UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[Guest]

 

 

It's not a good deal. I would rather choose to just quit Brexit.  Failing that at least No Deal fulfils the idea of Brexit.  Yes, things will be terrible for a while.  And yes, it will not be good for the EU at all, especially if UK recovers, which it has a long history of doing.  Common sense requires we just stop Brexit.  I don't see why it's such a big issue- obvious strategy.

The deal is naturally not as good agreement, what Britain already had when being an EU member. That was clear from the start. UK always had to choose from worse options compared what it had with being inside EU. 

 

This deal is the best UK could have. EU was fair for the UK in the negotiations. Let's not forget that EU was talking to a far smaller party, who wanted to leave the union.

 

This is the reality about Brexit.

 

Take the deal or leave it. Leaving the deal is far worse option for UK, but at least it no longer be EU's headache anymore. 

[nauseus]

 

I didn't, and I was around when the GBP was in the high 80s in Thb.

 

Sigh. I miss those good old days

Yes, January 1998!

[melvinmelvin]

 

Not quite. Your government has been informed in no uncertain wordings that this is the only deal there is. It's no longer UK's parliament right to change the deal. It is what it is. 

 

Vote the deal down and you are facing a no-deal Brexit. That might be hard brexiters dream, but hardly good for the country.. nor good for the EU either. 

 

Enough is enough. 

if deal should be shot down by parliament

it can still be altered, several European PMs have in recent interviews stated that they are open to that.

 

EU has no interest in a no deal Brexit, on the contrary

 

[Grouse]

 

 

This same old tired rhetoric being wheeled out yet again eh?. 

 

27-28% of the population voted for Brexit.

This is not an argument. How many of the remainder were either not eligible to vote at the time or not on the electoral roll? This would likely be the same (if not less) in the event of a re-run. People die and people become of age to vote. The numbers stay roughly the same. The one thing that would change these numbers more significantly is people getting themselves on the electoral roll of their own volition. That may happen in the event of a re-run, something tells me it probably won't, though. 

 

37-38% of the electorate voted for Brexit.

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that those who do not vote do not count in the democratic process, by default! BTW: I can totally understand why people don't usually bother to vote, especially at national/general elections, but this was neither - it was a special (supposed) one-off vote that was given to the people to decide on - regarding one specific issue, and don't forget it was the largest voter turnout in British History. 33+ million people is a huge electoral turnout for the UK - way above anything else we have ever had and the majority of that electorate voted FOR Brexit. That says a lot!

 

You won one ballot on one day.

This is how voting works mate, it happens over a short period and isn't a continuous drawn out process over many days or weeks, for (what should be) obvious reasons. So again - what is your point here? I don't think you have one.

 

You can spin it any way you want but you can't call it "the will of the people".

Very simply - yes it was, yes we can, and we will. Because this is the truth of the matter, inconvenient though it may be for those who didn't get the result they desired. Don't like the current system we have? Then how about proposing a new way of voting?

 

The Brexiteers lied about everything, there are legitimate questions about their finances and foreign influence still to be answered.

There were undoubtedly a lot of lies, exaggerations and distortion of facts put out by both sides, but to be fair, Remain were by far and away worse in this respect. The spending/foreign influence arguments are purely conjecture and none of it has been proven and I doubt ever will be, there is nowhere near enough evidence, the spurious conjecture is all we ever hear of course. I wonder why? The exact same accusation re: government funding, inflated spending allowances & BBC partiality was leveled at the Remain campaign too don't forget. Far less coverage of that of course. The BBC acting as a virtual mouthpiece for Remain for one thing, that inequality is rarely if ever taken into account by Remoaners.

 

Whatever the outcome the countries of the UK are hopelessly divided.

No argument there! Here's to hoping that those who didn't get their way grow up & attempt to unite going forward. It's well overdue at this point.

 

I won't go into the Labour / Corbyn points, but I would like to ask you this:

 

Just say that Remain had won, and you had got your wish for us to stay in the EU no questions asked - in ALL honesty - would you still be making the same erroneous claims that you are?

 

And secondly, let's say the worst case scenario comes to fruition and we are forced into a 2nd ref., we have it and the result comes out at around the same small margin - but with a defeat for Leave, but this time we see a smaller proportion of the population/electorate voting, as I think would be the case, not least because of Brexit ennui; let's say 20% of the total population vote and of that 20% the electorate is reduced to around 30% for Remain vs 28% for Leave, will you still be making the same strident claims about 'the will of the people'? Something tells me you definitely wouldn't and here lies the problem - these trivial claims are just total hypocrisy on your and a great many other Remoaners' behalves. 

 

Lastly, just say we do have the referendum a 2nd time and the result comes back with another slim margin victory for Leave, will you and every other Remainer promise to shut up and move on with your life? 

Yes

[Guest]

 

if deal should be shot down by parliament

it can still be altered, several European PMs have in recent interviews stated that they are open to that.

 

EU has no interest in a no deal Brexit, on the contrary

 

I have a feeling that at this point, if the deal is not approved by the UK parliament, our EU has had quite enough of petty UK's childish political problems. 

 

At that point it's time to cut the ties, even if it hurts us quite a lot. Enough of UK's childish games. 

 

Cut them out. 

[Srikcir]

 

if deal should be shot down by parliament

it can still be altered, several European PMs have in recent interviews stated that they are open to that. 

 

EU has no interest in a no deal Brexit, on the contrary

 

On  the contrary:

"How on earth a Labour government could persuade the EU to violate its own treaties, when a Conservative government has failed to do so in two years of negotiation, is a complete mystery. In a barbed comment, Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission, warned that “those who think that by rejecting the deal that they would have a better deal will be disappointed in the first seconds after the rejection of this deal.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2018/11/25/the-eu-has-approved-theresa-mays-terrible-deal-now-what/#4deff2555855

[tebee]

 

Tebee..you want another referenfum re brexit..set your ground rules..best of 3/5/7/9..exactly where do you start/stop with this nonsense.
Best to accept that the LEAVE vote won and get on with your life??!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Actually I don't want a second referendum - my preference  would be for the gov to admit there is no good brexit and just abandon the whole stupid idea.

 

But there is maybe a democratic deficit arising from that - a 2nd(3rd) ref would address that problem. If the country is stupid enough to vote leave again, then it deserves everything it gets - the first time people had an excuse that they did not know what they are voting for.    

[Grouse]

 

As your focus on numbers Remember that less people voted for Remain

Less people voted for Brexit ( unless you meant fewer people?)

[Grouse]

 

As your focus on numbers Remember that less people voted for Remain

Less people voted for Brexit ( unless you meant fewer people?)

 

[Guest]

 

On  the contrary:

"How on earth a Labour government could persuade the EU to violate its own treaties, when a Conservative government has failed to do so in two years of negotiation, is a complete mystery. In a barbed comment, Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission, warned that “those who think that by rejecting the deal that they would have a better deal will be disappointed in the first seconds after the rejection of this deal.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2018/11/25/the-eu-has-approved-theresa-mays-terrible-deal-now-what/#4deff2555855

Indeed. EU clearly says that there is no Plan B, what the hugely arrogant UK media and MP's now wishest to ask from PM May. There is no other option anymore. 

 

Should UK get it's act together and cancel Brexit altogether, perhaps the rest of us EU members would allow that to happen, but I really wouldn't take it as granted anymore.

 

UK has caused this stupid and silly brexit drama by itself. I'm pretty sure nobody in EU countries wishes to go through it once again. 

[Grouse]

 

Indeed. EU clearly says that there is no Plan B, what the hugely arrogant UK media and MP's now wishest to ask from PM May. There is no other option anymore. 

 

Should UK get it's act together and cancel Brexit altogether, perhaps the rest of us EU members would allow that to happen, but I really wouldn't take it as granted anymore.

 

UK has caused this stupid and silly brexit drama by itself. I'm pretty sure nobody in EU countries wishes to go through it once again. 

I'm rather more sanguine than that.

 

I think the U.K. Has leverage now

 

We remain

 

IF

 

same deal as before

 

no more moves to Strasbourg 

 

More pruning of CAP

 

limitations on immigration due to population density 

 

Farage banned from European Parliament.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

 

Brexiters were put in charge of leaving the EU, the foreign office, international trade and the back bench for the seventeenth century. They all turned out to be useless, just as you would expect.

 

I must say though, the standard of MPs generally is embarrassing. I would like to see all MPs facing reselection  before every election. Frankly, most of them are just not clever enough or knowledgeable enough. Anyone see Labour's shadow foreign trade minister? What a spasmo. I reckon only about 10% are good enough and that includes all the parties.

10% is perhaps being a little generous? ????

 

I don't make the same distinctions as you though. Brexiteers seem to have among them some of the more intelligent and able politicians.

Compare these two sets as an example.

 

JRM / Farage / D Davis / BoJo / C.Grayling / Kate Hoey / Gisela Stuart and M.Gove.

 

vs

 

Clegg / Milliband / Cameron / Soubry / D.Abbott ???? / E.Thornberry ???? and T.Blair! ????

 

No contest. Whatever you think of their personal politics, the Brexiteers have the intelligent, knowledgeable politicians in the fold - they generally a have damn sight more integrity too. Not Gove/BoJo so much, perhaps, but you get the point....or probably don't, as the case may be.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Tweedle dee]

 

Indeed. EU clearly says that there is no Plan B, what the hugely arrogant UK media and MP's now wishest to ask f.1rom PM May. There is no other option anymore. 

 

Should UK get it's act together and cancel Brexit altogether, perhaps the rest of us EU members would allow that to happen, but I really wouldn't take it as granted anymore.

 

UK has caused this stupid and silly brexit drama by itself. I'm pretty sure nobody in EU countries wishes to go through it once again. 

It was 'silly' deranged fck witts that got us into it. and one of them was a proven kiddy fiddler.

[nauseus]

 

The deal is naturally not as good agreement, what Britain already had when being an EU member. That was clear from the start. UK always had to choose from worse options compared what it had with being inside EU. 

 

This deal is the best UK could have. EU was fair for the UK in the negotiations. Let's not forget that EU was talking to a far smaller party, who wanted to leave the union.

 

This is the reality about Brexit.

 

Take the deal or leave it. Leaving the deal is far worse option for UK, but at least it no longer be EU's headache anymore. 

Sounds like Tusk. Tsk tsk.

[Grouse]

 

It should be zero....  There is absolutely no reason for the UK to pay the EU 39 bn at all.

 

Even more ridiculous in view of her leave in name only 'agreement' with the EU!

You don't think commitments was a good movie? 

[Guest]

 

I'm rather more sanguine than that.

 

I think the U.K. Has leverage now

 

We remain

 

IF

 

same deal as before

 

no more moves to Strasbourg 

 

More pruning of CAP

 

limitations on immigration due to population density 

 

Farage banned from European Parliament.

Farage being banned from EU parliament would be a great thing ????. but let's not forget, he also was a product of UK. 

 

I suppose it's now time for Britain to be on the sidelines, to really think through what Britain is, what British people are worth compared to the rest of the European people.

 

After a decade or so, Britain can perhaps re-apply to become a member of EU once again. With Euro and Schengen, naturally. We wouldn't want to have half members joining us at that point anymore.

 

 

[nauseus]

 

I have a feeling that at this point, if the deal is not approved by the UK parliament, our EU has had quite enough of petty UK's childish political problems. 

 

At that point it's time to cut the ties, even if it hurts us quite a lot. Enough of UK's childish games. 

 

Cut them out. 

I hope and trust that will use your obviously powerful influence to achieve this then.

[Grouse]

 

Tebee..you want another referenfum re brexit..set your ground rules..best of 3/5/7/9..exactly where do you start/stop with this nonsense.
Best to accept that the LEAVE vote won and get on with your life??!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

One more will do.

 

The "people" will never be asked their opinion ever again.

[Guest]

 

Sounds like Tusk. Tsk tsk.

Yet smells like reality, snif, snif. 

[nauseus]

 

Farage being banned from EU parliament would be a great thing ????. but let's not forget, he also was a product of UK. 

 

I suppose it's now time for Britain to be on the sidelines, to really think through what Britain is, what British people are worth compared to the rest of the European people.

 

After a decade or so, Britain can perhaps re-apply to become a member of EU once again. With Euro and Schengen, naturally. We wouldn't want to have half members joining us at that point anymore.

 

 

I don't think that the British should re-apply, with us being so unworthy and all.  

[Guest]

 

I don't think that the British should re-apply, with us being so unworthy and all.  

Most of the Brits are pretty great people. There are however some bad apples among them. 

 

They way Britain handles Brexit negotiations, where Britain is the smaller party, will naturally define how worthy Britain will be seen by the eyes of global audience. 

 

That should be granted. 

[malagateddy]

One more will do.
 
The "people" will never be asked their opinion ever again.

Must be an odd number then 2-1..3-2 etc is FINAL..as there cannot be extra time..penalties etc

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Grouse]

 

10% is perhaps being a little generous? ????

 

I don't make the same distinctions as you though. Brexiteers seem to have among them some of the more intelligent and able politicians.

Compare these two sets as an example.

 

JRM / Farage / D Davis / BoJo / C.Grayling / Kate Hoey / Gisela Stuart and M.Gove.

 

vs

 

Clegg / Milliband / Cameron / Soubry / D.Abbott ???? / E.Thornberry ???? and T.Blair! ????

 

No contest. Whatever you think of their personal politics, the Brexiteers have the intelligent, knowledgeable politicians in the fold - they generally a have damn sight more integrity too. Not Gove/BoJo so much, perhaps, but you get the point....or probably don't, as the case may be.

 

Indeed, no contest but I'll swap Abbott for, er, anything really

[melvinmelvin]

 

On  the contrary:

"How on earth a Labour government could persuade the EU to violate its own treaties, when a Conservative government has failed to do so in two years of negotiation, is a complete mystery. In a barbed comment, Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the European Commission, warned that “those who think that by rejecting the deal that they would have a better deal will be disappointed in the first seconds after the rejection of this deal.”

https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2018/11/25/the-eu-has-approved-theresa-mays-terrible-deal-now-what/#4deff2555855

what kind of bah bah bo bo is this?

 

violating treaties? where on earth do you get that from?

 

Juncker is very far from being the decision maker here,

the decision makers is the heads of states body

several have already expressed that they are open to changes

 

 

[talahtnut]

Any of you remainers know whats happening in France,

and still want to remain?

[nauseus]

 

Less people voted for Brexit ( unless you meant fewer people?)

 

More..More!

[nauseus]

 

Farage being banned from EU parliament would be a great thing ????. but let's not forget, he also was a product of UK. 

 

I suppose it's now time for Britain to be on the sidelines, to really think through what Britain is, what British people are worth compared to the rest of the European people.

 

After a decade or so, Britain can perhaps re-apply to become a member of EU once again. With Euro and Schengen, naturally. We wouldn't want to have half members joining us at that point anymore.

 

 

Naturally.

[adammike]

 

10% is perhaps being a little generous? ????

 

I don't make the same distinctions as you though. Brexiteers seem to have among them some of the more intelligent and able politicians.

Compare these two sets as an example.

 

JRM / Farage / D Davis / BoJo / C.Grayling / Kate Hoey / Gisela Stuart and M.Gove.

 

vs

 

Clegg / Milliband / Cameron / Soubry / D.Abbott ???? / E.Thornberry ???? and T.Blair! ????

 

No contest. Whatever you think of their personal politics, the Brexiteers have the intelligent, knowledgeable politicians in the fold - they generally a have damn sight more integrity too. Not Gove/BoJo so much, perhaps, but you get the point....or probably don't, as the case may be.

 

Now you are taking the piss.

[tebee]

 

Any of you remainers know whats happening in France,

and still want to remain?

Wait till the post Brexit shortages hit !

[nauseus]

 

One more will do.

 

The "people" will never be asked their opinion ever again.

As long as the leave vote is reversed, of course.