Insufficient pension to qualify for extension of stay based on retirment

[Spidey]

Just now, KiChakayan said:

You don't like metaphors, do you?

 

Seasoning as in "game seasoning": let the meat rest, may be even rot slightly, so that it becomes suitable for consumption. Couldn't be more pertinent, could it? And I lake the "rot" bit, as we all have a high opinion of the Thai banking system.

I always thought that the term for game was "hung" as in "well hung". Seasoning is the salt and pepper that you put on a grouse after it's been well hung.

 

"Well hung" is also a metaphor, but I can't remember what it means as it's been so long since anyone said it to me.

[brianthainess]

On 8/30/2018 at 7:44 AM, Spidey said:

Wow! Really harsh. Can he not travel to a different Changwat and try there?

 

Alternatively can't he just obtain the evidence? I'm British and have to produce evidence every year. I print off three months of bank statements online. Also print off my annual tax return (P60) and one recent company pension payslip. All of which takes me a few minutes.

I believe that any one of the above will suffice but I'm a belt and braces person (a bit anal) and send all 3.

Yes harsh is a excellent word to sum up the I.O. now they getting worse.after 10 yrs of legal retirement visa's, they (four I.O.) made a home visit to a friend demanded to see all 12 documents again when becoming disgruntled he was then threatened to have his visa revoked and sent home. he is married to a Thai made them pose for photos in the house one sitting on the bed together! one was drunk at 11 am and they did not remove their shoes while wandering around HIS house.

[cleverman]

On 29 August 2018 at 3:02 PM, sinbin said:

Or he can pay an agent for an under the table extension. I believe the cost to be around 16,000 in UT. Someone on here must be doing it under the table. Maybe they'll be along soon?

Advising a criminal act should not be allowed. 

[Nyezhov]

19 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

 

"Well hung" is also a metaphor, but I can't remember what it means as it's been so long since anyone said it to me.

well at least someone has said it to you in the past, all I've ever gotten is pointing and hysterical laughter.

[Spidey]

Just now, brianthainess said:

Yes harsh is a excellent word to sum up the I.O. now they getting worse.after 10 yrs of legal retirement visa's, they (four I.O.) made a home visit to a friend demanded to see all 12 documents again when becoming disgruntled he was then threatened to have his visa revoked and sent home. he is married to a Thai made them pose for photos in the house one sitting on the bed together! one was drunk at 11 am and they did not remove their shoes while wandering around HIS house.

I would have no objection to a home visit.

 

However they wouldn't get past my wife without taking their shoes of first, no matter who they are.

 

As for photos on the bed, what will they want next? Photos of you both naked and making out, to prove that you are a genuine couple?

 

I think that your "friend" is a tad naïve, they would have gotten a mouthful from me.....and my wife!

[cleverman]

Just now, Spidey said:

I would have no objection to a home visit.

 

However they wouldn't get past my wife without taking their shoes of first, no matter who they are.

 

As for photos on the bed, what will they want next? Photos of you both naked and making out, to prove that you are a genuine couple?

 

I think that your "friend" is a tad naïve, they would have gotten a mouthful from me.....and my wife!

Are you ex SAS, or maby Navy Seal?

[Peterw42]

18 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Yes harsh is a excellent word to sum up the I.O. now they getting worse.after 10 yrs of legal retirement visa's, they (four I.O.) made a home visit to a friend demanded to see all 12 documents again when becoming disgruntled he was then threatened to have his visa revoked and sent home. he is married to a Thai made them pose for photos in the house one sitting on the bed together! one was drunk at 11 am and they did not remove their shoes while wandering around HIS house.

A little strange asking for the 12 documents as the immigration home visit is usually "after" your documents have been submitted to the office, you wouldn't have the documents available they are at immigration. often the IOs reproduce the photos already submitted, if you did a photo sitting at the kitchen table, they will take the same photo.

[bkk6060]

24 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

Yes harsh is a excellent word to sum up the I.O. now they getting worse.after 10 yrs of legal retirement visa's, they (four I.O.) made a home visit to a friend demanded to see all 12 documents again when becoming disgruntled he was then threatened to have his visa revoked and sent home. he is married to a Thai made them pose for photos in the house one sitting on the bed together! one was drunk at 11 am and they did not remove their shoes while wandering around HIS house.

Seems to me he should keep quiet and do what they say.

 

[Spidey]

Just now, cleverman said:

Are you ex SAS, or maby Navy Seal?

No, but my father was. One thing he taught me was, "You don't need to take crap from w***ers."

[Peterw42]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

No, but my father was. One thing he taught me was, "You don't need to take crap from w***ers."

I have always found the home visits to be friendly, polite, unobtrusive etc but at the end of the day they can deny your visa etc so a level of cooperation is advised. A "give them a mouthful", "dont take any crap" approach may make you feel good but would probably mean no visa. At the end of the day not necessary as they are polite and unobtrusive etc.

I wouldn't believe any 3rd hand accounts of immigration visits as above.

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

I have always found the home visits to be friendly, polite, unobtrusive etc but at the end of the day they can deny your visa etc so a level of cooperation is advised. A "give them a mouthful", "dont take any crap" approach may make you feel good but would probably mean no visa. At the end of the day not necessary as they are polite and unobtrusive etc.

I wouldn't believe any 3rd hand accounts of immigration visits as above.

I too took the account of a home visit with a pinch of salt. I've never had a home visit but wouldn't expect it to be intrusive, the first thing my wife would do is offer them food. She offers everyone food, even the street sweeper gets fed.

 

Whenever I've visited the IO, I've always found them to be polite, courteous and friendly. I would imagine that a home visit would be quite a pleasant experience for all concerned.

 

However, if they did behave in the way that the posters "friend" recounted, I can assure you that they would get a swift kick up the jacksie, visa or no visa. And that's apart from what I would do to them!

 

BTW. I was once told that I was going to be deported by an army bigwig, at the Land and Transport office, after giving her a mouthful. I'm still here.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Spidey

[bkk6060]

44 minutes ago, Spidey said:

 

 

However, if they did behave in the way that the posters "friend" recounted, I can assure you that they would get a swift kick up the jacksie, visa or no visa. And that's apart from what I would do to them!

 

BTW. I was once told that I was going to be deported by an army bigwig, at the Land and Transport office, after giving her a mouthful. I'm still here.

This is the attitude you recommend?

Arrogance and macho approaches I bet have gotten many into big hassles and regrets.

Sometimes it could be important to bit the bullet and move on.

Edited September 20, 2018 by bkk6060

[HauptmannUK]

About two weeks ago I was surprised to be approached for a loan by an old British acquaintance. He was struggling to get enough together for his retirement extension. He is ex-army, but obviously his army pension isn't as generous as I'd imagined.

The GBP is still on a downward trajectory,  and there is no reason it won't lose another 10% against the THB. Lots of UK expats will either be needing the services of 'visa agents' or will need to head home.

[Seeall]

18 hours ago, jayboy said:

It's a question of degree.Of course corruption can be found anywhere but it's muddying the waters to suggest every country is as bad as another.Thailand (and to be fair some other countries in the region as well) is appallingly corrupt on a scale that simply doesn't occur in places like Singapore, the UK or New Zealand.A word's needed on the US where corruption does exist though nothing like the scale of Thailand.In the US corrupt people do face massive fines and jail time.Nothing like that faces corrupt criminals in Thailand where corporate abuse goes unpunished.Also in the US and the UK moderately paid public servants and senior army officers do not end up acquiring vast fortunes.

I feel you guys are talking corruption on the level the average person sees....  if you look or have the inite or possibilty to see the goverment corruption on a vastly larger scale, the west does this all the time.. beleiving you are to small minded to understand, but at the same time the polis  personnel wealth keeps increasing...   

[jayboy]

32 minutes ago, Seeall said:

I feel you guys are talking corruption on the level the average person sees....  if you look or have the inite or possibilty to see the goverment corruption on a vastly larger scale, the west does this all the time.. beleiving you are to small minded to understand, but at the same time the polis  personnel wealth keeps increasing...   

Difficult to interpret this because it's so sloppily written but I think he's saying we are too small minded to understand that corruption on a massive scale undertaken by Western governments equals or eclipses the relatively small scale corruption that exists in countries like Thailand.So I imagine his fatuous conclusion is something like - as regards corruption - all countries are as bad each other.

 

So that's alright then.Thailand can relax and show sangfroid as its ranking on Transparency International's list of corrupt countries continues to hurtle downwards.

[notamember]

On 9/20/2018 at 8:39 AM, cleverman said:

Advising a criminal act should not be allowed. 

so its criminal to loan money?

Thai law says it is criminal if you are charging more than 20% interest

other than that its not and like banks you can advertise it as much as you please and where you please regardless of what its to be used for

Edited September 27, 2018 by notamember

[cleverman]

Just now, notamember said:

so its criminal to loan money?

Thai law says it is criminal if you are charging more than 20% interest

other than that its not and like banks you can advertise it as much as you please and where you please regardless of what its to be used for

Read more carefully. I made no mention about loaning money. Why do you make false comments?

[dallen52]

On 9/20/2018 at 8:39 AM, cleverman said:

Advising a criminal act should not be allowed. 

I'm not sure it's an under the table payment. 

The head at the immigration office has the right to remove or reduce the seasoned money associated with the application. 

Some direct you to the agency outside of the building. 

Right or wrong?

Legal or not?

It works, and is the only way for some.

One advertises on the bottom of this page.

[cleverman]

Just now, dallen52 said:

I'm not sure it's an under the table payment. 

The head at the immigration office has the right to remove or reduce the seasoned money associated with the application. 

Some direct you to the agency outside of the building. 

Right or wrong?

Legal or not?

It works, and is the only way for some.

One advertises on the bottom of this page.

Don't any of you know why the Govt wants us to have 800K Bt or $30K income. ? My 5 year old grand daughter does. 

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Don't any of you know why the Govt wants us to have 800K Bt or $30K income. ? My 5 year old grand daughter does. 

Official Reason: "To ensure those staying here on retirement-based stays have adequate funds to support themselves." 

This makes sense, but the amount is beyond what is needed to live comfortably in Thailand.  Logic would indicate setting a minimum-income amount which maximizes foreign-currency inputs from foreign-residents. 

 

Also, there is an "agent" system to facilitate retirement-extensions for those without the required financials, undercutting any notion that officialdom "really cares" if ex-pats here are even reasonably solvent.  The ads for this agent-service are public, and the scheme ongoing for years, so it would appear to be an officially-approved, unofficial policy. 

 

Ergo ...

Real Reason: "To maximize the use of agents for extensions.  Agents provide short-term loans for the bank letter, then pay into an unofficial financial-channel within the bureaucracy, in order to get the money-seasoning requirements waived." 

 

There are similar Official-vs-Real reasons and schemes associated with other services and extensions of stay, varying by office.  The primary goal is not to "vet" anyone, per the official public mandate, but to extract as much money as possible under the table, regardless of the nature of the applicant.

[jayboy]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Official Reason: "To ensure those staying here on retirement-based stays have adequate funds to support themselves." 

This makes sense, but the amount is beyond what is needed to live comfortably in Thailand.  Logic would indicate setting a minimum-income amount which maximizes foreign-currency inputs from foreign-residents. 

 

Also, there is an "agent" system to facilitate retirement-extensions for those without the required financials, undercutting any notion that officialdom "really cares" if ex-pats here are even reasonably solvent.  The ads for this agent-service are public, and the scheme ongoing for years, so it would appear to be an officially-approved, unofficial policy. 

 

Ergo ...

Real Reason: "To maximize the use of agents for extensions.  Agents provide short-term loans for the bank letter, then pay into an unofficial financial-channel within the bureaucracy, in order to get the money-seasoning requirements waived." 

 

There are similar Official-vs-Real reasons and schemes associated with other services and extensions of stay, varying by office.  The primary goal is not to "vet" anyone, per the official public mandate, but to extract as much money as possible under the table, regardless of the nature of the applicant.

 

Wrong on a number of counts.

 

1.The amount is carefully calibrated to be at the minimum reasonable level.It could be argued the amount should be closer to Bt 50 - 75,000 but the Thai authorities are showing flexibility to those foreigners who are struggling financially. Income of less than Baht 30,000 p.m is not living comfortably for a foreigner - if contingent liabilities are taken into account.

 

2.The purpose of tolerating agents is not to extract under the table money.

 

3.It is always a big mistake in Thailand to assume that because something is tolerated it it is officially endorsed and that there will not be a future crack down.

 

4.The use of agents undermines the purpose of the financial requirements, namely to ensure that the foreigners in straitened circumstances should be kept to the minimum.

[JackThompson]

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 

Wrong on a number of counts.

 

1.The amount is carefully calibrated to be at the minimum reasonable level.It could be argued the amount should be closer to Bt 50 - 75,000 but the Thai authorities are showing flexibility to those foreigners who are struggling financially. Income of less than Baht 30,000 p.m is not living comfortably for a foreigner - if contingent liabilities are taken into account.

It depends on one's lifestyle.  I've never spent even the 40K/mo which is required for marriage-based - when I lived in Jomtien.  Now that I live up-country, the amount needed is even less.

 

14 minutes ago, jayboy said:

2.The purpose of tolerating agents is not to extract under the table money.

 

3.It is always a big mistake in Thailand to assume that because something is tolerated it it is officially endorsed and that there will not be a future crack down.

 

4.The use of agents undermines the purpose of the financial requirements, namely to ensure that the foreigners in straitened circumstances should be kept to the minimum.

Agree on #3 in general - the future is uncertain, which is why I suggest not using agents, or at least keeping your own paperwork to show you didn't fake the financials.  That said, it's been ongoing through changes in administrations - only the fees changing depending on what power-factions are demanding how much. 

As to #2 vs #4, those would seem to contradict each other.  

My solution: Setting a more reasonable amount of funds/income - then actually enforcing that lower amount - as this would accomplish the official goal, without removing thousands of expats who spend foreign-sourced capital into Thailand as-is. 

[bkk6060]

As I have mentioned before, the agent use will never ever go away.

In fact, do not be surprised if someday they make it mandatory to be represented by an agent.

You think just a few IO's are getting paid? It is a very organized distribution. I have some first hand knowledge of this and it is way too much money being distributed to 1000's of members of RTP.

Trust me, they are not going to sacrifice their lifestyles with a "crackdown". No way no how.....

So, if I did not qualify I would have no concern using an agent.  It is welcomed and encouraged by all involved.

[notamember]

7 hours ago, cleverman said:

Read more carefully. I made no mention about loaning money. Why do you make false comments?

 

so whats the criminal act you were referring to?

armed with the knowledge of your intent , i will know if my comment is false or not and apologize if i am wrong

 

[Odysseus123]

The OP is living on the edge.

 

Best of luck and may fortune smile upon you.

[notamember]

5 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Official Reason: "To ensure those staying here on retirement-based stays have adequate funds to support themselves."  

This makes sense, but the amount is beyond what is needed to live comfortably in Thailand.  Logic would indicate setting a minimum-income amount which maximizes foreign-currency inputs from foreign-residents. 

 

Also, there is an "agent" system to facilitate retirement-extensions for those without the required financials, undercutting any notion that officialdom "really cares" if ex-pats here are even reasonably solvent.  The ads for this agent-service are public, and the scheme ongoing for years, so it would appear to be an officially-approved, unofficial policy. 

 

Ergo ...

Real Reason: "To maximize the use of agents for extensions.  Agents provide short-term loans for the bank letter, then pay into an unofficial financial-channel within the bureaucracy, in order to get the money-seasoning requirements waived." 

 

There are similar Official-vs-Real reasons and schemes associated with other services and extensions of stay, varying by office.  The primary goal is not to "vet" anyone, per the official public mandate, but to extract as much money as possible under the table, regardless of the nature of the applicant.

 

Official Reason: "To ensure those staying here on retirement-based stays have adequate funds to support themselves."  

 

do you have a reference to an official source for this?

[Orton Rd]

Friend round the coner was short this year, just 1000 baht solved the problem. This is Thailand, some of you think too much, and no i am not going to name the office!

[notamember]

17 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Friend round the coner was short this year, just 1000 baht solved the problem. This is Thailand, some of you think too much, and no i am not going to name the office!

 

not difficult to guess, your past posts and topics  are littered with clues as to where you are

[JackThompson]

sdf

3 hours ago, notamember said:

Official Reason: "To ensure those staying here on retirement-based stays have adequate funds to support themselves."  

 

do you have a reference to an official source for this?

 

Come to think of it, I do not.  Also could be, "To ensure there is no need for the applicant to work-illegally"?  I am open to other suggestions of why they created a financial-vetting process.

[The manic]

On 8/29/2018 at 8:41 AM, scubascuba3 said:

12900 in Pattaya the lowest I've heard of. I wouldn't do it unless desperate, like the op

 

20 k in pats plus extra for multiple ...if anyone know cheaper please PM me or put it on this forum