Thaksin vows to fight for ‘democracy'

[robblok]

On 8/10/2018 at 10:57 PM, billd766 said:

 

Never mind Eric. 

 

Strangely enough I believe that Thaksin was/is far more of  a democrat Than Prayuth will ever be.

 

Even if Thaksin came back and stayed in his old ways it would be far more democratic than the people in power now.

That does not matter.. Eric said Thaksin is a Democrat but by Thaksin his own admission he is not and does not care if Thailand is a democracy at all as long as the country goes well.  So that is kinda going totally contrary to what he said. Whenever this happens Eric stays silent and hopes that it goes away so he can come back defending Thaksin.

 

Again, Prayut is not a Democrat... he led a coup, but Thaksin is not a democrat either with ideas like that. But I only got back at Eric calling Thaksin a democrat while he was not. I never made an remark about who of the two evils would be the better Democrat. 

 

Thanksin only uses democracy when its in his advantage nothing more. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by robblok

[starky]

On 8/10/2018 at 8:53 AM, AhFarangJa said:

Oh, come on, who is he kidding. I am the first to admit that I am not well versed in Thai politics, nor am I a supporter of any single party, be it Shinawatra;s or another. But, can he honestly expect anyone to believe that sentence. you always have, and always will have an us and them, rich, poor divide here, no way is there EQUAL dignity, or rights. It may have been a democratically elected government, but only to serve the rich and connected.

As one quote from many years ago regarding a Communist rule......Under Communism we are all equal, just some people are more equal than others.. ( That is not alluding that Taksin is Communist by the way, just an analogy ).

So ptp wasn't an elected government then?

[Jonah Tenner]

In Thailand Democracy is a buzz word they use, because they believe it will give them an advantage with the voters. None of them really understands it.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Jonah Tenner

[robblok]

 

6 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Thaksin was the best PM Thailand has ever had since 1932 in terms of what he gave to the poorest of the country. 

 

The only PM to serve a full term and the only PM to be elected to serve a second term. 

 

He was incredibly popular. His war on drugs and policies in the Southern provinces which are constantly criticised by posters here were universally popular.

 

These are the facts.

 

The amusing thing for me is most of his most vocal critics weren't here when he was serving as PM nor before when the corruption with Suthep and his Democrat buddies was in full swing.

 

Thaksin also was brilliant with the Western media and no PM before or after has come close to him. 

 

no wonder the inadequates in uniform are terrified of him.

I was here when the guy kept lying and got more and more corrupt. Were you  here too when he revitalized the 90 day reporting that was also under his reign. I was indeed here not before that time. I am not ancient sorry.

[metisdead]

If a poster says he is only posting here for the fun, that means his aim is to troll. 

 

Baiting posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

Posts containing inflammatory insults and the replies have been removed.  

 

Please stay on topic and keep it civil while posting.  

[Jim1000]

Thaksin seems to have a different  point of view  about  democracy    --  when in exile .

 

When he was in office I seem to remember him saying he was absolutely against allocating funds for a certain project - ""why should we support them - they didn't vote for us "'

 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

That does not matter.. Eric said Thaksin is a Democrat but by Thaksin his own admission he is not and does not care if Thailand is a democracy at all as long as the country goes well.  So that is kinda going totally contrary to what he said. Whenever this happens Eric stays silent and hopes that it goes away so he can come back defending Thaksin.

 

Again, Prayut is not a Democrat... he led a coup, but Thaksin is not a democrat either with ideas like that. But I only got back at Eric calling Thaksin a democrat while he was not. I never made an remark about who of the two evils would be the better Democrat. 

 

Thanksin only uses democracy when its in his advantage nothing more. 

 

Prayuth uses S44 and men in green suits carrying guns.

 

Much as I dislike Thaksin I would far rather see him back in charge the the power grabbing lot that Thailand has now.

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Prayuth uses S44 and men in green suits carrying guns.

 

Much as I dislike Thaksin I would far rather see him back in charge the the power grabbing lot that Thailand has now.

I would rather not see either one of them in charge. Its not about who is worse its that they are both bad. I feel its not much of a choice between bad and a little less bad. That is like having to choose if I want to be shot or hanged. 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Thaksin was the best PM Thailand has ever had since 1932 in terms of what he gave to the poorest of the country. 

 

The only PM to serve a full term and the only PM to be elected to serve a second term. 

 

He was incredibly popular. His war on drugs and policies in the Southern provinces which are constantly criticised by posters here were universally popular.

 

These are the facts.

 

The amusing thing for me is most of his most vocal critics weren't here when he was serving as PM nor before when the corruption with Suthep and his Democrat buddies was in full swing.

 

Thaksin also was brilliant with the Western media and no PM before or after has come close to him. 

 

no wonder the inadequates in uniform are terrified of him.

 

I was here in 1993, 94 to 97, again in 2001 (when I moved here permanently) to 04 then in and out until I finally retired in 2009.

 

Though I don't like Thaksin or his policies I agree with what you say.

 

I also believe that if he had not been so greedy he could have been legally in power and the best PM Thailand has ever had.

 

I especially agree with the last line.

 

"No wonder the inadequates in uniform are terrified of him."

Edited August 12, 2018 by billd766
edited for bad spelling after I had posted it.

[bannork]

4 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Thaksin was the best PM Thailand has ever had since 1932 in terms of what he gave to the poorest of the country. 

 

The only PM to serve a full term and the only PM to be elected to serve a second term. 

 

He was incredibly popular. His war on drugs and policies in the Southern provinces which are constantly criticised by posters here were universally popular.

 

These are the facts.

 

The amusing thing for me is most of his most vocal critics weren't here when he was serving as PM nor before when the corruption with Suthep and his Democrat buddies was in full swing.

 

Thaksin also was brilliant with the Western media and no PM before or after has come close to him. 

 

no wonder the inadequates in uniform are terrified of him.

His policies in the southern provinces were utterly stupid-  Purachai 's 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.' It was in Thaksin's era that the southern unrest really took off again.

This is a fact.

His war on drugs- really successful- 2, 500 dead, many innocent- yes, just great.

Suthep was corrupt regarding the sor bor kor land  redistribution to poor farmers in Phuket, yes, but that was nothing in comparison to the policy corruption laws of Thaksin that followed

 

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

I was here in 1993, 94 to 97, again in 2001 (when I moved here permanently) to 04 then in and out until I finally retired in 2009.

Though I don't like Thaksin or his policies I agree with what you say.

I also believe that if he had not been so greedy he could have been legally in power and the best PM Thailand has ever had.

I especially agree with the last line.

"No wonder the inadequates in uniform are terrified of him."

".....if he had not been so greedy...." Well isn't that the most thoroughly banal observation re Thaksin one is ever going to read. But then no one ever said wrapping oneself in the Thaksin flag is an easy ride!

[jenny2017]

Lung Thaksin? That sounds like a reborn Adolf who wants to get rid of Nazis. 

[jenny2017]

26 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

".....if he had not been so greedy...." Well isn't that the most thoroughly banal observation re Thaksin one is ever going to read. But then no one ever said wrapping oneself in the Thaksin flag is an easy ride!

Plenty of cheap red shirts on sale......

[jenny2017]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I would rather not see either one of them in charge. Its not about who is worse its that they are both bad. I feel its not much of a choice between bad and a little less bad. That is like having to choose if I want to be shot or hanged. 

+ 1. There are only the devil and the death to choose from. ?

[jenny2017]

48 minutes ago, bannork said:

His policies in the southern provinces were utterly stupid-  Purachai 's 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.' It was in Thaksin's era that the southern unrest really took off again.

This is a fact.

His war on drugs- really successful- 2, 500 dead, many innocent- yes, just great.

Suthep was corrupt regarding the sor bor kor land  redistribution to poor farmers in Phuket, yes, but that was nothing in comparison to the policy corruption laws of Thaksin that followed

 

 Thakisn started the war on drugs because his miserable son was on meth. The pills then skyrocketed from 20 to 500 baht which caused the prostitutes to work 24 hours for one pill only. Well, the Sattahip containers should also never be forgotten, the ones full with skeletons found by fishermen, disappeared as fast as they were found. 

[MrPatrickThai]

53 minutes ago, jenny2017 said:

 Thakisn started the war on drugs because his miserable son was on meth. The pills then skyrocketed from 20 to 500 baht which caused the prostitutes to work 24 hours for one pill only. Well, the Sattahip containers should also never be forgotten, the ones full with skeletons found by fishermen, disappeared as fast as they were found. 

Where I live near Kalasin, most families have a member that was killed by Taksin's war, and for maybe a few pills. He should the electric chair.

[candide]

4 hours ago, jenny2017 said:

 Thakisn started the war on drugs because his miserable son was on meth. The pills then skyrocketed from 20 to 500 baht which caused the prostitutes to work 24 hours for one pill only. Well, the Sattahip containers should also never be forgotten, the ones full with skeletons found by fishermen, disappeared as fast as they were found. 

Are you really that ignorant on why it started?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra#The_War_on_Drugs

 

[tomta]

2 hours ago, candide said:

Are you really that ignorant on why it started?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra#The_War_on_Drugs

 

Not a surprise. Ignorance is a legal obligation. Without ignorance, the dutiful reverence would be impossible to maintain. An ignorant citizen is a good citizen, An informed citizen is a traitor.

[bannork]

Another major blow for Pheua Thai are the looming cases of abuse of authority by the ex-PT MPs in proposing the amnesty bill to benefit Thaksin and the 1.9 billion budget compensation to victims of political violence -  paid  out only to red shirt supporters, the allegations goes. This could lead to a 5 year ban for 33 of Yingluck's Cabinet Ministers, the best and the brightest, to quote David Halberstam.

Death by a thousand cuts for Pheua thai.

[Eligius]

4 hours ago, candide said:

Are you really that ignorant on why it started?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaksin_Shinawatra#The_War_on_Drugs

 

Thanks, Candide, for that link. Very informative and revealing.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, bannork said:

Another major blow for Pheua Thai are the looming cases of abuse of authority by the ex-PT MPs in proposing the amnesty bill to benefit Thaksin and the 1.9 billion budget compensation to victims of political violence -  paid  out only to red shirt supporters, the allegations goes. This could lead to a 5 year ban for 33 of Yingluck's Cabinet Ministers, the best and the brightest, to quote David Halberstam.

Death by a thousand cuts for Pheua thai.

The problem with the PTP (and others) is that they think once they are in power they are above the law. If the PTP followed the law and was not so bias (just like the junta is now bias) they would probably be able to complete a term in government. However their proceeds from corruption would be less and almost all Thai politicians are in it for the money so that will never happen. So the law is always a good way to remove the PTP simply because they break it. 

 

The army on the other hand can't be removed and is as bias as the PTP but in reverse. That is the only good thing the PTP has going for them that they can be removed. Too bad it takes long and only happens after damage is done. That said an army that can't be removed is worse.

 

But how is democracy going to fix this if all the choices are bad, how is a good guy with enough money ever going to get popular enough. Democracy might be the least worse of all the options it certainly does not have all the answers. If all parties you can choose from are corrupt or bad how can voting solve anything then ? Not voting.. bad guys still form a government... voting for someone else.. still bad government. I am not saying there should not be a democracy, just like to see how a democracy can fix the problems there are if there are no real good choices. IMHO it would take years and years for this mess to be sorted out... 3 full cycles of voting at the least. 

 

I hope future forward is as good as they say they are I have been deceived before so we will see. But I just don't see them making an impact this or the next election. To be honest IF the PTP loses a lot because of the defections I see even less possibilities here of a good democratic future. Because that would mean people are not bound to a party but bound to powerful figures in their area and if these guys are for sale (like it looks they are) it will be even harder for good guys to ever make a difference.

 

 

[billd766]

5 hours ago, bannork said:

Another major blow for Pheua Thai are the looming cases of abuse of authority by the ex-PT MPs in proposing the amnesty bill to benefit Thaksin and the 1.9 billion budget compensation to victims of political violence -  paid  out only to red shirt supporters, the allegations goes. This could lead to a 5 year ban for 33 of Yingluck's Cabinet Ministers, the best and the brightest, to quote David Halberstam.

Death by a thousand cuts for Pheua thai.

 

But what convenient timing for the government.

[Eric Loh]

5 hours ago, bannork said:

Another major blow for Pheua Thai are the looming cases of abuse of authority by the ex-PT MPs in proposing the amnesty bill to benefit Thaksin and the 1.9 billion budget compensation to victims of political violence -  paid  out only to red shirt supporters, the allegations goes. This could lead to a 5 year ban for 33 of Yingluck's Cabinet Ministers, the best and the brightest, to quote David Halberstam.

Death by a thousand cuts for Pheua thai.

Prayut and Ahbisit also have their compensation layout to victims of political violence. Got to wonder why they are not investigated and charged by the deep state agency NACC. 

[tomta]

6 hours ago, bannork said:

Another major blow for Pheua Thai are the looming cases of abuse of authority by the ex-PT MPs in proposing the amnesty bill to benefit Thaksin and the 1.9 billion budget compensation to victims of political violence -  paid  out only to red shirt supporters, the allegations goes. This could lead to a 5 year ban for 33 of Yingluck's Cabinet Ministers, the best and the brightest, to quote David Halberstam.

Death by a thousand cuts for Pheua thai.

I'm not a constitutional or  legal expert but the ways in which Parliament can be stymied are myriad. Coups of course, but also these charges of "abuse of authority". In most democratic systems, laws are passed or defeated in Parliament; if passed they can then be ruled against in the highest court as unconstitutional. In Thailand, laws can be squashed in the highest court before they even become law. I believe that happened to a Pheau Thai proposal to restore a fully elected senate which was ruled by some ingenious legal reasoning as antithetical to "democracy under the constitutional monarchy". Be that as it may, here we have the amnesty law which was defeated in Parliament - which one would think should be enough to satisfy all its opponents - become the pretext for another case against Pheaua Thai. It was proposed as a law and it failed to convince Parliament. Why keep this up?.

 

The subtleties of all this elude me . Can anyone explain it? I'm not sure whether you approve of this, Bannork, or are just reporting it. To me it is the height of viciousness and vindictiveness and a desire to crush and humiliate the enemy.

 

And now, of course, the 20 year plan to further shackle a weakened parliament.

Edited August 13, 2018 by tomta
clarify

[billd766]

34 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Prayut and Ahbisit also have their compensation layout to victims of political violence. Got to wonder why they are not investigated and charged by the deep state agency NACC. 

 

Because that may be inconvenient.

[bannork]

7 minutes ago, tomta said:

I'm not a constitutional or  legal expert but the ways in which Parliament can be stymied are myriad. Coups of course, but also these charges of "abuse of authority". In most democratic systems, laws are passed or defeated in Parliament; if passed they can then be ruled against in the highest court as unconstitutional. In Thailand, laws can be squashed in the highest court before they even become law. I believe that happened to a Pheau Thai proposal to restore a fully elected senate which was ruled by some ingenious legal reasoning as antithetical to "democracy under the constitutional monarchy". Be that as it may, here we have the amnesty law which was defeated in Parliament - which one would think should be enough to satisfy all its opponents - become the pretext for another case against Pheaua Thai. It was proposed as a law and it failed to convince Parliament. Why keep this up?.

 

The subtleties of all this elude me . Can anyone explain it? I'm not sure whether you approve of this, Bannork, or are just reporting it. To me it is the height of viciousness and vindictiveness and a desire to crush and humiliate the enemy.

 

And now, of course, the 20 year plan to further shackle a weakened parliament.

I'm not approving it. I can't stand Thaksin and his stranglehold over Pheua Thai but one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see a concerted plan playing out here to destroy his party. And that's not right.

The coup back in 2006 utterly failed to eradicate his influence but this time round the establishment is determined to do so. They may yet fail. Thaksin's parties have risen from the ashes twice before after being banned, but this time it will be harder. He has no obvious charismatic leader and the pervasiveness of the military and its agencies in every district and subdistrict in Thailand means PT face an uphill struggle if or when the election occurs.

[SheungWan]

10 minutes ago, bannork said:

I'm not approving it. I can't stand Thaksin and his stranglehold over Pheua Thai but one doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to see a concerted plan playing out here to destroy his party. And that's not right.

The coup back in 2006 utterly failed to eradicate his influence but this time round the establishment is determined to do so. They may yet fail. Thaksin's parties have risen from the ashes twice before after being banned, but this time it will be harder. He has no obvious charismatic leader and the pervasiveness of the military and its agencies in every district and subdistrict in Thailand means PT face an uphill struggle if or when the election occurs.

'his party'. And to think Thaksin spent the whole period of Yingluck's period in office denying that reality while at the same time subordinating the party to one end. Not even bothering now to pretend otherwise it appears.

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

'his party'. And to think Thaksin spent the whole period of Yingluck's period in office denying that reality while at the same time subordinating the party to one end. Not even bothering now to pretend otherwise it appears.

Yes and with the new law Thaksin will have an even harder time as he can't be seen to influence the PTP (but he holds meetings with them all the time). So I think this is a problem too. This is something good actually because in other countries convicted criminals can't run a party by proxy either.

Edited August 13, 2018 by robblok

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Prayut and Ahbisit also have their compensation layout to victims of political violence. Got to wonder why they are not investigated and charged by the deep state agency NACC. 

 

I'm not into 'provide a link', so i'll stay with 'I often have doubts about the accuracy of what you post'. 

[robblok]

Just a quick question as I don't know, is there a law in Thailand that states if your convicted of corruption or something you can't be a MP or PM ?