Even at 38 baht to the pound most retirees won’t and cannot leave Thailand

[Sheryl]

Sheryl that may be true for Thai health insurance products.  
 
But it is not true for the products I have referred to, which as I have said are a combinaton of life assurance, health inurance, pensions, and very high interest deposit account. Although these products are open to non-Thais, all the literature is in Thai, and I have never met a salesperson for these organisations who can speak English. I assume this is the reason most foreigners are unaware of these products. Also, as I mentioned, a large deposit is required, which would probably deter many expats.
 
By the way, there are no "premiums" as such for these products. The deposit takes care of that, and the returns and terms are fixed, not variable.
 
I have worked in the UK as a manager in the Life and Pensions industry, and I have worked in Thailand in Financial Services, so I may not be a typical case. I have been covered by BUPA for many years via my employers, but I am very happy with my Thai provider, I would not be able to find anyhing like this in the UK, and would not trade it for anyting like BUPA.

Very intetesting. How large a deposit?

And does the continued health cover after the initial term ends still entail no premiums?



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[Tanoshi]

25 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

But it is not true for the products I have referred to, which as I have said are a combinaton of life assurance, health inurance,

Wait until you make a claim on that Health policy.

Not only will the premium increase significantly, your condition will be exempt from any further claims.

 

Seen it happen so many times. As Sheryl stated they'll price you out eventually.

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Will27 said:

Airconditioned or fan Naam?

floor heating.

[My Thai Life]

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Very intetesting. How large a deposit?

And does the continued health cover after the initial term ends still entail no premiums?

Yes, there are no premiums during or after the term of the deposit. Even if you take all your money out of the company at the end of the term you still get health insurance to the age of 90 in the case of the product that I've subscribed to. And it's really excellent insurance, it would cost about 1,000 USD per month as a standalone product.

 

I can't be sure of the maximum and minimum deposits, and it will vary from product to product and provider to provider. 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

Yes, there are no premiums during or after the term of the deposit. Even if you take all your money out of the company at the end of the term you still get health insurance to the age of 90 in the case of the product that I've subscribed to. And it's really excellent insurance, it would cost about 1,000 USD per month as a standalone product.

So what is the actual product you subscribed to and what was the deposit.

Don't keep it a secret if it's so good and affordable.

[Kwasaki]

11 hours ago, Naam said:

 

Luv my farmhouse, rent free, electric free, water free, noodle soup 15 baht say could live on 1,500 baht a month.

Biggest expense immigration once a year. 

 

[My Thai Life]

5 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

So what is the actual product you subscribed to and what was the deposit.

Don't keep it a secret if it's so good and affordable.

As I mentioned earlier, these products have a subscription period. And the terms vary for each product.  The subscription period closed for my main product several years ago. But products open regularly; I've been advised of 3 or 4 so far this year. Go to any Thai high street bancassurer and ask.

 

I never said anything about affordability, but I did say the size of the deposit might deter some expats.

 

[ivor bigun]

2 k a month? Where?

Must be one of the tin shacks behind our house lol

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[BritManToo]

Here you go, brand new and furnished, 2,000bht/month free wifi, never rented before (shophouses they couldn't sell divided into condos).

 

 

[BritManToo]

This block has small rooms 1400bht/month, bigger rooms 1650bht/month, and bigger rooms with aircon 2,000bht/month (big car park outside, swimming poot opposite).

 

[Airalee]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Here you go, brand new and furnished, 2,000bht/month free wifi, never rented before (shophouses they couldn't sell divided into condos).

 

 

I’m sure all the fabulously wealthy contributors here will still find a way to look down their noses rather than just being happy for those of us who don’t breathe the same rarified air.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I’m sure all the fabulously wealthy contributors here will still find a way to look down their noses rather than just being happy for those of us who don’t breathe the same rarified air.

Well I most definitely ain't wealthy and never look up to those who are or down on others ... Regardless of their habitat.....

[ivor bigun]

I’m sure all the fabulously wealthy contributors here will still find a way to look down their noses rather than just being happy for those of us who don’t breathe the same rarified air.

Yes but are they in central Pattaya?

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[Airalee]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Well I most definitely ain't wealthy and never look up to those who are or down on others ... Regardless of their habitat.....

Surely you must know I wasn’t referring to you ?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Airalee said:

Surely you must know I wasn’t referring to you ?

When I had my shop in the UK I had a cup of tea waiting for the road sweeper, I enjoyed our chats...?

[Airalee]

1 minute ago, ivor bigun said:

Yes but are they in central Pattaya?

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Different strokes for different folks.  Some prefer a large metropolis, some prefer a party beach city, some prefer a more rural environment.  San Sai is a pleasant Chiang Mai suburb.  Works for some, not for others.  It does show that for ฿2-4000 that you can get more than a grass hut or tin shack like some posters say.

[simoh1490]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

So what is the actual product you subscribed to and what was the deposit.

Don't keep it a secret if it's so good and affordable.

I think what the OP seems to be describing is insurance investment products which are sold by retail banks, they are not typically advertised as insurance or health insurance products but instead as products with an advertised return or yield. It's only when you dig into them that you find they are really selling insurance, sometimes via a lump sum, more commonly as X payments per year etc. Go see your bank and ask them what investment insurance products they offer and inquire about the underlying health/medical insurance component.

[ivor bigun]

Different strokes for different folks.  Some prefer a large metropolis, some prefer a party beach city, some prefer a more rural environment.  San Sai is a pleasant Chiang Mai suburb.  Works for some, not for others.  It does show that for ฿2-4000 that you can get more than a grass hut or tin shack like some posters say.

I was joking really although we live just outside Pattaya its not for the party town effect,its just that it was handy for our sons education ,we had choices but Bangkok was to busy , and where my wife owns land and the familly own properties ,i like it but not to live,although now our son works the wife fancies going there.oop north. And living far cheaper

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[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I think what the OP seems to be describing is insurance investment products which are sold by retail banks, they are not typically advertised as insurance or health insurance products but instead as products with an advertised return or yield. It's only when you dig into them that you find they are really selling insurance, sometimes via a lump sum, more commonly as X payments per year etc. Go see your bank and ask them what investment insurance products they offer and inquire about the underlying health/medical insurance component.

Yes, I'm aware of what he's talking about.

A good friend was conned sold one of these policies when he opened an account with BKK.

It's a 10 year investment plan, including death and medical cover. where he makes fixed monthly payments.

The return is good on the investment, but...………. he's had two minor surgery procedures, which he had at the local government hospital to reduce the cost. Hernia op 16,000 baht and appendix removal, 12,000 baht.

His initial Health policy included in the investment was around 36,000 baht per annum. 3 years later it's risen to 160,000 baht and any further surgeries or treatment for hernias are now excluded. That's an increase of 124,000 baht for two surgical procedures that cost 28,000 baht.

 

His premiums are now well over 30,000 baht per month and he's been told he can't cancel the Health Insurance as it's part of the Policy.

He is seriously considering cancelling the policy although he will get little return on his investment.

That is obviously just one persons experience.

[mogandave]

I think what the OP seems to be describing is insurance investment products which are sold by retail banks, they are not typically advertised as insurance or health insurance products but instead as products with an advertised return or yield. It's only when you dig into them that you find they are really selling insurance, sometimes via a lump sum, more commonly as X payments per year etc. Go see your bank and ask them what investment insurance products they offer and inquire about the underlying health/medical insurance component.

Yeah, they are constantly hounding my wife. I’m sure they’re all different, but what l looked at was for suckers...

[simoh1490]

51 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Yeah, they are constantly hounding my wife. I’m sure they’re all different, but what l looked at was for suckers...

 

I agree, they seem to me to be a very expensive way to buy insurance plus as said previously, the investment element generally gives a poor return. The problem is that many people buy these products thinking they are purely investment or fixed rate products which clearly they are not, staff at my bank even joke about it with me any time I ask them what's new on the investment front so they do understand very well that they are mostly sucker products.

[Expatwannabee]

20 hours ago, bigginhill said:

What are the reasons a pension gets "frozen" at a certain amount and the basic 160 pounds not given? Is it because of assets exceeding a certain amount? 

Who has paid little income tax do they get the basic?

Sorry if these seem basic questions but I've not been in the Uk for 40yrs and not followed this side of things.

There are a number of issues in what you ask. Firstly UK state pensions are frozen (ie not uprated) when a pensioner moves to Thailand. In typical British fashion this is not true for all countries (so is clearly not fair). Any country that has a reciprocal Insurance agreement with the UK (eg Mauritius) means pensioners there do get increases. Secondly the UK state pension is not means tested but it is taxable, (for anyone who has only the UK pension of £8000 then no tax is taken because the tax free allowance is £11,500pa). Thirdly the state pension is based on National Insurance contributions. To get the full basic pension currently requires 35yrs of contributions. Anyone with less gets the pension pro rata. (At one time it needed 44yrs for a full pension, then it dropped to 30 yrs now back up to 35yrs). Next come changes to the pension itself. It was around £5000 pa it was recently increased to £8000 pa but only for new pensioners (existing pensioners stay as they are, again not fair but it's all about keeping costs down). You might ask how a £3000 pa increase saves costs. The answer is that previously anyone in the UK with only £5000 pa could apply for an additional pension that is means tested. The government set a minimum that everyone should have and the second pension gave an increase up to that minimum. In addition it opened the door for other help. (eg help with council tax and housing benefit). By raising the pension to £8000 pa no pensioner with the full pension can claim additional means tested benefits.

The above is long-winded but does not cover everything and may contain some errors or be a bit out of date but it is more or less the case.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

This block has small rooms 1400bht/month, bigger rooms 1650bht/month, and bigger rooms with aircon 2,000bht/month (big car park outside, swimming poot opposite).

 

The place will soon be full of Britts !

 

[Expatwannabee]

20 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

They have dentists in England?

 

A pensioner in the UK still has to pay for NHS dental treatment unless they are claiming means tested benefits, which then qualify them for free treatment. I'm not sure if it is still the case but at one point it was difficult to find an NHS dentist accepting new patients. Most seem to prefer private clients.  

[Aussie69]

Maybe for you. As for being a mug, I play it straight. The mugs are the ones who get caught and squeal like stuck pigs when they are penalised. Governments do exchange information.

Yeah, and when they do get caught in their lie it is everyone else's fault, the government, the politicians, the rules, the Thais.

[mogandave]

A pensioner in the UK still has to pay for NHS dental treatment unless they are claiming means tested benefits, which then qualify them for free treatment. I'm not sure if it is still the case but at one point it was difficult to find an NHS dentist accepting new patients. Most seem to prefer private clients.  

I think means testing is bull*hit

[My Thai Life]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I think what the OP seems to be describing is insurance investment products which are sold by retail banks, they are not typically advertised as insurance or health insurance products but instead as products with an advertised return or yield. It's only when you dig into them that you find they are really selling insurance,

No this is not true. Most of what you need to know is in the posts that I have made. If you choose not to read them, that's up to you. If you choose to try to understand these products from the point of view of UK products, you will fail.

 

I've just had lunch with my product manager, and she has confirmed that the cover increases every year,  even after the investment side of the product has closed. That means that when the full term of my main product matures in 3 years time, my cover will effectively be index linked until I'm 90, just as it has been for the term of the product so far.

 

I have been offered a choice of investment products to roll over. I have chosen a high interest deposit (12% compound) with no health cover, as I already have health cover from two products in addition to my main product.

 

I have worked as a manager in the UK Life and Pensions business, and I have worked for one of the most well known Thai Financial Services companies. So I'm not a naive investor. On the other hand, I'm not your free personal financial advisor, and neither am I on any commission. I have given you all the information you need, what you do with it is up to you.

 

Returning to the main topic. There are many places you can live cheaply and well in Thailand, including San Sai Chiang Mai. I have no interest in the financial position of the expats I meet. I do have some interest in their life experience and their education, formal or otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

[simoh1490]

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

No this is not true. Most of what you need to know is in the posts that I have made. If you choose not to read them, that's up to you. If you choose to try to understand these products from the point of view of UK products, you will fail.

 

I've just had lunch with my product manager, and she has confirmed that the cover increases every year,  even after the investment side of the product has closed. That means that when the full term of my main product matures in 3 years time, my cover will effectively be index linked until I'm 90, just as it has been for the term of the product so far.

 

I have been offered a choice of investment products to roll over. I have chosen a high interest deposit (12% compound) with no health cover, as I already have health cover from two products in addition to my main product.

 

I have worked as a manager in the UK Life and Pensions business, and I have worked for one of the most well known Thai Financial Services companies. So I'm not a naive investor. On the other hand, I'm not your free personal financial advisor, and neither am I on any commission. I have given you all the information you need, what you do with it is up to you.

 

Returning to the main topic. There are many places you can live cheaply and well in Thailand, including San Sai Chiang Mai. I have no interest in the financial position of the expats I meet. I do have some interest in their life experience and their education, formal or otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

Firstly, I have been resident in Thailand full time for the past 16 years hence I am looking at what was written from a Thai perspective, not a UK perspective.

 

Secondly, I bank with UOB Thailand and have done so for many years, I have just over nine mill. Baht invested in Thailand and I meet with the bank at least quarterly to review products and options, I have no need of additional financial advisors, personal or institutional.

 

My starting point for investments here is the BOT rate which is currently 1.5% and has averaged only 2.23% since the year 2000. As a result, any bank or fixed term deposit is unlikely to offer much more than 1.8% currently given the low range of the BOT rate. So when somebody says they have a financial product that pays 12% I know it is either insurance or equities or mutual fund based or perhaps even a stepped product spanning many many years.

 

If someone has an investment product that offers a competitive rate of return AND non-cancellable medical insurance that is guaranteed to index link until age 90, the product is either a niche boutique product from a wealth management specialist company involving investments of a million Pounds + or it's very fishy smelling indeed.

 

 

[Naam]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

or it's very fishy smelling indeed.

[My Thai Life]

11 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

it's very fishy smelling indeed.

If that's what you want to believe, believe it. You still evidently haven't bothered to read my posts. I have banking and assurance products with 4 well known high street banks. If you're getting 1.5 or 2.23 and you're happy, that's great. 

 

This forum is full of people who seem to think their length of time on the forum, or their length of time in Thailand, or their number of posts, is somehow commensurate with understanding Thailand.

 

Clearly that's not true.