 12:15 PM, BestB said:

Actually there is welfare and rice growing is 1 month work .

 

then of course no one put a gun to their head to grow rice.

 

as for Thai you know comment , rather a silly one to make assuming a few you know is how all Thai are.

...the OP's post is based on a generalisation too...that all Thais hate tourists. I would say 95% of Thais have no contact with toursits and 90% have minimal contact with any foreigners. It's difficult to see how Thais would have such an attitude when they have no personal contact with them (unless they are influenced by the media, of course).

[koimiloi]

33 minutes ago, DavisH said:

...the OP's post is based on a generalisation too...that all Thais hate tourists. I would say 95% of Thais have no contact with toursits and 90% have minimal contact with any foreigners. It's difficult to see how Thais would have such an attitude when they have no personal contact with them (unless they are influenced by the media, of course).

People are getting too caught up by the word "hate". Maybe that is too strong but I was using some negative personal experiences I had recently that seemed to be in line with a lot of things I've read on this forum and other Thai-related forums. I was also referring to those who have contact with foreigners.

[richard_smith237]

Firstly, the topic is based upon the Op's assumption that Thai's hate tourists - this is simply not true. 

 

The vast majority of Thai's are equally as indifferent to tourists and foreigners as they are to each other.

Fall outside of a Thai's 'circle' and generally they don't care one way or another.

 

That said, in some tourist areas in Thailand it can be recognized that there is a level of disregard towards tourists. This, I suspect is down to a 'double stigma' effect whereby Thai's have been exposed to a minority of poorly behaved tourists and 'tar all with the same brush'... unfortunately this manifests itself as a poor attitude to towards tourists who in turn behave less politely in return and hence the 'double stigma'.... 

 

Within Bangkok itself there are areas where the treatment of foreigners varies and is seemingly dependent on how 'touristy' that area is.

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, koimiloi said:

People are getting too caught up by the word "hate". Maybe that is too strong but I was using some negative personal experiences I had recently that seemed to be in line with a lot of things I've read on this forum and other Thai-related forums. I was also referring to those who have contact with foreigners.

 

I live in a Thai moobaan in rural Khampaeng Phet. The people in the village know me well enough, There are many Thais in the big village that know me, 7/11 where I can joke with the girls, many of the shops where some people can speak a little English and understand my mangled Thai. Even up in the "big city" of Khampaeng Phet there are a few people that know me.

 

I can honestly say that in the 14 years I have been living here I have never felt hate or hostility from the Thai people

[BestB]

3 hours ago, DavisH said:

...the OP's post is based on a generalisation too...that all Thais hate tourists. I would say 95% of Thais have no contact with toursits and 90% have minimal contact with any foreigners. It's difficult to see how Thais would have such an attitude when they have no personal contact with them (unless they are influenced by the media, of course).

I think you would find a lot more than 5-10% of thai have contact with tourists or foreigners. Just a basic math having to service 30 million visitors would require little more than 300000-600000 people. 

Pattaya alone has 250000 residents who i am sure have been in contact one way or another with tourists or foreigners .

 

Then also keep in mind , it’s not only actual contact but also friends and family members who hear or been told of some experiences.

 

Now, I am not agreeing or justifying OP comments on Thai hating tourists or foreigners , just clarifying the numbers.

 

personally I do not think

thai hate foreigners , Thai do not respect foreigners , yes. Thai scared to speak with foreigners , yes. Just plain lazy to do their job, yes.

 

In many cases, way foreigners behave , they deserve to be hated .

[gaff]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Firstly, the topic is based upon the Op's assumption that Thai's hate tourists - this is simply not true. 

 

The vast majority of Thai's are equally as indifferent to tourists and foreigners as they are to each other.

Fall outside of a Thai's 'circle' and generally they don't care one way or another.

 

That said, in some tourist areas in Thailand it can be recognized that there is a level of disregard towards tourists. This, I suspect is down to a 'double stigma' effect whereby Thai's have been exposed to a minority of poorly behaved tourists and 'tar all with the same brush'... unfortunately this manifests itself as a poor attitude to towards tourists who in turn behave less politely in return and hence the 'double stigma'.... 

 

Within Bangkok itself there are areas where the treatment of foreigners varies and is seemingly dependent on how 'touristy' that area is.

 

 

Yes treatment varies when they see me coming in a German car, then then they are sure that I am not a tourist or at least not the cheap kind ?

 

 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

I think you would find a lot more than 5-10% of thai have contact with tourists or foreigners. Just a basic math having to service 30 million visitors would require little more than 300000-600000 people. 
Pattaya alone has 250000 residents who i am sure have been in contact one way or another with tourists or foreigners .
 
Then also keep in mind , it’s not only actual contact but also friends and family members who hear or been told of some experiences.
 
Now, I am not agreeing or justifying OP comments on Thai hating tourists or foreigners , just clarifying the numbers.
 
personally I do not think
thai hate foreigners , Thai do not respect foreigners , yes. Thai scared to speak with foreigners , yes. Just plain lazy to do their job, yes.
 
In many cases, way foreigners behave , they deserve to be hated .

Thirty million a year is how many in country at any given time?

Thais that live outside of tourist areas would have little or no contact with tourists.

[BestB]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

Thirty million a year is how many in country at any given time?

Thais that live outside of tourist areas would have little or no contact with tourists.

 

Thai that live outside tourist areas as I said in my post may not have first hand contact but have friends or family members who do have contact and do pass on stories or complains 

[Mickster58]

11 hours ago, koimiloi said:

People are getting too caught up by the word "hate". Maybe that is too strong but I was using some negative personal experiences I had recently that seemed to be in line with a lot of things I've read on this forum and other Thai-related forums. I was also referring to those who have contact with foreigners.

haha go home

[DoctorG]

Sure, maybe the OP was badly worded and he could have used "dislike" instead of "hate". He could also have ensured his comments were confined to Thais working in tourist areas, but do we really need to jump all over him like some posters have?

Just remember, without these new threads many people on here would have nothing to do. ?

[mogandave]

Thai that live outside tourist areas as I said in my post may not have first hand contact but have friends or family members who do have contact and do pass on stories or complains 

Why would you assume that?

[BestB]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

Why would you assume that?

 

Why would you ask something as obvious as that ?

[watcharacters]

On 7/30/2018 at 11:19 PM, OJAS said:

Do you now feel better after making this long-winded Thai-bashing rant?

 

It appears to me that the OP offered his impressions and asked a general question.

 

Are you opposed to a person doing that?

[mogandave]

Why would you ask something as obvious as that ?

 

Because it’s not that obvious to me.

[BestB]

5 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Because it’s not that obvious to me.

Then perhaps getting out of your room or village  would be a good start 

[mogandave]

 
It appears to me that the OP offered his impressions and asked a general question.
 
Are you opposed to a person doing that?

The OP seemed to post up their opinions as facts.

The OP’s question also assumes their opinions are facts.

While there is nothing wrong with posting an opinion, there is something wrong with presenting opinions as facts.

[cmsally]

One thing that is very noticeable and contributes towards it is the stratification and insularity of Thai society. Tourists come outside that "classification system" and sometimes it can have a marked effect on the behaviour of staff in the service industry.

[poohy]

I think indifference is  a much better word.

 

I worked in BKK for 12 years then moved to rural Thailand south of Prachuap with Bangkok born and raised Thai wife.

Most of our both close friends and her family are BKK based

 

Local Thais are simply indifferent to both of us probably for different reasons ..

 

• Cant or scared to talk English or Thai to me
• Wifes from BKK so also an outsider in both culture eg farming /fishing and from what i see to certain extent language.

 

No real problems you just accept get used to it.

[koimiloi]

On 8/1/2018 at 9:10 AM, cmsally said:

Herein lies yours answer. (above)

You obviously know little about the history,politics and economics of Thailand.

 

Getting back to tourism specifically, a lot of the workers these days are just low salaried employees. Many of the owner operated businesses have disappeared.

If you come across one of the owner operated/family businesses that are still "hands on", you will see the difference.

I'm only a visitor so I only know Thailand has an economy heavily dependent on tourism (almost 20 percent), has had a military junta in power for several years preceded by several years of instability, mass protests, and changes of government, and that Thailand has never been colonized though they conveniently ignore that they collaborated with the Japanese during World War II during what might be said to have been an occupation. Plus they have a long history of fighting with their neighbors like the Burmese, Cambodians and Vietnamese.

I mean I'm sure the majority of tourists to Thailand already know so much more about the country, so excuse me for my miniscule knowledge.

 

On 8/1/2018 at 12:47 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Their country is  NOT heavily dependent on tourism. and they have developed a lot of other industries.

"they would glare and say things that I'm sure were not pleasantries."

How would you know if you don't know what they are saying?

 

"they seemed to be having a good time just hanging out and joking around. You'd almost think that these Thais love when there are few tourists."

Where did you get this idea they were having fun because there are few tourists?  

 

For somebody who has been here a lot you talk a lot of nonsense.

Are you OK, buddy?
According to statistics, Thailand's GDP relies heavily on tourism with figures of as much as 20 % quoted. Obviously they have other industries, but tourism is a huge part.

You know, in life, especially when traveling, you learn to pick up cues from how people react to you. From how they look at you to the tone of their voice to gestures, you kind of figure out whether you're welcome in a place or provoking somebody. If you pass somebody and he glares at you, that is a very obvious sign of hostility, unless you want to tell me that is a local Thai sign of hospitality or curiosity. If you pass a few guys and they stop talking to look at you, then start raising their voices, it's also very likely that they aren't saying something good.
 

[Berkshire]

36 minutes ago, koimiloi said:

If you pass somebody and he glares at you, that is a very obvious sign of hostility, unless you want to tell me that is a local Thai sign of hospitality or curiosity. If you pass a few guys and they stop talking to look at you, then start raising their voices, it's also very likely that they aren't saying something good.

 

Does this happen to you frequently?  I'm sorry to say but this is not normal in Thailand.  It hasn't happened to me.  Maybe you have the sort of face and/or personality that just irritates people.

[koimiloi]

18 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Firstly, the topic is based upon the Op's assumption that Thai's hate tourists - this is simply not true. 

 

The vast majority of Thai's are equally as indifferent to tourists and foreigners as they are to each other.

Fall outside of a Thai's 'circle' and generally they don't care one way or another.

 

That said, in some tourist areas in Thailand it can be recognized that there is a level of disregard towards tourists. This, I suspect is down to a 'double stigma' effect whereby Thai's have been exposed to a minority of poorly behaved tourists and 'tar all with the same brush'... unfortunately this manifests itself as a poor attitude to towards tourists who in turn behave less politely in return and hence the 'double stigma'.... 

 

Within Bangkok itself there are areas where the treatment of foreigners varies and is seemingly dependent on how 'touristy' that area is.

 

If only more answers to my question were as reasonable as this. The "double stigma" might be true. Though the incidents I mentioned happened during the low season last month which surprised me since I thought surely locals would be happy to see visitors, not annoyed.
 

[Poottrong]

4 hours ago, poohy said:

I think indifference is  a much better word.

 

I worked in BKK for 12 years then moved to rural Thailand south of Prachuap with Bangkok born and raised Thai wife.

Most of our both close friends and her family are BKK based

 

Local Thais are simply indifferent to both of us probably for different reasons ..

 

• Cant or scared to talk English or Thai to me
• Wifes from BKK so also an outsider in both culture eg farming /fishing and from what i see to certain extent language.

 

No real problems you just accept get used to it.

Yes indifferent is the right word. Indifferent and uninterested in outsiders and the outside world. When you think about it, why should they be obligated to be otherwise? It's wrong to mistake this for hostility. Like you say you just learn to accept it and get used to it. Don't become a farang frustrated and resentful suffering from Relevancy Deprivation Syndrome ?

 

 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

4 hours ago, BestB said:

Then perhaps getting out of your room or village  would be a good start 

If you don't know just say you don't know, don't blame me.

[JTXR]

The premises of the OP are flawed.  He implies most Thais dislike tourists based on a few personal experiences.  He also implies that Thailand is doing nothing to reduce its dependency on tourism.  Both are not true, or are at least debatable.

 

Like most people living in a city or country with large numbers of tourists, Thais dislike certain types of tourists (loud, rude, culturally insensitive, etc.) and they dislike huge numbers of foreigners changing the character of their city or country.  On the other hand, they realize that the money tourism brings is a good thing.  It's a trade-off, and Thailand is hardly alone in this predicament.  Talk to folks in Kyoto, or Paris, or Rome, or Mexico, or Hawaii, or New Orleans.  Talk to folks in Venice, for goodness' sake!

In 2017 tourism generated revenues worth around US$ 36.4 billion, representing over 9.3% of the country's GDP (source: Travel and Tourism Competitiveness Report 2017, World Economic Forum).  That's a good chunk of the economy, sure, but the country's 20 year development strategy already calls for increased diversification of the economy.  (You can Google the strategy).  But the way to diversify is to grow the other parts of the economy, not suppress tourism.  Will they succeed?  Who knows, but they do know they need to try.
 

Edited August 3, 2018 by JTXR