UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[melvinmelvin]

guys,

 

guess robust exchange of views and  high temp is ok

won't say keep it civil - 'cause I don't really care re that

 

but for fks sake please do not piss off the moderators to the extent that this thread will be closed

 

if so, I'll wake up my Thai kokos and send them after you . . . .

 

 

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

45 minutes ago, billd766 said:

It will take years to build and the financial cost to the EU taxpayers will be enormous.

 

Why don't they want to persevere with an existing NATO, which does work and could work better still if the finances were kept up to date?

 

IMHO it is due to the dislike of the USA yet without the USA and the UK many years ago there would be no EU.

 

From what I saw on the video Nigel Farage was trying to explain to Nick Clegg that the EU was determined to build an EU military force and Nick Clegg flat out denied it.

 

Several years later Nigel Farage has been proven correct and Nick Clegg totally wrong.

 

Now where will the EU get the men and women power from to build this military force? Will they simply dismantle all of their forces committed to NATO or start from scratch?

 

Spot on Bill and well articulated! 

 

'Nigel Farage was trying to explain to Nick Clegg that the EU was determined to build an EU military force and Nick Clegg flat out denied it'.

 

Just one of the many things that were steadfastly denied, with those who raised the point being jeered, sneered at & denigrated for the very mention. I remember in the live televised debate, Clegg (the prat) flat out denying it and accusing Nige of being both a loon and a subversive for the mere suggestion. Not even 3 years later and here we are with Tusk, Juncker and Merkel all publicly lauding the upcoming policy. Typical - duplicitous worms, the lot.

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Excellent stuff Sir..I think May's shambolic deal will be torn to pieces and binned by Parliament..she will resign..new PM who will be a Brexiteer..Brussels told to go forth and multiply and whistle for the 39 big ones..then WTO here we go

Dead duck. Hard Brexiteers don't have the numbers.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

doubt that the parliament will have the guts to do that

my guess is that the deal will be passed with some amendments that are of no consequence

That would be my best guess too ☹️.

[dick dasterdly]

19 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Dead duck. Hard Brexiteers don't have the numbers.

I agree.

 

Genuine brexiteer MPs don't have the numbers, and the rest are just looking for a way to appease the electorate and retain their seats.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree.

 

Genuine brexiteer MPs don't have the numbers, and the rest are just looking for a way to appease the electorate and retain their seats.

To be fair they don't need to be 'Hard Brexiteers' aka: 'Democrats with a backbone', they simply need to be opposed to this rubbish deal. 90+ Tory MPs have publicly asserted this claim, who knows how many Lab, DUP and independents etc. will feel the same? Both major parties went into the last GE with the manifesto claims that we would leave the CU/SM and ECJ jurisdiction if they were elected. Those who vote FOR this deal in parliament, particularly Tory MPs, should be stripped of their seats.

 

'looking for a way to appease the electorate and retain their seats.' - This is the worry. One that I share.  

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Grouse]

12 hours ago, Basil B said:

Did we not have a referendum a few years ago?

2011

Sorry for the minority who voted like I did, but the others who voted against and those that did not vote deserve all the ills that the corrupt system brings...

I think we are all well aware that people frequently vote without really understanding the ramifications of what they are voting for.

[dick dasterdly]

3 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

To be fair they don't need to be 'Hard Brexiteers' aka: 'Democrats with a backbone', they simply need to be opposed to this rubbish deal. 90+ Tory MPs have publicly asserted this claim, who knows how many Lab, DUP and independents etc. will feel the same? Both major parties went into the last GE with the manifesto claims that we would leave the CU/SM and ECJ jurisdiction if they were elected. Those who vote FOR this deal in parliament, particularly Tory MPs, should be stripped of their seats.

 

'looking for a way to appease the electorate and retain their seats.' - This is the worry. One that I share.  

 

"To be fair they don't need to be 'Hard Brexiteers'"

 

Which is why I ignored SheungWan's 'hard brexiteers' comment re. MPs, and replaced it with 'genuine brexiteers' in my post.

 

Having said this, I agree with your post - except any MP that votes for this 'deal' (????) should be stripped of their seats IMO!

 

It's the worst of all possible worlds!

Edited November 26, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

I think he means (but don't quote me) that you can be smugly sanctimonious and intollerant to the opinions of others. ????????????

I do try to be ????

[talahtnut]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

What utter tripe.

 

You really can not believe in altruism; how sad for you

 

I'm 64. Nothing really matters to me personally but I do care about my greater family and the country where I was born and still have roots. Democracy only works if there is equality in education and access to information. It clearly would not work in the U.K. Which is why we have representative parliamentary democracy. The fact that you do not understand that after all this time tends to prove my point. Who did you vote for in the last election? CON or LAB? Have they been voting Brexit or Remain. That you had s vote is your democratic right. No more, no less.

Make no mistake, being educated does not guarantee

intelligence.

My old form master told me to remember that, 'its not only

cream that floats to the top'.

 

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

To be fair they don't need to be 'Hard Brexiteers' aka: 'Democrats with a backbone', they simply need to be opposed to this rubbish deal. 90+ Tory MPs have publicly asserted this claim, who knows how many Lab, DUP and independents etc. will feel the same? Both major parties went into the last GE with the manifesto claims that we would leave the CU/SM and ECJ jurisdiction if they were elected. Those who vote FOR this deal in parliament, particularly Tory MPs, should be stripped of their seats.

 

'looking for a way to appease the electorate and retain their seats.' - This is the worry. One that I share.  

 

right, fair enough

 

but you should keep in mind that for the past 3 years or so the UK public (including MPs) have been

drowned in all the horrible scenarios and consequences that will surface if UK leaves, the dungeons are nigh!

this kind of marketing has an effect - also on MPs

 

agree that the deal is crappy, in my view largely parliaments own fault

 

now, shooting down the deal and go for hard Brexit does not have the required traction in Westminster,

me thinks

 

ditching deal AND TM and renegotiate? time is getting short

ain't many hours left between now and Brexit

 

of course, now TM is shouting every 3 minutes that re-negos is a big no no, cannot be done

many, including MPs will tend to believe her

I disagree with that

think the door for further neg. is ajar

 

EU does not want a hard crash out Brexit

(several reasons for that)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

Everything i have stated is true as you yourself have just confirmed. You and your family HAVE personally benefited from the EU. How much of a role that personal benefit plays in your vociferous defence of the EU?....well, people will no doubt decide for themselves. It could just be a complete coincidence that you, tebee and adam - three of the most vocal advocates of the EU here - happen to support something that is beneficial to yourselves.

Regarding ill manners, coming from you, that really takes the biscuit. If Kwilco, or whatever his name is (he says QED a lot), has finished looking at himself, borrow his mirror.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Are you the spokesperson for your little group of increasingly disappointed Brexiters?

 

I have benefitted from the U.K. Being a member of the EU. Do you know what a tense is? Well  "have benefitted" is the past participle

 

My attitude now is based on real experience and also contrasting experience (the USA). I would like others to have the same opportunities that I had as a young family man. Rather altruistic wouldn't you say?

 

But, no. You wish to accuse me of being selfish. You are quite wrong.

 

However, I forgive you. It must be awful for you.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Grouse
Change American spelling

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

38 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"To be fair they don't need to be 'Hard Brexiteers'"

 

Which is why I ignored SheungWan's 'hard brexiteers' comment re. MPs, and replaced it with 'genuine brexiteers' in my post.

 

Having said this, I agree with your post - except any MP that votes for this 'deal' (????) should be stripped of their seats IMO!

 

It's the worst of all possible worlds!

Fair enough yes. I know you're not in league with SW, and you make the point clear. But I'm not sure even genuine Brexiteers are necessarily the only ones who will be voting against this codswallop, the SNP hate it - look at Nicola Sturgeon's remarks about it, and then there's gotta be a fair few Labour MPs who can be thrown in there too, lets just hope they don't go party-political, but instead vote with their hearts and try to show a bit of responsibility for a change. Let's see.

I agree with you in any case - ANYONE, irrespective of their political party, who votes for this should be punished as a traitorous anti-democrat, but particularly Labs and Cons (Tories above all given that they won the GE) should be stripped of their seats, in the incidence of support for this deal...that should be a given.

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Are you the spokesperson for your little group of increasingly disappointed Brexiters*?

 

I have benefited from the U.K. Being a member of the EU. Do you know what a tense is? We'll "have" is past perfect 

 

My attitude now is based on real experience and also contrasting experience (the USA). I would like others to have the same opportunities that I had as a young family man. Rather altruistic wouldn't you say?

 

But, no. You wish to accuse me of being selfish. You are quite wrong.

 

However, I forgive you. It must be awful for you.

*Ahem....We seem to outnumber your lot on here...and then there's the 52% - 48% figure that is continually overlooked, by some. The disappointed bit I shan't argue with though. ????

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

*Ahem....We seem to outnumber your lot on here...and then there's the 52% - 48% figure that is continually overlooked, by some. ????

True, but better to ignore the poster's frequent little rants - and posts based on his self-perceived superiority over pretty much everyone else..... ????.

Edited November 26, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Make no mistake, being educated does not guarantee

intelligence.

My old form master told me to remember that, 'its not only

cream that floats to the top'.

 

Why do you keep bringing up intelligence?

 

Your form master was correct; it's a pity that you misunderstood his point!

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

32 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

but you should keep in mind that for the past 3 years or so the UK public (including MPs) have been

drowned in all the horrible scenarios and consequences that will surface if UK leaves, the dungeons are nigh!

this kind of marketing has an effect - also on MPs

 

True enough, yes. Project Fear has done its utmost to the put the frightenners on the whole populous, regardless of position or politics. However, MPs are, sadly, paid up stooges for the most part, it seems, and of course can benefit from the EU more than nearly anyone else in society, be they Tory or Labour. 

 

The ones with a backbone, integrity and morals have remembered their duty and the fact that (whether Cons or Lab) their party stood on a manifesto at the last GE that guaranteed the public an exit from the CU/SM and jurisdiction of the ECJ. This is one promise the scoundrels must NOT be allowed to weasel their way out of.

 

32 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

think the door for further neg. is ajar

 

EU does not want a hard crash out Brexit

Perhaps - IF we had a headstrong Brexit voter in power.

 

And, no of course the EU doesn't want us and our juicy annual contributions gone - plus we're the epicentre of their international markets for a great many goods. It's simply commerce 101 - they NEED us, yet, as per usual, the Remoaner capitulation camp either fail to comprehend or just willfully misunderstand this fact. As Iain Duncan Smith said yesterday on LBC, quite rightly:

 

'the UK government showed their hand way to early and have simply given the EU everything they have asked for' . We had a great bargaining position that has been squandered. The best, and most sensible route now is to simply leave on WTO terms. Show the EC who's in control here and then watch what happens.

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, talahtnut said:

Like dictators leading the UK to a dystopian 2nd class colony.

There is a world of friends to be made beyond Brussels.

There is an old saying, Good fences make good neighbours.

 

How very American of you. It's a pity you misunderstand Frost's point!

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mending_Wall

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2010/05/sarah-palin-misinterprets-robert-frost/57248/

 

You clearly learnt nothing from our European friends. How sad.

 

If you are reduced to quoting Americans, please consider "Tear down that wall, Mr Gorbechov!"

Edited November 26, 2018 by Grouse

[Stupooey]

4 hours ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-46336137/brexit-i-m-never-changing-my-mind-says-juncker

 

Rip the 'draft deal' up in front of them, do an about turn and walk out the door. NO DEAL. Pay them nothing more, not a penny. See what really happens next. No conjecture, no 'projections', just brass tax. 

 

This flabby, pompous alcoholic and his goons can go swivel. This should be our new Brexit policy. Grow some balls, restore some confidence and take whatever short-term economic hit on the chin. Far better that than be forever more the lap-dog of decadent, autocratic turds like Juncker et al and lose the last remaining shreds of respect from our Commonwealth cousins and beyond. Pathetic state of affairs. Whatever happened to the confident, self-assured nation that swaggered...we never cowered in front of little Luxembourg limp-di**s. It was after all, the UK that did more than any other European nation to set the continent free from home-grown tyranny and now, 75 years on, we submit to it? ????

From lone warrior hero to....this! How have we been reduced to taking orders from the likes of JCJ?? Embarrassing doesn't begin to cover it. I fear the same, once proud and strong nation, is now largely made up of weak-kneed, PC, far left Remoaners - the government clearly is.

 

A sad day for sure. Let's just hope the HoC grow a spine.

 

 

 

The 'proud and strong' nation you refer to probably hasn't existed since before WW1. Sure, we have had our moments since, notably when rallied by the flabby, pompous alcoholic Winston Churchill, but by the time of Suez all the swagger had gone.

Older people look back nostalgically at the 1960s, but the superficial gloss of music, art and fashion hid the depressing economic underbelly: the Summer of Love soon became the Winter of Devaluation. Thatcher may have quelled the Union power that underpinned many of the problems, but at the cost of decimating the UK's manufacturing base, making it even more difficult to survive outside the EU.

'No deal' will cause a great many people a great deal of hardship, the only questions are how many and for how long. Is this what people voted for in 2016? More importantly, is this what the people of 2019 really want? Time for the HoC to grow a spine and ditch the whole project.

 

[mogandave]

Make no mistake, being educated does not guarantee
intelligence.
My old form master told me to remember that, 'its not only
cream that floats to the top'.
 

Particularly with respect to people that feel the need to go on about their how great their education was...

[talahtnut]

52 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I do try to be ????

We know you are trying, but it would boring without you,

We all love you really, partly because you are so easy to

heat up.

 

[melvinmelvin]

18 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

True enough, yes. Project Fear has done its utmost to the put the frightenners on the whole populous, regardless of position or politics. However, MPs are, sadly, paid up stooges for the most part, it seems, and of course can benefit from the EU more than nearly anyone else in society, be they Tory or Labour. 

 

The ones with a backbone, integrity and morals have remembered their duty and the fact that (whether Cons or Lab) their party stood on a manifesto at the last GE that guaranteed the public an exit from the CU/SM and jurisdiction of the ECJ. This is one promise the scoundrels must NOT be allowed to weasel their way out of.

 

Perhaps - IF we had a headstrong Brexit voter in power.

 

And, no of course the EU doesn't want us and our juicy annual contributions gone - plus we're the epicentre of their international markets for a great many goods. It's simply commerce 101 - they NEED us, yet, as per usual, the Remoaner capitulation camp either fail to comprehend or just willfully misunderstand this fact. As Iain Duncan Smith said yesterday on LBC, quite rightly:

 

'the UK government showed their hand way to early and have simply given the EU everything they have asked for' . We had a great bargaining position that has been squandered. The best, and most sensible route now is to simply leave on WTO terms. Show the EC who's in control here and then watch what happens.

 

right, but C B - look at this

 

where do you find Brexiteers (hard or soft) at heart:

 

some, quite a few I think - within labour

a whole bunch within tory

some in SNP

and I guess a few in DUP

LibDem, yes, some

green? dunno - just 1 MP?

 

can they be activated? think step 1 must be to replace TM

 

now,

Tory is obviously not too unhappy with the deal

the 1922 team is not overly busy with opening letters

they have plenty of time left for afternoon Belhavens in Westminster

 

then, you have parliament and motion of no conf

what does parliament say? zilch

what does parliament do? zilch

 

double zilch points towards deal being accepted

 

if Brexiteers want to get on top of this they must do something, not later but NOW

 

what does blowjob do? zilch

what does Farage do? zilch

what does retromug do? zilch

what does Raab do? zilch

what does dodgy davies do? zilch

 

you know, when these guys are interviewed by msm,

they say that deal is crap TM is crap

but that does not move foggy islands in any direction

they must DO

 

 

[rixalex]

Are you the spokesperson for your little group of increasingly disappointed Brexiters?
 
I have benefitted from the U.K. Being a member of the EU. Do you know what a tense is? Well  "have benefitted" is the past participle
 
My attitude now is based on real experience and also contrasting experience (the USA). I would like others to have the same opportunities that I had as a young family man. Rather altruistic wouldn't you say?
 
But, no. You wish to accuse me of being selfish. You are quite wrong.
 
However, I forgive you. It must be awful for you.

Firstly, regarding the benefits of being in the EU no longer being of concern to you, from all you've stated about your circumstance, I don't think that's true, is it.

Secondly, regarding your "altruistic dreams" for others, what percentage of people living in the Britain actually WANT to do what you have done? I agree, it's great for those who DO want to live in the EU (outside of Britain), but we're talking about a couple of a percent of the population, and for the sake of them, and you, and your family, and your sister, the other 98% or so of people living in Britain are paying a certain cost for you to enjoy your dream. So yes, it's selfish.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

42 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

 

The 'proud and strong' nation you refer to probably hasn't existed since before WW1. Sure, we have had our moments since, notably when rallied by the flabby, pompous alcoholic Winston Churchill, but by the time of Suez all the swagger had gone.

Older people look back nostalgically at the 1960s, but the superficial gloss of music, art and fashion hid the depressing economic underbelly: the Summer of Love soon became the Winter of Devaluation. Thatcher may have quelled the Union power that underpinned many of the problems, but at the cost of decimating the UK's manufacturing base, making it even more difficult to survive outside the EU.

'No deal' will cause a great many people a great deal of hardship, the only questions are how many and for how long. Is this what people voted for in 2016? More importantly, is this what the people of 2019 really want? Time for the HoC to grow a spine and ditch the whole project.

 

You might be shocked to learn, that I don't entirely disagree with you. 

I would agree that by WWII the swagger had definitely gone, and the power and strength had been bled out of the UK by two devastating world wars in quick succession. The following tumultuous decades of political ruptions, economic stagnation and loss of Empire weakened the UK in a big way too. Neither do I long for a bygone age - in reality, to romanticise the past is a little naive, and, ultimately fruitless - but to recognise and applaud past strengths and morals that are lacking from our modern world is not the same thing.

Churchill may have been a flabby, somewhat pompous alcy, but he stood for, personified even, a great many things that are in complete contrast with what the EU increasingly represents. I'm sure rabid anti-imperialist, anti-British types would cite his dubious views on imperial influence and race etc., but his importance shouldn't be underestimated nor his resolve undervalued, he - along with those whom he inspired - won us our liberty and secured our independence from a continental tyranny, if he hadn't have been there to do that, the EU wouldn't be here today - this is the great irony, as others have correctly opined in earlier comments.

 

Where I (obviously) totally disagree with you is that the possible gains of leaving far outweigh the blatant negatives of remaining. Not least of which is our sovereignty and the nation's reputation. To be bossed about by an unelected flabby, pompous alcoholic bureaucrat like Juncker from his ivory tower in Brussels, is simply unacceptable. If this kind of supercilious twerp is 'the future of Europe' then perhaps recalling and reinvigorating characteristics of the past isn't such a bad idea?  Pride in our nation, pride in ourselves and confidence in our ability are what is so sorely needed. Long term opportunity, civic unity and proper sovereignty is ALWAYS preferable, whats more - it's our hard-won right as a nation. The chance to draw on some of that (perhaps dying) British pluck and courage, in order to show these federalist bullies where to get off, is just the icing on the cake, IMO. 

 

Short term hit vs long term pride and self-determination; I voted for the latter, knowing full well it could potentially hurt people, including myself and my family, for a time.

Not being afforded the democratically mandated opportunity to fulfill our potential under renewed sovereignty is what will bring this situation to a head, however. It must not be allowed to happen.

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Of course they should be trained and equipped to the same standard.

That is all that has ever been suggested, closer co-operation under national responsibility. Anything else is a distortion in an attempt to support a particular point of view.

You surprise me again believing anything Nigel Farage has to say.

And NATO - how reliable is that with the unpredictable calling the shots.

 

On Thursday, he arrived late  — and apparently furious — at the North Atlantic Council, NATO’s top political decision-making body, and hijacked a meeting that was already in progress with the presidents of Ukraine and Georgia. Taking the floor, he warned of “grave consequences” if allies do not quickly ramp up their spending, and threatened that the U.S. could “go our own way” if they do not meet his demands.

https://www.politico.eu/article/trump-threatens-to-pull-out-of-nato/

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

54 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

what does parliament say? zilch

what does parliament do? zilch

 

double zilch points towards deal being accepted

 

if Brexiteers want to get on top of this they must do something, not later but NOW

 

what does blowjob do? zilch

what does Farage do? zilch

what does retromug do? zilch

what does Raab do? zilch

what does dodgy davies do? zilch

 

you know, when these guys are interviewed by msm,

they say that deal is crap TM is crap

but that does not move foggy islands in any direction

they must DO

 

Finding it hard to decipher some of this Melvin, but here goes.

 

I don't disagree with your statement, broadly speaking. We need politicians who will stand up and be counted.

 

With regard to Farage, he offered his assistance back in 2016, as he has repeated many times when asked the same question as you did above; he was of course rebuffed by the Tories, who, generally speaking, detest him. What is he supposed to do now? Besides being vocal and raising people's awareness / allowing them to voice their opinions in a public domain - i.e.: almost daily radio broadcasts, I don't see what else he can do. He is not in power. All he can do is vote down the 'draft deal' in the EP - which he has claimed he will do this week.

 

BJ and Retromug ? Acquaintances from Nana Plaza? Lost me there mate.

 

Davis could and perhaps should stand up and throw his hat in the ring IF May resigns / the House reject her toilet roll of a deal. JRM wouldn't have the support of his party, being a more inexperienced and non-ministerial Tory back-bencher, despite his balls, intelligence and integrity.

 

It is a difficult position we find ourselves in. What should have happened of course is that Mrs. May should never have been elected as PM, we should have had a Brexiteer in that position from day 1. All I and my 17.4m compatriots can hope for now is that May's deal is blown out of the water, she resigns (to the cheers of the public ????) someone who means business steps into her shoes and we go out on WTO terms and get on with our lives - satisfied in the knowledge that the democratic will of the public has been enacted. 

 

But as my old man (a realist) always said to me, 'crap in one hand and wish in the other...see which one fills up quicker'. Never stopped me from being an optimist!

 

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[adammike]

20 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

Finding it hard to decipher some of this Melvin, but here goes.

 

I don't disagree with your statement, broadly speaking. We need politicians who will stand up and be counted.

 

With regard to Farage, he offered his assistance back in 2016, as he has repeated many times when asked the same question as you did above; he was of course rebuffed by the Tories, who, generally speaking, detest him. What is he supposed to do now? Besides being vocal and raising people's awareness / allowing them to voice their opinions in a public domain - i.e.: almost daily radio broadcasts, I don't see what else he can do. He is not in power. All he can do is vote down the 'draft deal' in the EP - which he has claimed he will do this week.

 

BJ and Retromug ? Acquaintances from Nana Plaza? Lost me there mate.

 

Davis could and perhaps should stand up and throw his hat in the ring IF May resigns / the House reject her toilet roll of a deal. JRM wouldn't have the support of his party, being a more inexperienced and non-ministerial Tory back-bencher, despite his balls, intelligence and integrity.

 

It is a difficult position we find ourselves in. What should have happened of course is that Mrs. May should never have been elected as PM, we should have had a Brexiteer in that position from day 1. All I and my 17.4m compatriots can hope for now is that May's deal is blown out of the water, she resigns (to the cheers of the public ????) someone who means business steps into her shoes and we go out on WTO terms and get on with our lives - satisfied in the knowledge that the democratic will of the public has been enacted. 

 

But as my old man (a realist) always said to me, 'crap in one hand and wish in the other...see which one fills up quicker'. Never stopped me from being an optimist!

 

 

If working out who BJ and Retromug are is beyond you maybe you shouldn't reply.

[melvinmelvin]

9 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

Finding it hard to decipher some of this Melvin, but here goes.

 

I don't disagree with your statement, broadly speaking. We need politicians who will stand up and be counted.

 

With regard to Farage, he offered his assistance back in 2016, as he has repeated many times when asked the same question as you did above; he was of course rebuffed by the Tories, who, generally speaking, detest him. What is he supposed to do now? Besides being vocal and raising people's awareness / allowing them to voice their opinions in a public domain - i.e.: almost daily radio broadcasts, I don't see what else he can do. He is not in power. All he can do is vote down the 'draft deal' in the EP - which he has claimed he will do this week.

 

BJ and Retromug ? Acquaintances from Nana Plaza? Lost me there mate.

 

Davis could and perhaps should stand up and throw his hat in the ring IF May resigns / the House reject her toilet roll of a deal. JRM wouldn't have the support of his party, being a more inexperienced and non-ministerial Tory back-bencher, despite his balls, intelligence and integrity.

 

It is a difficult position we find ourselves in. What should have happened of course is that Mrs. May should never have been elected as PM, we should have had a Brexiteer in that position from day 1. All I and my 17.4m compatriots can hope for now is that May's deal is blown out of the water, she resigns (to the cheers of the public ????) someone who means business steps into her shoes and we go out on WTO terms and get on with our lives - satisfied in the knowledge that the democratic will of the public has been enacted. 

 

But as my old man (a realist) always said to me, 'crap in one hand and wish in the other...see which one fills up quicker'. Never stopped me from being an optimist!

 

 

 

yep,

difficult position now for Brexiteers at heart, you can't get on top without doing something.

Agree, just unfathomable mistake to appoint an announced remainer as the vanguard for the Brexit effort.

 

Waiting for parliament discussing deal and see what happens, is quite passive,

and will in my view not bring Brexiteers on top.

You need to be proactive if you want hands on the wheel.

 

You have,

Rees-Mogg

Boris J

Raab

D Davies

Farage, and I am sure - some others

all well known to the UK public and they enjoy some traction and they have access to msm

 

start a campaign for f's sake - if not - TM will have your balls

 

Tory does not fancy Farage, forget it, if you want to achieve - resources must be pooled

 

if not TM will have your balls

 

[talahtnut]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Why do you keep bringing up intelligence?

 

Your form master was correct; it's a pity that you misunderstood his point!

Why do you often, so narcissistically boast of your

education, and believe that others are incapable of

comprehending such an 'advanced' concept as brexit.

Your argument is merely a  'stakeholders beef'.

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

39 minutes ago, adammike said:

If working out who BJ and Retromug are is beyond you maybe you shouldn't reply.

 

BJ = Boris Johnson or BoJo. Give me a hint - Retromug?

 

If all you can add to the conversation are snide remarks, misinformation and woeful grammar then maybe you should heed your own advice? Do us all a favour!

Edited November 26, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker