UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[vogie]

20 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

That is not what you asked for. You were referring to the Alistair Burt comment, and complaining I had no link ... even though I told you where to find it.

 

As for the 4 MPs, I already answered that ... go back and find it. 

There is no way I will go back looking for conjecture. 

[vinny41]

60% Of Italians Think EU Is Bad For Italy

As the 27 EU members who aren't the UK brace for the inevitable fallout for what increasingly looks to be a bumpy Brexit, one shocking poll revealed that 60% of Italians feel that their country has been mistreated by the European Union. If accurate, that's several percentage points higher than the percentage of Britons who voted to leave the EU back in 2016.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-16/shocking-poll-shows-60-italians-think-eu-bad-italy

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, rixalex said:

The British people didn't get us into any mess. They were just given a binary choice and made the decision the way they did.

It's all on the politicians who have messed things up, by taking a half hearted, let's-hope-we-can-figure-a-way-out-of-actually-going-through-with-this approach, starting by appointing a leader who was a remainer. Since then it's been 10% of the Commons genuinely trying to row towards exiting the EU, with the other 85% doing a lot of flapping about pretending to try to enact the will of the people, but blatantly doing the opposite. The final 5% are the likes of the Soubrys who have actively and openly being trying to stop it. With all that movement against it, is it any wonder Brexit is in the state it's in?

And you blame it on the people, and think the people should vote again?! For what purpose? You've already stated the technical nonsense about the referendum being advisory. Why not just be done with it and say that staying in the EU comes before democracy. Then we can forget about the 2016 referendum, we can forget about having another, in case it doesn't go your way again, and we can just get on with the country being run by the people who think they know best. Who really needs elections after all.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

General Prayuth would agree with you in making the People Happy Again.

[AlexRich]

12 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Burt's position is well known - nothing new about it. You as a remainer will undoubtedy take his position. 

 

At the moment Corbyn is the leader of the Labour party, not McDonnell or Momentum. He has repeatedly said there will not be a 2nd referendum, as has May. Last week he also ruled out revoking A50, again, as I posted here. By the way, McDonnell and Momentum have been singing the same song for a long time, not just for the last few days. Official Labour and Tory policy is no second referendum, and honouring the referendum result. And it's worth pointing out that Labour are not the governing party, and Tories will never ally with Labour in meaningful numbers over this.

 

By the way, I am not a leaver or a remainer. I'm just someone who supports democracy. We had a referendum, the terms of which were accepted by everyone.

 

I read a broad cross-section of the Brexit press, representing all major viewpoints, and I post many links here from reliable sources. My posts are ovewhelmingly aimed at providing information, not speculation. Have a good evening.

 

Well we will soon see how good your grasp of this is. No deal will never get through Parliament. And Corbyn does not have the whip hand over his MPs, he rebelled against his government’s position many times as an MP. He won’t stop them. 

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

60% Of Italians Think EU Is Bad For Italy

As the 27 EU members who aren't the UK brace for the inevitable fallout for what increasingly looks to be a bumpy Brexit, one shocking poll revealed that 60% of Italians feel that their country has been mistreated by the European Union. If accurate, that's several percentage points higher than the percentage of Britons who voted to leave the EU back in 2016.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-16/shocking-poll-shows-60-italians-think-eu-bad-italy

Greece thought the same thing, but didn’t leave.

[vinny41]

8 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

 

Does this mean the EU will allow a vote every 5 years for all eu countries to remain or leave after all you are saying "because a new vote is democratic"

[billd766]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

Very true, we were mislead,many would say conned into voting to join a common trading union in 1975. After which as you well know, the establishment has since deceitfully transformed into the present day political so called E.u. However the thinking people,have woken up to the reality of this monstrosity. And we will never accept it.

I know now that I was conned back in 1975 and I have known for a few years but it wasn't until 2016 that I was given the opportunity to reverse my vote, which I did.

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

Does this mean the EU will allow a vote every 5 years for all eu countries to remain or leave after all you are saying "because a new vote is democratic"

“will allow”? The EU does allow that already. 

[AlexRich]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I know now that I was conned back in 1975 and I have known for a few years but it wasn't until 2016 that I was given the opportunity to reverse my vote, which I did.

 

 

A classic case of two wrongs not making a right.

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Greece thought the same thing, but didn’t leave.

The people of Greece were not ask in a vote to Remain or Leave the EU

Brexit: Governments have ignored referendums about the EU before

 

From Ireland to Greece, countries have decided to completely ignore the ‘will of the people’, asked them to think again or think about something only slightly different

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-ignore-lisbon-treaty-nice-treaty-ireland-greece-france-netherlands-a7105261.html

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

“will allow”? The EU does allow that already. 

NO it doesn't provide a link where the EU allows each country to have a remain or leave vote every 5 years

[billd766]

1 hour ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Speak for yourself your we doesn't include me and millions of others - if you want to make yourself poorer why not chuck your own money down the drain not that of others. 

 

That should also apply to the Remainers as well. Are you speaking for all of them too?

[JAG]

59 minutes ago, damascase said:

This has been posted before - the guy hasn’t a clue about how the EU works and doesn’t seem to know much about trade and tariffs. Quite unlike that former Finnish politician.

I've seen it on several websites/facebook posts. I've read it several times and just reread it very carefully.

 

I don't see anything in it that actually cannot be done if the UK were to wish to do so. What it would do, if Mr. Abbot's suggestions were followed, would be to put the EU fairly and squarely in the frame for deciding whether to deal fairly or honestly with the United Kingdom, or whether to attempt to bully and/or blackmail the United Kingdom to cause deliberate and unnecessary damage. Damage which would extend across the EU.

 

The trouble is bullying involves the threat of inflicting painful damage to force someone to follow the path which the bully wishes, and blackmail only works if the person blackmailed are afraid of the blackmailer...

Edited November 18, 2018 by JAG

[vinny41]

 

24 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I know now that I was conned back in 1975 and I have known for a few years but it wasn't until 2016 that I was given the opportunity to reverse my vote, which I did.

 

 

It would have been interesting in 1975 if the remain campaign stated  by voting for remain you will be joining a club similar to joining a 

Timeshare In Perpetuity contract

Edited November 18, 2018 by vinny41

[vinny41]

31 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

A classic case of two wrongs not making a right.

If thats the case I can see no reason why people campaigning wouldn't support a 2nd referendum using a super majority such as 80/20 and that only allows 2 options on the voting paper  

[evadgib]

46 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Does this mean the EU will allow a vote every 5 years for all eu countries to remain or leave after all you are saying "because a new vote is democratic"

If they were accountable to the european electorate every 5 years we probably wouldn't have told them to poke it.

[bomber]

56 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

60% Of Italians Think EU Is Bad For Italy

As the 27 EU members who aren't the UK brace for the inevitable fallout for what increasingly looks to be a bumpy Brexit, one shocking poll revealed that 60% of Italians feel that their country has been mistreated by the European Union. If accurate, that's several percentage points higher than the percentage of Britons who voted to leave the EU back in 2016.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-16/shocking-poll-shows-60-italians-think-eu-bad-italy

many will say its bad in a poll,voting on the day when reality sinks in,is a different matter altogether,how anyone with half a brain would want the mess the UK is in beggars belief,even tho Italy has less jobs to lose as its not a major financial centre and isnt reliant on japanese/german car factories and doesnt have an Irish nuisance.they would have a chance of leaving and going OK,the UK has no hope

[vinny41]

The madman of Brussels

 

[AlexRich]

16 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

If thats the case I can see no reason why people campaigning wouldn't support a 2nd referendum using a super majority such as 80/20 and that only allows 2 options on the voting paper  

 

The unpalatable truth is the Brexit supporters are terrified at the prospect of a second referendum, and for good reason. It will only happen, in my view, if the country is staring at a “no deal” scenario. If May’s deal, or some other deal, is accepted by the UK and EU it will not arise. But if it does arise it will be a mirror of the last one, with no super majority. 

[AlexRich]

6 minutes ago, bomber said:

many will say its bad in a poll,voting on the day when reality sinks in,is a different matter altogether,how anyone with half a brain would want the mess the UK is in beggars belief,even tho Italy has less jobs to lose as its not a major financial centre and isnt reliant on japanese/german car factories and doesnt have an Irish nuisance.they would have a chance of leaving and going OK,the UK has no hope

There would be many problems for Italy. Debt in Euro and having to pay back with a deeply discounted Lira. It would be a disaster for them on a scale far worse than the UK. 

[kwilco]

Brexiteers are notoriously bad at history... even recent..... or just good at ignoring it??

Also some still seem to think they all voted for the same Brexit or the one in the referendum s

Anyway, here's a list of remarks that Brexit leaders have come up with over the last couple of years........ how things have changed!!!!

https://www.indy100.com/article/brexit-deal-lates-quotes-liam-fox-theresa-may-nigel-farage-eu-michael-gove-8636801?fbclid=IwAR1zY5htFtWjxF-30Q0mX0HW6bcAOibqavqnDhQz_5otkEUh3nPbyOi5V10

[vinny41]

Just now, AlexRich said:

 

The unpalatable truth is the Brexit supporters are terrified at the prospect of a second referendum, and for good reason. It will only happen, in my view, if the country is staring at a “no deal” scenario. If May’s deal, or some other deal, is accepted by the UK and EU it will not arise. But if it does arise it will be a mirror of the last one, with no super majority. 

But we all know the remainers were unhappy with the last referendum complaints about this this and this so going forward any new referendum should be legally binding,  only 2 options on the voting paper, super majority such as 80%/20%  of the total number of  electoral votes if remainers can't accept any of the above it would appear its them that are terrified at the prospect of a 2nd referendum on this basis , I sure most leave voters would accept such a referendum on the above basis so why not remainers

[damascase]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

NO it doesn't provide a link where the EU allows each country to have a remain or leave vote every 5 years

What absolute nonsense! Member States do not need the EU’s approval and can organize a vote any day of the week. Keep spreading the lies, guys!

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, damascase said:

What absolute nonsense! Member States do not need the EU’s approval and can organize a vote any day of the week. Keep spreading the lies, guys!

There nothing stopping the EU passing a law that states " Because we want to be seen as a democratic organization we require all member countries to have a remain in the eu/ leave the eu vote every 5 years

 

[tomacht8]

Here a little EU Leaving Checklist.
What you want?


- Free movement of goods, persons, services and capital (the four so-called "fundamental freedoms") - including the free movement of EU citizens in their choice of place of residence and employment
(Yes? / No?)

- Definition of minimum democratic standards for EU states and establishment of fundamental rights, eg. In the "Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union", including children, labor and data protection rights (Yes? / No?)

- Regulation of the competition, which, for example, it has reduced the number of roaming charges within the EU by more than 80% since 2007 (Yes? / No?)

- EU structural assistance to align structurally and economically weaker regions with the EU average or to encourage innovation (Yes? / No?)

- Freedom of travel without boarder controls within the EU (Yes? / No?)

- Europe-wide cooperation of the judicial and police authorities on the fight against crime
like the European Police Office EUROPOL and the European Judicial and Customs Authority EURJUST
(Yes? / No?)

- Europe-wide mutual recognition of professional diplomas, school certificates and training certificates (Yes? / No?)

- Studying in other European countries through Erasmus programs (more than 2.5 million students since 1987) (Yes? / No?)

- Promotion of environmental protection eg by renewable energy or guidelines for water and waste, nature conservation, flora & fauna, end-of-life car recycling or air quality.
(Yes? / No?)

- Comprehensive consumer protection rules with uniform minimum standards for quality, safety and health including labeling of genetically modified food, compatibility of cosmetics or safety of children's toys
(Yes? / No?)

- Cooperation between EU Member States in the field of the protection of the external borders, eg. FRONTEX (Yes? / No?)

- Membership in the surveillance system EURATOM (Yes? / No?)

- Membership in the Galileo satellite navigation project (Yes? / No?)

- Membership in the central authorization procedure for medicines for the entire EU economic area, eg EMA (Yes? / No?)

- Membership in EUROCONTROL. The European Union (in cooperation with Norway and Switzerland) is currently developing the "Single European Sky" project. (Yes? / No?)


- Membership of EU Research Framework Programs, eg Horizon 2020 (2014-2020)
with € 70.2bn budget (Yes? / No?)

- Pan-European Banking Control (Yes? / No?)

- The euro as a single currency within the eurozone (Yes? / No?)

- Cooperation in Securing peace in Europe (Yes? / No?)
 

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

There nothing stopping the EU passing a law that states " Because we want to be seen as a democratic organization we require all member countries to have a remain in the eu/ leave the eu vote every 5 years

 

Why stop with the EU? How about the UK , the US or any country with minorities that might want independence.

 What could go wrong with that?

[damascase]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

There nothing stopping the EU passing a law that states " Because we want to be seen as a democratic organization we require all member countries to have a remain in the eu/ leave the eu vote every 5 years

 

You still do not know - or do want to know - how the EU works? 

Well, the EU is a democratic organisation, so if the elected goverments of its Members would want such a law, nothing is going to stop them.

[AlexRich]

25 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

But we all know the remainers were unhappy with the last referendum complaints about this this and this so going forward any new referendum should be legally binding,  only 2 options on the voting paper, super majority such as 80%/20%  of the total number of  electoral votes if remainers can't accept any of the above it would appear its them that are terrified at the prospect of a 2nd referendum on this basis , I sure most leave voters would accept such a referendum on the above basis so why not remainers

 

It terrifies you, doesn’t it? The prospect of a second vote. That’s why you indulge in the above fantasy.

[Johnyo]

 

Well than Britain can trade cars and aircraft with countries that want to trade with them.

 

Europe is pretty much a developed market, not a growth market. Lowering domestic costs could make Britain more competitive in growth markets, rather than fighting with the other EU members over market share.

 

The CEO of the company I worked for had a big sales strategy meeting. He went over Asia, NA, SA, AU, ME etc.

 

At the end of the meeting someone asked “What about Europe?”

 

The CEO answered: “Europe? That’s where we refuel the plane on the way to China.”

 

There it’s like the US, the market is pretty well developed.

 

The one person I have been watching carefully since the Referendum vote has been Liam Fox and it is conspicuous that he has laid his cards on the table by supporting May’s withdrawal deal and not his fellow hard Brexiters.

 

It gives the impression the trade secretary tasked with creating favourable new free trade deals, and which he stated were ‘the easiest thing in the world to arrange’, has found them to not exist. It certainly hasn’t been the case with the EU as he insisted it would.

 

Over the past two years he would have been shouting his success at every opportunity about the new deals he has drummed up elsewhere had they existed. The fact that he is not pushing for May to follow a hard Brexit is the key and his silence is deafening.

 

People really should analyse ALL the information coming out regarding our future economic situation and not simply bury their heads in the sand by following the two-issue ideology constantly promoted by the Brexiters (controlling immigration and taking back control).

 

Project Fear is turning into Project Reality with each passing day.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[metisdead]

A post using a foreign language has been removed.