social security

[Pib]

The whole thing started when Bangkok Bank updated their webpage regarding U.S. govt payments will also need to transmitted in IAT format.  Before the IAT format was only going to be required for "ibanking" transfers, Bangkok Bank updated the info on their webpage saying IAT will be required for ibanking transfers starting 1 Apr 19.  And is already in effect as of around Mar 18 (eighteen) if trying to setup a new ibanking transfer link to Bangkok Bank which used the trial deposits method.  Such transfer links are already being rejected unless the trail deposits are sent in IAT format, but no U.S. bank use IAT format...only domestic format.   Seems Bangkok Bank is slowly sliding into complying with the OFAC and NACHA rule...a step by step process versus cutting everybody off at once...giving them time to work the issue more.

 

One of the  problems  with some responses from the general help desk at the NY branch, is they can give wishy-washy answers.  Like the NY help desk's answer to your email....notice they used the "should" word....should be OK.  The general rep has probably been given a script to repeat regarding the issue as the issue is still being worked.

 

The rep I talked to in the NY branch section that works in the transfer section (not a general info rep) initially gave me a similar response and the rep also said most transfers from the SSA were transmitted in IAT format versus PPD format (PPD means it's a domestic ACH) and there shouldn't be nothing to worry about.  I then asked why did Bangkok Bank change their wording on web page saying IAT format will be required and I also said are you sure SS payments are in IAT format.  A bit of silence occurred at that point as the rep asked another rep. 

 

Then the rep looked up the latest SS payment to a member of my household family...the rep needed to know the Bangkok Bank account number and payment amount to look up the transfer payment...gave the info to the rep...the rep looked up the payment...the payment was sent in PPD format (domestic); not IAT format (international).    Now seeing the the SS payment was not in IAT format the rep began to backtrack...recommended I contact the SSA for further guidance....even gave me the Manila FBU email address.   

 

The rep also said Bangkok Bank NY is still working/hoping for a resolution to the problem within a few months, but was also planning to notify U.S. govt agencies in a few months of the bank's need to comply with OFAC and NACHA guidance requiring IAT format.

 

I expect whenever someone gives a U.S. govt agency the Bangkok Bank NY routing number and your account number when the govt agency enters that bank info they see it's a U.S. bank.  Yes, the NY branch is a licensed U.S. bank and not a Thai bank...the parent company is Thai but the NY branch is a license by the Federal Reserve as  "U.S. bank" for the type of transfer coding is automatically PPD...that is, a Domestic ACH Transaction....not an International ACH Transaction (IAT).

 

Also keep in mind back around Apr 18 when people start experiencing rejects when trying to setup new ibanking transfer links to Bangkok Bank that the wording on their webpage went to a short sentence saying something along the lines of "...ibanking transfers the service was under review as there have been some changes to our terms and conditions and we hope to have it resolved soon."   Then around June that wording was replaced with the current long wording of saying IAT format must be used effectively 1 Apr 19 otherwise the transfer would be rejected. 

 

So, how did they resolve the  ibanking problem....well, they really didn't....they just buckled to complying with OFAC and NACHA rules which requires IAT format for funds leaving the U.S.  But at that time the wording for U.S. govt payments remained unchanged....same wording that been there for years....no mention of IAT format requirement....sure gives the impression U.S. govt payments will not be affected....IAT format will not be required.  However, about a week ago that wording also changed to requiring IAT.

 

I sincerely hope Bangkok Bank NY does resolve the issue....maybe they are in serious talks with U.S. govt agencies...the OFAC regarding this...hoping to get a waiver....just find a resolution.  Or maybe working to become part of the U.S. Treasury International Direct Deposit (IDD) which no Thai banks are part of.   Maybe they are (___your fill in this blank___).  

 

If you call the NY Branch ask to speak to the section that handles ACH transfers....ask them to look up your latest U.S. govt payment to see if it was transmitted in IAT or PPD format.    You will need to be able to provide your account number, the last payment amount, and the date.   Just don't accept an answer that you "should" be OK and all SS payments are in IAT format already.

 

[marcusarelus]

I just got off the phone with Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit department where I set up my direct deposit account.  02-230-1323.

She told me three times (because I asked three times) that US government Social Security payments were now in IAT format.

 

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I just got off the phone with Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit department where I set up my direct deposit account.  02-230-1323.

She told me three times (because I asked three times) that US government Social Security payments were now in IAT format.

That's Bangkok Bank "in Thailand"...they are just parroting New York branch info which is questionable..."should" kinda of info.   I guess the NY branch rep which works in the transfers dept when looking at the specific SS payment for a family member going to a Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account didn't know the difference between IAT and PPD format....and when seeing in PPD format then started backtracking about SSA payments to Bangkok bank all being in IAT format. 

 

But you seem happy now based on your phone call to Bangkok Bank in Thailand...so that is good.  You have no worries.

 

 

[marcusarelus]

19 minutes ago, Pib said:

That's Bangkok Bank "in Thailand"...they are just parroting New York branch info which is questionable..."should" kinda of info.   I guess the NY branch rep which works in the transfers dept when looking at the specific SS payment for a family member going to a Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account didn't know the difference between IAT and PPD format....and when seeing in PPD format then started backtracking about SSA payments to Bangkok bank all being in IAT format. 

 

But you seem happy now based on your phone call to Bangkok Bank in Thailand...so that is good.  You have no worries.

No, but the NY branch is not open at midnight or I would have tried to call them.  The Bangkok Bank in Thailand told me that other pension programs might not be IAT but SS was.  I'll let you know what they say in NY after I talk to them. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Pib]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

No, but the NY branch is not open at midnight or I would have tried to call them.  The Bangkok Bank in Thailand told me that other pension programs might not be IAT but SS was.  I'll let you know what they say after I talk to them. 

When you talk to the NY branch tell them you want then to look at your specific SS payment...what format it was received in...IAT or PPD.   Your specific transaction.  Focus on them talking about your specific payment versus then trying to give a generalized statement such as XX percentage is in IAT....you "should" be OK...etc.  

 

You will need to ask the rep that answers the phone to connect you to a person in the ACH transfers department....you don't want to talk to the rep that initially answers the phone.  When talking to a rep in the transfers dept ask about your specific payment...have them look it up to determine what format it was received in.  They will ask for  your account number, the specific amount of your payment in dollars, and the approx date of the payment.  

 

IAT is the international format and PPD means the Domestic format.   

 

And I don't want to confuse you but U.S. govt payments are made in "batches" where your payment is just one of many...probably thousands hitting Bangkok Bank throughout the month.  The U.S. Treasury receives payment instructions from various U.S. govt agencies such as social security agency, Defense Finance Accounting Service (DFAS) for military retirement, etc....basically, SSA submits ACH payment files to the U.S. Treasury and it's the U.S. Treasury that actually makes the payment.   With those "batch" transfers there could be a combination of IAT and PPD payments.    You need to ask about your specific payment...be sure they look at your specific payment as they did for my household member and said it arrived in PPD format....and then started the rep started backtracking in saying all SSA payments were in IAT.  See below snapshot talking IAT and PPD for some more info.

 

Now, if by chance they say your payment is in IAT format when they look it up to confirm I would be interested to know if you have a regular Thai address on file with SSA  (that's the only address) or if you also have another "mailing" address which may be a U.S. address like an APO (military) mailing address like my household member uses.    

 

The reason I ask this is if they say your specific payment was in IAT and "if" you only have a Thailand address on-file with SSA then maybe, repeat, maybe, for a person with only a foreign address on file they do use IAT format.  But if the person has a foreign physical address but also a U.S. mailing address then the payment gets sent in PPD format. 

 

Just be sure to focus on your specific payment....have them look it up and specifically ask did it arrive as a IAT or PPD transaction.

 

Please note this is a snapshot form a 2009 bank document when IAT was starting to be pushed as

a requirement. It was giving some initial guidance IAT and PPD usage which indicates PPD format is fine.  However, it's now 9 years later and OFAC/NACHA requirements  have tightened regarding foreign payments...which format must be used.

[marcusarelus]

47 minutes ago, Pib said:

When you talk to the NY branch tell them you want then to look at your specific SS payment...what format it was received in...IAT or PPD.   Your specific transaction.  Focus on them talking about your specific payment versus then trying to give a generalized statement such as XX percentage is in IAT....you "should" be OK...etc.  

 

You will need to ask the rep that answers the phone to connect you to a person in the ACH transfers department....you don't want to talk to the rep that initially answers the phone.  When talking to a rep in the transfers dept ask about your specific payment...have them look it up to determine what format it was received in.  They will ask for  your account number, the specific amount of your payment in dollars, and the approx date of the payment.  

 

IAT is the international format and PPD means the Domestic format.   

 

And I don't want to confuse you but U.S. govt payments are made in "batches" where your payment is just one of many...probably thousands hitting Bangkok Bank throughout the month.  The U.S. Treasury receives payment instructions from various U.S. govt agencies such as social security agency, Defense Finance Accounting Service (DFAS) for military retirement, etc....basically, SSA submits ACH payment files to the U.S. Treasury and it's the U.S. Treasury that actually makes the payment.   With those "batch" transfers there could be a combination of IAT and PPD payments.    You need to ask about your specific payment...be sure they look at your specific payment as they did for my household member and said it arrived in PPD format....and then started the rep started backtracking in saying all SSA payments were in IAT.  See below snapshot talking IAT and PPD for some more info.

 

Now, if by chance they say your payment is in IAT format when they look it up to confirm I would be interested to know if you have a regular Thai address on file with SSA  (that's the only address) or if you also have another "mailing" address which may be a U.S. address like an APO (military) mailing address like my household member uses.    

 

The reason I ask this is if they say your specific payment was in IAT and "if" you only have a Thailand address on-file with SSA then maybe, repeat, maybe, for a person with only a foreign address on file they do use IAT format.  But if the person has a foreign physical address but also a U.S. mailing address then the payment gets sent in PPD format. 

 

Just be sure to focus on your specific payment....have them look it up and specifically ask did it arrive as a IAT or PPD transaction.

 

Please note this is a snapshot form a 2009 bank document when IAT was starting to be pushed as

a requirement. It was giving some initial guidance IAT and PPD usage which indicates PPD format is fine.  However, it's now 9 years later and OFAC/NACHA requirements  have tightened regarding foreign payments...which format must be used.

What did you do to get your PPD payment changed to IAT?

[Pib]

What did you do to get your PPD payment changed to IAT?

I didn't. That can only be done by whoever makes the payment and in the the case of U.S. govt payments I expect that is driven where the payment is being made to, bank its being paid to, how a person signed up for the payment, etc.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What did you do to get your PPD payment changed to IAT?

I didn't. That can only be done by whoever makes the payment and in the the case of U.S. govt payments I expect that is driven where the payment is being made to, bank its being paid to, how a person signed up for the payment, etc.

I signed up for SS in Thailand over the phone to Manila and have only always had a Thai address.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I signed up for SS in Thailand over the phone to Manila and have only always had a Thai address.

Since you only have a foreign address on file with SS if your specific SS payment is in IAT then a person's address with SS "might" be the key.   Repeat, "might" be the key if you can confirm "your SS payment" arrived NY branch in IAT format.

 

It easy to see if a payment arrived in IAT or PPD format....several ways to determine that.  Easiest way is to look at the entry in the Standard Entry Class (SEC) field...if the entry is "IAT" then it's in International format....if the entry is "PPD" then it's domestic format. There are other differences also like the additional recipient info.

 

As mentioned earlier if my household member's SS payment was in PPD format per the NY branch rep and as mentioned earlier my household member has two addresses on file with SS.   One is the in-Thailand physical residence here in Bangkok and a separate Thailand APO "mailing address."   Ditto for me but I don't have my SS payment go to Bangkok Bank...I goes to a bank in Texas.    But an APO address is still a U.S. mailing address under the U.S. postal system although the address represents a U.S. military facility/base/ship somewhere outside the U.S.

 

There is a possibility folks with a U.S. address on file with SS (whether physical address or mailing address) although using Bangkok Bank for their SS payment end-up getting their SS payment coded as PPD.  But if a person only has a foreign address on file it gets coded IAT.

 

Yea, will be interesting to find out what format the NY branch receive your SS payment in...IAT or PPD.  Important to get them to look at your specific payment coding to see if it's coded IAT or PPD.   Ask them what code is in the Standard Entry Class (SEC) field.  This should also infer to them they are talking to someone who has more than the average knowledge level on ACH payment format.

 

As FYI I asked the Manila FBU last week does SS use IAT (International) or PPD (Domestic) coding for SS payments to Bangkok Bank.  The rep said they (Manila) don't know that level of detail...said they (Manila) only enter the routing number and account number into the SS payment system.   Just like if you would call-up social security, military retirement, VA, etc., payment/call centers to change the bank you are having your payment sent to....after they verify who you are all they usually ask for is the routing number and your account number and maybe the name of the bank.  They ask the name of the bank ensure once they enter the routing number and their system automatically retrieves and displays the bank name that it matches the bank you said....if it don't then maybe they misunderstood the routing number you gave and they'll ask you to repeat the routing number....it's more of a double check to.  

 

 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Since you only have a foreign address on file with SS if your specific SS payment is in IAT then a person's address with SS "might" be the key.   Repeat, "might" be the key if you can confirm "your SS payment" arrived NY branch in IAT format.

 

It easy to see if a payment arrived in IAT or PPD format....several ways to determine that.  Easiest way is to look at the entry in the Standard Entry Class (SEC) field...if the entry is "IAT" then it's in International format....if the entry is "PPD" then it's domestic format. There are other differences also like the additional recipient info.

 

As mentioned earlier if my household member's SS payment was in PPD format per the NY branch rep and as mentioned earlier my household member has two addresses on file with SS.   One is the in-Thailand physical residence here in Bangkok and a separate Thailand APO "mailing address."   Ditto for me but I don't have my SS payment go to Bangkok Bank...I goes to a bank in Texas.    But an APO address is still a U.S. mailing address under the U.S. postal system although the address represents a U.S. military facility/base/ship somewhere outside the U.S.

 

There is a possibility folks with a U.S. address on file with SS (whether physical address or mailing address) although using Bangkok Bank for their SS payment end-up getting their SS payment coded as PPD.  But if a person only has a foreign address on file it gets coded IAT.

 

Yea, will be interesting to find out what format the NY branch receive your SS payment in...IAT or PPD.  Important to get them to look at your specific payment coding to see if it's coded IAT or PPD.   Ask them what code is in the Standard Entry Class (SEC) field.  This should also infer to them they are talking to someone who has more than the average knowledge level on ACH payment format.

 

As FYI I asked the Manila FBU last week does SS use IAT (International) or PPD (Domestic) coding for SS payments to Bangkok Bank.  The rep said they (Manila) don't know that level of detail...said they (Manila) only enter the routing number and account number into the SS payment system.   Just like if you would call-up social security, military retirement, VA, etc., payment/call centers to change the bank you are having your payment sent to....after they verify who you are all they usually ask for is the routing number and your account number and maybe the name of the bank.  They ask the name of the bank ensure once they enter the routing number and their system automatically retrieves and displays the bank name that it matches the bank you said....if it don't then maybe they misunderstood the routing number you gave and they'll ask you to repeat the routing number....it's more of a double check to. 

Wouldn't the Bangkok Bank in Thailand have this information? 

Edited September 5, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Pib]

34 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Wouldn't the Bangkok Bank in Thailand have this information? 

Maybe you could ask....but I don't think so.  I think Bangkok Bank NY uses the SWIFT system to forward ACH transactions from the NY branch to the in-Thailand branch.   Payment arrives NY branch via ACH but continues on within the Bangkok Bank system as a SWIFT transfer.    I say that because just a few months ago social security recalled an SS over-payment to a household member....we knew it was coming as SS messed up on calculating the initial benefit payment.   SS sent the recall to Bangkok Bank NY who in turn sent a SWIFT recall message to Bangkok Bank here in Thailand.  We got a call the bank wanted the member to come in and sign off on the recall...went in....signed off...money sent back.  The bank showed us the recall message...it was a "SWIFT" message.     

 

Then again maybe the NY branch was just using the SWIFT messaging system to tell the in-Thailand branch to send the funds back....maybe because they might have to use SWIFT to send the funds back to the NY branch.  Then the NY branch would send the funds back to SS via ACH since SS used ACH to send the funds to the NY branch.  

 

The key focal point is the NY branch as they are the gateway for the ACH payments...they will determine whether payment continue on to your Thailand branch or are sent back.  I seriously doubt the in-Thailand branch looks at anything other than maybe ensuring the name on the incoming transfers matches the name on your account as we frequently see TV posts where Bangkok Bank sent back an incoming funds transfer due to a name mismatch.  Then again people also send funds from their account to other accounts in Thailand like a spouse so I don't now how nick-picky Bangkok Bank really is on matching names....maybe other things trigger the funds kickback.

 

Whoever you ask...you want them to look at your specific payment format for the SEC code.  IAT or PPD.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Pib

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Maybe you could ask....but I don't think so.  I think Bangkok Bank NY uses the SWIFT system to forward ACH transactions from the NY branch to the in-Thailand branch.   Payment arrives NY branch via ACH but continues on within the Bangkok Bank system as a SWIFT transfer.    I say that because just a few months ago social security recalled an SS over-payment to a household member....we knew it was coming as SS messed up on calculating the initial benefit payment.   SS sent the recall to Bangkok Bank NY who in turn sent a SWIFT recall message to Bangkok Bank here in Thailand.  We got a call the bank wanted the member to come in and sign off on the recall...went in....signed off...money sent back.  The bank showed us the recall message...it was a "SWIFT" message.  

 

Whoever you ask...you want them to look at your specific payment format for the SEC code.  IAT or PPD.

The ACH department looked at my payments and the SEC fields are in IAT.  Talked to two people who could not or would not look up my account before I got to the correct department and she looked up my account. 

 

I could not tell her the exact amount of the payment in dollars as I don't know what exchange rate was at the exact moment of  transfer.  I don't know how you did it?  I gave her my name and account number and she looked it up.  The two guys before the ACH dept said all the SS accounts were in IAT. 

Edited September 5, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Pib]

The ACH department looked at my payments and the SEC fields are in IAT.  Talked to two people who could not or would not look up my account before I got to the correct department and she looked up my account. 
 
I could not tell her the exact amount of the payment in dollars as I don't know what exchange rate was at the exact moment of  transfer.  I don't know how you did it?  I gave her my name and account number and she looked it up.  The two guys before the ACH dept said all the SS accounts were in IAT. 

Good you called. How I new the exact amount is by using the mySSA online account which shows a person's exact payment minus any deductions but you would have needed to open your mySSA account at some point when you had a US address. You can't open one with a foriegn address.

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't talk to the same lady...I have her name but prefer not to post it on a public forum. As mentioned before the lady who looked up my household members SS payment and it was a PPD payment. She then started backtracking on her initial statement all SS payments are in IAT format.

As mentioned earlier that may be due to the US APO Thailand mailing address where you have a foreign Thailand address.

Guess we will all know for sure come the April 19 U.S govt benefit payment.

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

I could not tell her the exact amount of the payment in dollars as I don't know what exchange rate was at the exact moment of  transfer.  I don't know how you did it? 

I get a SMS when my funds come it in that shows the amount in baht (minus the local fee)  and in dollars minus the fee for NY and the exchange rate used.

The service is free. I suggest you request it be set up at your local branch.

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I get a SMS when my funds come it in that shows the amount in baht (minus the local fee)  and in dollars minus the fee for NY and the exchange rate used.

The service is free. I suggest you request it be set up at your local branch.

I get the SMS that shows my funds in baht but not dollars.  I believe I set it up at an ATM.  So, I need to go to the bank to get the dollar minus fee at the bank?

 

Edit Whoops.  Just looked it up.  https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Digital-Banking/SMS-Services/SMS-Remittance-Alert

Edited September 6, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Pib]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I get the SMS that shows my funds in baht but not dollars.  I believe I set it up at an ATM.  So, I need to go to the bank to get the dollar minus fee at the bank?

 

Edit Whoops.  Just looked it up.  https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Digital-Banking/SMS-Services/SMS-Remittance-Alert

When  setting it up be sure to request English language setup as the SMS received in English is supposedly a little more descriptive than the Thai language SMS version.   The English version will say who the funds came from the THB amount, the USD amount rec'd (it's the amount after the NY branch slices off it's fee) and exchange rate, the "in-Thailand" Bangkok Bank fee amount, and account number posted to.  

 

Since the U.S. govt payments are sent to your special Bangkok Bank Direct Deposit account (or are supposed to be) which does not come with a debit card you can not use your debit card at an ATM to request the free SMS.  You will need to go to your branch and fill out form.

 

But you can setup the free SMS at an ATM for funds going to a regular account which comes with debit card.

[Langsuan Man]

The biggest thing missing in the Thai version of Bangkok Banks SMS system is the exchange rate used for the transfer.  My English SMS have it, yet my girlfriend's Thai SMS do not

 

Not sure if it is because of the difference in language or that Bangkok Bank doesn't think Thais need the exchange rate 

[FaFaHead]

Seems somewhat of a convoluted process to get direct deposit to Bangkok Bank. 

[marcusarelus]

43 minutes ago, FaFaHead said:

Seems somewhat of a convoluted process to get direct deposit to Bangkok Bank. 

Simple process. Call Bangkok Bank 022301323 or 022301326 and they will tell you how to set it up.  If it will work after April 19, 2019 is the question. 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by marcusarelus

[marcusarelus]

On 9/5/2018 at 10:07 AM, Pib said:

The whole thing started when Bangkok Bank updated their webpage regarding U.S. govt payments will also need to transmitted in IAT format.  Before the IAT format was only going to be required for "ibanking" transfers, Bangkok Bank updated the info on their webpage saying IAT will be required for ibanking transfers starting 1 Apr 19.  And is already in effect as of around Mar 18 (eighteen) if trying to setup a new ibanking transfer link to Bangkok Bank which used the trial deposits method.  Such transfer links are already being rejected unless the trail deposits are sent in IAT format, but no U.S. bank use IAT format...only domestic format.   Seems Bangkok Bank is slowly sliding into complying with the OFAC and NACHA rule...a step by step process versus cutting everybody off at once...giving them time to work the issue more.

 

One of the  problems  with some responses from the general help desk at the NY branch, is they can give wishy-washy answers.  Like the NY help desk's answer to your email....notice they used the "should" word....should be OK.  The general rep has probably been given a script to repeat regarding the issue as the issue is still being worked.

 

The rep I talked to in the NY branch section that works in the transfer section (not a general info rep) initially gave me a similar response and the rep also said most transfers from the SSA were transmitted in IAT format versus PPD format (PPD means it's a domestic ACH) and there shouldn't be nothing to worry about.  I then asked why did Bangkok Bank change their wording on web page saying IAT format will be required and I also said are you sure SS payments are in IAT format.  A bit of silence occurred at that point as the rep asked another rep. 

 

Then the rep looked up the latest SS payment to a member of my household family...the rep needed to know the Bangkok Bank account number and payment amount to look up the transfer payment...gave the info to the rep...the rep looked up the payment...the payment was sent in PPD format (domestic); not IAT format (international).    Now seeing the the SS payment was not in IAT format the rep began to backtrack...recommended I contact the SSA for further guidance....even gave me the Manila FBU email address.   

 

The rep also said Bangkok Bank NY is still working/hoping for a resolution to the problem within a few months, but was also planning to notify U.S. govt agencies in a few months of the bank's need to comply with OFAC and NACHA guidance requiring IAT format.

 

I expect whenever someone gives a U.S. govt agency the Bangkok Bank NY routing number and your account number when the govt agency enters that bank info they see it's a U.S. bank.  Yes, the NY branch is a licensed U.S. bank and not a Thai bank...the parent company is Thai but the NY branch is a license by the Federal Reserve as  "U.S. bank" for the type of transfer coding is automatically PPD...that is, a Domestic ACH Transaction....not an International ACH Transaction (IAT).

 

Also keep in mind back around Apr 18 when people start experiencing rejects when trying to setup new ibanking transfer links to Bangkok Bank that the wording on their webpage went to a short sentence saying something along the lines of "...ibanking transfers the service was under review as there have been some changes to our terms and conditions and we hope to have it resolved soon."   Then around June that wording was replaced with the current long wording of saying IAT format must be used effectively 1 Apr 19 otherwise the transfer would be rejected. 

 

So, how did they resolve the  ibanking problem....well, they really didn't....they just buckled to complying with OFAC and NACHA rules which requires IAT format for funds leaving the U.S.  But at that time the wording for U.S. govt payments remained unchanged....same wording that been there for years....no mention of IAT format requirement....sure gives the impression U.S. govt payments will not be affected....IAT format will not be required.  However, about a week ago that wording also changed to requiring IAT.

 

I sincerely hope Bangkok Bank NY does resolve the issue....maybe they are in serious talks with U.S. govt agencies...the OFAC regarding this...hoping to get a waiver....just find a resolution.  Or maybe working to become part of the U.S. Treasury International Direct Deposit (IDD) which no Thai banks are part of.   Maybe they are (___your fill in this blank___).  

 

If you call the NY Branch ask to speak to the section that handles ACH transfers....ask them to look up your latest U.S. govt payment to see if it was transmitted in IAT or PPD format.    You will need to be able to provide your account number, the last payment amount, and the date.   Just don't accept an answer that you "should" be OK and all SS payments are in IAT format already.

 

I just got the email below from Manila SS and Bangkok Bank through Manila SS

 

1st  letter Manila SS to Bangkok bank.

Subject: FW: [EXTERNAL] Bank of Bangkok no longer accepts Social Security payments

 

Greetings from Social Security!

 

We received this email from one of our beneficiaries who is receiving benefits through your bank.

 

Based on Mr. ........ understanding of Bangkok Bank's policy, it will no longer accept Social Security payments effective 04/1/2019.

 

However, based on our understanding of Bangkok Bank's policy, Bangkok Bank will continue to receive payments as long as the ACH has complied to NACHA and OFAC requirements by 4/1/19.

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

Is our understanding correct? Is this something that the client has to do by himself?

 

Any clarification is much appreciated.

 

Best Regards,

_________________

 

2nd letter Bangkok Bank to SS Manila

 

Dear ......

 

Thank you for your inquiry to the Social Security, Bangkok Bank will continue to  receive your payment  as usual but need your kind assistance to contact the social security agency to complete your below details in the payment transaction in order to comply with NACHA regulation.

 

1.Your name and physical address in Thailand;

2.Your bank account number and the name and address of your Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand; and

3.The 9-digit routing number of Bangkok Bank New York branch, which acts as the intermediary in the transaction, which is 026008691

Once Bangkok Bank, New York receives the correct payment transaction (IAT format) from the Social Security, they can process and send the payment to Bangkok Bank in Thailand for further credit into your account.

Hope this will clarify your concern and please feel free to contact me if you need more information.

 

Best regards.

Global Payment Services Department

 

[Pib]

Don't you love it.  An inquiry to Manila SS regarding the info on the  Bangkok Bank webpage.   Manila basically relays the inquiry to Bangkok Bank who in turn basically relays the Bangkok Bank webpage info back as an answer.   Ever feel like you are stuck in the Ground Hog Day movie.....riding a Merry Go Round...etc. 

[marcusarelus]

41 minutes ago, Pib said:

Don't you love it.  An inquiry to Manila SS regarding the info on the  Bangkok Bank webpage.   Manila basically relays the inquiry to Bangkok Bank who in turn basically relays the Bangkok Bank webpage info back as an answer.   Ever feel like you are stuck in the Ground Hog Day movie.....riding a Merry Go Round...etc. 

Did Bangkok Bank write that they were receiving all Social Security payments now in IAT format?  Who would you contact at Social Security to " to complete your below details in the payment transaction in order to comply with NACHA regulation.?"

 

I don't understand what Bangkok Bank said.  Do you?

[Pib]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

Did Bangkok Bank write that they were receiving all Social Security payments now in IAT format?  Who would you contact at Social Security to " to complete your below details in the payment transaction in order to comply with NACHA regulation.?"

 

I don't understand what Bangkok Bank said.  Do you?

Yes, I understood what Bangkok Bank said.  They said IAT format must be used effective 1 Apr 19 and all they did is regurgitate the info on their webpage which is also their canned email response to any inquiry.   Basically it puts the monkey back on the individual to work with whatever govt agency is making the payment.

 

Since Manila does not make the actual payments and only process applications and related docs, Manila is really clueless on the "specifics of payments such as the ACH format used" as that is handled by the Baltimore Payment Office who in turns provide payments instructions/files to the U.S. Treasury who generates the payment.  Any payment issue you raise with Manila, like a incorrect or missing payment or this IAT issue, Manila in turn has to go to the Baltimore Payment Office for the possible answer.  Who/what office at Baltimore to contact I don't have a clue....and lord know trying to call and get a human on the phone at the Baltimore Office (other than the person who just writes down your question for forwarding to another section/person for replying 

 

When you contacted the Bangkok Bank NY branch and talked to someone in their section who could actually see the format your payment arrived in, they told you it arrived in IAT format and if I remember right that person said "all" social security payments arrive in IAT format.  I fully believe they told you that.  However, when I talked the NY branch section a few weeks earlier who could see the format my family member SS payment was received in it was not IAT but PPD (domestic)...and that person also told me "almost" all SS payment are received in IAT format but when I asked how much is "almost" she said 70%.   Hopefully you will believe that is what I was told. 

 

I figure the Bangkok Bank NY and  Bangkok Bank here in Thailand "are now locked/scripted into" what is on their webpage and a person is not going to get any other answer...period....dot.

 

And like we talked earlier you have only one Thailand address you have on-file with SS which is your Thai foreign address; whereas, my family member has two addresses on-file...our Thailand physical address here in Bangkok and U.S. APO mailing address here in Thailand.  Since the only address you have is a foreign address maybe that automatically caused your payment to be coded in IAT format by SS and maybe for my family member with the U.S. APO mailing address that automatically caused the payment to be in PPD format.  But I'm guessing about the address possibility assuming your payment is truly in IAT format as you were told by the NY branch and my family member payment is truly in PPD format as I was told by the NY branch.

 

Plus, I'm pretty sure that although all SS payments...even those in PPD (domestic format)....include a lot  of the info required such as more identifying info on the recipient although one key field of the ACH transfer file, specifically the three digit Standard Entry Class (SEC) field may have the PPD entry versus the IAT entry.   And since IAT and PPD payments can be intermixed in a batch payment submission maybe Bangkok Bank will continue to let PPD code payments to go through in those batch payments.  But if Bangkok Bank computers are setup come 1 Apr 19 to  reject any payment transaction without the IAT entry in the SEC field---specifically keying in on that SEC field entry which would be super easy to do-- then SS payments coded with PPD should be rejected.     But will Bangkok Bank actually reject those....guess we'll have to wait and see....hopefully they will not.

 

And if PPD coded payments are rejected I can just see that goat-rope.  When a persons contacts Manila they will look in their system to see a payment was made to Bangkok Bank, but Manila will not be able to see any rejected payment.  Manila will tell you to check with Bangkok Bank some more.  Bangkok Bank will eventually say they rejected it.  Now back to Manila with the info who in turn must sends a message to Baltimore who responses to issues/queries about as fast as a snail crawling for a mile.   And hopefully any reject by Bangkok Bank to Baltimore will include the specific reason versus just saying rejected for some unknown reason which would probably cause Baltimore to think the person closed the account and never gave social security the new bank account info.   But hopefully none of this will happen...but if it does I will not be surprised.  Let's hope for the best that there is communication in the background between Bangkok Bank and govt agencies on the change and come 1 Apr 19 payment from U.S. govt agencies will continue to flow to Bangkok Bank account whether in PPD or IAT format.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

Today I visited my Bangkok Bank branch in the HQ Bangkok Bank building on Silom Rd in Bangkok regarding a general banking issue.  After I got that issue resolved I went up to the 2nd floor and talked to the HQ section that deals with receiving U.S. govt payments and various other global payment activities where I wanted to get more info on the Bangkok Bank policy change regarding IAT.  Talked to Mrs Supatra Phetchai....very nice, smart and professional lady.  

 

Khun Supatra gave me a hot-off-the-press copy of a 1 Oct 18 Bangkok Bank letter (attached) that will be given to people who received U.S. govt payments such as social security, military retirement, civil service retirement, VA payments....just any U.S. govt payment.

 

The letter is suppose to be given to people with Bangkok Bank "Direct Deposit" accounts used for U.S. govt payments when they visit a branch to make a withdrawal. No indication the letter would be mailed out.  And apparently a memo has been (or soon will be sent) to all Bangkok Bank branches informing branch personal how to check to see if your U.S. govt payment is arriving in the soon to be required IAT format if you decide to go in and ask.

 

The branch can pull a detailed transaction report on your latest payment to Bangkok Bank to determine if IAT format was  used.  A payment received in IAT format will show the full name and address of the sending agency and  also show your full name and address here in Thailand along with having a "SEC code of IAT" in the lower right hand of the report.  If it has the IAT code you are good to go.  If it has the PPD code your payment will be rejected effective 1 Apr 19.

 

If the detailed reported shows a "SEC code of PPD" that means it was not transmitted in the required IAT format and it will also not have detailed info on the sender and receiver such as not having your in-Thailand address. 

 

If it's not in the IAT format the letter states you must contact the govt agency making the payment to get your payment transmitted in IAT format otherwise come 1 Apr 19 the payment will be rejected. 

 

Once again IAT stands for "International ACH Transaction".... and PPD stands for "Prearranged Payment & Deposit" which some people also refer to as Domestic ACH format used for transmitting funds to U.S. banks when the funds are to stay in the U.S....not be relayed on to another country.  IAT format is a more detailed payment transmission format; PPD format is an abbreviated payment transaction format.   "And remember, it's the U.S. Treasury driving this IAT requirement; Bangkok Bank is just complying with the U.S. govt requirement.   And Bangkok Bank can not change to the correct format; only the U.S govt agency making the payment can do that."

 

From looking at a social security payment made to a family member it's being rec'd in PPD format' not IAT which is in sync with what Bangkok Bank "New York" branch told me about a month ago.    I was also shown a variety of redacted reports made to other folks (i.e., redacted of any any personal info....pretty much just whether IAT or PPD format was used like the correct SEC of IAT).    One report was a payment from OPM (civil service retirement)...it was in IAT format.  One payment from DFAS (mil retirement)...it was "not" in IAT format but in PPD format.  One report from VA...it was not in IAT format but in PPD format.  One report for SSA...it was in IAT format.  Yes, some folks SSA payments are arriving in IAT format and others are not.

 

The section already has a preliminary list of folks in Thailand receiving U.S. govt payments and whether they are in IAT format or not.   And number of names on the preliminary list is in the "thousands" considering all the various folks in Thailand receiving social security, military retirement, civil service, VA, etc., type payments. 

 

I know if a person contacts Bangkok Bank "New York" they may be told "all" social security payments are already in IAT format...apparently that is their scripted response now...but it's an inaccurate answer and they know it.  However, when I contacted them around a month ago they didn't tell me that...they said around 70% of Social Security payments are in IAT format but my family member payment was not one of them.  How accurate that 70% estimate was I don't know...it might have been close....I might have been a wild guess.  And that estimate was for social security payments only; not other types of U.S. govt payments.   But I do know after my visit to Bangkok Bank today I know there are thousands receiving U.S. govt payments that will be in for a surprise come 1 Apr 19.

 

Bangkok Bank 1 Oct 18 Letter 

Bkk Bk 1Oct18 memo.pdf

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rhys]

...something to look forward to in a few months..

[marcusarelus]

Just got it today.  I added sms to my direct deposit account and got notified both the amount in dollars and Thai baht.  Works fine.  So if Bank of Bangkok NY asks what is amount in dollars for identification purposes. 

[Pib]

Keep in mind the dollar amount reflected in the SMS is the amount "after deduction" of the NY branch fee. You must add back in the fee amount to know the original amount.

[FaFaHead]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

Keep in mind the dollar amount reflected in the SMS is the amount "after deduction" of the NY branch fee. You must add back in the fee amount to know the original amount.

 

16 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Just got it today.  I added sms to my direct deposit account and got notified both the amount in dollars and Thai baht.  Works fine.  So if Bank of Bangkok NY asks what is amount in dollars for identification purposes. 

How much was the fee?

[marcusarelus]

17 hours ago, Pib said:

Keep in mind the dollar amount reflected in the SMS is the amount "after deduction" of the NY branch fee. You must add back in the fee amount to know the original amount.

How would I find that?

[lopburi3]

The SMS tells you how much was transferred and the baht fee charged as (actual ACH transfer received yesterday):

Quote

...transferred THB95,798.70 (USD2,990.00@32.12 - THB240.10) from...

As I sent $3,000.00 there was a $10 fee at BBL New York and then a Baht 240.10 fee here in Bangkok.

Edited October 2, 2018 by lopburi3