"Gardening loving Brit" electrocuted while mowing the lawn in Khon Kaen

[ttrd]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

 

I am 74 and my wife is 21 years younger than me. We have been married for 18 years and knew each other for 7 years before that. Our son was 14 last week.

Yes, that may function since both of you are adults with a load of life experience each  - but if Your wife was 21 and Your child was 14 months old it may have been a quite another story and this is often the case when the relationships starts in a girly bar which unfortunantely often is the basis for many of the so called rip off stories that we have heard about where you can wonder who actually ripped off who....

[Rally123]

5 hours ago, Crossy said:

Both are acceptable (or would be if they were wired correctly), although one would not expect to find both in one apartment block.

 

Correctly in Thailand? For some unexplained reason Thais like to connect the negative/neutral wire to the earth. In Thailand the negative/neutral wire, from the supply pole, carries 3-4 volts. So if you have a shower fitted that is earthed then you will get a shock everytime you take a shower. Lesson to be learned if you check your supply connection.

[tracy3eyes]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I am 74 and my wife is 21 years younger than me. We have been married for 18 years and knew each other for 7 years before that. Our son was 14 last week.

Good for you mate. Seems like there are many exceptions. I'm only a baby 57!

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, Rally123 said:

For some unexplained reason Thais like to connect the negative/neutral wire to the earth.

Nothing unexplained about it at all. The use of MEN (Multiple Earthed Neutral) is common around the world although you may not be able to see the N-E link. For example, in the UK (where it's called PME - Protective Multiple Earthing) it's hidden in the service head.

 

Places requiring this link that I know for certain are Australia / NZ, the US and (increasingly) the UK.

 

You must be very sensitive if you are receiving a shock from 3-4V. When was the last time you got a tickle from a 9V battery, your car battery (12V), the phone line (48V)?

 

[Daffy D]

A few months back the Safe-T-Cut saved me from a similar fate.

My main consumer unit has Safe-T-Cut which covers every thing in the house. In addition to that I have a RCBO (or ELCB in old money) that gives extra protection to an outside power line for use in the shed and anything outside.

So on this day I was working on fixing a fan motor and testing various points with one of those neon screwdrivers to see if it had power going to it. Because the neon test light did not show up well in the daylight I was standing barefoot on concrete to give a better result, I know I know, but I had done this many times.

Anyway on this occasion something distracted me for a micro second and I touched something live with my finger.  

I could feel the shock run up my arm across my chest and start down the other arm just before the Safe-T-Cut tripped off.

Lucky escape thanks to the Safe-T-Cut but I still wonder why the RCBO which was nearer to me did not trip first. The RCBO is 15mA and the Safe-T-Cut is set to 20mA so I would have thought that the RCBO would have tripped first. And yes it does trip with the test button.

 

So another T-Shirt for my collection.  

 

[Rally123]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

You must be very sensitive if you are receiving a shock from 3-4V.

Not really. But the shock was only when showering. I must have tried half a dozen, so-called, electricians who couldn't figure out why they too got shocked of the shower. Eventually I went to the electrical company. They sent out 3 guys. They tried fitting an extra earth wire. But no change. Then the head guy noticed the negative supply was connected to the earth in the consumer unit. He disconnected that and it sorted the problem. He then explained about the negative carrying 3-4 volts and that was what was causing the shock.

 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, Daffy D said:

Lucky escape thanks to the Safe-T-Cut but I still wonder why the RCBO which was nearer to me did not trip first. The RCBO is 15mA and the Safe-T-Cut is set to 20mA so I would have thought that the RCBO would have tripped first. And yes it does trip with the test button.

It doesn't work like that with cascaded RCDs.

 

The requirements (UK spec.) :-

 

A 20mA RCD MUST trip at 20mA, it must NOT trip at 10mA

Similarly.

A 15mA RCD MUST trip at 15mA, it must NOT trip at 7.5mA

There's a pretty big overlap in the trip currents.

 

So if your shock was, say, 12mA the 15mA may not trip but the 20mA could.

 

[Crossy]

53 minutes ago, Rally123 said:

Not really. But the shock was only when showering. I must have tried half a dozen, so-called, electricians who couldn't figure out why they too got shocked of the shower. Eventually I went to the electrical company. They sent out 3 guys. They tried fitting an extra earth wire. But no change. Then the head guy noticed the negative supply was connected to the earth in the consumer unit. He disconnected that and it sorted the problem. He then explained about the negative carrying 3-4 volts and that was what was causing the shock.

I really hope you have an RCD/RCBO as removing the N-E link has converted your supply to TT, an RCD is an absolute requirement for safety with a TT supply.

 

I suspect that the neutral voltage was rather more than 3-4V (did they measure it).

 

[billd766]

14 hours ago, tracy3eyes said:

Good for you mate. Seems like there are many exceptions. I'm only a baby 57!

 

I remember being 57 once.

 

It only seems like 17 years ago,

 

 

[Rally123]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

I really hope you have an RCD/RCBO as removing the N-E link has converted your supply to TT, an RCD is an absolute requirement for safety with a TT supply.

 

I suspect that the neutral voltage was rather more than 3-4V (did they measure it).

 

Yes we have an RCBO. I didn't actually measure the neutral voltage. The guy from the electricity board said it was that. Based, I assume, on the neutral in Thailand normally carrying that voltage? Also before the guy from the board removed the neutral from the earth our breaker periodically kept tripping. That no longer happens.

[Pat in Pattaya]

On 8/2/2018 at 5:01 PM, alzack said:

you never use a cable machine on wet grass, 67 yrs old and he didn't know that?

he was 76

[balo]

I live in a modern condo, so no ground problems here. 

 

But if I ever had to move to a house in Thailand , I would visit this thread first , lots of good advice here.  I would not ask a Thai , that's for sure. 

 

 

 

[Daffy D]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

It doesn't work like that with cascaded RCDs.

 

The requirements (UK spec.) :-

 

A 20mA RCD MUST trip at 20mA, it must NOT trip at 10mA

Similarly.

A 15mA RCD MUST trip at 15mA, it must NOT trip at 7.5mA

There's a pretty big overlap in the trip currents.

 

So if your shock was, say, 12mA the 15mA may not trip but the 20mA could.

 

Seems I had the wrong kind of shock to trip the first RCD.

 

Proves once again Thai electricity and Farang  shock resilience not same same. 

 

What about the ELCB on the hot water shower unit, theoretically speaking, would  I really need that if I have a Safe-T-Cut on the main consumer unit?

 

[BradWilkins]

On 8/2/2018 at 3:35 PM, webfact said:

There were no signs of a struggle.

It ain't easy to struggle with a lawn mower.