UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[tebee]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

...

To even talk about what Scotland wants ignores the fact that about half wouldn't want it, and, as pertinently, large regions within Scotland were staunchly pro-UK to the extent that they were prepared to remain part of the UK and not Scotland.

 

 

So - a bit like Brexit then?

 

So why are we doing one and not the other ?

[tebee]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It's all British. No reason why foreign scientists should not be able to work here in the future.  

other than that the government may not give them visas ....

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-student-visa-block-amsterdam-university-glasgow-psychology-masters-a8594881.html

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/thousands-of-scientists-and-doctors-from-outside-eu-denied-uk-work-visas-a3840616.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-visa-foreign-workers-denied-entry-theresa-may-doctors-engineers-jobs-brexit-a8354266.html

 

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/visa-refusals-uk-stem-talent

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

the government may not give them visas

Doesn't want foreigners taking jobs away from Brits?

A very popular viewpoint among "nationalists."

[kwilco]

It really is beyond belief that so many people have become so collectively dimwitted that they have no idea how the UK will be strangled by Brexit.

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-hauliers/with-brexit-talks-in-gridlock-british-truckers-plan-for-the-worst-idUKKCN1MZ0KZ?fbclid=IwAR02zds7BcgFUE17joq1MV56D7T1XfoumO9IoH7toDt61J0jksUxOLYspXk

[My Thai Life]

14 hours ago, Grouse said:

You really don't get it do you

 

For the last 20 years there has been peace and tranquility. Brexit is going to screw that up.

 

The armalite comment was a quip, a bon mot, which took a ballistic trajectory right over your head!

 

Those sort of comments confirm you as a brexiter what ever your opinions on Brexit!

Yes I really do get it. Your "bon mots" might seem bon to you in the warm glow of a couple of Grouses. To the rest of us they are just infantile, and not infrequently abusive, as you prove again here.

 

The question which I addressed to Sandy was why does the Dr in Sandy's quote think there's going to be an increase in smuggling (specifically of dangerous goods) into NI from Ireland after the UK leaves the EU? Your two responses have not even attempted to answer the question, just served the usual purpose of providing you with a platform for cheap insults and lowering the tone of what could be a very interesting thread.

 

I've said repeatedly that I am not a Brexiter. I am just someone who supports referendum results. Failing to do that makes a travesty of democracy.

[kwilco]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

It's all British. No reason why foreign scientists should not be able to work here in the future.  

...and who will fund them,????

[kwilco]

8 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

I've said repeatedly that I am not a Brexiter. I am just someone who supports referendum results. Failing to do that makes a travesty of democracy.

So I take it you would have been gullible enough to support all these referendums?

 

https://www.historytoday.com/nigel-jones/referendums-device-despots

 

 

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.conversion-uplift.co.uk/brexit-referendum-and-democracy/&ved=2ahUKEwj7lMq_mKPeAhVPWX0KHf9mCqwQFjAEegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1iyAKZ7-S8M79Ma-qTWYS5

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by kwilco

[My Thai Life]

3 minutes ago, kwilco said:

So I take it you would have been gullible enough to support all these referendums?

Most Leavers here seem to be incapable of posting without insults, often in one liners devoid of logic and facts, as you have demonstrated again.  Actually, a good portion of the "Leavers" here are international trolls with no vote on the matter any way. And you?

 

I accepted the referendum result on the way in, and I accepted the referendum result on the way out.

 

Referenda are a "device for dictators and demagogues" only when they don't go your way right.

[My Thai Life]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

So why are we doing one and not the other ?

Well the Scots voted to stay in the UK, and the UK voted to leave the EU.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It really is beyond belief that so many people have become so collectively dimwitted that they have no idea how the UK will be strangled by Brexit.

 

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-hauliers/with-brexit-talks-in-gridlock-british-truckers-plan-for-the-worst-idUKKCN1MZ0KZ?fbclid=IwAR02zds7BcgFUE17joq1MV56D7T1XfoumO9IoH7toDt61J0jksUxOLYspXk

It's kind of nice to think that EU will make the air in UK cleaner, even after Brexit. That's what we do in EU, good things for the ordinary people. Clean air belongs to all of us.

 

Quote

 

Upgrading the emissions standards of his fleet would allow him to compete for the 984 annual European travel permits allocated for British trucks next year.

 

Competition will be fierce. Some 38,000 British trucks routinely drive in the EU and, if there is no Brexit deal, they will only be able to carry on with a permit. Britain’s EU membership meant they have never needed one before.

 

 

[My Thai Life]

On 10/25/2018 at 10:07 AM, sandyf said:

But, Dr Hayward told the all-party Brexit committee: “If the UK is saying it is not enforcing a border at this point, there is a risk of smuggling of dangerous goods into the UK through its open borders.”

And, asked if governments could allow that situation to continue for “years”, she replied: “It’s not their choice to say whether they are going to enforce the border or not - they would be obliged to do so under international law.

Sandy, you seem to be one of the few that's taking more than a passing interest in the Irish border "issue". 

 

According to The Spectator, the Attorney General Geoffrey Cox told ministers on Tuesday this week that the UK has a choice to accept a backstop it cannot get out of, push for no deal or renounce the backstop entirely.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

15 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Suggest you do a search on this topic for mini you will find the mini factory is not on a 3 day week until xmas its a jaguar landrover plant and that is due to lack of demand for diesel engine cars and drop off of orders from China

As for Ford do you know how many vehicles Ford builds in the UK  its ZERO

Research!!!??? Critical thought!!!??? Not relying on received wisdom and the establishment's hyperbole??!?!?!?

 

Seems like these ideas aren't in your average staunch Remoaner's sphere of understanding or interest. Hence why it has been so easy to undermine their half-baked arguments and why we see little else but 'triggered' impassioned comments with a generous helping of ad-hom insults. 

 

The metropolitan intelligentsia and those who hang on their every word know it all - they know what is best for everyone, or so they say, yet have been proven wrong about the EU time and again in recent years (ERM / EURO / OPEN BORDERS & MULTICULTURALISM EXPERIMENT / ECB SOVEREIGN v FEDERAL DEBT INITIATIVE to name but a few) and of course it has become increasingly obvious that their interests in the EU are utterly vested and therefore they are acolytes and their rhetoric must be largely discounted. If they were capable of objective analysis of the institution in question they would surely have to concede there are far more negatives to it than positives. 

 

Lack of critical thought comes in to play at this point.

 

And yet... these people have the nerve to tell us plebs, who voted the 'wrong way', that we are dim-witted, bottom feeding, philistine thugs.  It's such a shame the media across Europe is so largely comprised of an instructed by such people, otherwise this POV may not be the default one pushed upon the people via the majority of MSM and 'normalised' in the process. BBC are the biggest culprits IMO, as you have to pay a tax for the pleasure of witnessing them prattle on too!

 

It's breath-taking.   

Edited October 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[RuamRudy]

12 hours ago, mommysboy said:

I would agree, but will it any cleaner or shorter than Brexit? I doubt it and one will still be left with half the country not wanting it.  Another sxxxfest!

 

I sincerely hope Scotland does not devolve, but I fully understand the reasons why.  It really is out of sheer despair at Westminster rather than a genuine desire to split from England, Wales, and N.Ireland, and that's not good!

 

Any Referendum must be won by super majority- surely we can all agree with that after this Brexit fiasco.  In my opinion, there really shouldn't be a referendum for another 25 years or so, however, we do live in strange times.

Will it be any more complex than Brexit? I am not so sure. Scotland already has its own, distinctly different, legal system, its own education system, NHS etc. Of course there will need to be negotiations and agreements reached on a large number of wider issues, and possibly the same brinkmanship we see with Brexit will be at play, but should an objective with a positive outcome (subjective, of course) be deferred because it will be a challenge to achieve?

 

My instincts are to agree with you that a supermajority was the only reasonable and practical way to enact fundamental change via referendum, however with both indyref1 and Brexit being decided on simple majorities, I imagine any suggestion of a supermajority would be met with massive outrage. The die has been cast.

[RuamRudy]

34 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Well the Scots voted to stay in the UK, and the UK voted to leave the EU.

The Scots were told that the only way to secure EU membership was to stay in the UK; to leave the UK was a guaranteed means of leaving the EU and, possibly, not being allowed to return. 

[My Thai Life]

A few people have expressed concern about the car industry post Brexit and Just In Time (JIT) supply chains.  The car industry is estimated to employ 0.5 per cent of all UK employees (less than half the number of farmers), and its gross value added to the UK economy is about 0.8 per cent of GDP.

 

A report from the Boston Consulting Group (one of the most well known management consultancies)  "shows that a representative UK auto manufacturer imports only 36 per cent of its components from the EU -  21 per cent are imported from non-EU countries and the largest proportion (43 per cent up from 36 per cent in 2011) are sourced from the UK.  Post-Brexit, the proportion of components sourced from the EU is likely to decline sharply - particularly as the new technologies mentioned above take their place in the supply chain.

 

The 21 per cent currently imported from non-EU countries already undergo customs and other border checks and self-evidently do not create problems with just-in-time supply chains.  Such just-in-time supply chains operate globally across customs borders without difficulty - eg, throughout Asia, or amongst South American, North America, Europe, and Asia.  What makes these supply chains work are modern computer-based logistics systems and border procedures mandated by WTO rules and procedures that dictate 'frictionless trade' - particularly for high volume, regular shipments such as those of the auto industry.”

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/25/protectionist-car-lobby-should-not-dictating-terms-brexit-rest/

 

[billd766]

12 hours ago, oilinki said:

I like it when you answer your question yourself. ????

 

(Sometimes I think you are just like me. Starting a 'feels' reply based on educated guess, while doing fact checking in background. Afterwards getting unexpected results, including those results, with grunt, as only the facts matter)

 

You are quite right Talbot Horizon nor Saab 96 are no longer in production. ????

 

So what does the mighty Finnish nation make in the way of automobiles? What world class vehicles have been designed and built in Finland?

 

I merely did a Google search to see if you knew what you were talking about and concluded that you don't.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

12 hours ago, oilinki said:

Scotland can see a much more virile EU being a much interesting partner than aging England is. 

 

You should be a professional satirist with comments like that! Or should I say... comedian? ???? 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So what does the mighty Finnish nation make in the way of automobiles? What world class vehicles have been designed and built in Finland?

 

I merely did a Google search to see if you knew what you were talking about and concluded that you don't.

I'm actually not too sure of the current situation. Saab, Porche and Merc has been the traditional customers. As far as I know, there has been been design, just building the smoke machines. 

 

Hopefully with the electric car revolution, there will be more of the design part as well. 

 

We like to design and build boats. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

It's all British. No reason why foreign scientists should not be able to work here in the future.  

Brexit keeps on giving. I suppose everyone above the average IQ should not be allowed to work in UK according to the brexiteers. 

 

I guess you'll get just that at the end of the day.

[Jip99]

In which case, there will certainly be job opportunities for you Oili.   ????

[nauseus]

19 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Brexit keeps on giving. I suppose everyone above the average IQ should not be allowed to work in UK according to the brexiteers. 

 

I guess you'll get just that at the end of the day.

You just become more and more incomprehensible.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, tebee said:

other than that the government may not give them visas ....

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-student-visa-block-amsterdam-university-glasgow-psychology-masters-a8594881.html

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/thousands-of-scientists-and-doctors-from-outside-eu-denied-uk-work-visas-a3840616.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-visa-foreign-workers-denied-entry-theresa-may-doctors-engineers-jobs-brexit-a8354266.html

 

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/careers/visa-refusals-uk-stem-talent

I think they will. That's what I said. Enjoy your daily "news".

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

...and who will fund them,????

the government 

[brucec64]

Yes I really do get it. Your "bon mots" might seem bon to you in the warm glow of a couple of Grouses. To the rest of us they are just infantile, and not infrequently abusive, as you prove again here.
 
The question which I addressed to Sandy was why does the Dr in Sandy's quote think there's going to be an increase in smuggling (specifically of dangerous goods) into NI from Ireland after the UK leaves the EU? Your two responses have not even attempted to answer the question, just served the usual purpose of providing you with a platform for cheap insults and lowering the tone of what could be a very interesting thread.
 
I've said repeatedly that I am not a Brexiter. I am just someone who supports referendum results. Failing to do that makes a travesty of democracy.

I dont think smuggling will start day one because both sides of the border are curently at similar regulatory and taxation levels. As these diverge, so will the incentive to smuggle. The Norway model is often quoted, but they are struggling with smuggling, especially because of a large tax difference on alcohol, to the point that they are installing cameras and other security measures at the border. Also, if tarriffs are implemented, there would be an incentive to smuggle both ways to avoid paying tarriffs.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[mommysboy]

In the final analysis, is it not possible to comfortably predict that Brexit will fail-at least in the short term- just because the EU wants it to fail?  That's the price...isn't it?

 

And, as a reluctant Remainer, I do have to ask myself why it is some of our most prominent politicians also agree with Leavers that it is imperative to Leave.  Corbyn, in particular is a canny fox.

 

This notwithstanding, I believe the Government has been woeful in the performance of its duties to the country.

 

The best result imo is to ditch Brexit.  I don't see how this threatens democracy or brings the vote in to disrepute- The Government maybe.

 

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

Brexit keeps on giving. I suppose everyone above the average IQ should not be allowed to work in UK according to the brexiteers. 

 

I guess you'll get just that at the end of the day.

I used to work in a brit. company with many subsidiaries in other companies - and they had no problem bringing in a few well-paid/anticipated 'high flyer' employees (from non-eu country subsidiaries) to provide them with experience in GHO.

 

You're trying to turn a 'non' problem' into a 'problem' - when it comes to well-paid, intelligent people - who have mostly always been able to easily obtain employment visas when they are offered jobs in the uk, or elsewhere.

 

The problem has always centred around non-skilled workers paid the minimum wage (at best) - which has badly affected the poorest paid brit. workers, and 'trickled up' the chain.  Which has proven to be far more effective than the 'trickle down' theory!

 

 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

A few people have expressed concern about the car industry post Brexit and Just In Time (JIT) supply chains.  The car industry is estimated to employ 0.5 per cent of all UK employees (less than half the number of farmers), and its gross value added to the UK economy is about 0.8 per cent of GDP.

 

A report from the Boston Consulting Group (one of the most well known management consultancies)  "shows that a representative UK auto manufacturer imports only 36 per cent of its components from the EU -  21 per cent are imported from non-EU countries and the largest proportion (43 per cent up from 36 per cent in 2011) are sourced from the UK.  Post-Brexit, the proportion of components sourced from the EU is likely to decline sharply - particularly as the new technologies mentioned above take their place in the supply chain.

 

The 21 per cent currently imported from non-EU countries already undergo customs and other border checks and self-evidently do not create problems with just-in-time supply chains.  Such just-in-time supply chains operate globally across customs borders without difficulty - eg, throughout Asia, or amongst South American, North America, Europe, and Asia.  What makes these supply chains work are modern computer-based logistics systems and border procedures mandated by WTO rules and procedures that dictate 'frictionless trade' - particularly for high volume, regular shipments such as those of the auto industry.”

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/10/25/protectionist-car-lobby-should-not-dictating-terms-brexit-rest/

 

Remain grossly over-egged the problems of EU trade after Brexit. But if Dyson, an ardent Brexiteer, doesn't see fit to build any of his solar powered broomsticks in the UK then there is a cause for concern here.

 

Still, should we be bothered about a small industry, which is destroying the earth's eco system? Not me!

[tebee]

Brexit as a megaproject 

 

+ 

 

Why it will probably fail and be late and over budget.

 

 The Sydney Opera House itself is, of course, a stunning achievement, but unlike the Guggenheim Bilbao it is an achievement built on lies.....

 

As far as Brexit is concerned, we have dashed down to Bennelong Point and started shovelling frenetically, desperate that no one should “stop this going through to completion”. Perhaps one day we will get the Sydney Opera House, although that seems unlikely, at the moment, we’re at the bottom of a deep hole and we are still digging.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/004649ec-d83e-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

In the final analysis, is it not possible to comfortably predict that Brexit will fail-at least in the short term- just because the EU wants it to fail?  That's the price...isn't it?

 

And, as a reluctant Remainer, I do have to ask myself why it is some of our most prominent politicians also agree with Leavers that it is imperative to Leave.  Corbyn, in particular is a canny fox.

 

This notwithstanding, I believe the Government has been woeful in the performance of its duties to the country.

 

The best result imo is to ditch Brexit.  I don't see how this threatens democracy or brings the vote in to disrepute- The Government maybe.

 

Best result iyo, I know. But the leavers opinion is opposite, as we see the EU itself as an ever-increasing threat to UK sovereignty and democracy and any overturning of the referendum result as a permanently damaging rejection of democracy. 

[tebee]

Well -  no one could have foreseen this!

 

Argentina will exploit a no-deal Brexit to 'enhance' its claims to Falklands, says its foreign minister 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/25/argentina-will-exploit-no-deal-brexit-enhance-falklands-claims/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw