In England's forgotten 'rust belt', voters show little sign of Brexit regret

[snoop1130]

In England's forgotten 'rust belt', voters show little sign of Brexit regret

Guy Faulconbridge

 

The boarded up former Conservative Club is seen in Goole, Britain August 2, 2018. REUTERS/Phil Noble

 

KNOTTINGLEY, England (Reuters) - To Paul Green, a club steward in northern England’s ‘rust belt’, Britain is so broken that he would vote for Brexit again were he to get another chance.

 

Green, who runs a Miners’ Welfare Club in an area where there are no longer any working miners, says both of Britain’s main political parties have shown no interest in the Yorkshire town of Knottingley for generations.

 

“It’s desperate really - I feel that Knottingley is a forgotten community, and all the surrounding areas are forgotten communities as well, through lack of investment and red tape,” he said, standing in a youth boxing gym at the club.

 

The 55-year-old former railwayman is not alone. Such anger drove many Britons to vote to leave the European Union in 2016, though tumult in the Brexit process has prompted some supporters of EU membership to call for a rerun of the referendum.

 

With Britain due to leave on March 29, 2019, the country, its politicians and its business leaders remain deeply divided over Brexit. Recent opinion polls show voters think Prime Minister Theresa May is handling the process badly and there may be a slight move towards support for staying in the EU.

 

May, who has ruled out another referendum, is trying to clinch a Brexit divorce deal with Brussels that pleases both sides of her divided Conservative Party as well as the Northern Irish kingmakers who prop up her minority government.

 

“SHAMBOLIC JOKE”

 

Local people complain there are few jobs in Knottingley. Like many areas in northern England, it has been left behind by a global economy that has brought cheaper coal imports from the likes of Colombia and Russia, and a push towards generating power from cleaner gas and wind turbines.

 

Unemployment in Yorkshire and neighbouring Humberside is 4.5 percent, only slightly more than the national rate. But while the county includes the vibrant city of Leeds and the prosperous spa town of Harrogate, life is tougher in the old mining areas.

 

Green’s club originally catered for workers at Kellingley Colliery just outside the town, which was Britain’s last deep coal mine. It closed in 2015, leaving only open cast operations as a remnant of the country’s once dominant coal industry.

 

Kellingley stands chained shut behind rusting metal fences. Giant slag heaps and chimneys remain, with signs proclaiming regeneration initiatives.

 

Green casts the wider United Kingdom as crumbling: a London-focused media, bureaucrats who ignore the wishes of the people, and police and health services stretched to breaking point.

 

Politicians live in a bubble, he said. “We are just totally let down aren’t we and they are not listening.”

 

Green, who voted “leave” in 2016 because he wanted money paid to Europe reinvested in his community, is dismayed by the chaos in both the Conservative and Labour parties and by May’s Brexit negotiation.

 

“It is just a shambolic joke now - every time you put telly on there is inhouse fighting,” Green said. “I would still vote to go out.”

 

What would he tell May about Brexit? “Just get on with it. We are a nation of fighters - we are not going to crumble. Let’s crack on, get out and get some investment back into this country,” he said.

 

REGREXIT?

 

Goole port, 30 km (20 miles) to the east, once shipped British coal out. Now it imports bricks, vegetable oil and timber from Europe and beyond.

 

However, Siemens plans to build a train factory in Goole, investing up to 200 million pounds ($260 million) and employing up to 700 people. The German engineering group is just one of a number of companies to warn of the dangers of leaving the EU without a deal with Brussels. [nL8N1TM433]

 

Others say Brexit could hurt communities like Knottingley or Goole much more than London or Leeds, which voted to remain in the EU.

 

“If we crash out without a deal the people who have least are going to be hurt most,” former Conservative prime minister John Major said, adding he did not rule out another referendum.

 

Major cited unpublished government research that showed the northeast - another region hit hard by mine closures - might lose 16 percent of its gross domestic product if Britain left the EU without a deal.

 

There is little sign of Brexit regret in Goole.

 

In an unscientific poll of 35 voters there, 11 told Reuters they had no view on Brexit, 15 wanted it as soon as possible, five said they voted to remain and four would consider switching to remain from leave if there were another vote.

 

“We should leave: we voted to leave, it is a democracy. The sooner we get out the better,” said John Corfield, 63, who served in the British army’s parachute regiment. “I have not changed my mind at all.”

 

When asked if he thought the north would be hit hard economically by Brexit: “We are hit hard anyway, so what is the difference?”

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-8-7

[lovelomsak]

21 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

“We should leave: we voted to leave, it is a democracy. The sooner we get out the better,” said John Corfield, 63, who served in the British army’s parachute regiment. “I have not changed my mind at all.”

 

When asked if he thought the north would be hit hard economically by Brexit: “We are hit hard anyway, so what is the difference?”

I think speaks volumes. People are suffering already So they will just get on with it on their own and work for a better future

 

23 minutes ago, snoop1130 said:

What would he tell May about Brexit? “Just get on with it. We are a nation of fighters - we are not going to crumble. Let’s crack on, get out and get some investment back into this country,” he said.

That is the spirit that made  England great. Good to see there are still men out there that will rebuild .

[vogie]

Havn't we got enough brexit threads already, why are they singling out Knottingley, whats wrong with Pontifract. I'm a proud Yorkshireman but surely this is a step too far. ?

Edited August 7, 2018 by vogie

[Andrew108]

The only way to save these areas is to turn them back to agricultural production. If it had happened esrlier they would have gotten more subsidies from the E.U and perhaps would feel different. 

[Andrew108]

The only way to save these areas is to turn them back to agricultural production. If it had happened esrlier they would have gotten more subsidies from the E.U and perhaps would feel different. 

[Bluespunk]

10 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

 “It is just a shambolic joke now  

Everything about brexit and the brexiteers is shambolic. 

[soalbundy]

11 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

I think speaks volumes. People are suffering already So they will just get on with it on their own and work for a better future

 

That is the spirit that made  England great. Good to see there are still men out there that will rebuild .

Sounds more like a masochist with his eyes shut waiting for the lash.

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, Bluespunk said:

Everything about brexit and the brexiteers is shambolic. 

You are completely missing the point. This community and many others like it had the rough end of the stick before the referendum. They are not unaware that they will probably continue to get the rough end of the stick (just read the article).

 

They exercised their right to vote.

 

And then they get abused by pseudo liberals like you for doing so.

 

Jeeez, attitudes like yours are part of the problem, but your sense of moral superiority will forever blind you to that simple fact.

[Bluespunk]

19 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

You are completely missing the point. This community and many others like it had the rough end of the stick before the referendum. They are not unaware that they will probably continue to get the rough end of the stick (just read the article).

 

They exercised their right to vote.

 

And then they get abused by pseudo liberals like you for doing so.

 

Jeeez, attitudes like yours are part of the problem, but your sense of moral superiority will forever blind you to that simple fact.

Oh dear, my knowing that brexit and the brexiteers are shambolic does seem to upset you. 

 

I was in the mining communities when the tories set out to destroy them in the 80s.

 

It had nothing to do with Europe and everything to do with the free market, 19th century laissez-faire liberalism ideology of thatcher and joseph. 

 

Where were you when this happened?

 

Who were you cheering on?

 

I was not attacking these people, I was pointing out the truth that brexit has been a debacle from the start. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Bluespunk

[RuamRudy]

12 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

I think speaks volumes. People are suffering already So they will just get on with it on their own and work for a better future

 

That is the spirit that made  England great. Good to see there are still men out there that will rebuild .

Of course, it is not only England that will suffer the consequences of England's wishes. 

[VocalNeal]

Seems like the modern meaning of democracy is to have a vote but don't accept it unless it goes your way.

 

Rightly or wrongly the majority , albeit small, voted to leave. So accept democracy and get on with it. 

 

But no. They need another vote and so on until it is the "correct" result.

[My Thai Life]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I was in the mining communities when the tories set out to destroy them in the 80s.

Many of my friends were in the mining communities at that time too. They were middle class pseudo liberals from London on a rent-a-picket jolly.

 

Tell me, are you from the mining community yourself, or just one of the flying picket daytrippers? 

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Seems like the modern meaning of democracy is to have a vote but don't accept it unless it goes your way.

 

Rightly or wrongly the majority , albeit small, voted to leave. So accept democracy and get on with it. 

 

But no. They need another vote and so on until it is the "correct" result.

Looks like Nigel doesn't agree with you.

 

[Becker]

12 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

I think speaks volumes. People are suffering already So they will just get on with it on their own and work for a better future

 

That is the spirit that made  England great. Good to see there are still men out there that will rebuild .

Why didn't they work for a better future and rebuild from withing the EU? What stopped them from doing that?

 

"What would he tell May about Brexit? “Just get on with it. We are a nation of fighters - we are not going to crumble. Let’s crack on, get out and get some investment back into this country,” he said."

 

How the he!! can anyone actually believe that investment in the UK will pick up after a Brexit? Where will the money come from? Maybe you can enlighten us on that.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Becker

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Many of my friends were in the mining communities at that time too. They were middle class pseudo liberals from London on a rent-a-picket jolly.

 

Tell me, are you from the mining community yourself, or just one of the flying picket daytrippers? 

I was living in a mining area. 

 

My family weren’t miners but friends families were. 

 

However, my point has nothing to do with who lived where and everything to do with why the mining communities were devastated. 

 

It had nothing to do with eu membership. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Bluespunk

[My Thai Life]

Well o

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

My family weren’t miners but friends families were. 

Well obviously the majority of those mining families voted in a different way from you in the referendum, and you seem to have learned little from your time with them. 

 

[Becker]

2 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Well o

Well obviously the majority of those mining families voted in a different way from you in the referendum, and you seem to have learned little from your time with them. 

 

I think you'll find that it's the mining families that have learned little if they believe their "plight" will be relieved after a Brexit. The opposite will happen.

[My Thai Life]

2 minutes ago, Becker said:

I think you'll find that it's the mining families that have learned little if they believe their "plight" will be relieved after a Brexit. The opposite will happen.

And if you had actually bothered to read the Reuters OP article you would know that they don't believe it will necessarily get better.

 

Buy why would superior pseudo liberals try to understand their views anyway, they haven't bothered in the last 30-40 years. Just carry on talking down to them.

[vogie]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I was living in a mining area. 

 

My family weren’t miners but friends families were. 

 

However, my point has nothing to do with who lived where and everything to do with why the mining communities were devastated. 

 

It had nothing to do with eu membership. 

It had all to do with two giant egos, Arthur Scargills and Margaret Thatchers, Thatcher saw the miners bring down Ted Heaths government in 1974 and she was as sure as eggs are eggs not going to let it happen to her government.

Whatever our politics are if we are honest we know that the unions were all too powerful and MT brought them back down to earth a little, you cannot have unions bringing down governments.

But there was a lot of suffering inflicted on the miners thanks to Scargill, the pits were going to close anyway.

But on the plus side I know a lot of ex miners who have gone and relocated to other jobs (probably a lot more healthier) and some have started their own successful businesses.

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Well o

Well obviously the majority of those mining families voted in a different way from you in the referendum, and you seem to have learned little from your time with them. 

 

None the less, brexit and the brexiteer leadership have been shambolic from the start. 

 

Their lies and deceits got them the vote they wanted, true. 

 

However, those lies and deceits are being exposed more and more with every shambolic step taken in the exit process.

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

It had all to do with two giant egos, Arthur Scargills and Margaret Thatchers, Thatcher saw the miners bring down Ted Heaths government in 1974 and she was as sure as eggs are eggs not going to let it happen to her government.

Whatever our politics are if we are honest we know that the unions were all too powerful and MT brought them back down to earth a little, you cannot have unions bringing down governments.

But there was a lot of suffering inflicted on the miners thanks to Scargill, the pits were going to close anyway.

But on the plus side I know a lot of ex miners who have gone and relocated to other jobs (probably a lot more healthier) and some have started their own successful businesses.

While I respect your right to a view on the miners strike, I think we will forever disagree on how right thatcher’s actions were. 

[My Thai Life]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Their lies and deceits got them the vote they wanted, true. 

Jeez, you really have no respect for the disenfranchised working class at all do you.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, My Thai Life said:

Jeez, you really have no respect for the disenfranchised working class at all do you.

 

 

Think what you like of me, however wrong you may be, doesn’t change the fact brexit has been and is a shambolic mess. 

[My Thai Life]

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

While I respect your right to a view on the miners strike, I think we will forever disagree on how right thatcher’s actions were. 

You are entering a fantasy world now. 

 

I have made absolutely no comment on Thatcher's actions or the miner's strike at all. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by My Thai Life

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

You are entering a fantasy world now. 

 

I have made absolutely no comment on Thatcher's actions at all.

You might want to check on the name of the poster and post that response was given to...if you wish to delete it, I will do like wise this post. 

Edited August 8, 2018 by Bluespunk

[sammieuk1]

The shambolic joke was sold to the north with a 350mil bus and the immigrants being expelled the next day and are now confused as to why all the Pakistani and Indians have not been deported yet as we are the 52% with our one laws and borders just controlled by the ever so trustworthy  DWP and Tory's god save the pound??

[worgeordie]

Well,it looks like the EU are not going to give any concessions at all,

everything put forward is shot down,because they know they must

be very tough with the U.K. and make us suffer,they don't want the U.K.

to succeed,as that might give others in the club thoughts to leave too,

 

So I say just give the finger to Barnier,Tusk, and the rest of them,and

get the hell out of there,pay them nowt,then turn the UK,into a low tax,

free trade zone on the edge of Europe.

regards Worgeordie

[Becker]

27 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

And if you had actually bothered to read the Reuters OP article you would know that they don't believe it will necessarily get better.

 

Buy why would superior pseudo liberals try to understand their views anyway, they haven't bothered in the last 30-40 years. Just carry on talking down to them.

And you just carry on with the name calling because that's all you've got. Brexit will economically be an absolute disaster and many of those who voted for it will be amongst those hardest hit. 

[My Thai Life]

4 minutes ago, Becker said:

And you just carry on with the name calling because that's all you've got.

Eh? Just go and read the article, then you might understand what this debate has been about.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

You are completely missing the point. This community and many others like it had the rough end of the stick before the referendum. They are not unaware that they will probably continue to get the rough end of the stick (just read the article).

 

They exercised their right to vote.

 

And then they get abused by pseudo liberals like you for doing so.

 

Jeeez, attitudes like yours are part of the problem, but your sense of moral superiority will forever blind you to that simple fact.

I'm anti Thatcher, anti Brexit and anti Muslim. All of these things impinge on the situation in The North.

 

Thatcher's blind monetarism ( guided by Minford et al) wrecked much of the country. Yes some good came of it but it was done too rapidly with no re-investment of our oil bonanza in new industries.

 

Yorkshire towns (Leeds and Harrogate being outliers) are depressing husks of their former glories.

 

And we have Muslim ghettos.

 

No wonder there is despondency, desperation and demagoguery.

 

I tell you this. The EU is the WRONG TARGET. In fact, Joe Bloggs from Barnsley will be worse off, not better.

 

Where are our leaders? Our social democrats?

 

The loss of wool, coal, steel and ship building has largely killed the North. May be an agrarian future with massive depopulation is the way? I think EU regional support is the better way, but where is our government? They could at least get the rail infrastructure in! 

 

We rely upon German locomotive manufacturing and Japanese automobile manufacturing? Where are our indigenous digital, semiconductor, chemical industries? Where are our Apples, Siemens, Toyotas, Boeings, Thyssen Krupps? Hitachis? Philips? 

 

Certainly we have the academics, engineers and scientists. We have the capital and service sectors.

 

If ever there was a time for new leadership it is now.

 

We should lead and change the EU to world dominance. Instead of slouching off in hoodied, dumbed down, insolence we should be striding  forward.