UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, Patriot1066 said:

It does nothing for the poor it just moves people around so the fat cats can make more money. A big fat Ponzi scheme.

That's modern capitalism you're describing.  Sadly, this is the problem with Brexit: it seeks to portray the country's problems as caused by the EU.  How do you think this fundamental issue will be relieved after Brexit? UK has been at the forefront of Neo-liberalism.

Edited November 6, 2018 by mommysboy

[SheungWan]

8 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I know of white collar boxing, never been to a match, but would like to. My brother in law is an ex-Muay Thai instructor and having practiced it myself since 16, I can honestly say I'd like to meet OJ in the ring too. I think I'd almost feel too guilty to smack him one though, he looks like he never hit puberty, poor little lad. Probably among the reasons behind his apparent social angst and his burning political hatreds. ????

Oh hello! Its the 'my brother-in-law' killer argument.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Moot point. ????

Though I suppose while at some level this has constitutional founding, it must be remembered that this was a special-case referendum, offered to the people (as the Tories' manifesto had promised) by the prime minister of the country who specifically said the following:

'The prime minister said he "wanted to renegotiate the UK's relationship with the EU and then give people the "simple choice" between staying in under those new terms, or leaving the EU altogether." '

There was never any discussion regarding anything else or any specific caveat added to the offer of the referendum stipulating that ANY decision reached by the electorate would then need to be ratified and deliberated over by MPs in parliament. This was not part of the deal that was very publicly offered and ensured by the PM on more than one occasion. The disconnected political class simply didn't imagine that the public would actually return a Leave vote. Guess they should have ventured a little further than SW1, eh?

This is why, even with the large body of treacherous MPs trying their best through various acts of subterfuge & weaseling to repeal the vote, the Pro-Remain establishment dare not defy the electorate by doing so, as after such a black-and-white --binary-- referendum offer was presented to the people by Cameron, it would be political suicide to attempt to. Hence why both Lab and Con parties are 'committed to delivering Brexit'. ????

If those in power wanted to be more specific and detail EXACTLY what they would propose in the event of either Remaining or Leaving they could have done so. They didn't however, so any attempt to de-legitimise the result thereafter is totally illicit and anti-democratic. I have mentioned my own view on what would have been preferable once before - i.e.: electing a Euro-skeptic party with a mandate to leave the EU at a GE (if possible) etc. That is not what happened, and just because you and certain others don't like the outcome it doesn't for a second mean that the referendum is not legitimate. It is.

- https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21148282 - 

'David Cameron has said the British people must "have their say" on Europe as he pledged an in/out referendum if the Conservatives win the election.' - the Tories got elected, gave us the referendum and we, as a nation, had our say. End of story. Time to move on.

And then there are those guys who think that if they shovel enough words in one's direction, it will provide enough ballast for their rubbish argument to ride in on the tide. For one or two guys its their party piece routine????! ..........Parliament retains the right to run another referendum irrespective of what Cameron or Uncle Tom Cobbley and All may or may not have said. And that goes for the terms of Brexit. withdrawal as well.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

I would be very surprised if it was otherwise, seeing that the establishment and their lap dogs are so afraid of the decision taken by the British people.

Uber Nationalist twitch.

[nontabury]

4 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

And then there are those guys who think that if they shovel enough words in one's direction, it will provide enough ballast for their rubbish argument to ride in on the tide. For one or two guys its their party piece routine????! ..........Parliament retains the right to run another referendum irrespective of what Cameron or Uncle Tom Cobbley and All may or may not have said. And that goes for the terms of Brexit. withdrawal as well.

So what you’re suggesting, is that Parliament should ride roughshod over the will of the British people. Why not go the whole hogg, and ban the populace from voting, or even thinking.

[Patriot1066]

17 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

And then there are those guys who think that if they shovel enough words in one's direction, it will provide enough ballast for their rubbish argument to ride in on the tide. For one or two guys its their party piece routine????! ..........Parliament retains the right to run another referendum irrespective of what Cameron or Uncle Tom Cobbley and All may or may not have said. And that goes for the terms of Brexit. withdrawal as well.

Shenguwak 1 They Dare not!

[Grouse]

13 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Indeed he was able to nullify the poliically motivated charges laid against him.

 

A great self made man poud of his country Sir Banks and Sir Farrage?

No. He just avoided answering the questions 

 

Astonishing that the BBC gave this cynical oaf a mouthpiece.

 

No doubt parliament will have is head shortly.

[Grouse]

13 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

Only the French and UK have true military capability in Europe and spend a decent amount on it. Will they the French be prepared to subsidise  Germany whom have never got close to meeting heir agreed NATO commitment in terms of military spending ?

 

Actually, the EU will have war controlled by committee  rather than the generals so heywillget walked over.

Your ignorance is starting to aggravate me. Do us all a favor and read a little before posting nonsenses. Do you want Germany to spend 2% of 4 trillion USD per annum on defense of what? Get a grip!

 

8,000 LeopardII main battle tanks EVERY YEAR????

 

the USA have 1,600 tanks in total.

 

Maybe you would prefer Germany to build some nuclear weapons?

Edited November 6, 2018 by Grouse

[adammike]

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So what you’re suggesting, is that Parliament should ride roughshod over the will of the British people. Why not go the whole hogg, and ban the populace from voting, or even thinking.

What % of the population actually voted leave?

 What % of the electorate voted leave?

There was a vote and leave won but it is not the will of the British people,the Scots and the northern Irish voted to remain.Leave is what a minority of the British people voted for it's the majority  of the population who are  being ridden roughshod over by the brexiteers. 

 

 

[Jip99]

3 minutes ago, adammike said:

What % of the population actually voted leave?

 What % of the electorate voted leave?

There was a vote and leave won but it is not the will of the British people,the Scots and the northern Irish voted to remain.Leave is what a minority of the British people voted for it's the majority  of the population who are  being ridden roughshod over by the brexiteers. 

 

 

 

"Leave" is the majority of the electorate.

 

Job done, get over it.

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Your ignorance is starting to aggravate me. Do us all a favor and read a little before posting nonsenses. Do you want Germany to spend 2% of 3 trillion USD per annum on defense of what? Get a grip!

The Germans are still reneging on an agreement - with all that cash too - and they need to spend a fortune just to get all the existing aircraft in the Luftwaffe flying again. The EU wants a "defence force" but obviously the Germans are happy to let the French bear the bulk of military responsibility. How times have changed! 

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, adammike said:

What % of the population actually voted leave?

 What % of the electorate voted leave?

There was a vote and leave won but it is not the will of the British people,the Scots and the northern Irish voted to remain.Leave is what a minority of the British people voted for it's the majority  of the population who are  being ridden roughshod over by the brexiteers. 

 

 

Roughshod by the not terribly bright, the not doing so well, the ones who feel tertiary education is a waste of time, the monoglots. Who's going to complain? ????

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The Germans are still reneging on an agreement - with all that cash too - and they need to spend a fortune just to get all the existing aircraft in the Luftwaffe flying again. The EU wants a "defence force" but obviously the Germans are happy to let the French bear the bulk of military responsibility. How times have changed! 

Go on then Nauseus, what do you suggest the Germans spend 80 billion USD per year to improve defence of something or other?

 

Spend less and tell the USA to stay home would be better

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Your ignorance is starting to aggravate me. Do us all a favor and read a little before posting nonsenses. Do you want Germany to spend 2% of 4 trillion USD per annum on defense of what? Get a grip!

 

8,000 LeopardII main battle tanks EVERY YEAR????

 

the USA have 1,600 tanks in total.

 

Maybe you would prefer Germany to build some nuclear weapons?

8000 tanks? Yearly. Really? Well they must sell a lot!

 

They had 244 combat tanks, with only 105 operational in February this year.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/36e2cd40-0fdf-11e8-940e-08320fc2a277

[Grouse]

12 hours ago, kwilco said:

Looks like the democracy has changed its mind.....something they are entitled to do.

https://www.channel4.com/news/major-new-brexit-poll-shows-voters-swinging-towards-remain?fbclid=IwAR0t4QZaWLFVdvXIcYXCWqvr8AiLJK4I6U7hHYQMXIKxeS5y53je-HabJ6c

Thanks for that. I suspect that results reflects the current situation. Clearly, proceeding with the ridiculous Brexit idea now would not only be foolish but undemocratic.

[SheungWan]

46 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So what you’re suggesting, is that Parliament should ride roughshod over the will of the British people. Why not go the whole hogg, and ban the populace from voting, or even thinking.

'Er no. There is a fundamental difference between what Parliament should do (argument) and what Parliament is entitled to do (constitutional). Having said that, Parliament is/was required to enact the decision of the Referendum. Did they have to? No. But they would have been ill-advised not to. Note that the Hard Brexiteers wanted to bypass Parliament. Still, the terms of Brexit are constrained purely by the words on the Referendum. Not by what the PM may or may not have said prior to the Referendum vote.

[Grouse]

12 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Fake news from the Lefties TV Channel they only polled people online so all the people that don't have internet access were just ignored

I wouldn't bother asking anybody anything if they can not respond online. I assume the only people without internet access are Brexiters?

[adammike]

37 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

"Leave" is the majority of the electorate.

 

Job done, get over it.

Leave was 37 % of the electorate hardly the will of the people,leave won a vote by 52% to 48% again hardly the will of the people.

[vinny41]

   EU Conission funds Channel 4

The  Commission has decided to approve the new funding  arrangements  for
   the  independent  British  television station  Channel  4.  It  has  also
   approved  two  UK  schemes for supporting the  production  of  television
   programmes in two minority languages, Welsh and Gaelic.

 

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-91-632_en.htm

[soleddy]

Get over it. Losing the UK is the same as losing 19 small countries in terms of economics--no wonder Barnier and Junker are secretly *****ing themselves. As Thatcher knew, and largely halted--they wanted much more from the UK than thay wanted to give back. Some boffin worked out that we were giving them double (in terms not only of money, but also brains, help, unwanted stuff and all the rest of it. I just wish Nigel F would take up the reins again).

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by soleddy
close bracket

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Oh hello! Its the 'my brother-in-law' killer argument.

 

What comment are you reading SW? I'm not even attempting to make an argument of any kind, just dropping a little tid-bit (albeit totally off-topic) into a response about - boxing, after all. Going off topic is something you seem to do in nearly every post anyhow, usually in the form of a half-witted insult or condescending slur.

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Patriot1066]

2 hours ago, adammike said:

What % of the population actually voted leave?

 What % of the electorate voted leave?

There was a vote and leave won but it is not the will of the British people,the Scots and the northern Irish voted to remain.Leave is what a minority of the British people voted for it's the majority  of the population who are  being ridden roughshod over by the brexiteers. 

 

 

I would read some publications on how elections take place.

 

it was the largest ever turn out for any UK vote EVER. If people can’t get off their backsides they can’t expect to vote can they?

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

I wouldn't bother asking anybody anything if they can not respond online. I assume the only people without internet access are Brexiters?

No we tend to use two cans with a tight piece of string between to communicate works great!

[Patriot1066]

14 minutes ago, soleddy said:

Get over it. Losing the UK is the same as losing 19 small countries in terms of economics--no wonder Barnier and Junker are secretly *****ing themselves. As Thatcher knew, and largely halted--they wanted much more from the UK than thay wanted to give back. Some boffin worked out that we were giving them double (in terms not only of money, but also brains, help, unwanted stuff and all the rest of it. I just wish Nigel F would take up the reins again).

 

 

So very true????

[Patriot1066]

14 minutes ago, soleddy said:

Get over it. Losing the UK is the same as losing 19 small countries in terms of economics--no wonder Barnier and Junker are secretly *****ing themselves. As Thatcher knew, and largely halted--they wanted much more from the UK than thay wanted to give back. Some boffin worked out that we were giving them double (in terms not only of money, but also brains, help, unwanted stuff and all the rest of it. I just wish Nigel F would take up the reins again).

 

 

Yes it is !

[SheungWan]

Just now, Patriot1066 said:

No we tend to use two cans with a tight piece of string between to communicate works great!

Still got the old Nokia then.

[Patriot1066]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Go on then Nauseus, what do you suggest the Germans spend 80 billion USD per year to improve defence of something or other?

 

Spend less and tell the USA to stay home would be better

The Germans are crafty they lost the war but won the peace.

 

But only spend 1% of their GDP on defence. They agreed to spend 2 just like us.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

'Er no. There is a fundamental difference between what Parliament should do (argument) and what Parliament is entitled to do (constitutional). Having said that, Parliament is/was required to enact the decision of the Referendum. Did they have to? No. But they would have been ill-advised not to. Note that the Hard Brexiteers wanted to bypass Parliament. Still, the terms of Brexit are constrained purely by the words on the Referendum. Not by what the PM may or may not have said prior to the Referendum vote.

No one is denying their 'constitutional right' to, but you said it yourself in the above post - they're required to deliver on our vote. If they do not make good on promises made in public - to the public, then they would be responsible for some disastrous consequences. Why is that I wonder? Democratic vote and promises made by the top politicians in the land have anything to do with it? You can waffle on all you want about the ifs and buts and 'we're entitled to another one cos we lost' rubbish, but the facts remain the same no matter how much sulking is done or how many irrelevant points are made. 

 

If the current government decides to renege on the guarantees made by the PM of the previous one, then they would be proving to the already disillusioned electorate that democracy in the UK is merely a sham.

Edited November 6, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Patriot1066]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Still got the old Nokia then.

Yep great phone it has a full 30 minutes battery if you don’t call anyone or email or it runs out Dam!

[Patriot1066]

2 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

No one is denying their 'constitutional right' to, but you said it yourself in the above post - they're required to deliver on our vote. If they do not make good on promises made in public - to the public, then they would be responsible for some disastrous consequences. Why is that I wonder? Democratic vote and promises made by the top politicians in the land have anything to do with it? You can waffle on all you want about the ifs and buts and 'we're entitled to another one cos we lost', but the facts remain the same no matter how much sulking is done or how many irrelevant points are made. 

 

If the government decides to renege on the guarantees made by the PM of the previous Tory government, then they would be proving to the already disillusioned electorate that democracy in the UK is merely a sham.

Yep a sham they offered never thinking we would accept. 

 

They will I’ll all be worrying about their gravy train coming to an end.